SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

OP said she is "totally not ok with it." Yet,some of you are trying to tell her she either needs to be,or should be, and giving your opinion why it should be ok with her.

OP, again, if it's a NO for you,that's ok. No one here has the right to try to tell you to get comfortable, with someone that makes you uncomfortable.

Hellfire, I'm not telling her she has to get comfortable with it, if you mean me. I'm merely pointing out that having a hard limit such as this is likely to cause problems- just different ones.

That being said, there is such a thing as personal growth and healing. Part of being a better version of ourselves is evaluation the positions we hold and checking if they are in fact working for us/being beneficial, or if trying to be comfortable is in fact limiting our future happiness. Growth and healing occur outside the comfort zone.

He sad he never had time. When I asked him why porn he would say "bc I don’t meet his needs"

Yep mine used porn this way as well!

and he’d want a blow job first while the kids are eating breakfast (keep in mind we have a newly 2 yo and an 8yo with autism so there’s really not A lot of time). Or he would want to sneak off and have sex while my mom was over and the kids were distracted by her.

And ^^^ this is just gross. One time we were on vacation with my parents and were driving and he said "Pssst" from the back seat and whipped his penis out. I was mortified. This while in the car with our 2 year old and my parents. There is some serious mental problems with this type of behavior.

Or he would want me to just grab his penis is while we are in the kitchen. Or he would pull my shirt back so he can see my boobs in public (while he thinks no one can see) or he’d grab my butt in a way that felt so dirty and not loving in front of the kids. All red flags. It always felt dirty. Like I was a piece of meat to him. I’d tell him All the time and he’d just say you are my wife. I’d say yeah but it’s my body and you make me feel like like a piece of meat. It definitely gave him unrealistic expectations.

Word for word how it was with my sex addicted, porn star sex xWS. I hated being pawed at like that with no lead up just grabbing like it was his

I believe my ex watched so much porn that it caused him to not being able to climax without raunchiness in the sex. It was NEVER passionate or emotional. His fetishes became worse and worse to the point he stared exploiting me for sex. I hope I never have to experience this again. I don't mind if someone wants to watch porn once in a while but to have to NEED to do that multiple times a day and then have sex like porn... no thanks!

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 5:12 PM, Thursday, July 21st]

It's wrong to set limits? Boundaries are gold. They are what keep people safe in relationships. Declining to accept porn in her life is no different from declining to accept infidelity. Experience has shown her how harmful porn can be, just like experience has shown all of us how harmful infidelity can be.

Frankly, morningglory, I see it as attempting to control another person in a way to feel safer, when life doesn't hand out guarantees. I think the whole concept of trying to prevent specific behaviour from happening again in a different person is a sign of unfinished healing.

It's not wrong to have boundaries, but it's wrong to impose rules on another adult. Boundaries are for oneself, not for others.

If I'd been in two car accidents with different partners, would experience have shown me that cars are wrong? The car is just the "vehicle" (sorry couldn't resist) for the problem, just like the porn or the alcohol or whatever else is the vehicle for a flaw within the person.

Porn /= infidelity.

Again- OP can decide what works for her. But I suspect she's far more likely to wind up with someone who uses porn and has serious shame issues about it/lies, rather than someone who never looks at it. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to set up a relationship with a potential honesty issue upfront. Hence me saying, she should basically have it on her dating profile so that people know immediately it's a dealbreaker for her, before they put in any time or emotional investment.

For older folks like me, we remember a world before the internet, where having a porn fetish was pretty much limited to magazines, stag movies, and later, the back rooms of video stores. What we're being asked in societal terms is to tolerate widespread, sometimes daily porn use and a twisted view of what sex ought to be. This isn't just the two-dimensional visual kind of porn either, but more like a three-dimensional, interactive porn where every kind of nasty perversion is literally right at your fingertips. You could say that from the times of cavemen drawing stick figures on cave walls, chances are good some of them will be fucking, but the porn that we've seen since the onset of the internet is different. It's pervasive, anonymous, and designed to be as shocking as possible in order to compete. It's a multi-billion-dollar industry. And we're being asked to treat it as NORMAL. It's not. This is only a three decades-old phenomenon. There's no telling what the long-term social effects of internet pornography will be, but it doesn't look good.

Personally, I don't tolerate it anymore. There's nothing wrong with you, OP. This is NOT something that you have to get comfortable with or that you should expect to have in your life if you want a future partner. It's perfectly okay for you to have boundaries around this issue, and honestly, I do NOT believe that your boundaries will limit your choices.

How would you react if your partner said steamy romance novels were off the table? So no 50 shades.

