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For the couples that separated and got back together. How long did u separate? Did it change you as a WS? What about it made you want to change? What did u do to change? How did u show your BS you was changing while separated?

So what did you talk about for an hour?

My husband talked to the AP a lot according to records while in the affair but says she didn’t have much to talk about and wasn’t that smart and just made him feel like he was the bees knees (not his words).

He says he talked to her a lot because he needed to keep her interested and on the hook enough to keep giving him ego kibbles.

Really? That doesn’t sound like it’s true.

WS what are thoughts? Did you spend hours on the phone not enjoying it?

Micki500

So what did you talk about for an hour?

I can relate to that. My AP did a good job of keeping me coming back for more. She was always the attentive listener and always supported my view. I can't tell you how many times she said I deserved more, I wasn't being valued, blah, blah , blah. Fact is I fed my AP all the ammo she needed to keep feeding my ego. Sure we talked most days. A lot of times it was about everyday stuff - the weather, politics, idiots we work with. Pretty much all the things I should have been talking about with my BW but wasn't.

Yes there was the hot and heavy flirting texts and talk early on, but as time goes that changes to more mundane things too. I was more interested in living this fantasy where I was valued so I kept going back for more. Sure we had some entertaining conversations, and some thought provoking ones and a lot of lies as well. I made up all kinds of stuff taking facts and twisting them to make everyone else out to be awful.

For a good 3 or 4 months I kept feeding my AP the old line of I'll leave my BW someday soon. I had no intention of leaving, what I wanted from my AP was the fantasy that I mattered, because I convinced myself that I didn't matter at home.

To look back I realized I really didn't care for or even like my AP that much. She was there to fulfill a function. I realized afterwards how little I really had spent learning about who she was. Fact is I used my AP.

Stop focusing and thinking that the whole A is about sex. Sex is such a small part of most A's. It is the fantasy that matters. My fantasy was filling the void of not feeling valued. Depression didn't help.

Wow, I think this is the first time asking a question. Maybe not, my trauma brain is shit these days.

Here is the question and preamble. I am the traditional good guy, responsible, hard working, etc. I am educated and intelligent. Friends that know me would describe me as a catch, nothing increadible but pretty good. I'm also a former army officer, love to hunt,fish, etc. Also loved being a husband and father. Its what I loved most.

So my WW soon Ex, had an affair with, and I kid you not, a cowboy who blew into town. Don't get me started on the cliches...She loved the excitement she later told me. He's taller than me, but financially strapped, stupid, and without honour. Ot really good looking. I've never met anyone who knows him who says a good word about him. Liar is the word that is used most. He is an asshole, balls to bones. Yet despite this, he gets women, mostly preying on bored wives who bring their kids in for lessons in riding. He has a schtick that works I guess.

So here is my question. Why would a woman throw away her marriage, family, reputation for what amounts to a petri dish in a cowboy hat? Is it the bad boy thing? Do nice guys finish last or not at all?

Oh, I forgot to mention that she was incensed when she found out he cheated on her while she cheated on me. Oh, the symmetry!

Wow-

MrCleanslate-

It sounds so crazy to me when my husbands says the same things you’re saying. He said she was boring and talked about nothing. In my research about her my husband looks at me like “ really? You know more about her than I do.” I guess he was really being serious about that.

I believe in my heart he must have said he was going to leave me but he denies it and the affair partner did too when I spoke with her. In fact one time when I called her she screamed in anger at me- “he’s never going to leave you! Why are you calling me?!”

This really makes no sense to my logical brain or heart.

So here is my question. Why would a woman throw away her marriage, family, reputation for what amounts to a petri dish in a cowboy hat? Is it the bad boy thing? Do nice guys finish last or not at all?

The OM in my case was the polar opposite (at least on the surface) of a bad boy. He was nerdy and not conventionally attractive. However, he was naturally funny, and that got him a lot of attention/pursuit from women. People like to be around people who make them feel good, and a guy who can make girls laugh consistently is probably not going home alone.

