SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

MrCleanSlate,

Thank you for your response.

In my case, and for many waywards, we tend to demonize our spouse and make the worst case for anything about our M so we can 'justify' the A.

He did exactly the same as he told me. In fact, he re-wrote our history so differently that I thought I was insane, and was hallusinating through all those wonderful years together. He even told me he killed me in his head to start A. Now that the craziness is over he tells me he never stopped loving me. He is still on the fence. He can’t leave me, he says. So I pushed him, and I am ready for whichever side he falls on.

Hikingout, thank you.

what I was doing was hurting him deeply and robbing him of his security. You can't do that while actively loving someone, the two things do not co-exist.

That is right. Another thing is, when look at him, I see that he looks very depressed and sad, he drinks to forget.. He can’t even help himself at this point so I stopped worrying about why he won’t help me/us and stop hurting me/us.

[This message edited by WhatisnowNew at 1:25 PM, August 12th (Wednesday)]

MrCleanSlate and others.

I am just at loss on this part of my WW story. After finally what seems like stopping her TT, she has stuck to this part. In fact this the part she 'disclosed' after hiding it of many years.

I have thought some about your response to my question:

Have any of you, ever heard of any man that was willing to cheat on his family, not be able to get an erection while perusing AP?

I can see how nerves, conscious, performance issues, etc can be involved. And I guess after several meetings ones comfort level could over come these things.

Did you discuss 'ED' (for lack of a better description) issue with you AP in the beginning?

Just trying to get a baseline on the possibilities, I know the truth is with my WW. TT causes BS to question everything

Yes, I think ED can be common in affairs. I will say that in our early years H and I did swinging, and it was common for him even in that scenario. It was common for a lot of men we encountered as well. I do not have an explanation for that, but I have seen other WW's say ED was something their AP experienced. This is not an umcommmon phenomenon.

I know at this point it's probably just more important for you to know she is being honest rather than whether it really happened or not, but I think it IS possible that it was an issue for him, and I have heard some WH claim it happened to them as well.

Hikingout,

Yes, I think ED can be common in affairs.

Really?! wow. I have been with plenty of partners when not married and never had that issue (not making light of it) but never have ever been a partner to infidelity. Could make difference. seems it does from what you and MrCleanSlate say.

I have seen other WW's say ED was something their AP experienced. This is not an umcommmon phenomenon.

I guess I am naïve in so many ways.

My WW says that after doing all she could do (minus oral, I don't know for sure, because I damn sure was not there to confirm) that the AP could not get an erection. She goes on to say this is when she stopped seeing him and took this as a sign from GOD she was in the wrong place in her life. (I am sure she missed a few other signs along the way, like wedding vows, but that is another conversation.)

She 'does not remember what was said about the ED' to the AP; but that she stopped the affair. (of course she was caught shortly later)

I know at this point it's probably just more important for you to know she is being honest

Yes it is trust and honesty that concerns me.

Her story seemed pretty incredible about the whole no intercourse due to 'ED'. But maybe it is possible it has some truth in it. In this instance it would be dang shocking and refreshing (the truth part)

Just trying to find the foundation of my marriage to rebuild from. I hope I have not offend anyone, I do need and appreciate your help.

I understand.

I do think it's common but of course I can not confirm or deny your wife's story. It did not happen in my specific situation that way, but the AP in my scenario was a serial. I don't think he wasn't crossing boundaries he hadn't many, many times in his marriage.

Do you know if this was a serial cheater that she was with?

Hikingout,

Thank you for your response.

Do you know if this was a serial cheater that she was with?

I don't know. My opinion of him is poor at best. His wife did not think he could cheat on her as she did not believe me when I told her.

Well the only reason I ask is not because it is definitive but I do think serial cheaters have learned to compartmentalize better and *might* be less likely to have the ED problem. But, a person cheating for the first time might have some barriers that create the ED?

I do know of a WW here who had an affair with a serial cheater and he had ED so I am not sure I am right about that at all or that it's any more information that can be relied on. I do believe her story, she has worked a lot on herself.

Hikingout,

I am getting some sensible and believable information on the whole 'lack of erection' issue.

Now who can address this 'our marriage is better because of infidelity' thing.

It's not like one can 'unkick' a dog. You can still pet him, feed him, but he will always be aware of where your feet are. Watch him flitch if you move fast.

I have seen it written that "our marriage is better DESPITE the infidelity". That's a big hill to climb.

That part I think takes a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of communication, and a lot of consistency by the WS. I don't think it's something you can talk yourself into or make yourself get to before you are there.

