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OIN,

Aside from what i mentioned in a prior post regarding how much "simpler" it was to rage against the AP than it was to hold the conflicting feelings of rage and love for my WS. I also think that my rage for the AP went deeper.

As a woman I have experienced and absorbed messages about the way my body should look while also being sexually objectified and sexually traumatized over my lifetime - beginning in my childhood.

I had also learned in my early pre-teen years to associate giving my body sexually to someone as a way to receive "love". My mental schema went something like: "if I give my body then I’ve given everything and they will love me."

In addition to that, I struggled very deeply to love myself for me. I struggled to find beauty in loving who I was internally - this was largely due to FOO and my mothers inability to provide a safe space for me to feel loved and accepted and embraced for my character and qualities I feel a mother should celebrate in her child.

When I was with my WS, i seem to have projected these feelings into the relationship - functioning from a place where I dimmed myself and my character to finally feel loved. Giving my body to a certain degree and giving myself sexually was a part of that. I trusted my WS with myself in a gamble to receive the love that I deeply wanted to feel from myself (and my mother in early childhood).

When my WS cheated - she granted the AP(s) a large amount of access into these very fragile parts of me. That access was of course not something I ever expected this person to have. I was exposed. My deep emotional wounds had been burst open and this AP was now a very unwelcome intruder.

I raged at the AP not only for the disrespect or complete violations she had of me and my marriage, but also for her very unwelcome and extremely violating intrusions into two of my deepest wounds. Wounds I never expected her to have access to.

In my mind/emotionally traumatized state I couldn’t handle the idea that my WS could love the AP. That was love I had fought and gambled so much of myself for…add to that the comments from my WS of comparing my body to the AP. The body I "gave for love" was now proven to be unlovable & not enough too.

My rage at the AP was from a place of not only the obvious transgressions she took against me - but also at what I believed she "took" from me and represented about my own inadequacies. She was playing in an area deep within me that I not only didn’t realize was there but was such a painful space for me that I raged against her like she was an intruder coming to attack me in my home. Home being about me internally. My rage against the AP was about me, not my WS. And in some ways I think that being a woman and having the experiences and messages I received from my culture, society, and family about myself and my worth as a human very much impacted that.

I have recently found out that my WS has cheated on me with both men and women. It's the OW that I feel the most pain about. When I start to really hate her, I take a step back to feel what she is triggering in me. I think it comes from some insecurity in myself. I don't feel threatened by the OM I guess.

It's all around shitty, but you now who the common denominator is in all of this...my WH!! He's the one that deserves my anger 100%!

But this is different. I read your post OIN and I really thought about what was different for me this time and I can honestly say for me it was that this one hurt my FAMILY. Her actions had a direct impact on the lives of the souls I love most in this world, my children.

Yes yes, before it is pointed out (as if it needs to be) that it was my husbands choice, I agree, I KNOW, BUT this woman actively tried to destroy my family too, my children’s lives have been directly impacted by her actions and choices.

My husband shouldn’t have let her into our lives, I agree, what she did after (and continues to do) is on her.

I guess for me, I never knew how much of a mumma bear I was until this happened.

YES! Yes, it's that these homewrecking whores directly harmed my kids. On purpose. Knowingly and willingly. They KNEW they were doing something wrong. And they liked it. It made them feel good about themselves. It's so gross and disturbing.

And yes, lots of rage at my xWH for sure, as these are his kids too and he should've protected them. But there's enough rage to go around for all parties involved.

While the anger has cooled, I will always hate her for being an inescapable part of our life.

I hate this so much too. I hate that they are now part of my life and my kids' lives. (not IN our lives, but our life stories)

The next super blow was the exit affair. I assume a coworker. wh told everyone we were separated. Took her publicly to events and meetings. Planned their future. I was visiting intensive care with our new and only grandbaby. For months. She lived in my house while I was in icu with my grandchild. Using my things and my husband. It didn’t bother either of these women to destroy me

These are so huge for me. There are evil people who live among us. Scum.

I'm so sorry. Unforgiveable. How people can be so awful I will never understand.

The OW in my case was a close family friend, a very junior employee of my husband’s, and someone who had taken care of my children while my husband and I traveled on multiple occasions. She spent weekends with us and stayed at our home.

