SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yeah, after being married to someone for whom porn was/is a "gateway drug" to worse and worse sexual acting out, I...am just planning to never have a romantic/sexual relationship with a man again. I don't have time or interest or energy to deal with any man's dysfunction anymore, or to try to compete with bad habits and worse boundaries.

It's different with an alcohol or drug addiction because there are usually signs that there's an issue. It's difficult to hide. But it's comparatively very easy to hide porn/sex addiction, AND porn/sex addiction in my partner puts me at direct risk of physical and financial harm.

Maybe I'll feel differently after I'm officially divorced, but after two marriages in which porn was a serious problem, currently I have zero interest in dealing with any man who's deeply into it. Assuming I ever wanted to deal with a man again.

OP said she is "totally not ok with it." Yet,some of you are trying to tell her she either needs to be,or should be, and giving your opinion why it should be ok with her.

OP, again, if it's a NO for you,that's ok. No one here has the right to try to tell you to get comfortable, with someone that makes you uncomfortable.

It is not a problem for everyone, but it's much more of a problem now than it has ever been before (availability, no doubt).

I have several younger friends who have married in the last five years or so, and all of them feel that their now husbands learned habits or beliefs about sex (frequency, variety, women's likes, etc.) that are inaccurate at best and harmful at worst. They cannot really explain why these ideas didn't pose a problem while dating, but they guess it's because just being together was exciting enough. Since marriage they have settled into more normal marital habits and KABOOM! They were not on the same page as their husbands.

The second most common habit or problem they are telling me is that their husbands and boyfriends struggle to get off during intercourse and often need to finish themselves off. This is also a huge problem and causes hurt feelings and arguments.

It's been a massive issue in my marriage and definitely crossed into addiction with my H. After hearing from my friends and talking with many people irl, both married and single, I would simply expect porn and its effects to pose a problem in any future relationship (if I were to have one). That's crazy, right? But it seems to be that problematic for so many people...in one way or another. If I ended up to be wrong, I'd be pleasantly surprised. But to prepare myself, I would just assume it was going to cause issues.

I've even been trying to talk to my two young adult sons.

I find porn use akin to alcohol, drugs, gambling, crappy fast food or sugar and those types of things--addictive and harmful unless you are really careful! Idk. That's what I'm hearing from so many women these days. I wish I had any suggestions for navigating it. I guess just understanding the potential dangers? It seems so harmless to most men (and lots of women), but it can definitely change people.

Videogames don't make me violent. Porn doesn't make me cheat.

The key word here being "ME". (you)

I had a very "religious " upbringing, as has been referenced.

My H had, let’s just say, a strong interest in porn. His infidelity involved a sex worker. I leave you to your belief of the relationship between those statements.

I have had reason, as a BS, and a mother of 3 boys (no sexist intentions) to do more than a little investigating the quote above. And as a result, I believe it is misleading.

Does every person who watches violent video games become violent. NO.

Does every person who watches porn, cheat? NO.

Does participating in those activities greatly increase the odds of those behaviors (violence/cheating)?

Absolutely.

Not says me. Says statistics. Says research/studies.

Personally, I despise pornography. I despise prostitution. The act. Not the person. I am repulsed by the interest in those activities. The interest/participation. Not the people.

For me personally, it is "less than" what I’m interested in.

I love sex. Love it. But I love it in a certain setting. Where there is an emotional connection, a closeness, a relationship involving all kinds of intimacy. Otherwise, for me, it is "less than" behavior.

It is because of how incredibly special sex is to me. that pornography is a poor substitute. I want the real deal.

Now, each person has their own feelings about this.

I agree that each person chooses what floats their boat. And each person gets to choose if they want to have an intimate relationship with other individuals who choose to participate in activities that are an affront to them.

To the original poster:

It can make you crazy to try to figure out why people choose behaviors that you reject. And this includes lying/cheating. (Includes, not equates.)

And it will ABSOLUTELY drive you crazy to try to change them.

It doesn’t necessarily mean they are bad, or wrong, but it can certainly mean that you decide to reject a relationship with them, if you so choose.

The really hard part is determining if it is a dealbreaker for you.

We each have our breaking points, and I personally feel that being true to those breaking points is helpful in determining whether a relationship will end, or go on.

