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Newest Member: onthefence2024

Reconciliation :
A different kind of DDay

Topic is Sleeping.

 Hannah47 (original poster member #80116) posted at 1:11 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

As some of you know, my husband lied and minimized for 5 years after DDay, then he put me through 1 year of trickle-truth. During those years there were generally two points of contention between us. One was the truth about the betrayal – something that I got in the end, but in a very damaging way (ofc it’s possible he’s still lying about some things). In this post I want to focus on the second one.

The second one was about one specific need that I had. I needed him to feel for me what he felt for the OW, only 10 times more. I needed him to pursue me / to court me / to date me. I made my wish / need clear to him many times after DDay. Perhaps this sounds silly but let me explain. I apologize for the length – this is very painful for me to write, and at the moment I don’t have the strength to think about the reader. I am truly humbled by the kindness of anyone who will read this, thank you for your time.

I learned about how he felt for the OW only during the 2022 – the year of TT. However, that was only a confirmation of what my gut was telling me since DDay. I’m not blind – in the weeks after DDay I read their messages, I read their work emails (unfortunately, I didn’t see their work chats, and ofc I didn’t know what they were talking about in person), I knew about some of his behavior when it comes to her (I learned more during the year of TT), and I know a thing or two about how people act when they have feelings for someone. He labeled it as "a crush", but from his description + all evidence / indicators + the duration of the betrayal, I’d say it is closer to what we mean when we say someone is "in love". We can label it "infatuation", "new relationship energy", "limerence", "being in love" – the label doesn’t really matter. You know that feeling when you like someone, when you find yourself thinking about them a lot, when you are drawn to them, when you want to spend more time with them, when you are excited about spending time with them, doing things with them, talking with them, when stuff reminds you of them, when you enjoy their company, when you want them to like you, when you want them to see you as a potential mate, when you are attracted to them even though you are aware of their physical "flaws" (or you choose to ignore them)… That’s how he felt.

He was careful not to reveal how he feels directly. After all, he was in a long-term relationship with me + he didn’t know whether she feels the same way. However, he was pursuing her indirectly (flirting, compliments, gifts, asking out for coffee or drinks, doing stuff for her, providing emotional support, and so on). There was one direct attempt that I know about, when he got very drunk, but either she’s very stupid and didn’t get it, or she was uncomfortable and decided to ignore it. Here's the thing – she was not interested in him that way. We spent hours analyzing her behavior and words, and we came to the conclusion he overblew it. He built up a fantasy in his head and saw something where there was nothing. At best, she was enjoying attention without any intention. The way she acted with him was how she normally acts with people, and my husband (boyfriend at that time) thought he’s special and it means she’s into him. Nevertheless, the way he felt about her was very real to him. By his own admission – if she was interested, if she had made any direct moves, he would have an affair with her. He still claims he wouldn’t leave me for her, he wouldn’t leave me to start a relationship with her. However, having in mind how he felt about me – resentment, negative sentiment override, falling out of love with me (stuff that was fueled by the betrayal) – I have reasons to believe he was monkey branching.

Anyway, DDay happened, and in the following months he shut that down and decided to commit to me. He went about it the wrong way (lying and minimizing instead of being remorseful), but that’s another topic. Like I said, this post is about my need for him to feel for me the way that he felt for her, only 10 times more. I wanted him to pursue me and to feel and demonstrate the same level of excitement. I needed that for at least 3 reasons:

1. I felt that was missing in our relationship during the betrayal. I felt his distance. I felt neglected, I was well aware his affection towards me has diminished. I asked him about it, he’d usually say nothing is wrong with us, it’s just the life, and I believed him. When I found out the real reason, naturally I wanted that back.

