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Off Topic :
I just do not understand why so much resistance

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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 3:23 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

Regarding Ivermectin: published Oct 20th 2021.

Canadians are once again being told not to consume a deworming drug to treat or prevent COVID-19.

Health Canada issued a statement Tuesday politely reminding Canadians that despite what you may have read on social media, there is absolutely no evidence that ivermectin prevents or even treats COVID-19 and is not authorized to be used to treat the virus in Canada.

"To date, Health Canada has not received any drug submission or applications for clinical trials for ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19," the health agency said in a statement, which notes that poison control centres nationwide have seen a surge in calls regarding the drug.

Until there's actual studies done to prove ivermectin is anything but a dewormer ill be sticking to giving it only to my horses.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)
Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 24066   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
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hcsv ( member #51813) posted at 3:53 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

I think it all comes down to personal responsibility and that means different things for different people.
I chose to vaccinate and continue to mask. I also chose not to see my adult kids and 1 year old grandchild for the holidays because I had an exposure a few days before. My choice.

I also believe that I will get covid (omicron) at some point because it is so contagious. I also believe I wont be very sick, if at all, and will recover quickly, but I will continue to protect myself and not put myself in certain situations. My choice.

I also dont judge those who havent made these same choices as I have and would hope I wouldnt be judged either.

Bottom line, do what works for you.

After 40 years, ex turned into someone I didnt know and couldnt trust anymore. Divorced. 1/17

posts: 695   ·   registered: Feb. 14th, 2016
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 4:00 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

Again may i say that this wasnt intended as a vaxxed vs non vaxxed post.

The resistance is from both sides regarding public health measures that have NOTHING to do with vaccination.

One huge complaint i read was that schools have been moved to remote learning while malls have been reduced to 50% capacity.

Thus you can take your child shopping but not have them in school.

Well....a huge mall reduced to 50% capacity gives a lot more opportunity for distancing than a small classroom filled with 30 kids.

The kids are still being taught, ill be printing off all of their schedules shortly. Education is not being denied. Devices are now readily available as is internet provided by schools. Free child care is being provided as are child care centres in schools.

As for the kids mental health being denied their friends....am i the only parent who provides non stop activities for my kids?

Ok we are lucky that we live on a farm and have all of that to contend with but theres so much more, so many opportunities for learning and quality family time. All of my kids can cook on their own...

And thr pandemic hasnt stopped dd from chatting with her friends either via texts, calls, emails or social media.

Remote learning isnt all doom and gloom.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)
Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 24066   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 4:18 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative. I genuinely want to understand.

How does anyone decide what information is incorrect? I'm staying away from talking about politics due to the guidelines.

How do you (you in general) decide that what I posted from the hospital website is incorrect?

Where is the data about the vaccine side effects? I can't find anything other than the usual expected things.

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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id 8707649
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Loukas ( member #47354) posted at 5:10 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

Maybe you need to look at the much larger picture, DH. It’s not just 2 weeks. It was the whole spring of 2020. The fall and early winter of 2020. The beginning of 2021. The mid and tail end of 2021. Kids are suffering in their education. Some of my nieces and nephews gain almost nothing from online learning, for them, education is being denied.

You may be fine with closing the schools, great, your choice. You could even keep your kids back if schools were open. But the opposite isn’t available to those who see a clear need for in person learning, that should be their choice.

For the record, since the very beginning of the pandemic, 0.4% of children under the age of 19 in Canada have hospitalized within their case count. Spread over two years, I’d say the risk is exceptional minimal to all involved. Or we could use dirty numbers like the government does, in which case children under the age of 19 account for 0.0009% of hospitalizations of all COVID cases. That’s as close to Bigger’s ridiculous number of 0.0001% for COVID parties as possible. It should go without saying, but obviously icu and deaths are much much much lower.

[This message edited by Loukas at 5:15 PM, Wednesday, January 5th]

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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 5:23 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

Loukas

I want to reply to you directly here but please give me a bit of time. Farm life is consuming some days as is the first of many i suspect, issues with online learning lol. Ds password for his google account isnt working...figures.

Ill be back

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)
Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 24066   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
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HFSSC ( member #33338) posted at 5:32 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

I also believe that I will get covid (omicron) at some point because it is so contagious. I also believe I wont be very sick, if at all, and will recover quickly, but I will continue to protect myself and not put myself in certain situations. My choice.

I also dont judge those who havent made these same choices as I have and would hope I wouldnt be judged either.

Bottom line, do what works for you.

I spoke to this in my response to Want2B. Because this is where I am so very stuck. It's all great to make your own choices and hope to not be judged. The problem is that your choices (not specifically you, hcsv, but the universal "You") do not just affect you. I appreciate the choices that you made because evidence has shown that masking, distancing and vaccination DO reduce transmission and severity of illness. For everyone in the community. The more compliance with mitigating measures, the more everyone is protected.

