SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Oh Bigger!

Exploding back crack made me think of explosive diarrhea.

and I am sitting here laughing

We have ancient Greek pottery and scuplture depicting sex - pornography - on it. SOme of the world's greatest writing is pornographic. If you want to read some porn that requires enslavement of women, take a look at the latest translation of Golden Lotus (Jin Ping Mei) - some of the porn is not arousing in the West, but it sure is in traditional China). Tantric temples are tourist attractions. Even without the web, porn is easily accessible. But ...

Elle2,

Right now, you're recovering from a recent catastrophe that is due in part on porn. As you gain perspective, have confidence that you'll figure out what to do about porn in the future.

You're entitled to set your boundaries. When meeting men in the future, have some confidence that you'll bring up porn in a way that works for you.

That's not being a pollyanna. As time goes on you will change. You can't predict how you'll change, but change is inevitable. Porn is important to. My bet is that you'll figure out how to handle it one way or another.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:25 PM, Friday, July 22nd]

The vast majority of all work is done by people that would rather not be there. Or do you think Amazon warehouse associates love their jobs and truckers are on stimulants because that's what they want to do?

The vast majority of all work is done by people that would rather not be there. Or do you think Amazon warehouse associates love their jobs and truckers are on stimulants because that's what they want to do?

Wow.

The vast majority of all work is done by people that would rather not be there. Or do you think Amazon warehouse associates love their jobs and truckers are on stimulants because that's what they want to do?

Sorry I hope I’m reading this wrong: are you comparing women being simultaneously penetrated in all possible orifices by strangers (whilst not liking it but pretending to do so for the benefit of men arousal) with Amazon warehouse workers?? You truly think that’s comparable?

[This message edited by Luna10 at 5:48 PM, Friday, July 22nd]

Sisoon – I’m describing the vast, immense difference between erotica or even pornography that is static (as in verbal, written or even carved in marble) versus modern pornography that is direct in-your-face (literally…), stark white digital recording porn. We older gentlemen probably remember how Playboy got raunchy when one got a glimpse of pubic hair, to the time it became tame compared to Hustler with it’s more explicit photos. I don’t think they publish Hustler anymore – photo’s can’t compete with what’s happening online.

By coincidence I heard on a podcast today (discussing the rise in teenage sports-betting) that the porn industry has a higher turnover than the whole sports-industry. We know the names of dozens of sports-heroes, and know that this one got a million dollar contract and bonuses and all that. We might know the name of a few of the more famous porn-stars, but we don’t see them on the red carpet (the munch-carpet?) or hear of their vast wealth. It’s a predatory industry and those making money out of itare not the preformers. Why pay someone thousands of dollars or spend money on a set when all you need is a hotel-room and a young runaway that can convincingly claim to be 18?

I’m not being a prude. If I were to allow myself, I could probably get some kick out of watching porn. Just like I’m fairly certain I would enjoy snorting coke or shooting morphine. As I said before: if there was an acceptable standard that the industry would go by, fine. While there isn’t then I refuse to condone or take part in it.

I think that the Amazon worker would feel even less career enjoyment with someone sticking an object up his ass and displaying it to the whole internet-accessible public.

My views about porn have changed dramatically over the past 20 years. In the United States, we have an epidemic of teenagers who are addicted to pornography and suffering sexual dysfunction at younger and younger ages.

Pornography has gotten more extreme and violent; consequently, what people expect from sex and relationships has as well. Porn sites also feature videos of women that have been trafficked or uploaded without their consent. John Douglas, the famous FBI criminal profiler, also notes in his books that the nature of sex crimes became more extreme and brutal along with pornography over the course of his decades-long career.

And we all know the terrible effects of pornography as people turn away from intimacy in their marriage toward "quick fixes" of sexual release through pornography.

Lastly, since someone mentioned "50 Shades of Grey," the fact that a book about an victim of sexual abuse-turned-obsessive stalker who takes control of every aspect of young woman's life and acts out his most violent tendencies upon her became a bestseller and hit movie just goes to show how toxic and pervasive the porn industry's effect on culture has been.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 6:28 PM, Friday, July 22nd]

The vast majority of all work is done by people that would rather not be there. Or do you think Amazon warehouse associates love their jobs and truckers are on stimulants because that's what they want to do?

Jfc.

Ok..first..my husband is a truck driver. He's not on stimulants. Truckers are only legally allowed to drive a certain amount of hours, then they have to stop for 10 hours, before they can drive their truck again. There is a device inside their trucks,that monitor this.

