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This may be a stupid and futile effort but I feel the need to understand WHY and HOW some become APs. I read on SI of situations where affair ends, wayward returns to spouse/partner and works on reconciliation. Then some time later the AP is back in the picture ad brings even more devastation to the betrayed.
I just don’t understand how someone can do such a thing. Can someone shed some light?

I really wish I could. My STBXH's AP was a MCOW and she befriended me. For the year+ she was f****** my H she would invite me out for dinner and we'd hang out, just the girls. Looking back at the texts, she was the one usually reaching out to me. What kind of psycho does that? Did she get perverse pleasure out of hearing me talk about him and knowing what she was doing? I'll likely never know.

I'm really sorry - I don't understand how barking up the tree you've identified will help you heal.

It would take a book to meet that need, and you'd still be left with figuring out how each possible reason played a part in your own WS's A. Also, unless folks respond with exhaustive treatises, responses are bound to violate SI's guideline against generalizations.

So what do you hope to gain from finding out 'why and how some become aps'?

Gently, to solve your immediate problem, you need to focus on why and how your WS became a WS. To find answers to your general concern, the web is filled with speculation on that very topic.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:03 PM, Monday, July 31st]

If you read on OW forums..their reasons are pathetic.

They feel entitled to our spouse. They believe what they share is true love. Our poor husbands are sleeping on the couch,and only staying because of the kids. They believe our husbands are in sexless marriages, and it's up to them to satisfy their needs.

They feel these ways,because our husbands told them a boat load of lies,and they are eager to believe them.

We even see it here, with new OW/WW who show up. They believe he's in a bad marriage. The fact that the men have wives means nothing, because they haven't even really considered her as a human being.

It's all about them,and the poor WH. They believe hurried sex,in a car,in a parking lot,on lunch break, equals true love.

If it wasn't so terribly destructive towards the innocent BS and kids, it would be laughable.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:21 PM, Monday, July 31st]

My WH was also an AP as the OW was also married. We’re very early in the process but I can say he certainly has low self esteem and I truly believe any AP (who knows they’re an AP) would have to have poor self esteem. Why on earth would a healthy person accept that the person you’re involved with goes home every night to someone else? My WH says he never thought about AP’s husband and kids. He didn’t consider his own, why consider hers? They’re selfish individuals who are taking what they want from someone and really not caring about anyone but themselves.

Asking a BS to understand the mindset of the AP is an interesting question.

We can certainly understand the mindset from the BS’ personal experience with their particular APs.

But how do they get there in the first place? Hard to know.

I was friends with a girl in my 20s who was "in love" with her XBF (from high school). He had another GF who became his wife and my friend just could not believe he was using her. He would lie and say he’s leaving his wife blah blah blah. My friend (years later) dyed her hair the same color as the wife’s hair 🤪SMH.

The guy was a lying manipulative jerk and he strung her along for 10 years. The friend was pathetic and wasted 10 years on this jerk. She finally wised up and got out of the black hole she was in.

Her "love" clearly was co-dependence and addiction and stupidity. She never started out wanting to be the OW but she certainly allowed herself to become one. She lost all her friends b/c of her choices.

So there is another reason as to how or why someone becomes an AP.

Then some time later the AP is back in the picture and brings even more devastation to the betrayed.

The only way for an AP to be back in the picture is if they are allowed back in the picture.
Some never get the boot because the WS doesn't think the affair was a big deal, or doesn't want the inconvenience of making a scene to distance themselves from someone they are confident they are 'done with'. Some are simply invited back in by the WS because they're just not able to give them up. Some are persistent and pestering because the WS can't put their foot down. Some are flat out in love. The presence of ANY of them after D-day is the direct result of lack of action by the WS. Period.
A rare few are flat out crazy bunny boilers. Their presence is also on the WS for choosing a nut in the first place.

I just don’t understand how someone can do such a thing.

