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And you thank me and your neighbors and your fellow taxpayers, because they and I are paying for treatments that are much more expensive than the vaccines.

That isn't true about the cost with the YEARS of preparations still being done before the vaccines get approval from the FDA. But thank you for paying for these treatments. They help BOTH the vaccinated and unvaccinated.

But how do you make amends to the the people who suffer more than necessary - and even die - because ERs and ICUs are filled with unvaxed people?

That is why I said we NEED to get the therapeutics that keep the people OUT of the hospital. Yet the federal government has TAKEN AWAY that option. WHY????? People are DYING because these therapeutics are NOT being made available. WHY?????

Who in their right mind thought vaccines would cure or totally prevent Covid?

If you read back on the Covid threads on THIS Forum you will find a whole bunch of people who thought this.

The 'mainstream media' never gets it completely right. But each element of alternative media usually has an agenda, and a half-way intelligent human being knows that and reads/listen/looks critically at what the alternatives are putting out. And a lot of alternative media is simply filled with demonstrable lies.

NO media ever gets it completely right. There are agendas with EVERY media. I see the LIES in mainstream media the most...ESPECIALLY when they said how people who got this vaccine would NOT get Covid. I am not sure who you are calling "alternative media"...so I will just leave it at that.

Health care workers fired for not getting vaxed? Who in their right mind would want to be in contact with an unvaxed service provider when dealing with their own health?

YES...people who DEAL WITH THIS EVERY DAY are refusing to get vaccinated. You've never wondered WHY????? I have ASKED them...and I completely understand THEIR reasons...and statistics from the CDC have backed them up.

IOW, it's your health and your comfort that we're dealing with.

Actually...from this type of attitude...it isn't ANYTHING to do with ME.

Why the resistance?

AGAIN...NO resistance. But of course...sadly...NO ONE who thinks this is resistance will see it any other way .

I have started another thread about respectful dialogue concerning this. Y'all can continue to bash the unvaccinated on THIS thread. I'm out.

Why do you trust the after infection treatments but not the vaccine?

That has yet to be answered.

I believe in "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

My point was the outrage and vulgarity was not necessary in response to basic mandates.

I do not understand the outrage at a covid vaccine requirement for privileges when we have required immunizations to attend public school and to travel (yellow fever and Malaria vaccine requirements for certain countries).

I dont see asking why you refuse to get the vaccine as bashing. It seems more that since theres more that want an answer to that then those with your view you've chosen to stop talking. Exactly the problem you say we need to address...

Its perfectly find!

We can have open dialog here.

Thank you for that . I was making my reply to sisoon between my H coming home for lunch...so I didn't see this post. I will be HAPPY to continue the dialogue...as long as it is respectful on BOTH sides .

Why do you trust the after infection treatments but not the vaccine?

It isn't that I don't trust the vaccine. I would LOVE to take the vaccine because I am obese and know that I have a greater risk of getting really sick or dying if I get Covid. Sadly...I have had family members who have had very bad life altering reactions to the vaccine. The doctors are baffled as to WHY my family members had this. However...those who have had the monoclonal antibodies have had NO adverse reactions. Until we can find out what happened with my family members...I don't want to take the chance of having the vaccine. Thankfully it is only on one side of my family...so if we can isolate what it is that makes the risk greater...I may be able to get the vaccine one day IF I don't carry that certain risk factor.

My point was the outrage and vulgarity was not necessary in response to basic mandates.

I do not understand the outrage at a covid vaccine requirement for privileges when we have required immunizations to attend public school and to travel (yellow fever and Malaria vaccine requirements for certain countries).

That outrage and vulgarity are going on with both sides...and I don't understand it either. I can't speak for anyone else...but it seems that these other immunizations have all been FDA approved...maybe that is the reason?

I dont see asking why you refuse to get the vaccine as bashing. It seems more that since theres more that want an answer to that then those with your view you've chosen to stop talking. Exactly the problem you say we need to address...

Is this for me? Who has asked me that question...before you in THIS post? Maybe I am missing reading a post somewhere?

Yet the federal government has TAKEN AWAY that option [of post infection treatment].

This is demonstrably FALSE. A friend of mine who is immunocompromised, got covid and a week ago today received the mononuclear antibody treatment at a local pharmacy. My WH also got Covid and his dr advised on Sunday to let the dr know if WH wants to get the mononuclear antibodies (WH declined). So, it absolutely IS available (at least in my area) and from my own experience and what I'm told by those in health care, it IS being given to patients. It's also VERY expensive (and why would taxpayers or insurance companies - which we ALL end up paying for- want to pay for something that costs thousands of dollars for people that don't want to get a vaccine that costs MUCH less?). The pfizer pill was only approved 2-3 weeks ago. As I understand it (and I could be wrong) it is being produced and will be available. The other pill (was it Merck?) turned out to NOT be very effective.

