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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 9:53 PM on Saturday, May 27th, 2023

Yes, I talked to the lawyer and initiated divorce, because after 2 months there were absolutely no signs of reconciliation from her. I busted her two more times in just 2 months after DDAY1. The last one was when she tried to communicate with the AP using a fake name in Contacts just to hide her affair. This shows she proactively looked for the attention of another man. That was the last drop because I realized she does not care about anything but wants to continue the affair despite all of my attempts to save the marriage. She does not seem to care that the price we will all pay is a broken family and traumatizing kids. She does not care. I really hate her because of this.

Regarding to informing the OBS: I talked to many friends about this and they are like 50-50 on what to do.
Currently I feel revealing the affair would be the last step I have to do (from ethical perspective and just for a little revenge, just to shake the AP, just to make him feel scared and maybe panicked), and after that I would feel like 'mission completed'.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 10:02 PM, Saturday, May 27th]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8792854
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fareast ( Moderator #61555) posted at 10:47 PM on Saturday, May 27th, 2023

Sorry to read this but your WW has left you no options but D. Your feelings are 100% valid and normal. Your hatred for her is normal. As you move forward remember the goal is to get out of infidelity, heal you, take care of your children and reach indifference when it comes to your WW. No contact will help you achieve this. Do not engage or argue with her. You are moving on and building a new life. Communicate about children and finances only. Preferably in writing or by email. Follow your attorney’s advice. Become a grey rock when dealing with her. Give her nothing to react to or argue about. Learn phrases such as: "Sorry you feel that way." This will help you detach. Get out and exercise and be active. Be active with your children. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:47 PM, Saturday, May 27th]

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 3885   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8792856
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 11:45 PM on Sunday, May 28th, 2023

Strength, inform OBS, highlight and grey rock to move on. One day at a time.

Buffer

posts: 1318   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8792914
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:40 PM on Monday, May 29th, 2023

I want to reword one statement made above.
It’s the one that your wife left you no option but to divorce.

It’s a slight rewording – but an immense change in thought. The above line suggests your wife controls the flow and the narrative. It give her the power.

Your views on marriage, fidelity and life left you no option but to get out of infidelity. Since your wife chose to remain in infidelity your path to get out goes past the milestone of divorce.
You had the option of turning a blind eye, pretending not to notice, waiting until the affair died or whatever. But you – YOU – decided that you don’t want infidelity and the path out will lead to her remaining in infidelity when you move to other pastures.

Remember the story I posted back early on your thread:

Imagine you need to go get life-or-death treatment for some illness. The only way to get to the treatment is by train, and the schedule says the next train is a week from now. The illness in infidelity, the life-or-death is if your marriage can survive. You let your wife know and tell her that you can preorder tickets online. She either tells you she isn’t going or doesn’t commit, yet you reserve 2 tickets. The whole week you mention the trip, and she doesn’t respond too much. The day before you let her know that you are leaving at 10:00 tomorrow and again ask if shes coming too. Next day she might drive you to the station. You could tell her that you packed a bag for her too, yet she doesn’t commit. You go and pay for both tickets and ask her to follow you to the platform and the train and she does. At the train you again ask her to board and she doesn’t. Where you stand in the train you again let her know it’s not too late yet she stands still. When the train pulls out you might call that she can still jump on board… Yet if she doesn’t YOU are still leaving. YOU are getting infidelity dealt with.


IMHO you are probably at the place in the above story where you have boarded the train and she’s on the platform wondering if she maybe made a mistake, but still has some misplaced belief that you might get off the train. You should be arranging your suitcase and finding your place in the book you plan to read on the ride – IF she were to jump on… well… deal with that if that happens, but otherwise just enjoy the ride.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12407   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8792959
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sven ( new member #80286) posted at 4:26 PM on Monday, May 29th, 2023

Listen, it's non-negotiable - you must always inform the OBS. As someone who's experienced being left in the dark, you should know better. The idea that you're even considering not telling the OBS is unthinkable. It completely baffles me that there are people out there who'd entertain such an idea. How can you turn a blind eye to someone who's in the same situation as you were, just because it's not directly affecting you now? It's not just wrong, it's incredibly selfish.

posts: 37   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2022
id 8792975
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:53 PM on Monday, May 29th, 2023

The non-negotiable bit is that the BS is in charge of themself. The BS is in charge of informing or not informing OBS.

I was fortunate in not having to make the choice; obs knew before I did. I don't know what I'd have done if I had been the 1st to know. I do know that I can still find some anger at obs for not informing me.