None of my xWH's APs were people I knew personally, thank gods. That's a whole other level of deep betrayal. I'm sorry to those of you dealing with that, too.

My social media stalking proved me right. I found a few recent photos of her during a family event posted on a relative's page. Candid photos. Holy crap. She looked like a grandma stereotype! My apologies to all grandmas everywhere, but I don't know how else to describe this. She looked like a tired old woman. 100% gray, dingy unkempt hair badly chopped at chin length. Old fashioned glasses with thick lenses. A prune face, no makeup. And frumpy granny clothes. That light-beige fake-fiber cable-knit sweater OMG. Yeah, I'm being catty. Not that I'm some youthful perfectly coifed gorgeous thing, but REALLY, she looks at least 15 years older than I do. Which shocked me.

Seeing her in real time vs. the image I had in my mind was a catharsis for me. It's kinda shitty that I had to belittle her physical appearance to finally purge her. Beauty is skin deep and we all age. Some of the most beautiful women (in my opinion) are older women who are unabashedly proud of their aging faces and bodies. But when it comes to evicting AP from squatting rent free in my head, I'll go with whatever works laugh

I understand exactly what you mean! I feel the same. I looked at the long-term AP's social media and felt the same. She is much older than me and she looks it. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but yes, everything you said there. He 100% affaired down. He said she's stupid too, so he wasn't even getting great conversation from her. He just loved her telling him how hot she thought he was Imagine throwing away your whole life, your kids, for that. They're both trash.

So why is it when people that choose to stay married, they hate the other woman so much? When you’re the one being cheated on, it’s really painful to think that the person you loved made a choice to cheat and cause you pain. I understand that. Been there done that.

Is it much easier, instead, to think as though the other person manipulated your partner and he was-helpless to resist? Then it’s more like being hit by a force of nature, and less like, "My partner didn’t value me enough to stay with me".

I can also understand that’s it’s easier to be angry with somebody you don’t know.

Even when our partners have behaved terribly to us, we have a long history of love and closeness with them that makes anger difficult and complicated. The other woman, though? That can be simple rage and hatred.

I wonder if the hurt that youre trying to avoid, by focusing all our anger and blame on the other woman, is exactly where the healing needs to happen.

It’s the hurt of betrayal from someone we trusted.

It’s the hurt of wondering if we just weren’t good enough.

It’s the hurt of wondering how much of their love was sincere and how much was lies.

The other woman doesn’t matter. She could have been anybody. It could be another woman next time, and he’ll still be the person cheating on you. Then is it that AP2 fault?

The other woman doesn’t matter. She could have been anybody. It could be another woman next time, and he’ll still be the person cheating on you. Then is it that AP2 fault?

I'm not sure if your comment was directed at me, but I didn't stay, and as I said I'm angry at my xWH as well. Even more angry at him, as I stated in the OP, because he should've cared about me and our kids enough to not do this. And yep, I'm angry at AP2, and AP3, and AP4, etc, too.

However, I am capable of feeling anger at my xWH and the APs, and I came here to vent to people who understand these confusing and intense feelings.

My anger at the APs does not mean I am not also angry at xWH, or that I'm avoiding dealing with the real issues. I am angry that a grown-ass woman with kids would knowingly and willingly and happily participate in hurting me and my kids. Nope, she didn't make a commitment to me, but I am still angry because she knew. Yes, I'm fully aware there are shitty people in the world. I'm still angry about it. This is just part of the process for some of us, working through this anger as well.

As someone else mentioned in this thread, a big part of it is an intense mama bear reaction. Maybe you've never felt that or can't relate? Either way, the anger those of us feel towards APs is valid and understandable.

[This message edited by csaiht at 7:15 PM, Tuesday, September 7th]

I totally understand the rage. Of course I have rage at WH - he made the vows, he has no remorse, he thinks I'm the one who has to earn a second chance. I also hold the AP accountable - if she said no - if every potential AP said no - then there's no cheating right?

Also, the AP is married. Supposedly her H cheated on her. So she KNOWS how this feels - she KNOWS what it does to the spouse and the family - and still she chose to do it to me. What kind of low life trash does that? As another poster said if you want to ruin your marriage, find a single person to cheat with. Why must you also interfere in my marriage?