APs get a significant 'boost' from an affair - maybe as a 'savior' who's rescuing someone from a bad relationship - or as someone who's so amazing that they're the 'better choice' for your WS. Some just love the power rush of being in control. Some are just in love. They participate because they get something out of it. Why do they hang on?? Because they lose something if they don't.
For the BS, it's really easy to discount the AP's humanity - or what drives them - especially if they're a stranger. If the AP was a friend, it's also easy to villainize them because they aren't part of the family you're trying to keep together and you don't have to live with them. When assessing your WS as someone you want to reconcile with, it's much easier to blame an AP for their continued presence than it is to hold a WS accountable for it. That's part of the reason most WSs initially put most of the blame on their APs.. it's easier for us BSs to digest. That aside, if the AP is still in the picture, it's because the WS has empowered them to be there.

I think there are a lot of different reasons people become an AP. My husband was an AP too—both he and his affair partner were married. I don’t think either of them has particularly low self esteem. If anything, they esteemed themselves more highly than they did their spouses, and believed they were entitled to follow their feelings and get the pleasure and ego boost they wanted. My husband was going through difficult circumstances at the time and was emotionally vulnerable, and I suspect the same was true to a lesser extent for his AP. And I don’t think either of them was seeking out an affair—they just had poor boundaries, developed feelings for each other while working closely together on a work trip abroad, and then made the stupid, selfish, destructive choice to follow their feelings instead of turn back to their spouses.

That said, I agree with Sisoon. I don’t think trying to figure out APs is going to get you anywhere. If my husband’s AP comes back into his life, that’s on him. She has put out feelers pretty regularly since their affair ended. When my fear levels were higher and we were earlier in reconciliation I spent more brain space being angry at her and trying to figure out what the hell she was doing and why the hell she was doing it. I don’t understand her or her behavior; there’s no charitable explanation for it. But that’s ok—it’s not really my concern. There are always potential APs out there; my concern is my own healing and happiness and whether I’m in a healthy, satisfying relationship with someone who won’t betray me regardless of opportunity.

It's been almost two decades since my H went NC with the AP and I firmly believe that if he were to reach out to her now, she'd be willing fire the A back up in a heartbeat. I base this assumption on her Pinterest board that has hundreds of memes about unrequited love and the one that got away, even though she got married in the interim.

We had to contact the AP about a year after DDay and arrange a meeting to tell her about a practical matter. I knew that she likely wouldn't show up if she knew that I'd be there, so he asked her to meet him and she jumped at the chance. She was stunned when I walked out a few seconds behind him. I'm about 99% sure that she thought he wanted her back.

As to how and why she became an AP, I don't really fully get it. She was a BS, too. Her H left her, returned for false R, got her pregnant, then left her again and wouldn't have anything to do with the child. How one can experience that and then pass the betrayal pain on to another woman is beyond me. My assumption is that she was lonely and deeply scarred and wanted a man to take care of her, and when my H "fell in love" with her during their A, she got a huge charge out of it and cared way more about that than about hurting me. Again, based on her Pinterest, I think she thought/thinks that there were "meant to be" and is rather angry at me for getting in her way. She approached him several months after DDay and asked why he went back to me; he told her that he was in love with me. She cried. All along, she never spoke to me and solely directed any attempted contact his way. She's never said one word to me, even when we were standing in front her the day that we met. I'm just an inconvenience standing in the way of her happiness.

I've also read and commented on OW boards. They're chock full of entitled women who think their AP/WS is only married to the BS for convenience and would be with them if it weren't for the kids or money concerns. There are quite a few recovering APs who try to set them straight, but many would rather remain mired in their delusions of twoo wuv and entitlement than face the truth that their behavior is reprehensible.

What I don't understand is how many WSs can see the pain that they cause their BS and do it again. If they go back to the same AP, they're probably as delusional as the AP and think that it was "meant to be." If they cheat with a new partner, they're plain ol' selfish pricks, IMO.

if the AP is still in the picture, it's because the WS has empowered them to be there.

Nailed it.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 8:47 PM, Monday, July 31st]

My WW was approached by a coworker while he was yet unmarried. The A began in our first year of M. Both were on a school working schedule and over the summer break the AP got married. My WW was so angry he did that. You would have thought he did it to intentionally hurt her! After some time, they (now both are married) got back together to continue the A. Both are now APs.

Why did both return to the A? I don’t know. The thrills of doing something "naughty", the possibility of getting caught, their undying love for each other, who knows!?

