SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have been doing a lot of thinking lately regarding Reconciliation and my journey on this site. I have been here for well over a decade and have seen a lot of people come and go. The traffic patterns tend to ebb and flow. There is always the polarization of pro D vs. pro R. Those things are consistent. I have noticed, however, that the Reconciliation Forum has slowed and the Wayward Forum has almost come to a stop. I have to ask myself why.

I have gone to obvious answers such as Covid and a general change in tone globally. People are less patient, more angry making compassion a difficult thing to dole out, particularly with people that arrive with their head in their ass. So is it, are we driving them away in droves? Or is it something else?

The thought occurred to me when HT and I were having a discussion about it that the simple advice of not sharing this site could play a part.

HT found this site first. I am grateful to him that he shared it with me almost immediately. When I came here the amount of information was overwhelming, but it provided me a place to start to untangle the mess my life was in. I don’t know how many times I have said that I owe my marriage to SI. I know I can not count it on my fingers or toes anymore and it never stops being true. This site provided me the ability to see things through a lens that no book or therapist could provide me because the advice and support was coming from people that had experienced similar things that I was. This site, at the same time offered HT the same. We were both receiving the support we needed from our own perspectives from people who knew what we were feeling.

We were not alone. Multiple couples were part of the site. They would either heal or move on, but it was common for both to be members.

Every now and then there would be some drama as people would get invested in the story, read the BS side and pull information over to the Wayward to attempt to put their feet to the fire. Over the past few years that practice has become more and more popular. Unfortunately, it has led to thinking that this site should no longer be shared and this needs to be the safe place for the BS.

This site is unique because it should be safe for both the BS and the WS. It is unique in that it provides support for WS members to work towards being a healthy person/partner. It is also unique in the fact that no matter what road you take out of infidelity, there is a place for you be it General, Reconciliation, Wayward, or ICR. Not to mention, the site was created by a reconciling husband and wife.

There is so much frustration regarding waywards not getting it, yet people are told not to share the site with their wayward. I personally was one of those waywards. I needed this site. I have encountered many other couples throughout the years that also needed this site. I have witnessed many successful R’s because both were members here.

So I wonder, how do we get back to that? Why are we discouraging people who want to R to join?

Hi WOES great post.

First I want to say that I have and will continue to praise this site for literally saving my life at a time when I thought joy would be elusive forever. I could watch the journeys of those before me and share in the gut wrenching pain of those on a pathway with a similar timeline to mine. As well my WS is on here. Together we found this site invaluable as a gut check to our then current feelings and struggles. It worked great for us.

I learned that R or D was okay. I learned that despite my resistance, I needed to work on me. And my WS learned that he needed to really do the work .

That said, I am finding myself a bit disgruntled with some trends I see here on SI. Namely, I get really frustrated by:

* Trolls who come here with sensational stories to goad the folks who are truly in pain

* Mean spirited folks who are lashing out rather than gently putting forth an honest perspective that may be difficult to hear for the recipient

* As you mention not having enough WS's to really help all who are here

But mostly, I am truly frustrated by a select few who have been around and are using this site to feed their need for praise while at the same time hurting others by not being honest in their posts. It is so offensive to me that it stops me from reading and posting many times.

It is one thing to not know or understand the depth of impact your actions had on others. It is quite another to know it and then purposely continue to deceive and hurt others who may be reading here in their worst hour of need.

My empathy meter goes sky high when I know others will be hurt by someone here rather than helped. There is enough pain to go around with infidelity. We should strive for honest and forthright communications, not perpetuating the lies that got us all here in the first place.

I even hesitated to write this for fear that it would turn ugly by speaking my truth. And then I realized I need to honor my own message, speak it, and ask for respectful dialog in return.

Thanks for opening this topic, but ... yeah, but....

How about the unremorseful WSes who use SI to increase their own sense of over-entitlement? How about the WSes who use SI to gather info they use against their BSes? How about BSes who attack WSes and BSes who don't make instant decisions? Or are those dangers over-blown?

