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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 6:24 AM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023

Bigger,

Yes, what you mention seemed to be absolutely unimaginable just 3 months ago, but what happened since then... I really cannot tell what to expect from her. I heard very-very nasty stories so I better expect the worst. I have to remind myself to remain calm in all situations, never give any reaction to provocation and focus only on the kids, household and myself.
Yes, about the last one... myself.. yes I am going escape from this cheating nightmare by filing a divorce, but TBH sometimes I don't know how to move on with my life, since I've built my entire life and identity around the family... and her. Was it a mistake? Maybe. Now I feel myself like a borg drone from star trek detached from the collective feeling confused and uncertain about the future. I feel alone, but I know I have to remain strong and make an example at least for the kids.
Every morning I wake up I remind myself - ok you are alone now, but you won't give up. I won't give this pleasure to my WW.
Feeling unloved and betrayed by somebody you'd give your life for without hesitation is the hardest thing in life.

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8791824
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 3:25 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023

Madmax- 3 months ago would you have characterized your WW as devoted, loving, and affectionate and your marriage as solid?

If yes, then I would think there is and always was something psychologically wrong with your WW, and it just showed itself. Thus, her internal damage was already there just latent.

posts: 785   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8791834
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 5:00 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023

Are you in IC? If so, are you talking about your angst with your IC? What do you want to change? If not in IC, is it possible? If you find a good IC, it may be a great investment.

Yes, it is a mistake to build your sense of yourself around partner and kids. You're a lot more than partner, father, participant in the economy....

Max, your W's A and her behavior since the A is on her. It says nothing about you.

Have faith in yourself to heal and to find yourself.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:01 PM, Saturday, May 20th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29954   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8791841
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Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 7:03 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023

MM,

I just wanted to send you some good positive wishes and lots of strength. Your wife is deeply lost in the affair at the expense of her family and future. She may regret it at some point or maybe even never. You are in a way lucky that she has made the path ahead pretty definite and clear for you. Better that than being stuck for years with a false hope of reconciliation. You are trying to be as fair as you can be in the separation agreements. You have honestly done your best, now focus on what life ahead means for you as a single dad. Not on the why’s and how’s of her behavior. It will serve no purpose and set back your progress forward.

Take time to heal, to regain your sense of self worth and recover from the feeling that you were abandoned. It is a reflection of her weak mind and has got nothing to do with you. Your kids need a strong, happy parent. Take care. You will be ok.

posts: 284   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2023
id 8791849
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Sceadugenga ( member #74429) posted at 8:57 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023

If yes, then I would think there is and always was something psychologically wrong with your WW, and it just showed itself. Thus, her internal damage was already there just latent.

If that's the case, the whole thing gives off strong vibes of narcissistic relationship dynamic with Madmax currently going through the final discard phase. When a narcissistic person has a new person to idealise and adore, the whole empathy for the old lover/partner/spouse gets chucked to the curb; they stop pretending they care (in a sense, they never did) and reveal all the ugly aspects of their personality. Sometimes it's combined with needless nastiness and emotional cruelty.

posts: 303   ·   registered: May. 13th, 2020
id 8791858
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 8:08 AM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

I also think that there can be some covert narcissistic personality trait / disorder in place. I started to notice couple of years ago that my wife lacked empathy in certain situations and always trying to put her needs / will at first place.

I also noticed the lack of deep emotions and the lack of conversations about those emotions in my entire relationship.

She is extremely sensitive to critics, sometimes I felt I could not even tell her anything that would shed the slightest negative light on her. In that cases she gave me cold-treatment for days. I interpreted this to be a very low self-confidence I tried to avoid these critics and be constructive (it was like walking on egg-shells communicating with her) and help her build a better self-image. This of course stopped all honest conversations with her.

