SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"She says she is trying her best."

You know what feels fucking amazing when your WW says this? Speaking the truth.

"Your best hasn't been good enough."

"Really, this guy!?"

I got the same thing! Many commented on how they couldn't understand xWH's choices. I believe that most affair "down" and that their looks have little to do with the reasons they stray.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Do you have any plans to tell her about what you know? I guess at this point it doesn't matter, you don't want her to stop speaking about him simply because she knows you know, she needs to do it for your marriage. Again, I'm so sorry.

It's rarely about looks. They're a component, but I think we as men can often forget that women don't experience attraction the same way they do.

Is physical appearance a component? Absolutely. But there's more to it. It's about how they feel when they are around someone, or when they're thinking about them. Emotions, humor, and in the case of cheating, novelty.

The man my ex-gf cheated on me with wasn't unattractive, but he certainly was average looking at best. I am good looking and take excellent care of myself. It didn't matter. A-list celebrities get cheated on. I'd wager there are men who've been recognized as "world's sexiest man" who've been cheated on.

Emotions. Emotions. Emotions.

[This message edited by Dignitas at 5:29 PM, January 15th (Friday)]

It has to be murder trying to keep a straight face when she tells you something and tries to convince you to stick it out, when you know she is contemplating at D at the same time.

Kind of doing a cold cost benefit analysis while swearing she will do anything. How you are able to not counter with something like “do you think I’m an idiot” speaks volumes for you.

Here is the thing. Breaking NC is fairly common even when a wayward wants to stay married. Here, she doesn’t want to break your heart but clearly wants to be with her boy toy despite her lies. It sounds like she wants you to make the decision for her, and simultaneously is astonished that you are. I gotta think she will break nc and soon.

Maybe it’s time to flip the script. How would it work if you asked, “What makes you think I want to stay married to you?” Making it clear that she is no prize and that you are looking forward to life without her drama.

A little wake up call for her. Not sure if that gets her out of the current mind set, but at least you don’t have to pretend that you are buying off on her manipulative behavior.

Also, I think you are on the right track with not letting her love bomb you.

Finally, the next time she claims she is sorry for hurting you, you might try something like “cut the crap. We both know the only thing you are sorry about is getting caught. You would still be in your fucked up affair with this loser, and by now would be fucking him three times a week. The last thing I need from you is false pity. The least you can do is stop treating me like a moron. We both know you are lying and the only thing I want is your signature accepting the divorce papers.”

I know that probably won’t happen, but it feels good to vicariously tell her off. She really is abusing you.

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 6:43 PM, January 15th (Friday)]

It is quite interesting that she was weighing and measuring you, I have question.

What exactly does she bring to table?

Pull the VARs brother your call to D has been made. Don’t disclose them to her.

Keep looking after yourself and the children.

Expose her infidelity to all.

One day at a time.

If you have made your decision and want to D, ask yourself what is the best path for you to heal and move forward in your life without your XWW.

Keep in mind that you will go your way, she will go her way, and whatever the OM looks like, what people think of him, what your XWW says to her sister won’t matter.

Infidelity affects us all. And we have to heal from this one way or another. When we D, the XWS is not part of that healing process.

“This guy?”

Just last night. Found out a friends coworker is cheating on his wife.

And his side piece is not anywhere near as attractive as his wife. Like not even in the same ballpark. And his wife is the sweetest woman.

Go figure.

How would it work if you asked, “What makes you think I want to stay married to you?”

Excellent point. Why do us betrayed spouses leave the decision up to the cheater? Why does it seem the betrayed spouse oftentimes wants to reconcile and the betrayed spouse is on the fence?

[This message edited by The1stWife at 4:26 AM, January 16th (Saturday)]

Not much to add here, CM7. Your WW doesn't realize you've seen behind her mask. She thinks she can still con you. Groveling when she's in your presence, then pining for the AP when you're not around. That's a gut punch.

It's not about you. It's her. As soon as this fling ends, some other AP/sucker will come along and woo her, saying all the things she needs to hear to feel validated.