BSes have an immense amount of work to do after d-day. Part of that work is to decide on the priority of each task. Max has made some choices. We may not like all of his choices - but he gets to make them.

I, too, think max's best approach includes informing OBS ASAP, but it's not a requirement for membership in the human race or among BSes or even to join SI.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:56 PM, Monday, May 29th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29958   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8792977
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Pragmatic ( new member #63510) posted at 8:28 PM on Monday, May 29th, 2023

I think madmax76 needs to think about this. Would his wife make divorce difficult if he exposed AP, if not go ahead, if possible, then wait till the divorce is final then blow up his and hers life, she can't do anything at that stage.

posts: 35   ·   registered: Apr. 20th, 2018   ·   location: England
id 8792998
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 8:59 PM on Monday, May 29th, 2023

In Max's case I agree with Pragmatic.

In my opinion, Max should try to make the divorce as amicable as possible, because his wife seems to be a cold hearted person and could really make his life miserable if she is exposed early.

After the divorce is final, then have a ball telling the OBS and other interested people. The AP should not be able to get off without any consequences because of his part in splitting this family apart.

posts: 280   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8793001
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Tempocontour ( member #65971) posted at 3:15 AM on Wednesday, May 31st, 2023

If going to divorce, do not expose to anyone until after the divorce is signed and sealed. While your wife is in affair la la land, she could give you a favorable divorce. Do this as quick as you willingly can before she wakes up. Once the ink is dried, expose, expose, expose.

posts: 103   ·   registered: Aug. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Northeast
id 8793200
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 8:33 AM on Wednesday, May 31st, 2023

I will definitely inform the OBS, this is my decision. I will not let AP walk away without consequences and yes, the other wife also deserves to know what I know now. You know what enrages me is that my wife is seemingly totally ok destroying our family, but would be mad at me if my actions to OBS would do the same? The two families are not in the same price range for her? What is the logic behind this? Can I believe that she protects the AP more than our family and kids? This would be just ridiculous and so disappointing.

Today I will contact a PI and ask them to get the identity of the OBS. After I get the identity I will just keep the information until my wife signes the agreement on kids custody, alimony, ways of contact, and place of living and we will file the divorce papers together to court. (this is called agreement based divorce).

To be honest, it IS VERY HARD to communicate with her. She is totally locked down. I know she received the mail about the divorce agreement, but she did not approach me or communiate with me in any way about it. I proactively asked her about this on the weekend, and her first reaction was that she had to talk to the attorney first... I said ok, you have every right, but I am here, if you want to change any of the points, you want to do anything differently, then please lets sit down and talk about it. I am open to any suggestions. Since it has to be something we mutually want... and with shared custody we have to able discuss everything. Slowly she came up with some points she wanted to do differently but she was not sure about them. She was always telling me, she needs more time than 15 days... I asked how much more? she would not know..Ok, I told her I wont wait indefinitely, and here I gave you a hard deadline, which is 15th of June, EOD. She said something inaudible and nodded.

You know, I have a feeling that she did not have DIVORCE in her plans. She would have gone with meeting her sex partner beside the marriage just as AP did. Pitty for her, his husband (me) found out her affair pretty quickly. I am totally sure the OBS DOES NOT KNOW anything.

So I booked an appointment with the attorney for the 16th of June, so either we will file with an agreement, or I will file (and of course this kind of divorce (fact-based) will be longer and potentially more riskier regarding to the outcome. This process includes presenting evidence, hearing witnesses and revealing why the marriage ended up like this.... and this can be much more embarassing to her and to the AP because the hearing is public and I am thinking inviting the OBS to this, let her know what my WW has to say about the affair under oath).

After the attorney officialy files the divorce papers (signed by me and her) to the court, I will drop the bomb to the OBS.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 8:42 AM, Wednesday, May 31st]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8793218
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 2:12 PM on Wednesday, May 31st, 2023

Thanks for this update.

It appears you have all your ducks in a row. My thoughts are that she is embarrassed that her laundry will be aired out in the public for everyone to see. That might be why she is holding back on definite dates, etc.

You have given her every chance to change but she refused.

posts: 280   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8793229
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:34 PM on Wednesday, May 31st, 2023

Why do you need the PI? I would hold on to that money unless and until it becomes legally necessary. You have previously stated:

I actually did investigate, I know now the full identiy of AP, his phone, address, recorded their phone conversations using VAR and I also have a witness who saw them coming out from a 'just friends' motel and believe that is more than have enough evidence to zero her spouse support.