Just some background information: His father is a very selfish, narcissistic person. When his wife died, he introduced a new girlfriend very very quickly (like in 3 months) to the family and he did not care about the fact that the children were still traumatized and not prepared for this at all. He behaved like if you cannot accept my new girlfriend then basically f.ck off, and we haven't seen him in 8 years. He did not care about his family (son and daughter and grandsons, granddaughters) and their emotional need for the remaining parent/grandfather. He did not even care about the birth of our 3rd child, nor did he send any greeting cards or anything to show he cares. He ghosted us and apparently started a new life with the new family on his own terms, the old family was pretty much detached / forgotten in 6 months. I could not believe that time how somebody can behave like this.

How somebody can throw away his family after 30 years just like that. Like you buy a new car. Unbelievable.

I get the feeling that this genetic heritage of NPD began to clearly surface in my WW's behavior. The new lover came into picture and she shows no remorse, no empathy (even irritated by mentioning her affair) to the 'old' lover, me. She does not even pretend and she turned into another direction and does not give any(!) attention to those she left behind. She feels absolutely nothing bad about this, she still laughs, has a good time, planning for the summer with no issues (only issue is the lack of money), while others around her are in ruins.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 8:10 AM, Sunday, May 21st]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8791887
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 2:01 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

After reading your update, Max, I am left with the feeling of just... Wow!!!

Did you notice any sort of those behaviors when you two first began dating?

You are up against a long hard road as you try to disengage your life from her. I am sorry.

posts: 280   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8791902
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:59 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Madmax

I have mentioned before how you – as most betrayed husbands – follow a pattern. I also suggest that recognizing and breaking that pattern is the best way out of infidelity.
Well… what you are doing now: trying to find logical or psychological reasons for why she did this. Trying to explain how this was maybe inevitable because she was faulty from the start.
Don’t bother…
There isn’t anything to gain from this.
She’s neither a genetic psychotic, the worst cheating Jezebel in the Universe, the worst case we have seen here, a psychopath, narcissist… whatever. She’s simply a woman that decided to seek her validation in the wrong places in the wrong way. She could have been the best wife for x years, but for the last y months she’s been the worst wife.

Facts are what they are: She had an affair, she broke the covenant of marriage, she didn’t stop once you learned of it…

The only thing you need to decide per se is: Do I want to remain in infidelity or do I want to leave infidelity?

Note I don’t ask if you want to be married or not.

If you want to remain… well… good luck… There are plenty of people that open their marriage or pretend to belief their spouse when they have to "work late" the third Thursday evening in a row – at a hotel. Not my cup of tea and not something I recommend though.

If you want out of infidelity… well… It’s like sitting in a burning house, wanting to feel comfortable but choking on the smoke and feeling pain from the flames. No matter how much you WANT to be inside and comfortable then the only logical action is to get out – even if it’s raining outside.

Now – if this was a burning house then it would be OK to make some attempts to save it. But once the flames are all over… get out.

IMHO that’s where you are right now. You file and carry on with divorce because a) she isn’t really giving you another option and b) you want to divorce.

Now – if she were to come to you and ask for another chance and offer to follow any demand you make… You could reconsider. But that would be your choice. Only a) you don’t have that choice right now and b) it does sound like you would turn it down anyways.

Focus on getting out. Don’t spend time expecting her to change or being shocked at her demeanor.
In fact – if you do want to shake her world then do something unexpected – don’t follow the expected pattern:
Be happy!
Be glad. Be active.
If she asks you why you are so chipper then tell her "I’m getting out of infidelity. It’s not what I envisioned my future to be only a few months ago, but I know with 100% certainty that once out of infidelity I will be heading to happiness and a bright future".

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12406   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8791910
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Sceadugenga ( member #74429) posted at 3:05 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Max - reading what you wrote above made me both extremely sad and quite happy. Sad, because I seem to understand the pain you must be going through and the pain that's still ahead. It also makes me happy, though, because having such clarity and tremendous insight into some pretty f***d up relationship and emotional dynamic going on in her family should give you great strength and help in your healing.

In a way, your mind knows or is beginning to realise that you were dealing with a very broken individual who you never got to know. Take that knowledge and use it to help yourself detach from this horrible situation with the least amount of emotional scarring for you and your kids. Your therapist will help you reconcile what your heart feels with what your mind knows.