Kicker is WH says AP bears no responsibility for what happens in our marriage due to the A, and he bears none for what happens to her and her family. WTF??? This is what I deal with - although not for much longer.

OP - I get it. Totally understandable to feel that way. Advice? I don't have much. I just try to remember that good, moral people don't cheat. They don't ruin innocent people's lives. They are not rational or thoughtful or considerate so I can't expect them to act appropriately. All I can do is hope karma takes a huge bite out of their asses one day.

BTW - I've been listening to a song I just discovered called I Hope. It's Charlie Puth and I forget the woman. Totally relevant to this conversation. Hope you are feeling better.

Kicker is WH says AP bears no responsibility for what happens in our marriage due to the A, and he bears none for what happens to her and her family. WTF???

FFS. Whatever helps you sleep at night, asshat.

BTW - I've been listening to a song I just discovered called I Hope. It's Charlie Puth and I forget the woman. Totally relevant to this conversation. Hope you are feeling better.

Thanks for the reccomendation! I hadn't heard of that one. I just spent the last couple hours listening to it on repeat (I preferred the version with just her singing. SO good). Those lyrics are gold. That's exactly what I hope for my xWH.

I'm feeling really shitty tonight. Yay grief and trauma. It's my son's birthday tomorrow and I'm sad my kids don't have a good dad, that this is our life, that this is part of my kids' story now. Everything I do, I do with what's best for my kids in mind. I can't wrap my mind around risking them, their wellbeing, their safety, for anything.

csaiht - that song is amazing! It’s on my "F*** This Sh*t" playlist I listen to it a lot!!

I’m so sorry you’re having a rough day. It is so hard to understand how someone could be so selfish and cruel by not thinking of the impact their choices will have on the people they love the most. It’s hard for you to see because you are a good person with morals and a fierce love for your family. Your kids are lucky to have a role-model like you to look up to! I know that doesn’t make your situation less crappy, but at least you know that YOU are doing the right things!

Check out "Karma" by Mod Sun.

I hope you choke on every lie you said to me
I hope you move out of this city suddenly
I hope you get everything you deserve
Karma's a bitch, I heard

Oh my H got PLENTY of rage that he so deserved for cheating, BUT, the rage and hate for the AP comes from a place that I FIRMLY believe in and have said many times here on the boards:

YOU DON'T FUCK ANOTHER WOMAN'S HUSBAND. PERIOD.

The AP broke "Girl Code" and knew my H was married. She was/is married too, and that's where the rage is directed when I think about her. How she can look in the mirror each morning and not see a total loser scum bag I will never know.
And the REAL pisser is this is a woman that is completely and totally into her church! She claims to be this wonderful God fearing, church going person, but thought having an affair with a married man was OK.
If I were her I would be afraid to walk through the church doors in fear of being struck by lightning.

I think it’s one of the universal aspects of infidelity- the absolute fury with the AP. I understand that there are exceptions to that, but for those of us that feel angry, it’s almost consuming.

I’m 7 years out and divorced with an international relocation thrown in for good measure. On my good days I pity the OW. On my best days I actually thank her for being the catalyst for revealing to me what and who my Ex really is: a narcissistic asshole to put it mildly. But I can still remember vividly the white hot fury of reading texts between my Ex and OW on Dday that discussed my children’s lives (she was married but childless) and her obvious wish to take my place and I can feel the total blind rage that I felt then. I’m so glad that I never met her- I was so out of control I can’t swear what would have happened.

Funnily enough, my Ex is horrified at the thought of having any contact with her now (per my children). He blames her for all that he lost (namely me and the kids) which is it’s own kind of poetic justice. A narcissist who can’t take responsibility blaming the OW that he pursued. Sure that makes sense. Lol. I’m mostly meh, but I still hope she doesn’t of thirst in the dessert.

Oh my H got PLENTY of rage that he so deserved for cheating, BUT, the rage and hate for the AP comes from a place that I FIRMLY believe in and have said many times here on the boards:

YOU DON'T FUCK ANOTHER WOMAN'S HUSBAND. PERIOD.