2. Being "in love" is very important to me. I am well aware of the "chemicals in the brain" story, and how that doesn’t last long. However, I felt like that for my husband years and years after we became a couple. I felt like that for him during the betrayal, and after. Hell, I was well aware of what he did to me, and yet I felt freaking butterflies getting ready for a date with him. Either there’s something wrong with my body chemistry, or maybe just maybe the story is not so accurate. You see, I believe that after the initial chemical thing, being "in love" becomes a choice. You choose to be "in love" with someone by cherishing that person, by focusing on the positives, by being grateful. In a way, you allow yourself to get hyped about that person, you make sure to often think about some nice memories, maybe daydream a little, try new things, create new memories, and so on. It’s what they call "keeping the spark alive". Yes, I was extremely hurt by the betrayal, but I chose to put that aside for a night, and to just be excited about having a date with the sexiest man alive. Being excited about your partner is important to me. I know that marriage is much more than that, but for me, as long as you "keep the fire burning", everything else comes naturally, and easily.

3. Probably the most important reason – I wanted to reclaim what I lost, and she got. I felt that is an important part of my healing, and healing of our relationship in general. A) My dear SI members, there is absolutely nothing that woman did or had, that I didn’t do or have million times more and better. He gave her his affection for free, he was getting nothing out of it. This became especially apparent after DDay, when it became clear that everything he thought he was getting was fake – it was in his head only. On the other hand, I gave him so much of the real stuff and somehow, that wasn’t enough for him to feel that way towards me. I needed that changed – I needed him to appreciate me and my efforts, and to respond in an appropriate manner. B) I was terrified he stayed with me for the wrong reasons, that he settled, that he stayed because she didn’t want him, that I’m a second choice. I needed more than words to believe he stayed for the right reasons. I needed to see he’s excited about me in the same way, but 10 times more.

During these 6 years he did a poor job demonstrating that excitement about me. I didn’t feel pursued. We did have some dates, but way too little of them. They often felt forced, he wasn’t relaxed with me the way he was with her. There was flirting and compliments, but way too little, and they didn’t really seem genuine. He had troubles initiating things, making plans, put in some effort. He’d always claim this has nothing to do with the way he feels about me, and he gave me a bunch of excuses. In the beginning it was just weird, we just need some time and practice. Then the thing was that we fight and talk about the betrayal too much. Then it was the pandemics, and we can’t go anywhere on a date. Then he has performance anxiety and fear of failure which block him from relaxing. Then it was the guilt he feels about the betrayal. Then it was he's just not good at showing emotions, that doesn't mean he doesn't have them. Then it was not knowing how to "win me" because he feels he didn’t do much to get me in the first place (he claims he tried, but nothing works). And so on.

Then the other day he finally told me the truth – he’s not pursuing me, taking me out on dates and all, because he doesn’t feel that way about me. That is, he doesn’t feel excited about me, or the time spent with me. So, there’s no motivation. The last time he felt like that was with the OW. He claims he lost those feelings for me even before he met her, but I have strong reasons to believe that’s the result of him rewriting our relationship history. And he didn’t regain those feelings during these 6 years after DDay.

Just to be clear – he claims he absolutely loves me, and he is 100% committed to me. He even claims he cares more about me and my happiness, than about himself and his happiness. He doesn’t want to divorce me. I guess he’s just not "in love", if by "being in love" you mean what I described in the beginning of this post. You know, the way he felt for the OW.

How do I feel about all of this? Well, the short answer is:
1. Someone please kill me now.
2. I’m still alive? Well, I’m heartbroken beyond words. This is truly like a new DDay. I can’t sleep, I can’t eat. I want to crawl into a hole and just die.
3. I’m pissed at him for deceiving me for years in yet another way.

I asked him to move out. I think he’s not taking me seriously. He thinks we should try to work it out, we should put in more effort, and maybe the excitement will come back. We?!! Maybe?!! My dear SI members, I know there’s nothing I can do about this, as the problem is not me. I’m a great gal, and I offer a lot – mentally and physically. I can just refuse to be treated like this. He claims the real problem is the baggage we have (the betrayal), that’s what’s preventing him from feeling that way about me. Well, the baggage will always be here. Perhaps I’m wrong, but if I, the betrayed one, can exert control over the baggage, and not let it control me, so can he. I guess the Force is stronger with me. Or he’s just not that into me.