My point is in this scenario there are 2 people hurting their spouses and wrecking their marriages. My guess is at THAT point in time, there must have been a disconnect in their heads which disabled their safety mechanism which is meant to protect the ones they love, enabling them to do whatever they want in order to please themselves at the cost of those around them.

FWIW I think in many cases it’s not the AP you know. It’s the AP you don’t know (as in the next affair hasn’t started yet).

Those crazy people lurking around who are just putting out feelers for the next bite.

Those subtle "innocent" hints or "conversations" etc. that start out harmless and could lead to something. Those are the situations that sneak up on you and can turn into affairs.

I think in some ways, I feel that if I can "understand" the AP and her behavior, I might find compassion/pity and be able to forgive.
Meaning, if she had childhood trauma, has past hurts, whatever.. that’s not to say it excuses her actions.
I just need to let go of my anger toward the AP.

The AP from my WH’s EA was a BS first. Her ex did a number on her; he was a serial cheater and at the end of the marriage had 5 APs going on at the same time. She suffered years of trauma, grief, agony before she finally pulled the plug on that marriage after about 15 yrs of dealing with his bullsh!t. You would think that KNOWING the pain her ex caused her and how much pain she went through that she would think twice about BECOMING an OW!! Nope. She jumped feet first into this EA - what made it worse was she was a family friend. Had known my WH since they were kids, their dads worked together, hell I thought she was MY friend!! After being exposed she tried to apologize to me over and over for being the OW. Someone she thought she’d never become. She said she was drowning in insecurity caused by her ex. But she was still drawn to engage in an EA with a married man. I don’t speak to her - and everything that comes out of her mouth is suspect anyway. So there’s that. She says she accepts her responsibility and her role in all this. I hold my WH and her equally culpable - she was not a stranger to me, she acted like my friend…for years!!!. She was damaged goods - he was seeking validation, it was like a perfect storm. I don’t understand wayward thinking and I certainly don’t understand AP thinking. I don’t dwell on the AP - I’m working on myself in IC.

[This message edited by Blackbird25 at 3:26 AM, Tuesday, August 1st]

I'm getting old. I've worked in the same place my entire career, and it is a place where people socialize frequently and work very closely. I have seen lots of affairs, although they rarely admit it (to me) if confronted.

The most common type I've seen is a married WH and a single, desperate OW. The women almost always ended things eventually (I noticed that I stopped seeing these people together) but it took years. If love is an action, I can promise you that what these women experienced as proof of the WH's unsatisfying M, his only staying for the kids, and his love for them was the fact that the OM was cheating on his WW and risking his entire M and reputation. If you have low self-esteem and are hoping to find Mr. Right, then watching someone make time for you, sneak around with you, and betray the person they already have is initially a huge compliment. It is only after years of gorging on bread crumbs, lies, and manipulation that these OW are able to see that they were actually used and that the OM actually wanted extra, not different. He felt entitled to more female attention, and when these women finally realized that (I heard through the grapevine), they left the A in shame it seemed.

I frequently ask myself how we can, as a society, keep lonely and desperate people--both men and women--from experiencing married attention as a compliment. How do we do that? I would never want my daughter to be involved in anything like this, but she is young and dumb. And so are millions of other young men and women. They think they are different, and it's almost impossible to convince them otherwise. If you have ever tried to enlighten an AP (I have), it is almost impossible. They usually take the A further underground and lie or sever the friendship entirely. They don't want to hear logic.

I am reminded of an old 80s movie, About Last Night. Demi Moore's best friend, Joan, has been seeing a married man. For the umpteenth time, as Joan sits in the bathroom crying, she turns to Debbie, Demi's character, and says, "He's never going to leave her, is he?" And Debbie, exasperated, says, "No, he's not ever going to leave her." And Joan bursts out crying all over again. I think of this scene a lot. This is the type of AP I have witnessed the most. They are pathetic and lonely and desperate, and someone has shown them some attention and affection, and they literally--and selfishly, so selfishly--jump at the chance. Without thinking about the big picture or the research or the end game. But if experience is the greatest teacher, then many, many APs (and waywards) will have to learn this lesson the hard way. Is the BS collateral damage? I think so.