I’d say thank God for that! I’d actually be over the moon. Worst book in the history of literature. Yes I finished reading it because I wanted to know what the hype is about. Seriously, any woman that found 50 Shades romantic or exciting and thinks that’s a good book needs to read more.

Seriously now: personally I read romance books only on holiday out of boredom. Since dday though I cannot stand romance novels as I feel it is the same deceiving story of happily ever after without any reflection to real life.

On porn: I think everyone has a right to establish boundaries.

I actually have one such boundary on alcohol, seeing that it was mentioned in this thread, where I understand the damage it does due to first hand experience (two loved ones died of alcoholism) and I told my WH when we’ve met that I am not the woman for him if he’s a drinker. I watched his relationship with alcohol quite closely once we became serious. He drinks a glass of wine here and there (as do I) but does not get drunk ever.

Now everyone could have told me I’m exaggerating, that getting drunk or merry here and there doesn’t mean they’re an alcoholic and so on. I know that. Bottom line I do not tolerate drunk people, I do not believe alcohol consumption is essential hence anyone who doesn’t like my boundary can get out of my life.

I don’t care most men use porn, or the belief is that most men use it, if there was more education around the abuse in the porn industry perhaps less would be willing to do so, OP you don’t need to drop your standards to find “price charming”.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 6:28 PM, Thursday, July 21st]

a twisted view of what sex ought to be.

Who decides what sex ought to be? And whether or not what turns someone on is "twisted"?

Just because something "turns someone on" doesn't mean it's a good or worthwhile thing. There are social ramifications and we're seeing them. IMHO, it's a form of denial to say we're not.

Who decides what sex ought to be? And whether or not what turns someone on is "twisted"?

I get the right to determine that in my relationships and will enforce boundaries and leave accordingly.

PSTI, your POV is vastly different than many(most?) Of the betrayed wives here. It's possible that it's because you have no problem sharing your husband and your boyfriend, with multiple women. You also have not reconciled with the man who cheated on you,who you were not in an open marriage with.

I say that with all due respect. What works for you, works for you. And that's fine. OP is saying porn does not work for her. She is wanting that to be respected. Just as you want people here to respect that you are in an open marriage. Imagine if someone told you that you needed to just get comfortable with monogamy,because most men prefer not to share their wives,and monogamy is personal growth.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:52 PM, Thursday, July 21st]

So far, I've only mentioned preferences. Perhaps I should speak a little on the negatives of porn.

It can create an unrealistic expectation for what sex is. I agree with this, porn is fantasy sex. For those watching porn prior to any sexual experience, it is screwing with expectations. I grew up right on the cusp and internet porn as it is today wasn't the same. We had to wait ten minutes for topless jpegs of Pamela Anderson to load over a 14.4kbp modem. So videos were still stuck to VHS/softcore Cinemax in my case. I still think people can understand porn is a fantasy and realign their real life expectations in a healthy way even if they come in with poor expectations. I think if you have sexual experience and think your sex should be more porn-like, you are delusional.

I understand that pornography and sex work in general have negatives associated with them. That said, like other industries I use, for example the meat industry, have proven harms. It just doesn't stop me from making peace with those harms to get my benefits. Anyone living anything less than a minimum negative impact life (monk like) is drawing an arbitrary line somewhere. It's a difference of degrees. I don't think educating people on the harms would generate much of a reduction in porn use. The explosion of OnlyFans also tends to indicate a massive voluntary engagement. Heck, one could argue paying for a nice, curated OnlyFans that is clearly voluntary is a less harmful consumption than watching free stuff on PornHub....

Nothing in modern society is "normal". There is a thread about monogamy not being "normal" or "natural". We are still behind agriculture evolutionarily causing massive health issues (obesity and diabetes) due to our food supply system not being what humans evolved to do: chasing an animal to death or gathering dispersed wild edible plants. It's not normal to send messages over the internet to strangers impacted by a breach of a contract on fidelity that likely didn't exist for the majority of human evolutionary history. So the question goes back to whether or not it is ethical within a monogamous relationship.

Which I think comes to the agreement between the individuals that is usually based around something like, "As long as it isn't interactive" or "as long as you don't pay for it" or "Let me know if you are gonna watch porn and have a wank" or "Ask me if I'm horny before you do" or "no porn". The *problem* that I have stated with an outright "no porn" boundary is the same I have described before and that PTSI agrees with at least. You are more likely to just screen in a liar, than to screen out a porn user, making it a tough boundary to actually ensure is being followed.