He delivered the "revelation" in a nonchalant zero-empathy way. As if it’s not a big deal, I should just accept it, pretend it didn’t happen, and maybe one day he will be excited about me again. I told him my only wish and hope is that he will "fall in love" with someone in the future, as I find the idea that the OW might be the last woman he felt like that about absolutely insulting.

Anyway, I apologize again for the long post, I wanted to get as much of it as I can out of my system, as I now need to pick myself up again. As some of you know, I got a serious medical diagnosis just 2 months ago, I’ve been through hell due to that, so the timing is just awesome! *sarcasm* I’m gonna take some time off from SI, I need all my energy focused on me. I also feel I’d be very biased in my replies to others, and I’d just tell everyone to divorce, it’s not worth it. Thank you all for everything that you do here, I learned a lot!

Btw. if you allow just a little bit more of self-pity, as I need to get that out of my system as well. Also, this is something I still haven’t processed properly. I have already written a little about it here, it’s a long story that deserves a post of its own (I actually have it written down, just didn’t have the strength to post it). Due to the betrayal and false reconciliation, we don’t have kids. Nevertheless, as long as we were together, there was hope we will sort through this crap and have a baby. Yes, I’m close to 40, but you all know that today that doesn’t mean it’s too late. There was hope. When I picked my username here, I was guided by that hope. Hannah is the name I’d give to my baby daughter. And now it’s becoming very real she will always stay just a dream. The end.

Fate whispers to her, "You cannot withstand the storm."
She whispers back, "I am the storm."

posts: 371   ·   registered: Mar. 21st, 2022
id 8790565

zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 2:26 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

I'm so sorry. I can't imagine how much that must have hurt.


"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

posts: 3595   ·   registered: Aug. 25th, 2010
id 8790592

swmnbc ( member #49344) posted at 2:51 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

Oh Hannah. I'm sorry.

He says he wants to stay married but not go on dates because you killed the magic by not liking/accepting/rugsweeping his infidelity? Oh please. That's just a tactic by WS who don't want to do the work to get the BS to "stand down" and swallow their pain. I'm glad you've called his bluff.

Infidelity or not, we all deserve a partner who cherishes us, who wants to spend time with us. I wish that for you and all of us.

posts: 1843   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2015
id 8790610

Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 3:08 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

It doubles the tragedy when a WS sits on the sidelines after all of the damage they chose to cause.

R always takes BOTH people to want it — I think you did all you could Hannah.

That said, as sad as this is, I see a tremendous amount of strength in your update. You are standing up for you and what you need. Not everyone is tough enough to do so, and as with your diagnosis, you are a badass as you confront the massive amount of adversity. That may be little comfort now, but somewhere along the line, you will appreciate how strong you are and how you refuse to be treated so poorly.

Take care of you, be kind to yourself, and heal up!

Married 36+ years, together 41+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived.
M Restored
"It is better to conquer our grief than to deceive it." — Seneca

posts: 4719   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: Home.
id 8790620

Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 3:19 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

I’m so so sorry Hannah! You definitely deserve better, you deserve a partner who, in the light of this mess, would have felt that excitement and desperation at the thought of losing you, would have moved mountains and cherish every moment in your presence seeing it as the massive gift it truly is.

Lots of hugs from me!

Dday - 27th September 2017

posts: 1850   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: UK
id 8790626

BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 3:35 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

Echoing the others. You are the prize, dear lady. And takes two FULLY COMMITTED people to R. We have after said here that often more damage is done in how the WS behaves after DDay. I think that is the case here.

You deserve better. And 40 is young. Save yourself.

Me: BS 57 (49 on d-day)Him: *who cares ;-) *. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

posts: 6025   ·   registered: Sep. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Northern CA
id 8790654

sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 3:42 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

I am with you, Hannah. One of my requirements for R was that my W treat me better than she treated ow. My view of being in love and maintaining that feeling matches yours. I fell in love with her in 1965, and that never left me, because I kept it alive, as you did.