Ditch the VARs. You have all the evidence you need.

Just filling out the D papers will feel empowering, I promise you.

I agree w keeping the VARs in place until you file.

Keep the VAR in place until you file. Keep a VAR on you always when with her. DV charges from formerly sweet, loving souses is not an urban myth.

CM70,

Sorry to hear about your situation. You really appear to be handling this well given the circumstances. Well done.

Did you ever recover the texts your wife sent to the AP that she was so worried about? If so, anything new that is causing you to move forward now with the divorce?

It appears the biggest obstacle to any potential R is the fact that your wife continues to place the AP on a pedestal. Until she views him the same way you do, an opportunistic manipulator with no moral compass, she can never be R material. I’m curious - has anyone (you, the therapist, her sister) confronted her about her view of him by laying out some very obvious facts:

1. The AP is divorced due to his wife cheating. Given how much pain infidelity causes everyone involved, he obviously knows how wrong cheating is but decided to initiate the affair. AP has seriously harmed you, your wife, your children, and your family. Why would your wife continue to have feelings for such a person? Has she been asked this question directly?

2. She has only been involved with the AP for a few months while he pushed her buttons and told her everything she wanted to hear. She has never seen him when he is angry, depressed, or in a bad mood. All she gets is his best face while he attempts to seduce her. How could she possibly believe he “gets her” more than her long-term partner of 20 years?

I would not be surprised if AP is spinning a few plates without your wife’s knowledge. If your wife could be shown she’s just another piece, that might also change her opinion of him quickly. Not sure if your wife’s coworker, who appears to be on your side, could provide any insight into how much of a player the AP happens to be.

Whether you proceed with divorce or R, it would be helpful to change her opinion of AP. You do not want this person involved in your children’s lives.

The AP here is the rub on that guy very artsy, been in the Christmas Play in town for like 30 years straight.

CM70,

You may want to think about outing the AP to the organizers of the Christmas play as well as some of the regular play participants. In addition to much needed consequences for him, it could easily help deal a damaging blow to his and your WW’s relationship.

IMO when you file you should expose to everyone (especially to your kids' support network: including the parents of your kid's friends, their coach, and teachers).

Not counting the OM's circle of friends, by now your wife alone has probably shared her affair with enough people that it's likely that everyone that knows you as a couple is at a minimum aware that there's a rumor going around...

BlueRasberry,

Yes I called her out on the AP early on asking what his back story was? WW said his wife cheated on him & they got a divorce. I said really what a piece of shit, my WW says "He told her he became something he hated, for doing what he did". Of course that didn't stop him from continuing the affair. He is not a player, I can tell just by looking at him and meeting him before. He is the goofy guy trying to hard for everyone to like him.

You are correct on my WW never seeing his bad side. Get a mortgage together, have kids, pay bills, live with the WW for a while we will see how long the "honeymoon phase" lasts. I have told her all these things but she is just oblivious to reality. One thing that I really struck a nerve with me telling her this guy has a drinking problem. He drinks a lot every weekend, like alcoholic type levels. My WW's real Dad was/is a recovering alcoholic of many decades. I said you want to deal with that to the WW. She said oh he doesn't have a problem, I said look at his FB page it's always a party & drinks involved. I also told her she has severe Daddy issues and the need for a man's attention due to her Dad being MIA sometimes in her childhood, also struck a major nerve and she was very defensive on this one.

I will expose the affair to my friends & extended family she will try to damage control saying she had been unhappy in the relationship. I will not get into telling coaches, kids friends, teachers I think that is too much. I am sure my kids will share to whom they want to tell in their circles.

[This message edited by CM70 at 3:31 PM, January 16th (Saturday)]

CM70,

Thanks for the reply - that clears a few things up.

Has your wife changed therapists? Seems like the one she started with was horrible and not addressing her infidelity directly. Perhaps she needs a therapist that specializes in infidelity and stresses personal responsibility/ownership.