Like most things in life, the ounce of prevention is usually a MUCH better/more effective route than relying on the "cure".

Given this is a site focused on infidelity.... wouldn't most of us say that the A being PREVENTED would have been far preferred to the "cure" of the post dday healing?

That outrage and vulgarity are going on with both sides...

Yes. More specifically the outrage at in person schooling being delayed two weeks. 🙃 two weeks will not make or break a students academic year. Even if it goes on longer we have been through this before and, well my kids anyways, have done just fine.

Is it annoying and stressful and a total headache having four kids in four classes, doing four different schedules??? Hell ya!

It doesnt solve any problems to then take to social media spewing vulgarity and threats to those that made this decision.

After getting my three youngest their first vaccination this morning we stopped at the school to pick up their chromebooks.

Teachers have been emailing and sending out messages non stop about schedules etc. My phone is blowing up with notifications.

Want2BHappyAgain

You have a perfectly valid reason and just concern for not getting vaccinated. I get it.

Yet the federal government has TAKEN AWAY that option [of post infection treatment].

This is demonstrably FALSE.

The TRUTH is that the United States Department of Health and Human Services ANNOUNCED that they PAUSED the distribution on December 23, 2021. Your area may still have some to be given out...but it is NOT being distributed as of right now. People are DYING because of this unnecessary pause...not to mention it is making even MORE people have to go to the hospital.

DragnHeart...thank you for asking...and for your kind response .

I honestly ADMIRE parents who are having to deal with all of this right now . My gosh...it is UNREAL what my grandchildren are having to go through! I am very BLESSED to be able to help them with some of this...although my math skills are VERY rusty !!!

News today explaining that they are finding the monoclonal therapies aren't working for Omicron.

News today explaining that they are finding the monoclonal therapies aren't working for Omicron.

That was the reason they stated for pausing them on the 23rd...stating Omicron was over 70% of the positive Covid cases. They later had to walk it back showing that Omicron was only a little over 20% of the cases . I am sure Omicron is dominating now...but there is still one monoclonal antibody treatment that shows it is still effective.

With Delta...the federal government started rationing the treatments...saying they needed to make sure there was enough. Not make MORE...ration . These treatments have HELPED...yet they are stopping them...even when they have proven to be effective for other strains. It's a royal MESS all around.

If we're using labels, I am what one would call vaccine hesitant - not resistant. I had all the childhood shots (required for school) as did my children. I do not take additional shots - ie, flu, gardesil, etc. I'm also more holistic in my health care approach. I rarely to never visit the doctor. I take bio-identical hormones (after I stupidly allowed a doctor to do a hysterectomy for merely bothersome fibroids)....but other than that, take no other meds (at 54 yo). I very rarely even take any OTC meds...and never for a fever under 102.

I am unvaxxed...have no current intention to take it nor existing medical reason not to. I've recently lost a very close friend (unvaxxed) to covid. It didn't change my mind on the jab. I had covid in March 2020.

I'm more than happy to share my personal reasons. I usually do not do so except in very secure company. I'm as much concerned over the division being created by this issue as anything. I very much have the attitude of - "If you think you need the shot, you probably do. If you think you don't, then you probably don't." I think fear is a detrimental force to health. I try to consider other people's comfort in an attempt to alleviate fear...but not at the expense of mine. I have no desire to be right in my reasons. I do not know the answers...but I have done as much as I can (and continue to do so) to educate myself. The only real thing that will shut down an open dialogue with me is to refer to me or my thoughts as conspiracy...particularly without irrefutable facts yourself.

In full disclosure, it has been my experience that people who often claim to just want to know the reasons, actually don't. They just want me to do what makes them feel better, safer...which is a foundational issue that I have in understanding the whole vaccine debate as a whole.

Well we cannot even be tested for covid right now because there arent enough tests.

That and i suspect from those I know who work in the labs, that staffing is an issue there as well.

So, if we get the sniffles then its quarentine for five days. Ya sure. How many people can afford to take time off work over and over again?!?

Geez wh was told by his boss that if he chose not to work all the overtime being offered, ie 70+ hours/week, 6 days a week, he would find himself spending a lot more time at home. As in without a job!

This boss doesnt care if you are sick. He also doesnt do the required screening of staff. Half the guys are anti vax, think its all a conspiracy and have said they will quit if the vaccine is made mandatory.