Unlike alcohol or drug use that is harder to mask, porn is free and takes a few minutes to consume in private with no clear evidence it has occurred. This increases the achievability for prolonged deceit on the issue. I'm not asking that anyone accept that porn use is "normal" or "acceptable", I'm telling you that setting boundaries contrary to common practice (normal or acceptable or not) is likely going to have a huge unintended consequence where instead of filtering for the minority you are looking for (non-porn users), you are filtering for a minority you aren't looking for (liars).

I recognize that porn can be a problem and particularly as an addiction. I hate to bring videogames back into the argument again, but they can also be a problem/addiction. Social media can be a problem/addiction (I don't use social media myself not because I was ever addicted but because I think it has more negative impacts in my life than positive impacts). This is where having a good understanding of the difference between fantasy and reality is important. Porn, videogames, and social media are all fantasies. They are intentionally produced for arousal, entertainment, and engagement. They aren't a "natural" real life interaction and shouldn't be something you use to shape your perception of how things should be in reality.

You seriously just compared the exploitation of women,and an industry full of sexual harassment and abuse..with the meat industry?

Honestly, I was shocked to read that. But, it just makes the point that those who watch porn,a lot,or over a long period of time,stop thinking of these women as actual human beings.

It just doesn't stop me from making peace with those harms to get my benefits.

At least you're honest.

Ok. All that aside.

Again..OP has made it clear she is NOT OK WITH PORN IN HER RELATIONSHIP. And some continue to try to tell her that's wrong,unfair,and will only get her a man who lies to her.

She didn't ask how to get comfortable with porn. She didn't ask to be talked into something she is opposed to.

As you have read,OP, there are men who do not look at porn. A few BWs have said our husbands no longer do,as we have told them we will not be in a relationship in which we have to share our husbands with girls on a screen. Our husbands have decided we are worth giving it up for. I'm sure there are some who will say we are being lied to. Because they can't fathom giving up their porn. Which,if that works for their partner, is perfectly fine. But there are actually men out there who don't find it necessary.

Again..it is ok to have this boundary. It might mean it takes awhile longer to find a man in which you can have a relationship with. But,that's ok.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:15 PM, Thursday, July 21st]

little t/j

And no Outlander... that's a steamy one, right?

MMMM Outlander.... mmmmm

Heads up guys - you should be WAY more worried that the main character Jamie is like the absolute embodiment of the most amazing man evah (warrior, romantic, loyal, badass, good father, savior, sexy AF, gives thoughtful presents, AND knows how to hunt, farm, cook, knit, raise animals, build houses AND can deal with bees, bears, wars, horses, all while wearing a kilt for cryin out loud) than the sexy parts of Outlander. Gives me a very unrealistic set of expectations for a romantic partner
end t/j

MMMM Outlander.... mmmmm laugh

Heads up guys - you should be WAY more worried that the main character Jamie is like the absolute embodiment of the most amazing man evah (warrior, romantic, loyal, badass, good father, savior, sexy AF, gives thoughtful presents, AND knows how to hunt, farm, cook, knit, raise animals, build houses AND can deal with bees, bears, wars, horses, all while wearing a kilt for cryin out loud) than the sexy parts of Outlander. Gives me a very unrealistic set of expectations for a romantic partner laugh
end t/j

So true. A man so good, he could only have been created by a woman.

On a side note, it's just not a logical argument that romance novels and porn are the same thing. Yeah, there's graphic content, and in actuality, many readers skim through the sex scenes just because they don't advance the plot, but still.. not the same. The "romance" angle typically associates the sex with emotional connection so that sex becomes an expression of a loving relationship. Of course, there are other types of sex involved on occasion, the notorious "bodice ripper" springs to mind. In the end though, there's almost always character development so you end up with two people in love. That's not a common plot point for porn.

Hahaha, ellie I should have known you were an outlander fan!!!!

But yeah, Outlander sets WAYYY high fantasy expectations for a male lover. It also has time travel, so of you can suspend your disbelief for that, you can believe there is such a "dreamy Jamie" out there😆

I think porn is unhealthy too. It separates the human person, their soul and personality, from their body. Getting too comfortable with that can numb you to the sould personality and eventually BODY of your partner. It kills your sex drive for a real life woman/man in your care.

Porn inside a relationship? I dont know. We watched how to build a sex room which does get... instructional together and had a lot of fun discussing various things we would be interested in. Cant make a call on that for everyone, but I can say that for me personally, I find porn disgusting.

Its funny, those bashing romance novels have a point too. They basically promise there is a man out there whose emotions run just as freely and vulnerably as a womans. Oh and has a ripped 6 pack too! Again, fantasy!!