For me the big 3 questions were: 1) Do you love me? 2) Are you in love with me? (That actually meant, 'Do you desire me sexually?) 3) Will you be monogamous from now on? R required 3 unequivocal 'yeses'.

I don't know if you're making the right decision, but I think I'd have made the same decision if my W hadn't answered 'yes' 3 times. (There were more requirements, of course.)

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29994   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8790658

Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 3:57 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

I’m so sorry Hannah, I just don’t have the words to make this feel any better. He is a broken person, love is not always tingly feelings, if he is chasing tingly feelings he will always be unhappy. Nothing you can do to change it. I have been hopeful for your successful R, but it takes two, and he is out. I’m now hopeful for YOU.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

posts: 3458   ·   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   ·   location: Texas DFW
id 8790675

Stillconfused2022 ( member #82457) posted at 4:12 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

Hannah ( a beautiful name)

I am so very sorry. Your pain comes through so clearly. I still felt a little unsure of what it all means. I know how confused I can feel about those exact things and I wonder whether you two are lost in some forest trying to find a way out but just hopelessly confused about what to do. He said something stupidly callous. Does he even know or understand what he said? My therapist often seems to think that my husband has a low emotional IQ and is perhaps too clueless to engage in the soul searching I’m looking for. There were good studies done by psychologist Simon Baron Cohen showing the significant difference in EQ between the genders.

When you said he compliments you but it doesn’t seem genuine, I wondered about that. When he knows in the back of his mind that you expect for him to be romantic is it even possible to be romantic then? Maybe I am making excuses - I seem to be a pro at that. So feel free to disregard my input as I often feel as lost on this issue as you, probably more so.

I wonder why my husband doesn’t skip out on work to secretly meet up with me - like he did those couple times with the AP. He has said that he knows he has access to me from 4:00 until lights out so he doesn't even think of skipping work, even though he loves me and loves our time. Now that he knows I feel this way….if he skips out of work now to see me will it even feel the same? I’ll know he did it because I asked. Am I setting up a no win scenario for our marriage?

He brings me flowers frequently, but is he just following a formula? Does he really feel the passion. When it seems like we have passionate sex in our bed is it just because I happen to be the person lying next to him? When he tells me I’m beautiful is it just because he is no dummy and realizes he should keep his wife happy?

It sounds like your husband was hopeful and infatuated temporarily by this OW? But there was no way for him to know for sure she reciprocated his interest. Hence the excitement…. How can a marriage offer the same thing. You’re married. When you pull away from your husband maybe it generates more longing in him and briefly scratches that itch for you. But how long are you supposed to keep dong that?

It is all so very hard…and I completely empathize because I feel the exact same way. I just don’t know the solution. If you figure it out I hope you will share it with everyone. Sounds like a question for the SI Wayward spouse team.

Of course you deserve that excitement and passion. I hope one way or another you find it.

posts: 381   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8790681

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:05 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

Don't settle. He's not in love with you, after having an affair where he believes he was totally in love with another woman..and he wants you to stay married, and hope he falls in love with you?

Hell. No.

You would be doing all you could to get him to fall in love, while he soaked up the ego kibble.

You're almost 40. There is still time to meet a man who will fall madly in love with you,and have a child.

Don't waste anymore of your precious time with a man who can't see you for the treasure you are.

It will hurt. But, not anymore than it will hurt staying with him, trying to get him to love you,only to wind up,in a few years, with another affair,or a man who won't love you..and the time has passed that you could become pregnant.

You will be ok.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6711   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8790693

crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 6:28 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

(((Hannah47))) oh dear lady you deserve far better than this. He acts like he must be some kind of prize. I would start detaching and head out of the M. No reason to subject yourself to this if he can't find where his feelings went. He is the issue. Probably needs validation from anyone other than his wife to get that high. There are men out there that will cherish you and stay in love with you for YOU.