And I keep remembering telling a BS to have her H post, and the SOB lied so much that he got lots of sympathy here while he was abusing his W on a daily basis....

I told my W about SI soon after I joined. She said she would leave it to me as my safe place. I think that meant, 'You use it. No way am I going to open myself up to possible attacks.' (But she was in twice weekly therapy.)

Two years later, she wanted some support I wasn't willing to give, so I told her to sign up. Our rule was that we would not read each other's threads, and we'd skip over each other's posts (although I knew that would not be perfectly followed, since my practice was to read for content first, and then identify the writer). I asked about the responses to her first post - 'a little harsh,' she said.

Maybe the key is for the BS and WS to know what they want their WS to get.

Reading is not magic. Posting is not magic. Change is what will make a difference to R & D. So, if the BS wants their WS to effect a particular change, maybe that's the time to say, 'Go to SI. I'm not willing to work with you on that until you've started to change.'

You're right, though. We used to have a number of WSes who posted frequently and gave a lot of help.

OTOH, we've had some WSes who posted on R and who got attacked very unfairly, at least IMO....

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:56 PM, Saturday, November 13th]

The world is still upside down — some places are still dealing with the pandemic or the economic fallout from it, and I do think folks are under extra duress. I imagine folks under duress would have less patience for working through betrayal, be it a BS or WS and they may be quietly suffering or moving on in their own way.

I love SI, but I am still someone who never imagined sharing my pain and sorrow on an Internet forum. It may be extra difficult if both people are working from home or can’t get any daycare help.

All those thoughts aside, my wife never joined SI, but it was a part of her recovery.

Once I leaned into the idea I wanted to try R, my take was no secrets — none from me, none from her.

So, I told her about SI.

Then I asked to read the boards here. Co-founder Deeply Scared was still a force on the board here at the time, and her posts helped my wife a lot. As did other posts from BS, describing my pain better than I did.

I think it’s a big reason SI is so different and so helpful, it’s about the WS owning their choices versus the fault free concept that "infidelity just happens."

Once my wife understood that, it helped her, it helped her figure out her own issues and it helped me and eventually helped us.

It may have helped others if my wife could have posted here too, but sharing her feelings AT ALL, is something she is still working on at home, much less with the world.

Ultimately, she was an SI lurker, who really gained insight and I was always glad we both gained help from here.

My husband knows about SI. I have to be honest, he doesn’t love this place. He thinks it triggers me more than it helps me. To be fair, I was triggered a LOT by posts and comments in the first year. However, I needed to work through all of that, and I’m glad I did. Now I don’t have the same reaction to triggering posts.

I thought about having him post here on the wayward side, but I ultimately decided I wanted this to be my safe place. I didn’t want him reading what I had to say, especially because I wasn’t sure I had it in me to reconcile. I needed to share openly about that without worrying about him seeing it.

Plus, the couples I’ve seen in the past two years that have both been members, it didn’t seem like it was all that beneficial. Turned more into a "he said she said" type thing with people taking sides instead of finding some resolution outside of divorce.

I think it’d be interesting to see a couple come along and both find the help they need here. I just haven’t witnessed that in my 2 short years.

Thanks for the discussion and SI has saved my M regardless of what Mrs Tanner thinks. Once I trusted her I shared the site with her and she joined, I do not know her username and she doesn’t know mine. I want this to be my place to share open and honest feelings without her. She spent one day reading the Wayward side and decided everyone here was mean and unsupportive. I did not try to change her mind. She has also tried to get me away from here because it did trigger me early on. I would be so angry and pissed off after reading here. I needed every bit of it. I appreciate this place and the availability for the WS to come and heal also. Just not sure it should be done as a couple.