As for filtering out porn users, its probably better a few dates in to be vulnerable with your pain from it. Youre going to have to get real eventually about the infidelity wrecking your first M. See if they respond with empathy and understanding. Theres your filter, right there.

I think porn is unhealthy too. It separates the human person, their soul and personality, from their body. Getting too comfortable with that can numb you to the sould personality and eventually BODY of your partner. It kills your sex drive for a real life woman/man in your care.

I have never even come close to having porn affect me that way. Yes, absolutely, it clearly does do that for some people, but that's not remotely universal.

With all due respect HellFire, a BW with a fWH that has "sworn off" porn likely has little more than a proven liar that is good at hiding porn use. But maybe you really do have what you think you have.

I haven't told Elle to get comfortable with porn. I've told her to set her expectations properly when she more-likely-than-not finds out her partner is a liar rather than a non-porn user.

Again..it is ok to have this boundary. It might mean it takes awhile longer to find a man in which you can have a relationship with. But,that's ok.

I agree 100% with this statement. It's a perfectly valid boundary, that will be hard to show is actually being followed, but eventually could pay off, so long as the right expectations are there from the outset.

Just because something "turns someone on" doesn't mean it's a good or worthwhile thing.

True….but again, no one person or segment of the population is the arbiter of what is good or worthwhile for anyone else.

I reiterate that I agree with everyone who said that the OP and everyone else has the right to set their own boundaries in a relationship and a partner.

…is evaluation the positions we hold and checking if they are in fact working for us/being beneficial, or if trying to be comfortable is in fact limiting our future happiness."

I have been trying to understand this statement, but have failed.

With no disrespect to anyone on this thread, it seems to me that any pros and cons regarding porn are simply a T/J of the original post.

This thread, IMHO, was not intended to be yet another discussion re pornography. That issue will NEVER be settled (agreed upon). Like politics. Or religion. And that’s OK.

But this thread is regarding how someone is supposed to find someone with their same thoughts/opinions/beliefs/behaviors toward a fulfilling life without porn. IMHO

I’m hoping we can help her with this.

Equating porn to romantic novels is stupid IMHO.
It’s like comparing crime-novels to ringside seats at a beheading.

A book – the written word – leaves space for imagination and is about imaginary characters. Even if based on true events, then any thoughts or emotions attributed are the writers rather than the real character. Seeing six men taking turns penetrate every orifice, man-handling and choking a tired young woman wearing a school-uniform under the title "Barely Legal does the hockey-team" doesn’t really give any leeway for imagination or fantasy.
Maybe if the title was "Guess what sport the team that the barely legal woman is into and guess what fantasy she’s fulfilling by pretending to be underage by wearing a school-uniform?" then it opens up the chance for imagination.

I think I’m taking a different stance than many on porn. For me the issue isn’t if it harms a relationship (because it can, but I can also see it can spice up a relationship). Nor is it an issue of if gives people the wrong expectations about sex (because it does, but it can also ignite or rekindle sexual awareness). I also think that if one partner uses porn despite the others demand he doesn’t isn’t a porn issue, but yet one more version of the classic power-struggle and communication issues all relationships need to deal with.

The issue is that the vast majority of porn is done by people that probably have no real wish to be there, probably regret doing it and would choose other options if they could.

Society responded some years ago to child-labor products. We demanded that large stores certified that the sneakers and cheap clothes we buy aren’t made by 10-year-old kids in some sweat-shop in Asia. We have all these Fair Trade certificates that alleviate our conscience.
If I were to open a store where you KNOW that 90% of the products are made by 14-15year old kids (the legal age for work in many developing countries) that would rather be at school, where they are physically abused by overwork to produce better quality at a faster pace, where the employer systematically looks for new kids because the older ones tire and drop quality… Would you make a purchase there? Would you proudly wear your "SlaveMaster Brand" sneakers?

To me – that’s where the porn industry is right now. I think I’m being generous with giving it even 10% as acceptable, done-by-consenting-adults-who-are-totally-aware-of-their-actions. In using porn, in going to porn-sites and generating traffic, in watching porn that reflects a strange and non-realistic version of sex… I’m supporting that industry, and I don’t want to be part of that.

From Random House Webster's College Dictionary

pornography 1. writings, photographs, movies, etc., intended to arouse sexual sexual excitement, esp. such materials considered as having little or no artistic merit. 2. the production of such materials.

Media intended to arouse sexual excitement is by definition pornography. That can include some romance novels. Just because something isn't equally offensive doesn't make it not meet the definition of pornography. So please don't call it "stupid" when people use the term pornography for a whole range of sexually arousing media.