I think the only role the affair has now is as pressure to get her to sign and not delay. You let her know that if you two cant reach an amicable and acceptable deal between the two of you then your only option is to file on the basis of infidelity, and that would require that the OM, that the receipts, CCTV and registry at the "Motel Venus" where they staid and that the HR records regarding her investigation would be subpoenaed, as well as witness statements from the friends that saw her leave the hotel with OM, phone-records and so on and so on.
Just make one thing clear from day one: Although you are using the "threat" of the above to make her act on the divorce you are NOT using the threat to get her to accept a bad deal.

If she needs more than 15 days then demand she moves out as soon as possible.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12407   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8793230
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 9:19 AM on Thursday, June 1st, 2023

Bigger,

(1) I know the identity of the AP and a registered address of the phone he is using, but I don't know who his spouse is, nor her phone number. On social media I could not find anything, no photos and no network shared publicly. That is why I was thinking to involve a PI to get all the missing info. And BTW I still think informing the OBS is a morally right thing to do. The timing however is important.

(2) I cannot demand legally my WW to leave the house before the agreement is settled. She has every right to live in our house, unfortunatelly.

And we both know, that whoever leaves the house (without the intent to return) will start from a way worse position when it comes to child custody.. because the judge will take it is a proof that one left the family... and that is why we are 'forced' to live together in this situation... I can tell you it is like hell.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 9:22 AM, Thursday, June 1st]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8793342
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 10:44 AM on Wednesday, June 7th, 2023

How’s it going Max?
Has she responded?

Max – I push. I try to make people take action. I’m fine if it’s to reconcile or to divorce. What I absolutely hate is when someone comes here all angry and worked up with unrealistic expectations or action-plans for either R or D and then just don’t do anything…

Not saying you are there… At first you did scream D but clearly wished for R and acted that way… But lately you have been quite firm on your stance to D.

I encourage you to stay your path… D if that’s what you want. What you do NOT want to do is be all quiet and huff and puff and then a year from now you are still married, wife still at her job and you have found some way to coexist without dealing with her decision to cheat. This is often confused with reconciliation, but has nothing to do with R.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12407   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8794234
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 10:16 PM on Wednesday, June 7th, 2023

Yes, at first I was hesitating what to do. My brain told me to divorce ASAP, my heart told me to try everything for my beloved wife. Turned out my beloved wife does not exist anymore. What she is now, I really don't know. A remorseless, cold, distant, super selfish alien maybe. As you know I busted her and found out she continued the affair, lied about everything and cheated multiple times after DDAY1. So after two months I decided that I wont live with a serial cheater anymore who does not love and respect me or give a f.ck about me and went for D. I am totally determined for D, there is no going back from this point.

I got no reply and no response of any kind so far to my divorce offer. When I ASKED about it a week ago she told me her lawyer was on holiday for 2 weeks so I gave her one more week to consider her reply.

I also told her that by end-of-day of June 15 we should come to an agreement otherwise I will go ahead with my version and ask the court to decide based on facts, evidence and witnesses. This version is of course way longer so that's way I wanted to have an agreement.

She may not reply at all - she maybe hopes that the practice of our law system favorizes women over men when it comes to divorce. So no agreement needed, she might win anyways.

There were a lot of changes in this, but still it is like a gambling which judge you will get and that can heavily modify the end result. The problem is that if cannot come to an agreement - 50% of custody is out of the game, because the judge will conclude that the parents cannot communicate and agree on things.

Living together while separated....well it is mentally and emotionally the most unhealthy situation I've ever been. Our communication reduced to good morning-good night. She does not communicate or interact with me only with the children and treats me like ghost or a roommate. She reduced her contribution to the household to a very low amount (like 250 USD - and that is for the mortgage, car loan, utilities and household incl. grocery). Even here, this is a ridiculous amount, and she expects me to cover the rest since I have high salary. Can you imagine she pays only 250 USD to live in a nice family house with big garden in the suburbs incl. food and everything. and she still visits her AP! good business, right? you need some really serious sociopath tendencies to live like that.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 10:23 PM, Wednesday, June 7th]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8794316
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Dennylast ( member #78522) posted at 12:09 PM on Monday, June 12th, 2023

Hang in the Max. Thinking of you and hoping you are ok.

posts: 150   ·   registered: Mar. 17th, 2021
id 8794909
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 12:31 PM on Monday, June 12th, 2023

she maybe hopes that the practice of our law system favorizes women over men when it comes to divorce.

This is the second most popular statement about divorce made on this site I think.