I believe when a WS does not chose to be a part of this site it does not necessarily mean they are not doing the work. It depends on their reaction to the BS being a part of SI. When I first joined my H was not happy - I think it was guilt on his part - I would not even be aware of this site if he had not cheated. He was also afraid it was just one big pity party - people just stuck in victim mode and he wasn't sure how that was going to help me. When I explained the different forums (Stupid Picture Friday played a big part in our R - but that is for another post!) and he saw how much SI was helping me - he came to understand it was a safe place for me to share my feelings when I felt I had no one else to turn to. But-I know he would never become a member - that is just not his nature. I respect that because I see the work he has done thru IC and his willingness to listen to me when I do want to discuss something I have read on this site. I respect there are other ways for WS to work on themselves and if being part of SI is not for them I can respect that.

I even hesitated to write this for fear that it would turn ugly by speaking my truth. And then I realized I need to honor my own message, speak it, and ask for respectful dialog in return.

I am glad you posted. Your opinion is valued and a respectful dialogue is exactly what I am hoping to gain.

How about the unremorseful WSes who use SI to increase their own sense of over-entitlement? How about the WSes who use SI to gather info they use against their BSes? How about BSes who attack WSes and BSes who don't make instant decisions? Or are those dangers over-blown?

Unremorseful WS’s typically do not stick around very long because of the poor pay off. I admit there might be some that use posting as a tool for manipulation, however the veterans have typically done a decent job of calling them on that. It is not always ideal and I certainly don’t think it is for everyone or even necessary for R.

OTOH, we've had some WSes who posted on R and who got attacked very unfairly, at least IMO....

This is what I am hoping to change by discussing this topic. That, and getting more waywards to feel comfortable becoming members here in general.

Once I leaned into the idea I wanted to try R, my take was no secrets — none from me, none from her.

This was our approach. We never posted anything we had not already discussed. I’m glad your wife was able to gain something from SI even without actively posting.

the couples I’ve seen in the past two years that have both been members, it didn’t seem like it was all that beneficial. Turned more into a "he said she said" type thing with people taking sides instead of finding some resolution outside of divorce.

It didn’t use to be this way, which is another reason I wanted to bring up this topic. One of the guidelines restricts members from bringing information from one thread for discussion in another. Unfortunately, we have had some members that will disregard it which causes more problems than not. Each member here, whether a BS, WS, or MH should be given the support they need from their own POV. Most people respect that right. I understand it may be difficult to see the benefit. I can assure you that during my time here, I personally "know" many couples that have, myself included.

Once I trusted her I shared the site with her and she joined, I do not know her username and she doesn’t know mine. I want this to be my place to share open and honest feelings without her.

I think this is a valid option. A lot of couple have come up with ground rules that work for them.

I believe when a WS does not chose to be a part of this site it does not necessarily mean they are not doing the work.

I don’t disagree with this either. I don’t think that SI is for everyone. What I am trying to figure out is how we made this shift and how can we get back to a place that WS and Reconciling couples can feel safe here again.

I’m not at all surprised that WS don’t like their BS to come here because of triggers. Of course there are triggers, but those triggers are feelings that need to be processed and anger is the first natural reaction.

I appreciate all the feedback.

As BS,SI was an absolute godsend in some of my darkest hours. Like a Swiss army knife, it always seemed to have just what I needed in any particular moment. One thing that was instrumental in my journey especially early on, was the Wayward section. It afforded me a glimpse into a world that was completely foreign to me. It also helped me see what a truly remorseful WS looked and acted like. Unfortunately, it shed a light on just how my own WS failed to measure up, ultimately resulting in my decision to D. (Best choice ever!)...

If there was one shortcoming of SI, it is that there are too few WS's who post, but that is understandable for a variety of reasons. I just wish it weren't so.

Although I am soludly on my road to healing, I find this site to be a staple of my life. I read often looking for hope and healing in others.i have followed threads with the same zeal that I would root for family members, struggling with adversity. Their stories give me hope. I'm still short on that these days...