Let me tell you I am nearing 50 and I met the love of my life 2 years ago. I have never been treated better by a man. Makes my ex look like horsesh*t. They are out there and you are not too old to have kids. If you stay with your WS I'm not sure you will ever get to the level of happiness you desire. Honestly he sounds like a miserable person.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 6:29 PM, Friday, May 12th]

fBS/fWS(me):50 Mad-hattered after DD (2008)
XWS:53 Serial Cheater, Diagnosed NPD
DD(20) DS(17)
XWS cheated the entire M spanning 19 years
Discovered D-Days 2006,2008,2012, False R 2014

posts: 8804   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8790699

BreakingBad ( member #75779) posted at 7:49 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

You clearly deserve sooooo much better.

Give that better to yourself.

You are being so strong not to settle for "meh."

Live a passionate life, Hannah! Eat, Pray, Love the crap out of it!! Live the life you want

"...lately it's not hurtin' like it did before. Maybe I am learning how to love me more."[Credit to Sam Smith]

posts: 489   ·   registered: Oct. 31st, 2020
id 8790706

emergent8 ( Guide #58189) posted at 7:53 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

Oh Hannah, I'm so sorry. What an absolute gutpunch.

He still equates butterflies/new relationship energy with love. "Relationships should be easy...." rolleyes rolleyes "I love you, but I'm not willing to put into effort into making you feel loved." Ugh...

You are absolutely right that you deserve better than this.

Take whatever time you need. Take care of yourself. You will be missed but YOU are the priority.

Finally, go get your eggs frozen. Let this be the impetus to do that for YOU. You can be a mother with or without him. There is no rule that you need a partner. He wasted so much of your time, he doesn't get to make this choice too.

Me: BS. Him: WS.
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Happily reconciled.

posts: 2134   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8790707

Want2BHappyAgain ( member #45088) posted at 8:07 PM on Friday, May 12th, 2023

Ohhhh Dear Lady...I am so sad to see this!! But in a way...I am happy for you too.

YOU KNEW. Your husband has been lying and trickle truthing you all these years...but YOU KNEW something was still off. The TRUTH...although it may HURT right now...has given you the strength to move forward in YOUR life.

My H placed a lot of blame on me on Dday before he confessed to his A. One thing he told me was that he NEEDED passion in his life...and he hadn't felt it with ME in a long time. I had felt that too...and tried to discuss this with him before. His response before had been that if I just did what HE said...we would both be happy! I had no clue that he was having online affairs for almost 2 years before having his PA in Holland.

I went up to hug him...telling him we could work on this...and that was when he confessed to his A. I know it was from the experience I had with my 1st cheating husband...but my lizard brain took control and I suddenly got stoic and immediately told my H very matter-of-factly that our M was OVER.

My action of getting up and leaving the room...instead of begging him not to leave...I believe that SHOCKED all of that fantasy land affair bubble out of him! My H told me later that in that instant he realized that the best thing that ever happened to him was gone...and it was all HIS fault. Don't be surprised if this has a similar effect on your husband.

I still held firm after talking about maybe going for my H ultimatums he HAD to do IF I was even going to think of being in R. Honestly...I didn't think my H would do any of them. Not only has he done them though...he has surpassed them!

With that in mind Dear Lady...think about what YOU want your life to look like. Having someone be in love with you is a GREAT start! Your husband CAN do it...if he really wants to. But like Hellfire said...DON'T SETTLE. You have done that for way too long. It was admirable...and it shows you did everything you could to help your M get back on track. YOU can now move forward with that knowledge.

Thank you for sharing your story as to why you chose your username! When I see your reminds me of the story of Hannah in the Bible. She didn't have children for a long time...and prayed about it constantly. Long story short...she is the mother of of the great prophets!! Hannah was then Blessed with even more children! Here's to YOU one day being Blessed with your own beautiful Hannah!!

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

posts: 6615   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2014   ·   location: Southeastern United States
id 8790708

Howcthappen ( member #80775) posted at 11:35 AM on Saturday, May 13th, 2023


I’m probably not going to say the popular thing or the politically correct things but here’s what came up inside me when I read this:

EFF THAT! If he’s not physically drawn to you and oozing with desire for you drop him. You’ve gone through toooo much crap for him to treat you like this. I can sense your passion, compassion, feistiness, spark, and romanticism through words on a screen and if he doesn’t the problem lies within him!