I wish you strength and discernment…and happiness.

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 4:02 AM, Thursday, July 21st]

Sorry, dup post.

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 4:00 AM, Thursday, July 21st]

Don't get involved with men who use porn. Have that talk before getting romantic. When you ask if they use porn, and if they say yes, then respectfully end things. Having used it many years ago but not having used it for many years might be a grey area for you to consider, as if it hasn't been for years he is likely comfortable not using it. Backsliding is always possible, though, so that's a tough call.

You've already had some responses telling you to accept porn, that almost all men use it (no evidence backing that, just their assumptions). Those people are trying to pressure you into accepting sexual behavior in your relationship that you aren't comfortable with. That is wrong.

Don't compromise your wishes and values by settling for a person who uses porn, when it is understandably very problematic for you. I've known people whose marriages were damaged by it, and the men I've been involved with who've used it were not good partners.

[This message edited by morningglory at 4:12 AM, Thursday, July 21st]

I know that most of the time, people who try to set limits like this are doing it because they have had partners damage them in the past. I would respectfully suggest that it's important to heal ourselves and not expect new partners to modify their behaviour to deal with our damage. They were not the ones who hurt us and shouldn't be treated like they were.

It's wrong to set limits? Boundaries are gold. They are what keep people safe in relationships. Declining to accept porn in her life is no different from declining to accept infidelity. Experience has shown her how harmful porn can be, just like experience has shown all of us how harmful infidelity can be.

Our daughter is 23. I remind Cheater that she’s about the age of the actresses in the porn he was watching. How would he feel if some creep was watching our baby having sex?

He stopped

Many romance novels actually do meet the dictionary definition of pornography.

A couple years ago I discovered fan fiction for my favorite show/book series. Some of it was erotic. This led me to read some erotic romance novels. Having been raised in a very strict religious tradition I came to marriage very inhibited sexually. That continued throughout our marriage. It was my exposure to what I would call written pornography that has allowed me to open up sexually in a way I never thought possible.

After more than 25 years of marriage I am finally an uninhibited, passionate, sexual being. My husband and I are having so much fun. Sex multiple times a day, all over the house. And I have to thank written pornography for this.

Like many of you I find visual pornography tawdry and gross. I have become more tolerant of it because of my own experience and understanding that people are different. And having sons.

Couples need to be honest with each other about what they are doing. My husband shares with me the details of his porn use so that there are no secrets between us.

Elle - Like everyone says, you need to set boundaries you are comfortable with. I am not trying to say that porn use is ok. I am just sharing my own experience.

Thank you for all of the responses! It’s been a great conversation I think and has raised a lot of good questions and issues. One, I did mean for future relationships. I realize that I may feel differently about it later. I will date someone who can have A few drinks but not and alcoholic, but as someone pointed out. It’s much easier to hide a porn addiction. So I realize that just asking would make things difficult lol. For us, me and my current Ws, porn was a hard stop because of the issues it caused. And to hear that while he was supposed to be "working on his shit" at his new fancy house while I was home with the kids all day every day, he watching porn, it was a huge slap in the face. Especially considering that I had been begging him to listen to a podcast that I thought would help us. He sad he never had time. When I asked him why porn he would say "bc I don’t meet his needs" which was also a hard slap because I had been making huge strides to work on our intimacy. Honestly way before I was ready we started having sex because I knew it was important to him. It was one of the things he needed. So we were having a significant amount of sex (for us. 2+- times w week. And he only was with me 2-3 nights a week)and he said it wasn’t enough. Red flag. I asked him "why can’t you close your eyes and imagine it" he said it didn’t work anymore. Red flag. The sex that he wanted and got REALLY upset over not getting was the inconvenient kind. The kind where he was laying in bed still (after I’d been up with the kids for an hour or more so if breakfast etc) and I’d walk i the bedroom and ask him to get up and help and he’d want a blow job first while the kids are eating breakfast (keep in mind we have a newly 2 yo and an 8yo with autism so there’s really not A lot of time). Or he would want to sneak off and have sex while my mom was over and the kids were distracted by her. And don’t get me wrong, the occasional tryst can be fun, but these are almost every day. Or he would want me to just grab his penis is while we are in the kitchen. Or he would pull my shirt back so he can see my boobs in public (while he thinks no one can see) or he’d grab my butt in a way that felt so dirty and not loving in front of the kids. All red flags. It always felt dirty. Like I was a piece of meat to him. I’d tell him All the time and he’d just say you are my wife. I’d say yeah but it’s my body and you make me feel like like a piece of meat. It definitely gave him unrealistic expectations.
And I don’t think you can compare porn and prostitution and only fans etc. porn and prostitution are a different world that online web stuff. There was a Netflix documentary called "hot girls only" and it was about the porn industry and it was eye opening. Girls do it to make money and get caught up in it bc they can’t get out. It was a really good watch if it’s still available. There will always be girls that enjoy it but it’s the minority. I have been friends with and been related to strippers and just the shit I hear from them is sad.