The funny thing about my experience with SI is that it has become my benchmark of wisdom and understanding when it comes to infinity. I literally measure everything I see or hear against the aggregate wisdom of this place.

First of all, the entire universe of social media has become increasingly nasty.

Mix a nasty etherworld with the subject of infidelity and the propensity to be incredibly harsh is magnified.

Add to that the number of people who pounce on the newly arrived with extremely judgmental, conclusory, and often condescending remarks that read, to me, more like vicarious justification for their own choices - or the choices they wish they would or could make - and it is small wonder that attrition would be a growing problem. If the first post a new member makes draws out the people most inclined to point out how insufficiently humiliated they are or how inadequately contrite they are, it is no wonder at all that they would not only hit the eject button but also that they would never recruit their spouse to the page even if they personally stick around for a bit.

You want more members, and more couples, and more reconciliation? Clamp down on the people who persistently make viscerally painful comments to new arrivals, comments that don’t seem to me to be the kind of helpful and constructive comments that would lead a person to disclose this place to their spouse. I for one would NEVER in a million years suggest to my WW to visit this site, and that’s in spite of the fact that the most helpful stuff I’ve read here often is posted by someone else’s WW.

If you pay attention, you’ll see that there is a pack of them who hit up a certain type of story every single time, and their first order of business seems to be to put the full court press on the new member to join their club.

OTOH, we've had some WSes who posted on R and who got attacked very unfairly, at least IMO....

R is my forum of choice. I welcome and value the contributions of a remorseful WS. For me personally I have been helped greatly by a few that have stayed here. On the other side I get frustrated with the angry BS that attack both WS and BS unfairly.

Add to that the number of people who pounce on the newly arrived

When I got here I wanted things back the way they were, like most BS in shock. My W was called a whore, a predator, a liar and cheater. To me those are fighting words and not very helpful to someone in so much pain. I made the rule to never do that, I would never call someone’s spouse a name, I will say there is likely more to the story, your spouse has betrayed you. Then the BH is told “grow a pair” “man up”. Again not helpful. How about “I was in your shoes and regret doing the same thing you are doing, here’s why”, etc. I firmly believe in calling out bullshit, but not attacking anyone.

Clamp down on the people who persistently make viscerally painful comments to new arrivals, comments that don’t seem to me to be the kind of helpful and constructive comments that would lead a person to disclose this place to their spouse.

I hear you,

I ask you, the SI community to please help us by contacting a moderator when members step over the line. We are happy to look into it.

There is so much frustration regarding waywards not getting it, yet people are told not to share the site with their wayward. I personally was one of those waywards. I needed this site. I have encountered many other couples throughout the years that also needed this site. I have witnessed many successful R’s because both were members here.

So I wonder, how do we get back to that? Why are we discouraging people who want to R to join?

My question is... what's stopping a WS from googling resources to heal themselves/help their partner/save their relationship from infidelity? I would imagine that they have the same internet/resources at their disposal that their BS does, so if they wanted to find a site like SI, what's preventing them from doing so?

Early on (probably within 3 or 4 months of finding SI), I recommended that my wife take a look at it. I didn't tell her my username, just that she should look into visiting.

Her first (and as far as I know, only) trip was not to the Wayward forum, but to JFO.

That day (and a few times since then), she has commented on the angry, "hateful" responses that she read through in JFO. She even brought it up with our current MC 6 or 8 months ago. Her comment then was that it "obviously isn't a Christian site." I held my tongue because it was all I could do to not say "Well, it isn't exactly 'Christian behavior' that we're dealing with." My filter was definitely working that day.

So, that first "experience" for her has basically kept her out of SI since the beginning. I know that there are guidelines and recommendations posted that the WS really needs to stay away from JFO (and it makes perfect sense). I do think that the "burn the witch" mob can get pretty rowdy and intense at times. I've seen it directed towards others and, quite frankly, towards myself & Mrs. Cap more than once.