A. You and I are very similar and I told him he needed to do EVERYTHING he did with that Skank with me. (She was desperate and did things he doesn’t want me to do in bed) sneaking off to her place in an Uber during lunch to have sex etc

We hyper bonded and then things going back to normal sex seemed strange and like he was pulling back. I also feel like when it gets to a point where he’s old and can’t get it up anymore I’ll feel immense rage that he used it up on her and she stole it from me.

I feel like she has fond memories of passionate encounters while each of their encounters was a violent attack for me.

B. I don’t feel like I’ll ever be able to love anyone again fully because I know I will never trust fully again. I told him he broke the very thing he cherished inside me. I’m not sure if you feel that way or not. Anyway- have you considered getting pregnant by your husband and fulfilling your need for motherhood? Would he be a good father?

What I’m saying is families are created in different ways and I’d hate for his affair to have stolen motherhood from you. He says he loves you do the possibility of co-parenting shouldn’t be horrible.

C. With all the above said, I still believe in the possibilities. I’m a crazy Gemini so I’m always split in two. maybe there is a love out there waiting for you and the universe has been trying to move your hubby out of the way?

D. Are you sure the AP he showed you is the real AP? It sounds to me like she could be a cover up for someone else…..maybe of the same gender?

[This message edited by Howcthappen at 11:37 AM, Saturday, May 13th]

Three years since DdayNever gonna be the sameReconcilingThe sting is still present

posts: 225   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2022   ·   location: DC
id 8790772

 Hannah47 (original poster member #80116) posted at 9:05 PM on Sunday, May 14th, 2023

Thank you all for your support and kindness, it means a lot! To address some comments:

- Yes, it hurt a lot. I completely broke down and cried. I had the strong urge to get away, so I went for a long walk. It’s something I’ve never done / felt before. As if I heard a loud voice in my head: "Run!". I don’t even remember where I walked. It scared me. What’s even more scary is the perception of future pain if I stay. Like sisoon, I also had 3 big questions, and my husband answered "yes" 3 times many times. But now I know the answer to the second one (are you "in love") was "no". It’s just that what I meant by that question is in general "Are you excited about me?" (and by that I mean – are you drawn to me, do you think about me a lot, do you want to spend more time with me, are you excited about spending time with me, do you enjoy my company, are you relaxed, do you have tingly feelings…) Sure, I can stay, I can hope one day he will regain those feelings. I don’t think that’s likely, but sure, there’s a chance. The question is am I willing, and do I think I can endure more pain, just for a "maybe"? Am I supposed to, for example, go on a date with him and get disappointed because he’s not excited about it, and do that again and again and again. That’s no longer temporary pain, that’s suffering. And it’s a vicious circle. How can I feel excited if I know he isn’t? And even if I go completely insane, if I self-deceive, if I disregard everything, what good it is when the problem is not me? The problem are his demons that he refuses to deal with.

- He’s not chasing tingly feelings; he’s not equating butterflies with love. He just doesn’t have them for me, and somehow doesn’t see that as problematic. Somehow, it’s not problematic that the last woman he felt like that about is the OW. His description of love for me is: "I care about you and your well-being. I want you to be happy. I’m worried about you. I sexually desire you." So, if I have to put a label on it, it would be platonic love + sexual attraction. But no romantic love. I wouldn’t be surprised if the sexual desire is one big lie too. I’m kinda used to the fact that when he admits something it’s usually only partial truth, and the real truth is 5 times worse.

- I don’t think of this in terms of what I "deserve". It’s about what I want. I’m sure he also wants certain things in a relationship, and I’m sorry he didn’t see/find those things in me. I’ve never wanted to stand on his way to happiness, whatever that is to him. I just didn’t know. I’m not a mind reader, and I believed what he was saying. Why couldn’t he just be honest is something I’ll never understand. I’d spare us so much pain.