Second..

are you comparing women being simultaneously penetrated in all possible orifices by strangers (whilst not liking it but pretending to do so for the benefit of men arousal) with Amazon warehouse workers??

It seems that way.

You continue to ferociously defend your porn. On a thread of a woman who has been scarred by a man who used porn,and no longer finds porn acceptable in her future relationships. Rather than respect that,you continue to go on and on about your love of porn, and why she is wrong to feel that way. You may not have said those exact words, but that's exactly what you are saying. We get it. You like jacking off to women on a screen. Cool. If your wife is ok with that, cool. You've made your point. We all get it.

OP, regardless of some men's love of porn, it's ok to not allow that to shade your future relationships. It really is.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:40 PM, Friday, July 22nd]

The argument that "if you say no porn up front, some men are going to lie to you" is...weird. People will and do lie to us about all kind of things that we might put up front as boundaries. Active alcoholics are going to lie and say they don't drink that much; people who are addicted to drugs are going to deny their addictions; people who are going to cheat will lie about what faithful partners they are; etc. People lie in job interviews (both interviewers and interviewees); people lie to their doctors, they lie to their lawyers, and on and on. People lie, period, and no conversation that you can have at the start of a relationship will prevent lying.

No, of course you can't screen out porn-users with a single question, since some of them will lie. That's not the point of having a boundary, though. The point of the boundary is to protect oneself. If I say up front "no porn," and then I find out my romantic partner is using porn...they understood my boundary and didn't respect it, so there's no more relationship. Boundaries make it easier to break up and move on, once we know that the person we're with doesn't respect us enough to be honest. Once you know you're with a liar, having lived that life previously, you can more quickly opt out.

OP, regardless of some men's love of porn, it's ok to not allow that to shade your future relationships. It really is.

^^^This and the famous line we have around here "Take what you want and leave the rest"

PSTI, your POV is vastly different than many(most?) Of the betrayed wives here. It's possible that it's because you have no problem sharing your husband and your boyfriend, with multiple women. You also have not reconciled with the man who cheated on you,who you were not in an open marriage with.

I say that with all due respect. What works for you, works for you. And that's fine. OP is saying porn does not work for her. She is wanting that to be respected. Just as you want people here to respect that you are in an open marriage. Imagine if someone told you that you needed to just get comfortable with monogamy,because most men prefer not to share their wives,and monogamy is personal growth.

Hellfire, I waited to respond to you because I wanted to really think about what you said.

No, it's not the same thing. It's about where you are in your process. If I was poly because of the damage my WH did, then you would absolutely be right and I would need to get comfortable with trusting people to be mono again. In that case, I'd be choosing to screen out mono men because I'd feel like I can't trust any of them not to cheat so I'd be choosing an open relationship to avoid the problem. That's not a healthy way to handle trauma (nor does it work, which is what I'm trying to illustrate here).

I saw this comment and it sums it up perfectly for me. "Make sure you are responding to the present moment and not reacting to something from your past that the current situation reminds you of."

Healing means recognizing that one person did damage to us. That doesn't mean the next person should be treated like they will do damage to us.

I will say again that OP can have whatever requirements she likes for engaging with a partner. I strongly believe that it's only ethical to have a requirement this niche right up front before she gets to know someone though- that way there is no emotional entanglement. Likewise, I tell someone I'm poly before I meet up with them to go on a date so that I don't waste their time or develop a connection with them where they might try to proceed because they're catching NRE even though they don't really want to be poly. Being upfront about her porn requirements will reduce potential dishonesty because there's no attachment yet.

I do think some people will lie though, especially since there's so much shame attached to sex in our culture. Look at all the comments here talking about deviant sex or dirty sex or the like! Absolutely, we all get to decide what we like and what we're willing to do, but that doesn't make other acts dirty or wrong in any way. When people start out with this attitude, I will say that yes, it's normal for some people to lie and feel shame or guilt for enjoying activities that others think are genuinely morally wrong. And I think this is especially pervasive among religious people for that reason.

I wish the OP well in finding what she seeks. My point is that I genuinely, honestly believe that she is more likely to end up with someone who is dishonest because of shame and cultural programming, or someone who has other sexual issues because of shame and is less likely to be able to have a healthy sexual relationship, rather than someone who is open and honest, has a healthy relationship with masturbation and porn that does not cause issues in the romantic relationship, and can go on to have a mutually fulfilling sexual partnership.

I hope that explains my position more clearly.

[This message edited by PSTI at 10:31 AM, July 23rd (Saturday)]

Look at all the comments here talking about deviant sex or dirty sex or the like! Absolutely, we all get to decide what we like and what we're willing to do, but that doesn't make other acts dirty or wrong in any way.