Are there evil OW and OM? Sure. I've known a couple, and there is no doubt in my mind that they are personality disordered in some way. (They were both fired for other rule breaking.) I see stupidity in APs far more often than evil, but this is all my own experience and opinion. I think a lot of those OW websites are full of trolls who love to make up stories and push buttons. They know their audience. And pretending to be a very bad girl without a conscience is a fun gig for a troll. Stirring the pot gives bored trolls a night of entertainment.

So in the end, you can't fix stupid. And APs are so stupid. There's a sucker born every minute. It is far more beneficial to address our M and our wayward and do the work there than to give any head space to APs. Sure, there are a lot of feelings to work through first, but most of us end up in the same place--fixing the wayward.

I will say that as far as going bunny boiler, stupid people can get extremely angry when they see how they've been played. I am not defending them, just explaining that when they do realize and accept that they were used and played and lied to, they sometimes act out. How can they be the victims??? See evidence from above:

what these women experienced as proof of the WH's unsatisfying M, his only staying for the kids, and his love for them was the fact that the WS was cheating on his BS and risking his entire M and reputation. They think, "We must be THAT important."

Why wouldn't they think this since BS struggle with the same idea? The APs "trusted" this messaging. You don't have to agree, but that's their perspective. I've heard women say it. "His actions said he loved me, so I thought we were different."

Some members here have landed on the idea that the WS is the true culprit because he/she lied to both people to get extra. These members have said the AP and the BS were both played. What do you make of that opinion? I think it has a certain logic that forces us to keep our focus on the WS and the M, which I think is the greatest benefit toward healing our feelings about this.

Eta: I have a friend whose sister has been having an A for years and years--about 6 or 7 now. Wait, she alternates bringing her AP to family events and bringing her H to family events!!! WHAT?! And nobody in the family says anything. So why is this OM hanging around like this? It's obvious. He is desperate and believes her actions show commitment. Honestly, he is so pathetic. SHE, the WW, is the hot mess here! And the family who tolerates it! Unbelievable. Blaming the other man here is a huge waste of time because this woman is obviously the problem. Who could do this? The AP is embarrassing himself, but the WS is lying to both people, manipulating situations, compartmentalizing like crazy.

This, while an extreme case, is the type of A I usually encounter--a sad, stupid (SO stupid) AP and a wayward with the bigger issues.

I am reminded of the rhetorical question, "Is it better to be stupid or evil?" When you say Stupid, you keep your moral integrity (because you just didn't know) but lose your agency. When you say Evil, you keep your agency (because you knew exactly what you were doing) but lose your moral integrity. I think most (in my personal experience) APs retain their moral integrity but have zero agency. They simply wanted to believe crap that wasn't true and that justified what they were doing. While I feel most WS had agency the whole time (they knew what they were doing while telling all of those lies) but no moral integrity to stop them. Ouch. Can you learn to have moral integrity? To me, that feels like the much bigger problem here.

I realize that none of this addresses the evil, narcissistic, manipulative type of AP. These people do exist. But that's (to me) not as pressing as stupidity. And it's a whole other post too!!!

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:53 AM, Tuesday, August 1st]

At 40 years old, AP was 4 years into her third marriage when she cheated with EX. There was a broken engagement and another pregnancy in there as well. Morally bankrupt, no boundries - kind of says it all. She doesnt think about anyone but herself.

If love is an action, I can promise you that what these women experienced as proof of the WH's unsatisfying M, his only staying for the kids, and his love for them was the fact that the OM was cheating on his WW and risking his entire M and reputation. If you have low self-esteem and are hoping to find Mr. Right, then watching someone make time for you, sneak around with you, and betray the person they already have is initially a huge compliment.

Thanks for this and your entire post, Owning. What you said makes a lot of sense. If any person giving you attention makes you feel good, imagine how good it must feel to think you're so beautiful, so special, that a person will throw away their whole life for you.

I think in some ways, I feel that if I can "understand" the AP and her behavior, I might find compassion/pity and be able to forgive.

Meaning, if she had childhood trauma, has past hurts, whatever.. that’s not to say it excuses her actions.

I just need to let go of my anger toward the AP.

Your anger is in you. It is not dependent on anything any WS except your own does/has done/will do, and it doesn't much depend on what they do anyway, IMO.