When I asked him why porn he would say "bc I don’t meet his needs"...

More likely because you weren't porn his needs couldn't be met.

You're not the first woman either who I've heard say their porn-using husband treats them "like meat" sexually. I think it causes more desensitization and emotional disconnection than we might think on first blush.

It always felt dirty. Like I was a piece of meat to him. I’d tell him All the time and he’d just say you are my wife. I’d say yeah but it’s my body and you make me feel like like a piece of meat. It definitely gave him unrealistic expectations.

This is exactly the way I felt for a long time at the height of my H's sexual addiction. And this is also what my younger friends are describing in their Ms--the porn seems to have turned us into objects to grab, slap, pose, and ejaculate on. It didn't feel like a "we," like we were participating together. Instead it felt like I was being acted upon and used, and if I complained, I was just seen as sexually repressed. There is nothing loving about this type of sexual behavior. I hated it, and it made me hate him.

I could be wrong, but isn't this pretty much the type of sex that all porn depicts and normalizes?

When I asked him why porn he would say "bc I don’t meet his WANTS"...

Not trying to defend porn here, but based on your story, Elle, was porn really an issue for him, or was he just an asshole who does what he wants? He didn't have sexual needs.....he had sexual wants.

His treatment of you sexually AND his 100% disregard for your feelings point to issues that go much deeper than his porn usage. If you ask yourself how many times during your marriage that he wanted something that you did not, did he take your opinion/feelings into consideration....or did he just do what he wanted?

I find the gender-distinction that all men use porn and women don’t expressed on this thread interesting. Especially seeing as we have one man that has contributed that he doesn’t use porn, and one woman that admits she does.

I will admit that there are levels of porn produced, and possibly some of the newer technical methods of delivering porn are "safer", but I still have my doubts that a high-enough ration of participants is doing so with full acceptance and fulfilment. I do realize it’s an easy way to make money, but if you think it’s "OK" and "safe" – would you want your 19-year-old son or daughter preforming sex online behind the safety of OnlyFans to pay for college?

Would you want your son or daughter to find a sugardaddy/mom and for occasional BJ’s get their rent paid? Imagine what a cute 20-year-old man can earn doing gay-porn irrespective of his own sexuality. Not to mention if he found a sugar-daddy (basically the same thing, only not on camera). After all – it’s "only" a job and not done for enjoyment. Just like I suspect the young girls with two or more men penetrating them aren’t doing it for enjoyment…

When you meet your friends and you are talking about your kids, after hearing that Tod’s son is managing a McDonalds on weekends to pay for college, and that his daughter is tutoring would you share that Jane is raking in the money masturbating on OnlyFans and that Joe stands in as a cock-double?

If we take an unemotional or skip morals stance… Imagine being in your early twenties with no student-debt and maybe even some savings… Financially going on your knees twice a week and sucking some guy off (be it on recording or in a hotel room) is a great investment that can get you years ahead financially. Yet we don’t have any Dragons in Dragons Den that started life as porn-stars or hookers…

If you don’t want this for your kids… do you want other peoples kids to provide you with these kicks?

It's not that I don’t find porn titillating, it’s just that my morals tell me that by participating by using it I’m wrong. I’m feeding the beast.