Of course, some of the funniest people on the planet are miserable to be around when you get to know them. They develop humor as a coping mechanism for insecurity or a narcissistic need for attention. After several weeks of my A, I was getting glimpses of the dark side of OM. My reaction to that was to mostly ignore the red flags, because my kibbles were dependent on his attention being valuable. If he really was desirable, and he chose me, that made me feel validated; I avoided any new information that could recast me as a pathetic dupe. If he had weaknesses I couldn't ignore, then he needed someone to "save" him -- also me, this time in a powerful KISA role. I know we hammer this point to irritating levels, but it all came back to me, me, me.

There are certainly some women who inherently prefer bad boys. I can't claim to know why, but I suspect it's some combination of seeking approval from dominant men and "proving" to other women that they can land a playa in stiff competition (and either hold his attention or reform him). But a lot of us really are attracted to nice guys. Of the women I know, more think that bad boys are odious than attractive.

WS what are thoughts? Did you spend hours on the phone not enjoying it?

Mickie- I didn’t. I found time during work trips to talk to AP and believe I was madly in love with her. How I know I wasn’t is that I have NO IDEA what we talked about in general. It was mostly quantity over quality and the biggest challenge in reconstructing these conversations is I was never actually listening.

Some of that may be a “boy thing” as far as conversation skills and active listening, but it’s far more about going into those moments wanting to take- As a result I controlled the conversations and injected lots of “ILYs” when it would die down because I could then elicit the response that would make me feel good.

A good analogy is watching two toddlers babble at each other mimicking what they see as conversation. AP was as unskilled at giving freely and so we were both just vomiting niceties at each other until something made us feel squishy.

It was a process of churning out enough garbage that something had to look like a Michelangelo just by the law of averages. But I definitely enjoyed it, because there was a reward buried somewhere in it.

I don't really remember what we talked about. Books, movies, gossip about mutual friends, some basic background about families, past relationships, etc. One thing that strikes me looking back is that he really was having an existential crisis about a career path. I didn't give an opinion on it because I wasn't all that interested. It was something that had nothing to do with me and was only going to affect his life after the A was over. When he ruminated about how his parents were pressuring him in one direction, I privately just thought it was time for him to grow the fuck up and make his own decision. Which was probably fair, but I never questioned his judgment or maturity when it came to his interest in me.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 8:50 PM, August 15th (Saturday)]

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 2:50 AM, Sunday, August 16th]

My husband has always said that the Sex with me was better than the tons of other people that he slept with during our marriage. I feel like every guy says that when he gets caught, and I call BS. Did your therapist or friend or whoever tel you to not tell your wife that others were better? I just don’t believe it!! Please advise. Thanks

Veryhurt

I guess it depends on what defines very good or better. A sex is exciting and new. You’re with someone different which also adds fuel to the excitement. Marriage sex would be hard pressed to compete with that.

IMO a key component missing in all of that is the emotional connection that gets forged over time in a marriage. During my A, I thought my AP was the one. All the drivel you read here about soulmate etc was how I felt. I thought I had a connection to her like I had never experienced before.

Except it was all bullshit. It was nothing but dust. It was built on lies and deceit. A house built on sand.

I’ve been with my wife for over half my life now. She is a part of me and I her. What we have is real and not some shitty illusion.

All that being said, I agree with your assessment of your WS. From what you’ve described, it sounds like he’s cheated your entire marriage. Unfortunately I call bullshit on his claims. It doesn’t sound like he is capable of having a deep connection with anything except what’s in his pants. I apologize for being blunt but what he says just doesn’t ring true.

Did any ws ever tell his bs that the ow was “better” than them?

Ie, “OW has a career and takes care of kids, maybe I can have her call you and tell you how to do that.”

Both ow have had careers and I am a SAHM. I am more educated than OW 1 but I feel just about as educated as OW 2 .

When angry, Wh will bring up the GET A JOB line. And ow 1 even would tell me that!

