SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Would we be OK with advice that we should just get over it, there are plenty of future spouses out there? Or that you can just go and make a new child?

You’re smart enough to know that’s a horrifically ridiculous straw man and not at all what I meant or said. My point, which was already abundantly clear the first time, is that he isn’t stuck where he is, and the current situation isn’t doomed to repeat.

Comparing a betrayal forum to a bereavement forum... we’re not mourning people here, we’re generally mourning versions of them that were illusions.

This is important. Like VERY important.

If you are committed to divorce and/or you have told her in a traceable way you are divorcing then STOP using the VAR’s and REMOVE them ASAP.

Divorce is by it’s very definition a confrontation. Even amicable and friendly divorces are like saying “sorry” after kicking someone in the crotch. It makes it a bit nicer, but maybe no less painful. If she ends up getting an attorney and if she finds the VAR once you have told her you are divorcing… this can weigh heavily against you in court.

Keep in mind that if you are committed to D then her actions from now on as a woman have little concern for you unless they impact the legal aspects of divorce. You have fired her from her role as wife and thereby from the emotional limitations or expectations of that role. Therefore any information the VAR might give you is either irrelevant (like if she’s planning to see OM, in contact with OM, telling her sister what a jerk you are or whatever) or illegal (as in possibly catching her phone calls seeking advice on the divorce process).

I agree on the removal of the VAR. I don’t think you need any extra motivation to get the D over with. You’ve heard enough, more than anyone should have to. At this point, now that your choice has been made, the VAR is both a legal and emotional liability you’d be best without. I would also strongly advise you against confronting her with any kind of information or tone that would insinuate you’d listened in on her conversations.

Your dealings with her now should be exclusively in the realms of the D process and coparenting.

CM70, many WW back slide and break NC. A plus for you is

that tempted your WW is not breaking NC.

Many WW's go through a grieving period at the lost of their

affair relationship. This a normal behavior. You being upset

that she is mourning this is normal. Yet you ignore her not

wanting to give up your marriage and her not breaking NC.

Being cold 24/7 with a WW that after D day that is NC with

the OM does not help you or your WW heal.

You would both be better spending some time that has positive

emotional reinforcement. Anger 24/7 prevents that.

This is important. Like VERY important.

If you are committed to divorce and/or you have told her in a traceable way you are divorcing then STOP using the VAR’s and REMOVE them ASAP.

Sage advice.

Dignitas – I’m also smart enough to see through your statements that sometimes in occasional exceptions R might be possible and realize – by reading the 30 posts you have already made – that you are a single-solution provider. I wish you were more honest about that.

Basically pining for the AP again, comparing me to him. By the way he got the personality & she says this is superficial

but physical shape, and I got dependable, great provider, caring, & great Dad.

This right here is the insanity of infidelity. You would think that a caring, dependable, great dad and provider is what most women want, but its the superficial shit and the sweet talking that gets them in trouble in the first place. Ask any women of marrying and child bearing age and they'll swear up and down that its the depending father figure is what they're looking for, and then behind closed doors they fantasize about the other.

There are ongoing debates about this, about the good guy finishing last, and that the girls/women want the bad boys. Well, you just heard it from the horse mouth. She wants the bad boy. I don't know how you can unhear those things. She cannot in the same line say that she doesnt want to ruin the kids lives, while also pinning for the AP.

I have nothing to add, as you're getting plenty of advice, but I'm glad that you were able to get this information from the VAR to help you make your decision. Its obvious that she rates AP>OP.

In fairness to oldtruck, he does make a good point.

CM70, your WW's *feelings* are pulling her in the wrong direction, however at least she is doing what she can by her **actions**. She is now keeping NC. Instead of taking her affair underground as many other waywards have done, she has instead resorted to crying to her best friend or therapist. She is also doing her best to "act as if" i.e., she is at least going through the motions of being a loving wife hoping that her feelings come back.

I can't really blame you though, if you have already decided that you cannot un-hear what you heard and that Divorce is the only option for you though, in that case you have to do what you have to do. Those were some tough tough things to hear on the VAR no doubt. I am saying that I think now she is doing all she could.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 3:27 PM, January 14th (Thursday)]

Your dday was when? The end of December? That's only a few short weeks ago.

I get it. She's a cheater and what she did was horrid, but I read the part where she told you she "just can't shut off her feelings like that".

Think about that for a minute. As shitty and as awful as that sounds and actually is, it's true. She was busted and was forced to go NC from the drug she has been indulging in for quite some time. It's bullshit, but she is going through withdrawls.

My husband went through the same thing. I busted him after a year long affair with a married COW. He was forced to go NC (which btw, he didn't as he still saw her at the office everyday) and he went through the same withdrawl issues and "Affair Fog" your wife is going through now.

He did quit his job (his choice) and got himself out of the infidelity, but it took 6 MONTHS before his head came out of his ass and it wasn't until the 18 month mark that our healing began. Yes - it was a shitty 2 yrs post dday, but I had over 20 yrs invested in this man and this marriage and I needed (for myself) to see if we had a chance.