Forgiving was, in my experience, very different from processing anger out of my body. I processed the anger to benefit my own health. Forgiveness was a matter of losing any desire to see my W punished more than she already was. I couldn't do that without processing my anger, but it was not a result of processing my anger, IMO - it came after anger, but it didn't have to come at all. BTW, when I did forgive, it was virtually a non-event.

How does my W's sitch affect you? I'll say this: putting aside her PTSD and CSA was an important element of my processing my anger. I was angry because she betrayed me. She fucked someone else. She gave someone else time she should have given me. She lied, lied, and lied some more.

I believe no one can fully process the anger that comes with being betrayed if one pays attention to possible reasons for the betrayer's actions.

And I believe no one can process their own anger unless they focus on their own anger, their own WS, their own sitch.

I understand the desire to find out about others' experiences. I can see that it's a phase that some/many/most/all BSes go through. But it's a dead end. It's a way of distancing oneself from one's pain. It prolongs the ordeal.

The only way to survive and thrive after being betrayed is to face and process one's own pain.

*****

As for the ap, I'm 12+ years out. I have seen her. If she were on fire next to my path on a walk, I think I'd walk on by. I'd try to help other people, and I know ap is a human being like me, but I think I'd just walk on by.

Recognize that whenever you think of the ap with any feeling at all, you're just feeling your pain. Focus on yourself, Cedarwoods. Process your pain, and you'll feel joy again.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:05 PM, Tuesday, August 1st]

I believe no one can fully process the anger that comes with being betrayed if one pays attention to possible reasons for the betrayer's actions.

sisoon, will you please expand on that? I find it incredibly intriguing.

I'm a hugely empathetic person who is easily able to see why people do the things they do. I'm a "why?" person. I need to mine out why things happen. And here I am, exactly 19 years post DDay (8/2/04) still feeling things that I think should have long been put to bed.

I'm also slowly creeping into the notion that I framed my H's actions like he was using my thought processes and my moral compass, not his. He's impulsive. He says he has a three-step decision making process, whereas mine is about 36 steps. I think things through. He tends more towards doing what he wants to do in the moment, though he says he wasn't just swept up into the A. He made a calculated decision to cheat. The risk was worth it to him, and that just doesn't compute for me. I'm extremely risk-averse. He is...not. In many ways.

Your anger/grief/fear/shame (my/their anger/grief/fear/shame, too) stand alone. They need no excuse. They well up within you. You are the only one who can process the feelings out of your body.

My W is a CSA survivor, and the CSA really hurt her. I'm sure the damage from the CSA played a part in her cheating, because it played a big part of her life. She was victimized. I had and have great sympathy for her.

To heal, though, I had to put my sympathy aside and just feel my anger. The fact is she hurt me. That's what I had to deal with, irrespective of why she hurt me. Her reasons didn't matter.

Focusing on 'why' and 'how' is often a way of distancing oneself from oneself. It's also often a way of thinking one controls something one can't control.

Don't get me wrong. I asked a lot of questions every day for months.

Here's the thing: if the WS focuses on why, there are a number of ways that can pan out. The WS can find out their why and not change. The WS can find their why and use the info to get better at cheating. Neither helps the BS.

To R, the WS needs to change from cheater to good partner.

The BS can focus on the WS's whys - but that doesn't heal either BS or WS. Processing feelings heals.

My thought process and situation follows the same line as Grievings:

I think there are a lot of different reasons people become an AP. My husband was an AP too—both he and his affair partner were married. I don’t think either of them has particularly low self esteem. If anything, they esteemed themselves more highly than they did their spouses, and believed they were entitled to follow their feelings and get the pleasure and ego boost they wanted.

They are not the same. Some don't want a permanent attachment. Some get financial assistance. Some are actively looking for affairs while others sort of end up in them due to poor boundaries and a whole host of other things.

The AP in my world was married, and on discovery she and my WH continued their A, even after I informed the OBS, twice. She then messaged me blaming me for trying to ruin her son's life (he was 4 so I certainly didn't inform her son lol) by informing her husband of the A. I mean how do you logic yourself around that reaction? You can't - she's just so deep in her own BS I don't even know how anyone could even think that nevertheless say that.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 5:14 PM, Wednesday, August 2nd]