I am a very involved SAHM, and have homeschooled for several years, so it’s not like I’m eating bon bons. My kids have lots of activities, I drive them everywhere, and I have worked very part time recently and loved it. But I feel like I get my kids for so short a time and then they are off to college and the real world and I want to relish in their childhood.

My therapist says my Wh says this bc parenting comes naturally for me, and it doesn’t for him. Trips to the park are fun to me, but a chore to him.

[This message edited by Gottagetthrough at 1:17 PM, August 16th (Sunday)]

[This message edited by Gottagetthrough at 7:17 PM, Sunday, August 16th]

GGT

This probably doesn’t directly answer your question but your WH is a frigging ahole. For him to even imply that being a SAHM isn’t a full time job and then some, deserves a swift kick in the nuts. IMO stay at home parents have the most important job on the planet taking care of the most precious people. If what you’re doing is so easy, hand it over to him. Guarantee he wouldn’t last a frigging week.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 4:46 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

Did your therapist or friend or whoever tel you to not tell your wife that others were better? I just don’t believe it!! Please advise. Thanks

A good therapist would advise to be honest. And I doubt would go into a suggestion like that at all.

I suffered from anxiety attacks every time I tried to initiate intimacy with my AP and couldn't function at all. And the few times that we did other physical things, yea, it wasn't even in the same solar system as sex with my wife, let alone better.

Given that some sexual addiction is pathological I can definitely see that the sex is acted out of compulsion - reducing high with every hit. Mechanical rather than emotional. Probably little more than masturbation?

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 4:09 PM, August 16th (Sunday)]

My question is this:

If you and your BS separated because your BS couldn’t stand your ongoing A and confusions any longer and initiated the separation.

Did the separation help you put things into perspective?

Did the separation and not having your BS in your life help you get out of the “fog”?

[This message edited by Merti at 12:35 AM, August 17th (Monday)]

Merti,

Why are you competing with the AP?

Either your WH is all in on wanting to work with you to reconcile and fix your marriage, or he is on the fence wanting best of both worlds.

I've never liked this 'affair fog' thing. It always sounds like a convenient excuse to start to rug sweep the real issues why the A happened.

I didn't separate, but I can tell you that if your WH is still in contact with AP then you are wasting your time trying to reconcile. You can't fix or change him. Only he can.

Dear WSs--

From what I've seen so far, most WSs on this site admit that they did not love their BSs at the time of the affair.

Is there any WS out there who feels they did love their partner during the A?

Any BS have a FWS who insisted they loved you during the A?

Thanks in advance!

Hi Hardknocks,

I loved my H at the time of my A. But I had a lot of anger towards him. I felt he valued his job (position at work) over me.

I wanted company. I got company. It just wasn't his company.

Not smart on my part. Embarrassed and ashamed of myself.

But yes, I loved him. Always have. Still do.

Hardknocks, a lot of us loved our BS during our affair, it just wasn't the right kind of love. It wasn't the kind of love that anyone would want or deserves.

Thank you, LD. Do you care to elaborate?

Full disclosure: I'm preparing a structured dialogue for MC tomorrow and I "get the floor" to address my topic of choice, facilitated by the awesome therapist. My topic will be a variation of "We Really Need to Be on the Same Page About Love."

I wish I'd thought of asking other WSs earlier. I am looking for that unique perspective from a former wanderer who is now enlightened.

Is there any WS out there who feels they did love their partner during the A?

If you're asking "Did you enjoy spending time with your BS, were they attractive to you, did you have great sex, did you miss them when they weren't around, did you like doing things to make them happy, did you still have dreams and plans for the future with them, was staying with them your Plan A," then the answer is yes.

If the question is "Did you have their back, did you keep your promises to them, did you respect their agency, did you put the needs of your relationship ahead of your own selfish desires and self-protection, did your actions reflect genuine care for their well-being," then the answer is no.

You need all of these things for real love.