Doesn't sound too promising unless serving the divorce papers really flips a switch with her. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

CM70, that has to be absolutely positively rage-inducing, hearing your WW defend OM from you. If I can suggest one thing though, it is to talk about the OM as little as possible. Your WW is just not thinking straight. The more you bash the OM, the more your WW will end up standing up for OM. And nothing good can come from that--i.e., improving the chances of this guy being around after divorce, or even in the oft-chance of your marriage getting to be repaired.

In fact, I would guess that the dynamic between them is that they can relate to each other in how fucked up they are. Your WW looks at you who has his life together and maybe feels resentful about that, because she feels judged (even if it is by her own expectations) by not being able to live up to you. With OM she feels relieved and free--he cannot judge her because he is as broken as she is. That everyone in her family hates him only adds to the dynamic. Now they are Romeo and Juliette, star-crossed lovers, just the two of them together facing this mad hostile world!

There was a poster on this forum, I am pulling a blank as to who he is (if you are the poster whom I am referring to reading this please forgive me and let me know who this is so I can give credit) who has an awesome script for dealing. I am paraphrasing here:

"WW, I wish you happiness, but I deserve happiness too. I cannot stay married to a woman who has feelings for another man. I will not compete with another man for the affection of my own wife. I don't know if this marriage is at all salvageable, you hurt me deeply not only with your stepping out, but with your going behind my back and lying to me. I can tell you though, that until you let go of OM completely there is absolutely no chance for us. "

But, keep the conversation about "you and she" to how hurt and angry you are and first and foremost your own standards--how you have too much self-respect to be anyone's Plan B, least of all your wife's.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:14 PM, January 16th (Saturday)]

Brother respect ✊

One day at a time.

Has your wife expressed any ideas about what her future post divorce is going to look like? Does she think she is going to move in with her AP and start afresh?

I really struggle to see what her game plan is. She seems to be a forty-five year old woman who thinks that destroying a twenty-year marriage and family is magically going to bring her happiness.

People have commented that she must be nuts or stupid, but it seems more like she has brainwashed herself that the marriage equals unhappiness, while the true reasons for her unhappiness so clearly come from within her.

You mentioned a mid-life crisis, and that is possible, but in a way her reasons are almost irrelevant to you and the kids, because you have to deal with her actions and attitude, regardless of where they come from.

The sad thing is that she is likely to come to her senses, and see what she deliberately and wilfully destroyed after it is irretrievably gone. Probably when she is living in an apartment on her own, a few years from now.

In many ways, it is like trying to talk sense to a drunk. You must feel exhausted by this.

Please focus on taking care of yourself and the kids, and perhaps reduce the time and energy you are putting into trying to talk sense to your wife. You are banging your head against a wall on that score.

EDITED TO ADD:

I called her out on the AP early on asking what his back story was? WW said his wife cheated on him & they got a divorce. I said really what a piece of shit, my WW says "He told her he became something he hated, for doing what he did".

Did your wife say at what stage her AP said that? It sounds like something he may have said during her 50 minute call to him right after you busted her.

It would be a strange statement to make early on in an affair that he intended to pursue, or without some reason - like the affair being discovered - to do so.

I think you are right to question the sincerity of it, because his self-proclaimed self-loathing was not strong enough to prevent the affair lasting six months. It would probably still be going if you had not discovered it.

It sounds more like something he would have said in their final call, as a reason why the affair had to end, when he was panicking about possible consequences, trying to cut his ties with your wife.

Is it possible that he may have told her not to contact him, and that is a factor in her not doing so? She clearly wants to contact him, because in a recent VAR conversation she mentioned not being able to use her phone (you would see that), possibly using her work phone (but deciding she would not do that), and then wondering about sending him a letter.

In any of the calls you have heard, has she mentioned what her AP's attitude to continuing to see her is like? It sounds like the guy has cut and run, and does not want contact from her.

[This message edited by M1965 at 3:25 AM, January 17th (Sunday)]