When I jumped in with both feet at SI, it seemed that there were a large number of folks who consistently passed along the "take what you need and leave the rest" advice.

I don't see that as often these days.

As to why the R forum and the Wayward forum have slowed, anyone's guess would be as good as mine.

Folks do have a much shorter fuse these days, especially with those who are really just a bunch of anonymous strangers on the internet. Overall, I see it as most likely being just a subtle shift culturally. I'd be interested to know if there were demographics on the "typical" SI member, particularly in age and location. Is there a specific generation that finds SI more useful? We can be assured (sadly) that infidelity hasn't curtailed itself in the last 3-5 years.

Wish I had the ability to do some of the analytics behind the slowdown, WOEZ. Would certainly make for interesting data.

I told my WW about SI when I was comfortable with that, and showed it to her…even sent links to some threads I thought she could benefit from.

In spite of that she has never to my knowledge ventured here unprompted, so I guess that tells me how seriously she takes R.

ETA - I sincerely wish she would embrace the community here and be open to the guidance it can provide, our lives would be much better for it.

[This message edited by OrdinaryDude at 1:28 AM, November 14th (Sunday)]

My question is... what's stopping a WS from googling resources to heal themselves/help their partner/save their relationship from infidelity? I would imagine that they have the same internet/resources at their disposal that their BS does, so if they wanted to find a site like SI, what's preventing them from doing so?

Nothing. In fact there are far better resources online for healing from infidelity (I can think of at least one site that I would easily recommend reading/interacting with before starting on SI).

I was lucky to have had a year of therapy before finding SI (and luckier for finding the other online resources). And I still fell into the normal social media trap of groupthink and chasing validation - as many people here do, whether WS or BS.

Which is not to say that SI doesn't have value. It does and I've managed to rummage through SI enough to be able to take what I need. But in my opinion the majority of interactions here (these days) are either long winded tirades of "researched" opinions or one-size-fits-all snappy self-validation comebacks.

In the end, SI is anonymous, which limits its usefulness considerably. I think it will always be far more beneficial for someone to seek help/support in the real world. But if they can't, then coming into a place like this - look for the posters that own their statements rather than those that make inane generalizations.

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 10:54 AM, Sunday, November 14th]

WW here.

If the first post a new member makes draws out the people most inclined to point out how insufficiently humiliated they are or how inadequately contrite they are, it is no wonder at all that they would not only hit the eject button but also that they would never recruit their spouse to the page even if they personally stick around for a bit.

This is more true than you think. If someone comes on at 1st and obviously has their head up their ass (as I certainly did), they're treated to the pitchfork and torch crowd. It kept me from posting for a long while on personal stuff, and certainly didn't help my BH who would read my threads, see the reactions, and then ask himself why he isn't D'ing me right now. He certainly would have been in his rights, but thank GOD he has much stronger values around commitment or we wouldn't be where we are right now in our process. His hurt and pain over my posting (and airing dirty laundry as I was trying to deal with my anger and hurt and resentment) and the "burn the witchers" meant I ended up walking away until I was in a better headspace.

Now that I am, it's still hard to post. I ask myself if I even have the "right" to post as a WW in anywhere else other than wayward side and if I even have any value to the BS's struggling with their own codependency, enabling or hurt or lack of assertiveness in their own situation. I found in mine that my own behaviors in those areas led me to justify my A against my BH. I see the same patterns in a lot of BS's in their struggle to deal with their WS's A and fall out. But as a WW, I am very aware that I could be called out on any BS's thread where I try to offer my prospective from my own struggles.

2x4's may be needed in JFO and the D forum, but I don't see their value in the R forum. From my perspective, I've needed 2x4's during my posts on the Wayward. However, unless they came from fellow WS's or MH's, I found them hurtful and offensive. If we could change the posting rules, ESPECIALLY for the first 3 threads for WS's to WS's or MH's only, I think that would be really helpful in retaining the WS's who make their way here. I find that there are quite a few veteran WS's whose advice I value greatly and whose introspection and support on other threads have been a great aid in my own healing. Mainly, it's the hope that I can get better and can have hope for a successful R or a healed soul if D.