- He’s well aware that I didn’t kill the magic, he killed it with his poor coping mechanisms. However, the betrayal and the aftermath of it prevented the magic from magically appearing again. In other words, he wants nice things, but he’s having problems to do something about it. It would be best if the nice things happen auto-magically. If they don’t just happen, well, what can you do…

- I’m not happy about this. I wanted this to work, I had hope for us. However, it looks like that hope was based on false premises. It’s hard to admit defeat, but this is a battle I cannot win. And even if I could, it seems it would be a Pyrrhic victory. You people are right – it takes two. I feel like we had to climb a mountain together, but most of the time I had to pull and push him. With his words and action (better to say – lack of action), he’d push me down the mountain, and I’d found myself at the bottom again, only more hurt, with less and less strength to climb. I’m sorry because I know he has the capacity to do his part, but obviously not enough willpower.

- The weeks after my initial medical diagnosis were very ugly. We didn’t know what exactly we are dealing with, but we knew it was bad. I dislike being dramatic, but it was so bad that I made my wishes about my funeral clear, and I’ve started to arrange things for the worst-case scenario. Emotions were high those weeks. If that didn’t shock him, if that didn’t make him snap out of his mind state, I don’t what would. You are right, Luna10, I’ve never seen that desperation for me in him.

- Stillconfused2022, those are all valid points, and something I considered many times.

A) He does have lower EQ than me (btw. I’m not a fan of Baron Cohen), but I’ve always thought we complement each other well when it comes to that (having a high EQ is not always a blessing). He does understand what he said. Besides, having a high EQ would only help in delivering it in a nicer way. However, a horseshit is a horseshit, no matter how nicely you wrap it.

B) Ofc it’s possible to be romantic when it’s expected. One could even argue it’s easier because you can prime yourself in advance / you can put yourself in the romantic mood / you can prepare. "I can’t do X when it’s expected of me" is just an excuse for those who don’t want to do X or are too lazy to put in some effort (most likely because they don’t really want to do X).

C) You are not setting up a no-win scenario. People are not mind-readers, it’s better to make your needs / wishes known, than to assume your partner can read your mind. "Hey wife, I thought about what you said, and I think it would be super exciting to skip out of work to meet up with you. We should totally do that. You free tomorrow?" – for me, something like that would be enough, as it shows enthusiasm. Then you do that again and again (or something else), and if the enthusiasm is still there, you know it’s genuine. No one can fake enthusiasm for a very long time. You wanna hear what’s a no-win scenario? When you buy a super-hot-kinda-slutty-but-tasteful red dress, you tell your husband – when you will want me to wear it for you, all you need to do is ask me "Will you be my Valentine?", and then he doesn’t ask you that. For more than a year.

D) My husband has never rejected me, sexually or otherwise. (Only ONCE he refused to massage me a little – and that was during the betrayal and because of it). I know he’s available, I know he will reciprocate. Any yet I felt excitement. How do you explain that? I’m thrilled and excited by sparkly shiny diamonds, not because I can’t have them, but because they are sparkly and shiny. I also have the same level of excitement for Swarovski crystals that I can buy anytime I want.

- Want2BHappyAgain, I usually like your stories, but I have to tell you this Bible story was inappropriate. IIRC Hannah couldn’t have kids, so her husband took another woman who gave him kids. Nevertheless, the pure inappropriateness of that story made me laugh hard! laugh Perhaps a good sign of healing?

- Howcthappen, yes, it’s the real AP, no doubts about it.

- As for the kids – I appreciate all comments and advice, but the thing is I wanted a child with him. I don’t have a strong need for motherhood, I have my cat, and trust me, she’s like a baby, but a bit more self-sufficient. I wanted a kid with him. I wanted a child that would be the fruit of our love. I’m a romantic fool, but I wouldn’t want it any other way!

Nevertheless, I want to say Happy Mother’s Day to all you awesome Moms out there! When your kids drive you insane, just remember what a huge blessing they are!