I can not respect another person's choice to willfully increase the risk the health of others. I work with the elderly, a very vulnerable population. I've lost my MIL and my father due to COVID complications. I've had it twice and continue to have repercussions. Both times that I was infected, I felt absolutely fine and had no idea I had been exposed until my symptoms exploded overnight.

Health care systems are crashing. We have been dangerously understaffed for at least the past year and things aren't looking much better.

I don't believe people should be forced to receive the vaccine, but I don't understand the reasons people have given not to accept it. If someone declines the vaccine, I believe they should be doubly accountable for the mitigation measures such as masking, isolation, social distancing and hand hygiene to protect people around them. But it seems very few people want to hear that kind of message.

Me, 54
Him, 45 (JMSSC)
Married 24 years. Reconciled.

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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 6:33 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

Loukas

I fully admit that the beginning of remote learning was hell and we didn't do it. Did not have home internet and did not have the available devices. So teachers put paper packages together for us.

Second round the school provided devices and a Bell phone to tether off of. Still couldnt do all of the Google meets at the same time because the bell internet couldn't handle it.

Third round i purchased unlimited home internet.

Now we are rural. Like i need binoculars to see our neighbours. Signals are shitty on a good day but has gotten better.

What was worse than 4 kids in 4 classes on 4 schedules with online learning was the in person crap we went through.

Let me explain.

Each class IN school is its own cohort. They do not mingle with other classes.

So if DS class has a positive case of covid they were all considered close contacts and moved to remote learning for 10 days, sent home with devices.

Not so bad right? WRONG!

All of the siblings of that one class were required to quarentine as well. BUT those siblings were NOT moved to remote learning. They just had to "follow along as best they could " through google classroom. BUT they were NOT provided with their devices.

So while ONE child was able to continue to learn on a remote schedule, my other three kids were totally lost trying to do work they were missing the lessons on IN CLASS.

I was emailing their teachers non stop asking for clarification on lessons just so i could help them. It was NOT fun!


Also, two of my children are supposed to be receiving special expensive psychological educational testing to help determine their exact learning challenges. Again that is On hold. That totally sucks. Because the longer this takes the further from grade level these two kids become. My child in grade 6 is reading at a grade 2 level. No matter what we do at home he isnt getting it. The supports, one on one time and help he receives IN school makes a huge difference for him day to day.

So IN person learning is always preferred.

That said, if two weeks after the holidays prevents any of my children from getting covid ill take the two weeks.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)
Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

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Jeaniegirl ( member #6370) posted at 6:48 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

I have developed strong feelings about this. These feeling have not come easily for me. The bottom line is I now have feelings of almost disgust for those refusing to vaccinate and follow rules. When I say this doesn't come easily for me, it's because I have spent my entire career defending people with minority views, defending the underdog, the downtrodden and the unwashed. That is why I chose to be a criminal defense attorney.

Like millions of others, I have lost loved ones and friends to Covid -- often not even being able to say goodbye or attend a memorial service for them. Hearing the wife of a classmate .... after her robust, formerly healthy husband died of Covid - and hearing her say he chose to meet Jesus rather than risk the vaccine -- I never want to be in the same room with her ever again.

Not getting vaccinated, not wearing masks, not social distancing and not mingling in large crowds are the only things that will allow this horrible pandemic to continue. To ignore these guidelines not only KILL people but helping to kill other people - and no one has the right to put others at risk. To those not choosing to follow the rules, I respect that --bur would also ask that you stay at home with your door closed and don't hurt others. I also resent the fact that so many in southern states do not have health care insurance but readily show up at ER and hospitals, expecting tax payers to foot the bill for their refusal to comply. This pandemic is hurting our country - and all other countries -- in more ways than just deaths -- it's bankrupting all of us. People can't work because of illness or quarantines -which hurts ALL of us.

The smallpox, measles, typhoid and polio vaccines were never 'political' -- to my knowledge. The Covid vaccine shouldn't be either. We should be smarter than we are. Reading about the pandemic of 1912, it seems people had way more common sense back then.

My opinion may not be a popular one but it IS my opinion.

"Because I deserve better"

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Want2BHappyAgain ( member #45088) posted at 7:14 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

Where is the data about the vaccine side effects? I can't find anything other than the usual expected things.

I thought it would be easy to find it too...but I can't easily find it on the CDC website. I can only find the bar chart online by putting in the name of the person who was banned from Twitter for posting it. However...the bar chart from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System...VAERS...shows that deaths from the Covid vaccine were 21,002. The next highest vaccine death was diptheria with 3176. What is interesting to me about this is that this chart is from 1990 until now. I read where the data was up until June of 2021 but I can't confirm that. Even though the diptheria vaccine death rate has been ongoing for 31 years...the Covid vaccine death rate was less than a year.