If there were some recognized authorities that could confirm the participants are aware of what’s going on and aware of the consequences, the decisions they are making, the approval of the acts committed, the safety of the environment… I would be OK with that. Would probably not use it but wouldn’t feel so strongly against it. As is I doubt that 18-year-old girl doing a "First Audition" type porn recording in a room with 3-5 crew and 2-3 rampant men and ends up looking like a plasterers radio is really so much into it.

[This message edited by Bigger at 11:42 AM, Thursday, July 21st]

Some are equating porn to romance novels,and at the same time,telling us that all men look at porn.

It may surprise you to know that not all women read romance novels. I don't. I was given one,many years ago. I read a few pages,and threw it away. It was so cheesy. I've always preferred mystery novels.

By and large, men are visual creatures, while women are more emotional. So, I'm curious. How would you react if your partner said steamy romance novels were off the table? So no 50 shades. And no Outlander... that's a steamy one, right?

The writing in 50 Shades was so execrable that I couldn't keep reading long enough to get to the explicit sections.

Never read 50 Shades, never saw the movie, don't read romance novels.

I do want to say that there is a lot of research coming out about the damaging impact of porn on the habits, perceptions, and expectations of men. I am not saying all men have damaged habits, perceptions, and expectations. But the stats are showing that the easy availability and the types of sexual content are changing people. And not for the better unfortunately.

Like any other substances and habits that have the potential for excess and abuse, I'm not sure what we can do. And to Elle2's question, I don't know how you guard against it becoming a problem. Just like infidelity, I'm not sure you can. Can you? Are there red flags?

The only red flag I saw was that my husband used a reward system in life. He had an, "I did this so I deserve..." mentality that lead to lots of justifying of shitty choices. That is very avoidant and addictive thinking. You should draw better boundaries or develop healthier coping than to reward yourself with bad habits like sex, alcohol, gambling, excessive tv, etc. Porn's addictive quality is in its reward and escapism from life which leads to feelings of entitlement and need. "I deserve this." Or "I need this."

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:09 PM, Thursday, July 21st]

I think one of the worst things about infidelity is the damage it does to a BS's view on sex. It's like rape in that way. Sex is a wonderful thing, but infidelity makes it dirty and weaponizes it. I have always appreciated porn and "naughty" books and I think I've always had a healthy way of using those things, so it didn't occur to me that my XWH didn't. I have lived the damage that porn in the wrong hands can do to a marriage. My XWH's actions and issues nearly took my enjoyment of those things away from me. I have a pretty high sex drive, but infidelity wrecked that for a while too. Infidelity is a crime against sex. It poisons it for many of us. I completely understand anyone who comes out of this not wanting a partner who watches porn. That's a fair boundary to have. I understand the different points of view on it. I find myself in the weird spot of being someone who likes porn and yet would be eyeing a future partner who watches it very closely for negative impacts of it. As with alcohol, some people really just cannot handle it.

As far as I can tell no one here has actually suggested all men use porn or all women read romance novels.

I very carefully said that these are reflections of general trends that men are more visually aroused and women are more emotionally aroused.

Don't get involved with men who use porn. Have that talk before getting romantic. When you ask if they use porn, and if they say yes, then respectfully end things. Having used it many years ago but not having used it for many years might be a grey area for you to consider, as if it hasn't been for years he is likely comfortable not using it. Backsliding is always possible, though, so that's a tough call.

You've already had some responses telling you to accept porn, that almost all men use it (no evidence backing that, just their assumptions). Those people are trying to pressure you into accepting sexual behavior in your relationship that you aren't comfortable with. That is wrong.

You have completely missed my point. It is not that she has to tolerate porn use. It's that if she filters men on porn use answering that question, I believe based on the approximate statistics you can google (90+% of men use porn) and that you have certainly read on infidelity (25% of men cheat, and therefore lie a lot). You are much more likely to find a liar than someone that genuinely doesn't watch porn when they say no.

If you didn't follow the math it works like this:

People that answer the question no are 10% of the population telling the truth and 25% of the remainder that are liars so 25%*90%=22.5%

So 22.5%/10% is the "worse than 2 to 1" odds I was talking about.

If *honesty* is more important to you than *porn use* asking about *porn use* is more likely to find you getting a *liar* when you take out the ones that say "no".

She is free, as are you, to go out and roll that loaded die, just don't be surprised when you start to think the vast majority of men are lying pigs just trying to get in your pants.