Another note (and then I'm done- I write novels... ). I've found it massively unhelpful when a WS comes to the Wayward forum to discuss a specific topic and other BS's jump on them because they're not discussing the topic THEY deem most important. Often as a WS, I've had a specific chunk of work I was focusing on (otherwise I get overwhelmed with the amount of work I need to do). These WS's are likely similar- needing help with a particular aspect of their work at that time. Unless a BS can directly address that topic, I think it best to recommend the WS's on the thread to gently ask about the main work we have as WS's- accountability and ownership. This can be done in a PM to the WS veterans we have. This way, the WS OP gets a good reminder of the main overarching program for their healing in a way they can accept and digest.

In the end, all people who come here (aside from trolls or WS's not interested in ANY work) deserve respect and kindness. All humans do and it's in too short a supply. I have found this site to be enormously helpful in my journey, but believe these improvements are necessary if we're to attract and maintain other waywards like me interested in doing the work.

if they wanted to find a site like SI, what's preventing them from doing so?

Nothing is preventing them from researching it themselves. As a matter of fact, many WS have found this site and done the work on their own volition. Over a decade ago, I had no idea that a forum like this even existed, so searching for it would not even had occurred to me. These days, however I imagine we are pretty easy to find.

Wish I had the ability to do some of the analytics behind the slowdown, WOEZ. Would certainly make for interesting data.

It would indeed! Unfortunately not feasible.

I ask myself if I even have the "right" to post as a WW in anywhere else other than wayward side and if I even have any value to the BS's struggling with their own codependency, enabling or hurt or lack of assertiveness in their own situation.

Yes, you absolutely have a right to post outside of Wayward as long as it’s not in JFO or on a vent thread. I believe, as others have mentioned that having waywards here can be of value to offer a unique glimpse of the other side.

2x4's may be needed in JFO and the D forum, but I don't see their value in the R forum. From my perspective, I've needed 2x4's during my posts on the Wayward. However, unless they came from fellow WS's or MH's, I found them hurtful and offensive.

It is actually a guideline violation for BS members to give 2x4’s to WS in the Wayward Forum and we did tweet the guidelines for the Reconciliation Forum to improve the support given there, as well. I do apologize if you feel that hasn’t been moderated well recently. I do take responsibility for that. On the other hand, I can not be here 24/7 so again I ask all members to contact us when you feel intervention is needed. Unfortunately some 2x4’s are up to interpretation depending on how new and raw a member is, but that is something I can certainly keep in mind.

In regards to limiting BS interaction for newcomers, every WS has to take an additional step to remove the stop sign from a post. The stop sign is the default. By removing it, the Wayward has made a decision to welcome BS input. The stop sign can always be added if the OP changes their mind. We have some amazing BS members that post in Wayward and I want to give them credit. Without their input right now, that forum would be a ghost town.

Again, I appreciate everyone’s feedback. This site means the world to me. I want to do what I can to make it great for you too.

To kind of dovetail on FD and MIG posts, one of the biggest drawbacks is the mob mentality that pervades SI. There really isn’t (according to most) multiple paths out of infidelity. Unless you do this, this and this, you are often vilified and chased off the boards. Aside from my own experiences, I’ve seen many waywards post a couple of times, get virtually pummeled and then they disappear.

It does no one any good when that happens. Unfortunately that’s the nature of an anonymous internet forum. You don’t have to witness the results of your words.

I’ve always found that saying "Take what you need and leave the rest" to be a big steaming pile of excrement. Words can hurt, despite what we were told as children. A little kindness can go a long way. Most folks who arrive here aren’t in an emotional state to handle the TWYNALTR malarkey.