Luckily masks are worn or i would have made wh find a new job. Sadly most of the guys, and now girls have come down ill. Its scary to think that since none can be tested they could be spreading covid around snd wh could bring it home.

To truthsetmefree

I am a you do you, me do me person.

I keep large dangerous reptiles....trust me im all for me do me lol you dont have to like reptiles or be forced to visit my home lol

The thing is if one makes the choice NOT to be vaccinated but society and those who govern us chose to make vaccination a requirement for indoor dining, travel, gym use etc i think its ridiculous for the non vaxxed to complain.

All choices have consequences. Indoor dining, gym use and travel are not rights. They are privileges we enjoy within societies rules. The No Shirt No shoes rules dont upset anyone. Should nudests take to protesting that they deserve the right to run naked through the streets because they want to? Lol. Please God Nooooooooo lmao

Oh and i am all for natural. Very few here, i think only ONE person at SI even knows my "natural beliefs"

That said i also am educated in medical sciences, and believe in, have faith in the medical marvels of our time.

In full disclosure, it has been my experience that people who often claim to just want to know the reasons, actually don't.

Mine too...until Dragnheart asked . No one else on here has ever cared to ask...just judge . It can get UGLY on both sides...and that doesn't help anyone.

This is demonstrably FALSE. A friend of mine who is immunocompromised, got covid and a week ago today received the mononuclear antibody treatment at a local pharmacy.

Several governors are begging the Federal government to allow them to purchase monoclonal antibodies. Those states are out of this life-saving medications. Why?

This treatment, as well as the new Pfizer pill, and testing, should have already been available in every state for any patient who needs them. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

I am fully vaxed and boosted but I would not ever berate someone who decided not to take the vaccine. Here in NYC, tourists flocked the city for Christmas, only to be told that their five-year old couldn't dine in a restaurant if he/she was not fully vaccinated. IMO complete lunacy.

I hope more people get vaccinated, but I do not support these mandates that are creating more havoc in individual lives....we've endured enough the past two years..

The thing is if one makes the choice NOT to be vaccinated but society and those who govern us chose to make vaccination a requirement for indoor dining, travel, gym use etc i think its ridiculous for the non vaxxed to complain.

Since this is the second time you bring it up, I guess it deserves to be addressed. That human rights museum I spoke about earlier, is filled with atrocities, inequities and unjust actions past governments have taken. You see that’s the funny thing about human rights violations, the majority is always on board at the time, it’s only when we look back do we call them violations. The vast majority will agree that governments have wronged in the past, they just look past it while it’s happening.

It’s probably time to pull up the charter or rights and freedoms, DH. We do have guaranteed freedoms and rights. They aren’t a privilege. The only privilege is that we were born in a nation that is supposed to protect those freedoms and rights. Discrimination is discrimination is discrimination, regardless of your fears or any else’s. That’s why they complain.

those who govern us chose to make vaccination a requirement for indoor dining, travel, gym use etc i think its ridiculous for the non vaxxed to complain.

Perhaps what's not really being understood is exactly WHO our complaint (and ultimately distrust) is with. And there's a history as long as it has been recorded that suggests that such a general mistrust is not entirely misplaced.

ETA: Everything Loukas just said. The main reason that atrocities are not recognized other than in hindsight is there's always a scapegoat while it's happening.

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 9:18 PM, Tuesday, January 4th]

^^^Loukas, spot on. Thank you.

To clarify about the status of these drugs:

On 12/23, HHS announced it would PAUSE distribution of some (bamlanivimab and etesevimab together, etesevimab alone, and REGEN-COV) of the monoclonal treatments, bc they were predicted to be INEFFECTIVE against Omicron (IOW, great for Delta... waste of a scarce & expensive resource for Omicron). This did not apply to sotrovimab which did not have data indicating lack of effectiveness and was never stopped (tho supply IS limited). Indeed, as to sotrovamab, HHS said on 12/23: "Shipments of sotrovimab did resume this week, and delivery of 55,000 doses of product has begun. An additional 300,000 doses of sotrovimab will be available for distribution in January."