And, not every marriage will get there. That's not a reflection of you if that doesn't happen. I think my H and I are getting there...

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:34 PM, August 13th (Thursday)]

hollowhurt,

Now who can address this 'our marriage is better because of infidelity' thing.

My M was in the crapper well before my A. Neither I nor my BW were working on it or communicating.

After D-Day we woke up to the neglect in our M. As part of R and then fixing our M we made a lot of changes in how we communicate, deal with problems, value each other, etc. There would have been no point in going through R if we didn't change who we both were and our M.

So yeah, our M is 'better' today. I would say because of the efforts we made after the A. But my BW would not wish the 3+years of pain on anyone as a method of marriage counselling.

As a WS who's BS divorced them. How does it make you feel that your selfish ways have now made your BS have to change their life without a say so? My husband and I moved recently for his job with him knowing what he had done. So I just made a big change and now im going to have to make another. I was so excited to move and then when we got there i fell in love with it. I loved my life and now its gone. My husband gets to keep his. Same house, same dog and cat, same job, and same nice area. I have to pack up and start all over and I didnt even do anything.

MrCleanSlate and Hikingout,

thank you for you help and insights..

I’m moving my post. I originally posted it in the thread for those that found out years later. It’s been a few days since I posted and haven’t received any comments. I need some relief.

I’ve really been struggling lately and I’m not sure why. My dd was Sept 2019, almost a year ago. My husband told me that he cheated early in our marriage. We’ve been married 31 years. He says, he hasn’t cheated since.

He cheated with women that he said he had no attachment to. He met these women in bars and paid them to perform oral sex. He met these women prior to meeting me. It appears that he met all of us in the same year. He continued these relationships throughout our dating and continued with one of them several years after we got married. This is the one that I really struggle with. He said, that he thought it would be safer with one person. Okay!!!

Here is why I struggle with this one.... longevity, he allowed her to stay over one night ( he says that it was only one time), he performed oral sex on her twice, said she wasn’t clean and he didn’t continue. Says, no intercourse or kissing. “It was just sex”. He stayed in contact with her for years. He says, there would be months that he didn’t see her. She called him sometimes and he called her.

He says, that it was his belief that oral sex wasn’t something that a wife did. Keep in mind we had a good sex life, so I thought. I did realize that oral sex didn’t seem important to him. Now I know why, because he was getting it elsewhere.

I’m really struggling with the longevity of this relationship and that he can’t tell me when it ended. I find it difficult to believe

that anything is that “casual”. I really need to know when it ended. I’m not sure why I need to know but I do. Can sex be that casual? Has he really forgotten this information? Can you see someone over and over and not be attached? I’m not sure what I’m looking for. I don’t have anyone to talk to, so this is a way to release some of this negative energy. Thanks for reading!

I was emotionally attached to the OM, but I'm also a personality type that has never had an interest in casual sex. I have read many members here (some WS, but also BS referring to sex they had with others before marriage) who say they had long term sexual liaisons without romantic feelings. So yes, I think that statement, standing alone, is possible -- especially since your WS seems to have a Madonna/whore complex where he thinks it's inappropriate to ask his wife to perform oral sex.

If he hadn't admitted to paying them, I would think the situation didn't add up because I wouldn't see what the APs were getting out of such a one-sided arrangement. The money answers that question. It's a little weird that he performed oral on one of them, though. Maybe he just wanted to try it and decided it wasn't for him.

Does he say why it stopped? I can understand not being able to be precise decades later, but I would think he should be able to approximate within a year, at least. I'm in the "confessed years later" club, so I get that it can be hard to pinpoint, but there are usually some kind of landmarks (a vacation, a holiday, a crisis) that can narrow it down. And it is very, very normal for you to want to know.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 12:36 AM, August 14th (Friday)]

BraveSirRobin thank you for responding. He did not initially, tell me that he was paying these women. Like you I found it odd that it was so one sided and I kept pushing. He seemed extremely embarrassed and finally came clean.

The first one did not give him her telephone number; therefore, she controlled their encounters. She called him when she needed money. He says, that he doesn’t know her last name.

The second one he exchanged telephone numbers with

and they called each other through out the years. He met her sometimes weekly, several times a month and there were times that he would go months without seeing her. But just seems like more.

The reason that my WS claims that he only performed oral twice was because she wasn’t clean and had an odor.

He is very peculiar and odd in his way of thinking. He is socially awkward and admits to being a late boomer. I believe he paid for sex because he lacked confidence. By paying it minimized him being rejected.