HFSSC...I kept looking for your response to me on here...then I noticed that you responded to my thread laugh !! Thanks for that!! I posted it yesterday but no one seemed to be interested in THAT one laugh . I will go there now and reply smile .

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

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needing_clarity ( member #9213) posted at 7:32 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

Dragn....I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be used to treat Covid, but the FDA has approved Ivermectin to treat parasites in both animals and humans. It's not only a horse de-wormer.

From the webMD website (since I can't post the link....similar statements are on the NIH and FDA website):

Ivermectin is a medication that treats some parasitic diseases. There are two types of the medication. Doctors prescribe one kind for certain health conditions in people, and veterinarians prescribe another that’s safe only for animals.

What Conditions Does Ivermectin Treat?

In people, the FDA has approved prescription ivermectin tablets to treat two infections caused by parasitic worms:

Strongyloidiasis, which can cause problems like belly pain, bloating, heartburn, diarrhea, and rashes. However, most people who catch it don’t have symptoms.

Onchocerciasis, also called river blindness, which can bring on an itchy rash, eye disease, or abnormal growths under the skin. Doctors can also prescribe a type of ivermectin that you put on your skin (called a topical medication) to treat head lice and skin conditions like rosacea and scabies.

Don't give me songs ~ give me something to sing about.

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BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 7:39 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

I just went to the CDC website and they have the side effects in a pretty logical place:
Vaccines > Safety and Monitoring > Reported Adverse Events. You have to dig a little once there - lots of variables by vaccine type, age group, etc.

Me: BS 55 (49 on d-day)Him: WH. 64. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 7:43 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

needing_clarity

I am well aware that Ivermectin is used both in humans and animals. Further to the article i posted earlier:


Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic drug that treats parasitic worm infections. There are two versions of the drug — one for humans that is available only as a prescription and one for animals known as the veterinary version — that have been approved for use in Canada as a treatment for parasitic worm infections.

The veterinary version of ivermectin, especially at high doses, can be dangerous for humans and may cause serious health problems that include vomiting, diarrhea, low blood pressure, seizures, and even death, according to Health Canada.

"Canadians should never consume health products intended for animals because of potential serious health risks, including seizures, coma and even death," the agency said in its release.

Interest in the drug started rising in the United States and elsewhere toward the end of last year and the beginning of this one, when studies – some later withdrawn, in other countries – seemed to suggest ivermectin had some potential and it became a hot topic of conversation among conservatives on social media.

The myth about ivermectin being an alternative to COVID-19 vaccination eventually reached Vancouver Island and by early September the veterinary version, which could be bought over the counter, had completely disappeared from animal feed store shelves across the Island.


The fact is people were taking the HORSE DEWORMER!!!

Thats why feed stores removed their stock from shelves and it was ONLY available by request if it was available at all...

The definition of crazy "oh i dont trust an FDA approved vaccine for covid but ill go buy and take a fucking horse dewormer..."

Ya smart! Duh!

Did you also know that those prefilled vials of ivermectin are also numbered up the vial based on weight of your horse so you CAN give them to much. Imagine giving a 1500lb horse TO MUCH wormer...and expecting NOT to get sick when a 160lb (average) human takes it. Again DUH!

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)
Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 24066   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
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Loukas ( member #47354) posted at 7:44 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

It sounds like you more than most should be able to understand the resistance, DH. Except you aren’t fed up yet. And that’s ok, but many are, except they continue to be ignored time and time again.

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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 8:16 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

It sounds like you more than most should be able to understand the resistance, DH. Except you aren’t fed up yet. And that’s ok, but many are, except they continue to be ignored time and time again.

Oh i am fed up. Just not with the same things you are.

I see it this way.

No matter what the "powers that be" do they are screwed no matter what.

The person who has to make that decision to lockdown or not has all the rage of the people on their shoulders. All the economic worries, all the health worries and all the blabbering advice from all the experts to sort through.

Take long term care homes. Restrict all visitors and enrage family. Or leave it open and have mass deaths again?

Seems like an easy choice to me.

Kids might not suffer or die as much as adults and lets be damn thankful for that, but as a parent with a child who could potentially have severe illness if she contracts covid i will accept remote learning, i will abide by thr public health mandates, i will do MY part to reduce any chance of infection.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)
Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 8:45 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

I can't easily find it on the CDC website. I can only find the bar chart online by putting in the name of the person who was banned from Twitter for posting it. However...the bar chart from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System...VAERS...shows that deaths from the Covid vaccine were 21,002.

To clarify, that's a bar chart that you found on the VAERS site, or it's a bar chart that someone else said was on the VAERS site, but there's no evidence supporting that claim?