We had pre A issues that were never addressed and once the A ended, everything came out and we worked on them. Our marriage is healed now and we are reconciled. It was hell, but we worked through it.

I guess my point in all of this is the fact that once a lot of the time the wayward DOES figure it out. Have they caused a lot of damage? Oh hell yes, but once they fix their shit they are better than before.

I just don't think there has been enough time between now and dday. She still is going through the process and while I know it sucks and she's 100% to blame for this, are you sure you don't want to give it some more time? You have 20 yrs and kids to consider.

If it's a deal breaker, then it's a deal breaker and you should get out, but if your on the fence, you might want to think about it before getting out.

With that said, NC is not an option and she needs to adhere to that, and you should be free to ask her any questions about the affair and times, and blah, blah, blah, and she needs to agree to this. The AP needs to be non existent from here on out.

I may be the only one on this thread that feels this way, but I am also one that went through hell and came out the other side a better person, in a better marriage and with a better husband. It does and can sometimes work out.

It takes time and ALOT of work.

All of this justifying and empathizing her mourning the loss of her AP is surprising to me.

F. THAT.

Fog Schmog, that stupid word is used to justify so much post-A shitty behavior on the part of the WS. She needs to focus her emotions and energy on her BH. How about mourning the destruction she caused her BH and her marriage? It's insensitive, selfish and yes, it's still wayward.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 5:54 PM, January 14th (Thursday)]

Sorry to read, she prefers unicorn fart land.

Well in a small house with him as her provider, splitting 50/50 custody her unicorn world will come to a crashing halt.

AP will see her at her worst, stressed, sick, monthly cycle, hung over and more. Her family will eventually accept him as her choice but will resent him.

No one wants to be that stable fall back guy.

Keep doing what is right for you. Well don on hitting the gym and eating healthy. Soon you will be looking like Captain America and she will realise what she threw away.

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 7:16 PM, January 14th (Thursday)]

“Don’t worry about your partner pining over someone else, that’s just the fog. It’ll pass! Don’t worry! You’ll get to pick up right back where you left off, as second choice to your own wife! What a privilege that is!”

... Actions and words both matter. Actions and words are only trustworthy WHEN THEY ARE CONGRUENT. Your WW’s, clearly, are not.

Just take a moment and think about how stupid she is. Forget aaaaallll the pain and betrayal, and you’re still left with a complete moron. The whole saga is just entirely unnecessary and brain dead. Even now, her head is still so far up her rectum that she’s pining for some scumbag. Yeah, the loss she feels from losing her affair is greater than the guilt and sorrow she feels for betraying you.

Give that state of being whatever euphemism you want, that doesn’t make it any less idiotic or shameful for her, or any more tenable for CM70.

You have 20 yrs and kids to consider.

Man, you managed to appeal to sunk cost fallacy and “stay for the kids fallacy” in the same sentence! I’m impressed.

[This message edited by Dignitas at 7:20 PM, January 14th (Thursday)]

Don't disclose VAR. Don't do it.

I suggested you file for D, and that your WW is not R material at this point, and I still strongly stand by that suggestion while she's still pining for OM, however your Dday was just last month and of course you're going through what we call "the rollercoaster of emotions" as you have described in your posts just a few days ago where one day you feel like pulling the plug and the next you think about R.

Being that said, filing for D which typically takes a long time (sometimes a couple of years or longer depending on where you live) and actually getting to the finish line when the ink is dry on the D decree are two separate things, and we've seen this play out many times where a BS stops/delays the process at some point to evaluate whether R is still a possibility if situation changes(or starts to change) and the WS comes around and becomes remorseful (not just regretful), lets go of the outcome and seems to be doing the heavy lifting to restore the destroyed M. This where the VARs would still be a valuable tool in your arsenal to verify those changes and that NC with POSOM has not been broken, you could even pick up evidence of your WW eventually hating AP instead of pining for him, of course I'm not saying this will be the case in your situation, but it's a possibility. I agree with "Myshovel" post:

CM70 has gained valuable intel from the VARs, and regardless of his decision to D or R, they may continue to prove useful. Giving up that source at this point is not a good idea. The VARs may find renewed contact with OM, or they may show CM70's WW beginning to find some real remorse. There is sure to be more pain from listening to them, but if WW continues to reveal truth to others while putting on an act with CM70, he deserves to know. Wanting her to "know that he knows" is natural, but pointless in the end.

Of course, as already noted, the other possibility is that a VAR picks up evidence of the WW planning to divorce. I have recent experience with that, even though my deal is relatively ancient history. FWW was acting "distant", and on a whim I picked up the Sony ICD-PX470. Wasn't really thinking I had any reason to use it, but after a dustup Sunday morning, I tossed it into one of the seat-back pockets in her car. Boom. A 15-minute drive and she's talking about getting her ducks in a row and divorcing after our youngest leaves the nest in 2 years. Worse yet, she's doing this with said 16yr old. So now I know, and that's awful on many levels, but confirms she's still lying and that there never really was any remorse at all. Really wish I had known that 4 years ago.