He does have an approximate year, but I struggle with him not knowing the exact year. Again, I find it difficult to believe that anything is that casual. I’m just not sure how to move forward.

He says, that he stopped because he knew that it was wrong. Initially, he didn’t know how to be married and he continued living as a single man. He has been an excellent supporter and provider. I struggle with that answer. I’m not sure if things just fizzled out or what happened. He also said, that he was not able to control his sexual urges.

I’m not sure how to stop wanting to know. Some days I’m okay and sone days I’m a total wreck. We are the couple that people look up to.

I feel like I’m living a lie when someone says, to me or us what a good man he is, how I’m so blessed to have him, how much he adores me and how they want to be like us. I want to scream......No you do not want this PAIN!

BraveSirRobin thank you for responding. He did not initially, tell me that he was paying these women. Like you I found it odd that it was so one sided and I kept pushing. He seemed extremely embarrassed and finally came clean.

The first one did not give him her telephone number; therefore, she controlled their encounters. She called him when she needed money. He says, that he doesn’t know her last name.

The second one he exchanged telephone numbers with

and they called each other through out the years. He met her sometimes weekly, several times a month and there were times that he would go months without seeing her. But just seems like more.

The reason that my WS claims that he only performed oral twice was because she wasn’t clean and had an odor.

He is very peculiar and odd in his way of thinking. He is socially awkward and admits to being a late boomer. I believe he paid for sex because he lacked confidence. By paying it minimized him being rejected.

He does have an approximate year, but I struggle with him not knowing the exact year. Again, I find it difficult to believe that anything is that casual. I’m just not sure how to move forward.

He says, that he stopped because he knew that it was wrong. Initially, he didn’t know how to be married and he continued living as a single man. He has been an excellent supporter and provider. I struggle with that answer. I’m not sure if things just fizzled out or what happened. He also said, that he was not able to control his sexual urges.

I’m not sure how to stop wanting to know. Some days I’m okay and sone days I’m a total wreck. We are the couple that people look up to.

I feel like I’m living a lie when someone says, to me or us what a good man he is, how I’m so blessed to have him, how much he adores me and how they want to be like us. I want to scream......No you do not want this PAIN!

Were any of the WS here on SI as madly in love with your spouse as you were with the AP? I'm asking because I never knew my husband could be so crazy over someone, almost sick over the OW. He was never out of his mind in love with me, nor was I crazy in love with him. He now claims to be very much in love with me, but this doesn't make much sense to me. It's been 4 years since D day and this is still hard for me to overcome. Thanks!

Were any of the WS here on SI as madly in love with your spouse as you were with the AP?

Me. I could tell pretty early on that the OM would never have been a good prospect for a long term relationship, even if that had been what I was after. I found him funny and attractive, but he had other qualities that irritated the holy hell out of me. BH (BF, at the time) was clearly head and shoulders above OM.

What made the A addictive to me wasn't the way I felt about OM, but the way OM felt about me (or convinced himself that he felt, since he didn't know me nearly well enough to feel the kind of devotion he professed). I was very clear that I had no intention of leaving BF. My unattainability made me more desirable. I looked like a Cool Girl who wanted fun without drama or commitment. The real me was a mess of jealous insecurity, but that was invisible to OM because it wasn't directed at him. And so he treated me like the perfect girl I wasn't, and I basked in my counterfeit glory. I had serious self esteem issues, and I was pathetically grateful to have someone want me that much, even a man as flawed as OM.

Many affairs are a mess of hormones and best-face-forward and self-delusional fantasy. It does not surprise me that your husband's obsession melted away and left him wiping his eyes in disbelief.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 12:37 AM, August 14th (Friday)]

Many affairs are a mess of hormones and best-face-forward and self-delusional fantasy.

Yes. A thousand times yes.

I was and am in love with my BH. But I thought I loved the AP. But I didn’t love him for him. I loved him for me. How he made me feel about myself. How I viewed myself through his eyes. And all of that reinforced and encouraged behavior to reciprocate in order to get more of that directed back at me. And the more I got that from him the more I did to get more of it. Because I needed to feel good about me and this was my destructive way of doing that. See the theme? Me. Me. Me. A’s are the ultimate in selfishness. Not just because of the selfishness in choosing yourself over your BS and betraying him or her which is of course a huge thing, but because many times the entire A, it’s causes and the behaviors during all stem from selfishness. It’s all about the self.

For the couples that separated and got back together. How long did u separate? Did it change you as a WS? What about it made you want to change? What did u do to change? How did u show your BS you was changing while separated?