Show me where the VAERS site says there were over 20k deaths from COVID vaccination, and I'll sound the alarm bell right along with you.

Edited to add: I'm seeing that VAERS reports raw data, as in all incidents of adverse effects after vaccination, verified and unverified. That makes sense when I think about it, because the whole point is to get as many data points as possible to look for trends. However, I would not equate these reports on the same level with peer reviewed scientific studies. If someone I loved got the vaccine and died two days later, I would want an investigation of what happened. However, a report to VAERS would not automatically qualify as evidence that the vaccine killed him.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 9:09 PM, Wednesday, January 5th]

WW/BW

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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 8:57 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

However...the bar chart from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System...VAERS...shows that deaths from the Covid vaccine were 21,002. 

Want2BHappyAgain

VAERS is simply a reporting tool that can be used by anyone to "report" their experience after receiving a vaccine. It DOES NOT establish cause and effect for that report.

If you google vaers dr. Jen caudle you should find her video explaining all of that.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)
Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 24066   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
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Loukas ( member #47354) posted at 9:12 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

Take long term care homes. Restrict all visitors and enrage family. Or leave it open and have mass deaths again?

Seems like an easy choice to me.

I agree, it does seem like an easy choice. Has been the easiest choice all along. Considering how vulnerable they are. And if families are enraged, they could simply take their relative out. It’s really that easy. But schools aren’t even in the same universe as that situation. Nor is the vaste majority of the population.

No matter what the "powers that be" do they are screwed no matter what.

Maybe so, but while you think they have all the pressure on their shoulders, I believe them to be motivated by self-preservation. If trampling human rights is the best solution that they can come up with, they failed before they started. And is a very clear sign of character.

While I do understand your concern for your child. Does it not make sense to come up with a solution for her situation instead making millions suffer needlessly? Seems like an easy choice to me.

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gmc94 ( Guide #62810) posted at 9:20 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

FWIW, there are a reported issues with VAERS data.
Say I have congenital heart disease. Say I get vaccinated. Say I have a heart attack and die 4 days after I get the jab.

Some folks are putting that into VAERS as an adverse reaction to the jab. There MAY be correlation, but it is not "causation".

In all fairness, there are similar issues with the hospitalization data, bc they are counting # of patients with covid, but not distinguishing between # of patients admitted DUE TO a covid problem, vs patients admitted for some OTHER reason, but also happen to have Covid... e.g., fully vaxxed person is admitted due to injuries from a car crash and who, while hospitalized, tests positive for Covid. The Covid symptoms are doing fine/well managed, and "but for" the MVA injuries, they would be home. However, they are (1) a hospitalized patient and (2) have Covid, so they are covid-hospitalized patient. They COULD even be in the ICU due to the MVA injuries, but not "due to" the Covid.

This skews the "covid" hospitalization numbers. Now, my suspicion is that the ratios of "covid patients" to "patients who also happen to have Covid" is not that large... but that's just a hunch. I believe there are efforts underway to get the hospitalization data to be more specific (another place I don't envy the folks working in healthcare dealing with the data).

Another issue is that surgeries were (at least a year+ ago) being delayed bc of staffing and other shortages. So, if the MVA person has some kind of fracture, they may have to wait several days (taking up a bed :( ) before getting surgery. Again, my personal experience with this was over a year ago, so those kind of waits may not still be happening (or may just ebb & flow with the covid inundation that IS still happening, just not necessarily in the numbers being reported). And I suppose that while all of this does skew the data, whether the data about "because of" covid vs "also has" covid doesn't matter much to the folks absolutely burned out and inundated from working on the front line to care for all patients.

Interesting to note that the largest hospital system in my neck of the woods recently stopped ALL elective procedures (anything that can wait more than a month, IIRC). So, I assume when these kind of things are put into place, that ratio also further decreases.

In any event, I don't discount all of VAERS - but I do take it with a healthy grain of salt, given that the data can be entered by anyone (and while I consider myself of reasonable intelligence, I am NOT a dr or nurse and would have no way to discern whether any adverse reaction was "caused" by a vaccine or merely correlates to the time I got a vaccine).

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 9:34 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

If trampling human rights is the best solution that they can come up with, they failed before they started. 

I think you need to reread the charter of rights ans freedoms again.


Reasonable limits
The charter's Section 1 states that all of its rights and freedoms are subject to reasonable limits.

Although the charter's purpose is to protect the individual from the majority's wishes in many circumstances, Mathen says this gets analyzed differently when upholding individual charter rights would present a clear risk to public health.

And while people have the right to behave as though COVID isn't a big deal for themselves, Mathen said, they don't have the right to behave as though it isn't a big deal for everyone else.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)
Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 24066   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8707770
Topic is Sleeping.
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