VARs may be illegal without consent in most places, however in the event they are discovered, I have yet to see an infidelity case where it made it to court or that had a big impact on the outcome if any at all, if she really would do anything to save the M like she claims, and knowing that your trust in her is gone because of her huge betrayal, taking you to court for you trying to verify her actions won't help and possibly evaporate any hope for a chance to R. Again this is no legal advice and you may and should run it by your attorney, but If I was in your shoes I probably would still take the risk if you think R is still a possibility you are willing to consider, after all she would still have to prove that's your VAR and that you intentionally placed the VAR there and it didn't just fall from your pocket (wink wink), but even if she has the proof she better be prepared for you to subpoena POSOM and the entire family and close friends to testify in court, who will have a front seat to the sordid details, and her infidelity to become public record.

I agree with buster. Just because you file does not mean the divorce is automatically finalized. You can always stop the process if your wife gets her head out of the sand.

Not sure what the law is where you are at about VARS but I recommend speaking with your lawyer. As for the VAR itself I think you should still keep using it. You are listening to your wife's inner thoughts as well as getting information, she is still in the "affair fog". She has shown some promise by not contacting AP but as Evertrying said your DDay was a few weeks ago.

AP could still reach out to her. She has friends that know AP, as well as AP living near you. She still visits the park which should be a trigger since that is where she met up with AP. So hold onto the VAR in my opinion in case she break NC with AP.

[This message edited by BigNoob at 3:29 AM, January 15th (Friday)]

By the way he got the personality & she says this is superficial but physical shape, and I got dependable, great provider, caring, & great Dad.

Can you clarify what you think your wife was saying about the OM? You have seen the OM is he a good looking guy that works out a lot or does he look pretty normal to you? Or is she referring to something else like his you know what.

The reason I ask is if a woman is not attracted to you then let them go. You don’t want to always be wondering if she is thinking of him. You know and have seen him so why is she attracted to him?

You obviously have great qualities and earn a good living. So do you think she can look at you as physically the better or equal choice to him? If so then then that might be something to think about.

If you do file for divorce you will probably get your answer fast. Does she contact him or does she desperately fight to keep you? You don’t want to end up in a dead bedroom.

I have been known to greatly support R when conditions are right. But having a wife that is pining away for who she is attracted to and believes is more her soul mate absolutely does not fall in the category as someone you can begin reconciliation with.

You may choose to give her time, but until she sees him as a piece of shit who helped her destroy her family, any work attempted will be false and a waste of time in my opinion.

While she is still in this state of mind, which may never end, it’s best to be honest about it and tell her you are not interested in working on a relationship with someone who clearly loves And is in love with, another more than she is with you.

Until she can show she’s done the work to rid the AP as a positive idea from her heart and soul and mind, I’d not waste my time on anything but the D process.

And I’d keep the VAR in place for a while longer. Thru the D you process you will have doubts and it will be good to be able to confirm what she is truly thinking. Better than going thru it blind.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 12:31 PM, January 15th (Friday)]

The Yin/Yang of the WW.

She wants her hot lover to give her the tingles.

And good old dependable husband to keep providing a base for her.

IMO, let her find some other poor sucker to finance her escapades. The world is full of women out there. And many of them are of higher quality than your wife. In fact you could probably throw a rock and hit one. Given that she has set the bar so low.

[This message edited by ramius at 4:53 PM, January 15th (Friday)]

Man, you managed to appeal to sunk cost fallacy and “stay for the kids fallacy” in the same sentence! I’m impressed

Wow. I don't appreciate your sarcasm. Some of the posts on this thread are telling the original poster to basically Burn his wife at the stake, and his dday was just a few WEEKS ago.

I am a BS too and went through the same shitty mess he is going through. I was simply trying to give him another point of view. Yes - my marriage survived, not that his will but this forum is about offering advice and giving people that come here options and assistance for what they are going through.

Yes his wife did a horrible thing and yes its all her fault, but he was invested a lot of time with her and to just tell him to burn her at the stake and move on isn't helping.

And I didn't say "stay for the kids". I am firm believer in NOT staying together just for the kids. I SAID there are kids to CONSIDER. Please don't put words in my mouth.

So to hit on some of the questions above it's been about 6 weeks since I found out on Dec. 5th. Yes she has not broken the NC with the AP per recent VAR conversations. I talked to my lawyer yesterday & they are going to send me the paperwork to start filling out. I did have a conversation today with the WW & she continues to cry a lot which I just respond calmly and rationally. She says she is trying her best and continues to go to her counselor twice a week. Today she brought up the D and couldn't believe I initiated so quickly. Which I responded what did you expect would happen, I would just look the other way? I just told her that this is not going to turn out like she expects. More tears etc...

The AP here is the rub on that guy very artsy, been in the Christmas Play in town for like 30 years straight. My wife is like 6'0" this guy is maybe 5'-10", lean & kind of mousey looking? My WW mom & dad told me they laughed when they saw his FB page & couldn't believe this is what she thinks is so great. My female co-worker who has been my sounding board through this said, "Really, this guy!?" when she saw his FB page. So I don't get it but he must be pushing her buttons with what he is spewing out.

I will continue with the VAR until I send the paperwork in officially. I will continue down the D path, as she has shown me nothing to consider that we could possibly try for R.