The MOST popular statement about divorce made on this site is slightly different:

hopes that the practice of our law system favorizes men over women when it comes to divorce.

The former statement is usually posted by men, the later is usually posted by women. Go figure...

Madmax – the law is what the law is and it tends to be fair.

The divorce is a consequence of her actions, her decisions and your decisions. It would help you a lot and let you break out of feeling victimized if you were simply to accept the process and then try to control it’s speed. I for one think you have power to do that by wielding the threat of making this a divorce about infidelity.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:32 PM, Monday, June 12th]

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12407   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8794910
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 9:30 AM on Monday, June 19th, 2023

update:

With help of a PI I revealed the identity of the OBS. I've contacted her on facebook and described the affair and offered the opportunity to contact me if she had any questions. I got a message after a week which a bit confused me.
It was like this: "Dear M, thank you for the information. In the future please do not contact me in any form. Regards."
My first thought was that the message was caught by theAP and he replied like this to get rid of me. But can it be the a wounded OBS reacted like the above? That she does not want to have any form of contact with me after I revealed her the affair? She does not want to know? What are the chances?

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8795917
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 10:44 AM on Monday, June 19th, 2023

Mad

This is a very typical response.
IMHO it’s not your role to convince the OMW or to ensure that she whacks the s@it out of her husband. All you can do is inform and then let her deal with it in any way she wants.
I find the week’s wait as indication of that the message got to her. If her husband had been monitoring her social media, it would have been IMHO a more instantaneous response.

If I read between the lines and in the pieces of your story (this has never been completely answered despite being asked…):
>The OM was your WW direct superior
>The HR incident had nothing to do with bribes but rather the affair. Companies (esp larger) are very clear that managers are not allowed to have close personal relationships with their staff. They seldom (if ever) fire or formally reprimand the subordinate for fear of wrongful dismissal charges.
>The manager can get fired for things like this. Very seldom for a first incident and even more seldom is the relationship cited as the reason for the dismissal. Normally the managers (OM) supervisor takes him aside and "suggests" he find a new job.
>Sine OM quit I’m guessing a) not the first time and/or b) expenses for the affair charged on company card.


Since you two are divorcing then the only role I see for OM right now is as a lever to pull if your wife isn’t fair in the divorce proceedings. Is she still delaying? If so, then the fear of you filing for divorce because of infidelity and having OM name on an official paper might convince her to speed things up. Please – if you use this tactic don’t do it to make her accept an unfair deal.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12407   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8795919
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 12:57 PM on Monday, June 19th, 2023

(1) The OM was indeed the direct superior of my wife. The bribery thing was told me by my wife one morning (after 2 weeks of DDAY maybe) that she made a mistake and the HR contacted her boss (the OM) and investigation has started. Maybe it was true and not really connects to the affair. I've have never ever heard about what happened to this bribery case, because afterwards she did not inform me in any way. Then, 2 weeks later, the company fired her boss (and another coworker), reason was never disclosed. My wife told me it was office politics. (remember, at that point of time she lied about the identity of her AP. ("it was a guy from another department") Later I figured out that he was her boss. So she could have easily lied about the reasons of firing as well.).

(2) Regarding to informing the OBS. So I sent the message on fb last Tuesday and the message indicator was empty circle with a tick meaning fb delivered the message but the receiving side did not pick up the message. THIS WAS FOR A WEEK. can you imagine that someone does not read an fb message for week? (I also tried to contact her on linkedin, she never replied). and then I received the above very short (and a bit strange) message this morning..

In the meantime after waiting for 3 days - last Friday I asked my friend who lives nearby to visit the workplace of the OBS and hand over a letter detailing the affair in person. The reception told my friend that she wont come down...because she does not know my friend... my friend then left a message that there is an urgent an important personal matter and left her his phone number to call. She never called....and never texted WHY? did she already know??

I dont think I should do anything more in this matter. Yes, maybe my message was captured by the AP. or is just a normal a reaction of an OBS... I cannot decide, but I defintely dont want to harrass her anymore.

(3) Regarding to my divorce offer. Even though 50%-50% has been accepted for the child custody, and also accepted that costs for the children will be evenly distributed monthly, she still demands alimony. (because my salary is higher and the children should be provided with the same quaiity of life regardless of the salaries of the parents). AND even though I offered him a big sum of money to move out, she first wants to see the end result for the asset distribution before making any decisions regarding who moves..

[This message edited by madmax76 at 12:59 PM, Monday, June 19th]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8795934
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