Exactly. It's such a violation in so many ways. On top of the psychological and emotional damage, she knowingly put me at risk of STDs without my consent or knowledge. That is sexual assault (from both AP and my xWH, and I let him know in no uncertain terms). APs, unless they're lied to as well and have no idea about the spouse, are absolutely responsible for their actions.

But I can still remember vividly the white hot fury of reading texts between my Ex and OW on Dday that discussed my children’s lives (she was married but childless) and her obvious wish to take my place and I can feel the total blind rage that I felt then.

Yes! I read texts as well where one AP was asking about my kids. MY KIDS! The rage!!! She has 3 kids of her own. She somehow thought it made sense that my xWH was going to leave me and our kids and go be with her & take care of her kids.

My xWH now wants nothing to do with her, but... sorry, too late. That's who you get now.

Check out "Karma" by Mod Sun.

Thanks! I'll check that one out. I've been listening to CeeLo's song -Fuck You- (it's cathartic to belt out FUCK YOU AND FUCK HER TOO!), and recently found another song, also called -Fuck You-, by Kailee Morgue that's good to sing to.

I’m so sorry you’re having a rough day. It is so hard to understand how someone could be so selfish and cruel by not thinking of the impact their choices will have on the people they love the most. It’s hard for you to see because you are a good person with morals and a fierce love for your family. Your kids are lucky to have a role-model like you to look up to! I know that doesn’t make your situation less crappy, but at least you know that YOU are doing the right things!

Thank you! I appreciate that. Setting a good example for my kids is the thing keeping me going right now.

I have recently found out that my WS has cheated on me with both men and women. It's the OW that I feel the most pain about. When I start to really hate her, I take a step back to feel what she is triggering in me. I think it comes from some insecurity in myself. I don't feel threatened by the OM I guess.

It's all around shitty, but you now who the common denominator is in all of this...my WH!! He's the one that deserves my anger 100%!

This is some great perspective. It's actually a benefit to you because you can see who and why you hate right there in your differing reactions, right there in front of you. And it helps you confront the pain. We can't heal it if we don't directly confront it. I read once that anger is a diversion and you need to move it to the side and expose and confront the pain behind it (feelings of vulnerability? Inadequacy?) if you want to truly heal. It seems you are doing that.

My rage at the AP was from a place of not only the obvious transgressions she took against me - but also at what I believed she "took" from me and represented about my own inadequacies.

That's some good work, maise. Your thoughts show so much introspection and analysis of your inner self. I think you are right. Maybe OW feel too much like some painful mirror. Maybe when we attack them, we attack the insecurities that drive us mad.

My rage at the OM (multiple) scared me. For a while, i worried that I would lose control and do something stupid.

I don't feel that way any more. It took a while, and i had to divorce to truly begin the healing process.

But now i can say that the OM don't deserve a molecule of my brain space or emotional effort. It is truly wasted. My brain and soul deserve better.

The OM matter as much to me as a dog turd I stepped in. It sucked, scraping them off of my shoe and cleaning it all up, but they are not my problem now. Just an annoying and faint memory.

I don’t rage at the other women as much as I used to, and it’s really only the first one that gets to me now. However after reading all this, I still don’t think I hate her due to any insecurities on my part. It’s because the entitled little bitch thought she deserved my life and further, tried to get my WH to call off having a baby and tried to get him caught while I was pregnant. She had the nerve to try and shape the course of my life and push her way into intimate details of it (yes, my WH shared that and that’s on him, but she very much pushed and was also a manipulator, so not innocent by any stretch).

So yeah, my self image and all that is good. I don’t feel held back in anyway due to my disdain towards her. I don’t like her and never will and will tell anybody she’s a scumbag given the opportunity. That’s honestly as about as far as I think I need to dig on that one.

If my husband had let someone in my front door,and stood there while they beat me,and my children, with a baseball bat, yes he would be at fault. So would the bitch with the bat.

Saying vows to me, doesn't eliminate the responsibility of human decency when it comes to everyone else in the world.

The AP attacked my family, with the help and encouragement of my husband.

There's enough anger to go around.

And no BS should have to justify, and explain, why they hate someone who attacked their family. FFS