For real though.

Instead of arguing our own personal views regarding porn (views in which there will never be a consensus with), how about we focus on ways to help the OP in her particular situation.

Op, there is no debating your own person boundaries and standards. If porn is a problem then set that as a standard.

IMO it can be unhealthy in a committed relationship, if it’s an obsession or addiction. I think it desensitizes people to reality.

For me personally porn is too triggery, it’s like importing mind movies directly to my head. I can’t watch it. I also worry about the people involved.

My W is a personal trainer and bikini competitor. The body is a beautiful thing in a non sexual way. I see her clients progress, fellow competitors, or just someone working hard in the gym and can appreciate it. I can comment to my W about a ladies progress, muscle development or leaning out and there is no disrespect to my W. I can’t imagine being addicted to porn and trying to have the same objective view.

You can set your boundaries wherever you need them to be that's healthy for you. Furthermore IMHO you don't owe anyone any explanation or backstory for them, so long as you are setting them for YOU and not setting them to try to make someone else act a way.

The no porn boundary - will that exclude a lot of people from the dating pool? Probably. But that's not a tragic thing. Just my 0.02, but the tragic thing is going against your own boundaries and accepting things that aren't healthy for you just to be in a relationship.

How do I know that? *gestures to flaming wreckage of marriage *gestures to years of codependent sickness with my alcoholic mother *gestures to decades of emotional and mental abuse by my narcissistic father

It took me a LONG time and a lot of repeat thumps upside my thick head from the universe to teach me that me setting boundaries for myself is HEALTHY. That setting those and sticking to them is me acting in my own best interests. That me figuring out what I want and need from my relationships and clearly communicating those things is the only way I have found to have relationships that feel reciprocal and nurturing instead of one-sided. Learning to set solid healthy boundaries is hard and I am still a work in progress, but I can tell you for me that I have never once regretted setting one even if the end outcome wasn't what I wanted. In those sort of situations where I felt drained and used and exhausted by a relationship, it didn't get better until I said when.

Elle2, you have offered your WH the gift of reconciliation. The onus is on your WH to bend over backwards and do whatever he needs to do to demonstrate that he's worthy of that gift. He should eliminate anything from his viewing habits that makes you feel uncomfortable and insecure or impedes your intimacy with him. He shouldn't test your limits or argue semantics about what counts or doesn't count as porn.

I don't like porn and I don't like violence in TV and movies. Love and tenderness between real people. There is no substitute. No one should be using someone else. Why don't we regard our bodies as special?

I was never interested in racy books. My friend tried to get me to read some of her favorites.........it's like junk food, no quality. I don't enjoy being a spy on someone else's private life, imaginary or not. I want real happiness.

Pretty soon we're making excuses why all this is something we have to live with.

When we could be really happy instead living lives of great satisfaction and joy. When we see each other as objects, we're all in trouble. It's here now, the world of expendable people. More and more people hurt and sick and discarded or forgotten. We cannot tolerate anyone to be an object to be used for a whim or a convenience. There are real slaves in the porn industry. There is rape and violence. I believe it diminishes us. This cannot become ancient Rome. The research is clear. A society that lets people be expendable is on its way to ruin.

Stand strong for what you believe. You will find joy with someone who feels the same.

Bluerthanblue,

Elle isn’t asking about her WH. That ship has sailed and she know it. She was asking about future relationships.

HFSCC: Elle2 is still married and is attempting to R, so at the moment, her problem is with her husband, not with a hypothetical man in the future. If she doesn't want porn to be a part of the marriage that they are attempting to rebuild, then he needs to be willing to sacrifice it for her. She shouldn't resign herself to accepting it because she feels she has no choice.

Elle2: Men who don't view porn are not mythical creatures. My ex-husband (the cheater) was disgusted by porn and could barely get through watching an HBO show with me. We obviously had many issues in our relationship, but fortunately, that wasn't one of them. My current husband doesn't like it and finds it morally reprehensible.

Naturally, tons of people will come along and say it's naive to believe that some men aren't looking at some variation of porn behind their partners' backs, but that is pure projection. This attitude is also meant to mock and shame women into silently accepting porn habits.

When I started dating again, I was able to filter out porn users simply by asking: "What kind of porn are you into?" I found that men would tell me pretty much anything I wanted to know-- about porn, drug use, past cheating, etc-- as long as I asked them open-ended questions in a curious and completely nonjudgmental tone and controlled my reactions to anything they said.