It's a long and painful road, but you've just made a great start - even if it doesn't feel that way. There's light at the end of the tunnel and I do hope you'll see it soon.

[This message edited by Sceadugenga at 5:19 PM, Sunday, May 21st]

posts: 303   ·   registered: May. 13th, 2020
id 8791914
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Tempocontour ( member #65971) posted at 2:56 AM on Monday, May 22nd, 2023

Based on what I've been reading, you're giving her too much leeway. So far she's seen no action but lots of chatter from you. You need to 180 her now and give her divorce papers. Chat only about your kids and finance. Chat with your lawyer, file papers and give her copies of them. Keep moving forward with the divorce. While she's in la la land, get her to sign the papers while it could still be in your favor. Divorcing her is not the end of the world but the end of the current marriage.

posts: 103   ·   registered: Aug. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Northeast
id 8791971
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seaandsun ( member #79952) posted at 7:30 AM on Monday, May 22nd, 2023

I read your posts with sadness,

I realize that you only read the advice given here and do not have the courage to apply it in your life.

You used the word respect often but you didn't respect yourself, you didn't respect your decisions, you didn't respect your children, you didn't respect your family,

the mystery why you expect respect

You did not disclose the relationship, did not investigate, did not go to a lawyer, did not confront your wife with a file that you strengthened with evidence, you only said words that you could not keep to your wife and the forum.

How many times are you talking about divorce, if your wife smiles at you, you will give up again, she will cheat on you again.

start therapy, you have personal problems, you have to learn to overcome them, you need to take responsibility for your children but how do you do this while avoiding your own responsibilities.

You insist on 15 years of marriage, but let alone how many times your wife has cheated on you, you ignore that your wife is no longer interested in being your wife. He hasn't been married to you for a long time. Don't be obsessed with signatures on papers.

I'm sorry I couldn't be optimistic, but it's hard to ignore your behaviors that affect your children's personality and psychology.

your wife looks more stable than you.

posts: 66   ·   registered: Feb. 16th, 2022
id 8791982
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 12:51 PM on Monday, May 22nd, 2023

seaandsun,

Thank you for your oppinion, but I cannot ignore the fact that you miss a lots of things that I've already mentioned here and already happened.

(1) Disclousre

I've disclosed the affair not only to my wife, but to all family and friends and notified them then I'm going to divorce.

In my country, the court does not care who f.d who, so only the spouse support will be affected if a spouse decides to betray his/her family.

(2) Investigation

I actually did investigate, I know now the full identiy of AP, his phone, address, recorded their phone conversations using VAR and I also have a witness who saw them coming out from a 'just friends' motel and believe that is more than have enough evidence to zero her spouse support.

(3) Therapy

Funny you mention, but if you take the time to read back I mentioned many times that 2 weeks after the DDAY1 I started a therapy because of my emotional shock and PTSD symptoms. For 1.5 month I visit trauma specialists who helped me to get my shit together and be able to function as a human being after such a betrayal. Not because I'm f.d up by default, it is because the trauma that the cheating caused.

(4) Stability

Yes, I agree my wife was very-very stable and consistent delivering further lies, continue the affair and lie about it and gaslight and blameshift me more.

She told me many times she finished the affair and I believed her because foolishly I still loved her (sorry) and tried to believe in her in the last 2 months. EVERY TIME she said that, in the next 2-3 weeks I caught her betraying me again, so I got DDAY2 and then the phone messages under a fake name, WHICH WAS the last drop. (BTW she said to me she also hesitated what to do and in her family oriented hesitation she tried to organize a f.ck marathon).

You know not out of fear, but in the hope of doing everything to save my marriage I endured these 2 terrible months. But after the last incident I went to visit my LAWYER and INITIATED the divorce MYSELF (also recorded here, even mentioned the conditions).

I also admitted that I was in an emotional storm and could not see straight during these 2 months. But I drew a line. Where I drew a line it is my personal boundary.

BTW the separation offer will be sent to her via mail this week, probably tomorrow or on Wednesday and she has to reply to it, otherwise the lawsuit as it is will go for the court in 15 days. Is this a hesitation?