The same day (12/23) the FDC granted emergency use authorization (EUA) for the Merck pill treatment (EUA was given to Pfizer the day before, on 12/22). Now, IIRC, tho the Merck pill got EUA, its studies did not show it being very effective - at least not as effective as Pfizer's pill. I believe Merck was only like 30% effective against hospitalization/death vs placebo and didn't do ANYTHING for those who have antibodies from a prior Covid infection (or from those who are vaccinated). As to the Pfizer pill (Paxlovid), that one seems to work better at preventing hospitalization/death (like 90%), even from Omicron. NIH has said the Pfizer pill can have "significant and complex" interactions with other drugs, including OTC supplements (so I gotta wonder if all of us taking, say, zinc, in an effort to help avoid infection, may end up SOL if they get it and can't take the pfizer pill until the zinc is out of our system - zinc may not be such a big deal, but there are other drugs that take days to get cleaned out). In any event, I don't think anyone can expect the pills to magically appear & be distributed nationwide in the 2 weeks since it received EUA (tho if I had the ability to snap my fingers and have millions of doses of anything mass produced w/in 10-15 days, I'd be heading for retirement right about now )

On 12/29/21, HHC clarified that the pause of SOME monoclonal treatments was ONLY in states where Omicron was the dominant (greater than 80%) strain. The announcement noted that: The purpose of this pause is to ensure effective product is available in most sites. In regions that have less than 80% prevalence of the Omicron variant, states and territories will continue to receive allocations of the two products to use as clinically appropriate.

On 12/30, the NIH's treatment guidelines panel issued guidance on all of these post-infection drugs (including the Pfizer & Merck pills that received EUA the prior week). That guidance included adding Remdesiver for treating covid patients (but that one is administered via a 3-day IV, while Sotrovimab is a single IV infusion - so it is logistically OK for HOSPITALIZED patients, but using it on an OUTPATIENT basis is unwieldly and "off label", tho Drs use drugs in "off label" ways all the time). It also clarified that if Delta is still the dominant strain, the other treatments MAY be given, "with the understanding that this treatment would be ineffective if they are infected with the Omicron"

Then on 12/31, HHS announced that in light of the NIH's guidelines & the "significant variability" in the presence of Omicron, "all states and territories can continue to order both Lilly (bamlanivimab plus etesevimab) and Regeneron (casirivimab plus imdevimab) monoclonal antibody products from HHS based on allocated amounts for clinically appropriate use"

So - basically SOME of the drugs were paused for one week while the scientists could get a handle on how they would/should/could be used effectively when delta & omicron seem to be battling it out for dominance (I could be wrong, but I assume folks are still getting other strains, but in MUCH smaller numbers)

Also, it may be helpful for those concerned about vaccine reactions to look up what the NIH and CDC and manufacturer's have to say about all of these drugs. There is still potential not only for ineffectiveness, but more importantly for serious, and life changing side effects - tho I do not know if the risks of adverse reaction from the post-infection drugs are less/more/same as the potential for adverse reaction from the vaccine(s).

When has indoor dining ever been a right?

Going to a Jays or Leafs game a right?

No!

Lets replace Privilege with Luxury.

Wearing a mask does NOT infringe on any freedom or right!

And being that we (Canadians are who i am speaking to) live where the WINTER AIR HURTS OUR FACE, i call bullshit on the "i cant breathe" excuse!

More often than not when the cold North wind blows we cover up and never in the history of people wearing scarves has anyone died of scarf hypoxia!

Our children and not being denied an education by delaying in person learning 2 weeks. Even if it goes for the rest of the year they ARE BEING TAUGHT THROUGH THE AMAZING THING WE CALL TECHNOLOGY!

The only privilege is that we were born in a nation that is supposed to protect those freedoms and rights.

That nation is also required to protect public health. Its doing so through public health mandates.

I just spent five minutes on the Canadian Human Rights Commission site and found more than enough material there for perspective and nuance. Highly recommend.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 9:36 PM, Tuesday, January 4th]

bc they were predicted to be INEFFECTIVE against Omicron (IOW, great for Delta... waste of a scarce & expensive resource for Omicron)

Delta is still hitting hard in many states. Twenty percent of all cases. Anticlonal antibodies are not currently available, and I would hope that it would be up to the physician to determine who needs these treatments, not the bureaucracy.

BTW, the supply of these antibodies was cut back in September.

[This message edited by annb at 10:02 PM, Tuesday, January 4th]

EVERYTHING that you copied and pasted gmc94 is negated by what annb said in her post right after mine. This may be true in YOUR state...but in MY state we can't get these treatments. The federal government has used THEIR authority to STOP these post infection treatments from coming to MY state. WHY??? Because they have deemed it to be Omicron dominant???? Give me a break .

I have FIRST HAND knowledge of the adverse reactions to this vaccine. So I DO KNOW the risks of adverse reaction from the post-infection drugs are MUCH LESS than the potential for adverse reaction from the vaccine(s) in MY family.

BTW, the supply of these antibodies was cut back in September.

Yes they were...several months before Omicron came to be known. Amazing how the federal government began rationing these infusions after a certain state started making it easier to get these treatments and the hospital rates went WAY DOWN.

THANK YOU...again Loukas .