[This message edited by Hannah47 at 9:23 PM, Sunday, May 14th]

Fate whispers to her, "You cannot withstand the storm."
She whispers back, "I am the storm."

posts: 371   ·   registered: Mar. 21st, 2022
id 8790878

InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 10:17 PM on Sunday, May 14th, 2023

My heart hurts for you, Hannah. I’m at a point in my own journey that I’m realizing I want what you have expressed and if I don’t feel that from my wife then it’s a deal breaker. And it will break my heart anew if it’s not there when the dust settles, pretty much like what you just described. Thank you for sharing your pain. I pray for your physical and emotional health.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2107   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8790881

Want2BHappyAgain ( member #45088) posted at 4:56 PM on Monday, May 15th, 2023

Hannah47...I was hesitant to write about that story because I felt it may be inappropriate...but for other reasons than what you wrote. Something compelled me to write it though...and I am very HAPPY to see it made you LAUGH!! You have already started your healing by standing up for YOU. I totally agree that laughter IS a good sign of healing as well!!

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

posts: 6615   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2014   ·   location: Southeastern United States
id 8790941

OneInTheSame ( member #49854) posted at 9:43 AM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

Hannah, first let me hope along with you for physical healing. I was already chronically ill and lived with some pretty daunting pain and symptoms while my wife was sneaking around with her ex girlfriend. One of her first of many "reasons" was because her ex has been in therapy for years for anxiety disorder— and her ex said she always felt better during the time in which they were together. She told me that her ex didn’t have any demands or expectations: just my wife being there helped her nerves. (All while I was feeling a proverbial "disturbance in the force.") so I under stand "give me what you gave her — only more" because that is exactly what I also required. But I too waited years to see my wife even begin to show signs of progress, and in the mean time my physical pain and my emotional pain got wove together in such a way as I’m not sure I will ever feel free of some of the pain from the scars that are left. When I have a painful flare, d-day and the weeks, months, even years that followed come rushing back. Several of my doctors have said as much as the stress has been a factor in my worsened health. And for the first time, and with observable physical symptoms, I new am diagnosed with anxiety disorder! My wife now acknowledges this and is deeply sorry she didn’t have a better response when I caught her. But where was that when I needed it!

The other thing that jumped out at me is how your spouse has wrapped all the normal disgusting wayward B.S. in some pretty elaborate crap. The laziness is astounding. He wants you to "man the laboring oar" while he sits back and waits to see if he might fall in love with you? What weird universe is he a god in anyway?

Also he has no grasp of the reality of being in a loving relationship, as his affair was apparently all a fantasy that took place in his own head, and not between he and the AP. He has nothing to put on his marriage resume. He has not learned a thing.

I agree with others that you are much more of a prize than he can even begin to comprehend.

(I edit to correct typos)
I am the BS in a lesbian marriage. My WW's ex-girlfriend was the AP.
D-day of the 6 mo A was 10/04/15
We are doing okay, but by now I wanted it to be better

posts: 2533   ·   registered: Oct. 6th, 2015   ·   location: Pacific Northwest
id 8791015

The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 11:37 AM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

This breaks my heart. It truly does.

He basically gave you the ILYBNILWY speech (I love you but not in love with you).

Wow! I know how hard it is to hear that b/c my H told me the same thing. Often during his 6 month affair. It’s like getting punched again and again.

Basically your H is "just not that into you". He’s that cliche. Unfortunately.

My H had spent the last 10 years making up for giving me the ILYBNILWY speech. He came to the realization on his own he didn’t really love the OW. It was infatuation or whatever. Point is he did something to show me how much he loved me. And still does to this day.

I think you need to decide whether you want to be in a relationship with your H any more. Clearly he isn’t interested in making amends but wants the convenience of having you by his side to take care of things.

Is this what you want? A lopsided marriage? One where you don’t feel valued and appreciated?

I think you should stop trying to make him and your marriage your priority. I think you need to put yourself and your needs first.

I hope this helps you see you deserve better.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13950   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8791022
Topic is Sleeping.
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