I really admire people who can decide so quickly about a fate of a 15 year marriage WITH 3 children considered. It took me 2 months. Sorry, if somebody sees this as instability and/or personal issues.

And I will rather be a single dad who will teach his children not to accept a liar in a relationship but bust her/reveal her and show the consequences. DIVORCE is in this case the consequence which will happen in 15 days with an aggreement or not.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 12:59 PM, Monday, May 22nd]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8791999
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Lurkingsoul12 ( member #82382) posted at 1:05 PM on Monday, May 22nd, 2023

Madmax, I understand your predicament. 2 months is not a long time. Your wound is still fresh. Your pain and trauma is still raw. So, yeah, you hesitated, hooked up to hopium, and made few mistakes which are all too common for newly betrayed. I won't be surprised if you are still smoking hopium. BS too follow certain patterns. But, I also see seriousness in you to get out of this infidelity one way or another. You are predictably and understandably angry and frustrated which to some people looks like instability. How can betrayed not be angry and frustrated?

Anyway, no matter what you do, don't get stuck in limbo and continue to progress forward. Good luck.

posts: 457   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2022
id 8792000
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 1:31 PM on Monday, May 22nd, 2023

Max... Hang Tough. You are doing the things you should be doing. No one here had all the knowledge and guts necessary when their D-day happened... save one. Even while he was bravely marching forward and immediately acting, he kept feeling his love for his wife... or who he thought had been his wife.

From the old Mary Tyler Moore theme song... "You're Going to Make It After All".

posts: 280   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8792002
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SI Staff ( Moderator #10) posted at 2:13 PM on Tuesday, May 23rd, 2023

seandsun, you have a pm.

posts: 10033   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 8792152
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 3:35 PM on Tuesday, May 23rd, 2023

I occasionally think people need to leave fairly quickly because they have nothing left to work with, but I sincerely hope that I have never shamed anyone about it. The idea of dismantling a family, a family home, family finances, not to say anything about the betrayed spouse, and the children, and the collateral damage of the rest of their friends and families, make it so difficult to take that first step. So stop belittling him over waffling. It is human nature to hang on until the last hope is gone.
Keep on keeping on. It is the old one foot in front of the other time. You will get there….wherever there is when you want to.
In the meantime look after your health.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4233   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8792161
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WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 9:40 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

@madmax76, you are not weak, you have recently had an enormous bomb dropped on your life that you are not to blame for. We are all intensely rooting for you to leave this crazy situation put upon you by your sick-and-twisted WW.

The best analogy I can think of is this: It is a bit like watching a horror movie where the protagonist is tired or wounded, and the serial killer is in the next room. And we are all screaming for the protagonist to feel the urgency of the situation, and summon the strength to either run from the house and/or put up his sword to defend himself from the bad guy. So sometimes the posts can be a quite intense....

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:47 PM, Thursday, May 25th]

posts: 870   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
id 8792523
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 7:38 AM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

The entire situation is/was very intense and I'd really like to thank you for all of your advises, opinions and it does not matter if they are harsh or soft. I've never ever been in a situation like this.
Currently the offer letter for the agreement was sent out to her. My lawyer gave her 15 days to reply. If no reply will be received, we will officially file for divorce with my conditions.
So far my wife did not approach me to discuss anything at all. I guess she first will go to her lawyer and/or family.

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8792572
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sven ( new member #80286) posted at 3:17 PM on Saturday, May 27th, 2023

are you planning on telling the aps wife?

posts: 37   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2022
id 8792834
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 8:03 PM on Saturday, May 27th, 2023

I’m sorry your marriage has dissolved to Divorce being the only option. But as you can see you cannot reconcile if only 1/2 of the people in the marriage want to R and/or stop cheating.

Why did you wife cheat? The only logical answer is b/c she wanted to. That is it. Everything else is an excuse or justification. She wanted to cheat so she has an affair. She just didn’t care about anyone else but herself.

Hoping for the best for you.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13929   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8792850
Topic is Sleeping.
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