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Torn

Topic is Sleeping.
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bob7777 ( member #79867) posted at 5:47 PM on Saturday, August 5th, 2023

@sisoon

You have a choice either you move on or you have to accept that you will be in a relationship that resembels to having or living with a roommate only that you are legally bound to that roommate.

Especially for lurkers:

Actually there are several other options as well.

You can move on by running from your pain ... a combo of D and rug-sweeping your feelings.
You can consider all options and pick the one that seems to maximize your joy.
You can stay for the kids.
You can stay for finances.
You can choose D but delay in order to prepare for life after D.
You can delay a choice until your head, heart, and gut agree on your course of action.
You can choose R blindly.
You can choose to stay as a marriage police person.
You can choose to build a new M that serves you both.

I'm sure you realize that the plethora of your "options" either lead to "moving on" or to staying, the only thing that seperates "your options" is the different approach/motivations. So the result is the same. I'm sure you are able to see it yourself, that's why I'm confused by your reply, because I generally would take your comment in good faith, but your comment shows a level of potential gaslighting and that makes me feel funny because as a moderator, even if you likely commented as a private person, I hold you to a higher standard in this forum. If I misunderstood you in any case than please feel free to elaborate.

posts: 106   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2022
id 8803423
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 6:58 PM on Sunday, August 6th, 2023

I don't understand how my comment is gaslighting.

SI members have chosen every one of the options I listed, and more.

Results count, but so do motivations and methods.

No one can guarantee the results of going or staying, especially because the results occur and may change over time. Going is different for different people, and so is staying.

IMO, motivations and methods are at least as important as results. Methods are actions. They're chosen in the moment, and each of us has the ability to choose our actions.

Some motivations are bound to be hidden; some can be conscious. For example, I know why I chose R - but I don't know why the parameters that led to R were more important to me than those which would have led to D ... some motivations were conscious, some hidden.

I know I've just posted some sentences that may or may not be related to each other. If you clarify what you mean by 'gaslighting', perhaps I can respond in a more organized way.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29994   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8803487
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Dennylast ( member #78522) posted at 10:22 PM on Sunday, August 6th, 2023

Ozzie, I will not say you need to tell the OBS today. But you need to tell her her at some point. It appears that your wife is trying to turn a corner. At least I hope she is for your sake. But I do believe you need to let your wife know that at some point in the future the OBS will have to be told. In that conversation you can tell her that protecting OBS from what the two of you agreed to do is not morally right, and by her not wanting to tell OBS when you do, she is choosing to protect her AP over your desires. If she argues that he is not her AP because you agreed to the hookups. You can tell her that your wife is OBS husbands AP and that is morally wrong what she did. This telling the OBS does not have to happen until your wife stops seeing her AP as someone good but rather someone morally corrupt. You can decide the timing but I would advice you to bring this situation to your wife attention that for you to feel good about yourself as a moral person this will have to happen at some point. This subject will allow you to gage your wife’s response to this request because only a cheater who truly sees what he/she what he/she has done as truly awful will agree to this. If you have this discussion and she disagree tell her that’s fine but you are not going to be happy until this happens and you will reopen this topic in future in hopes that she moves a little closer to your desires and away from protecting AP.

posts: 150   ·   registered: Mar. 17th, 2021
id 8803509
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de.va.sta.ted ( member #22922) posted at 8:04 PM on Friday, August 25th, 2023

Can I just add a bit of insight regarding kids?

I really loved my family and my ex-husband. When he cheated on me, I still loved my husband. I stayed for him and especially for the kids.

Long story short, he cheated again 9 years later, and we separated and finally divorced.

Selfishly, I'm glad I spent my kids childhood with them full-time, but I really wonder if I did THEM a big favor.

I think I carried a melancholy within me, knowing that my husband had loved someone else, been physically close to someone else. They didn't know but I suspect they felt it, and I am afraid it will have an impact on their choices as adults - accepting less than a totally committed, loving and loyal partner.

I only put this forward so you consider that putting your kids first doesn't mean putting yourself second. You are forever a role model to them.

Finally, I am now with someone who loves me in a totally different way, and it's so different. I wish my kids had seen this relationship as they were growing up.

Me: BW Him: WH D-Day 1: February 2009 D-Day 2: April 2018 Divorced!

posts: 1049   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2009
id 8805633
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 3:00 PM on Tuesday, August 29th, 2023

Been a couple of weeks. We (finally) had our first MC session last week. The therapist seemed very good, to the point and asking the right questions. From my point of view it was a very useful first session because

1) She tore my wife a new one, and

2) After the session, though my wife was in tears and absolutely hated the experience, she thought the therapist was very good and wasn't speaking negatively about the experience.

Gives me hope that she is more accepting of what has happened, and will be willing to put the work in. Long way to go but it is a first step.

I think I carried a melancholy within me, knowing that my husband had loved someone else, been physically close to someone else. They didn't know but I suspect they felt it, and I am afraid it will have an impact on their choices as adults - accepting less than a totally committed, loving and loyal partner.

Thanks for this, it is a very good point that I have been thinking about a lot. I haven't been happy (obviously) very much in the last 6 months. But in the last couple of months that has started to change, and I don't feel like I carry any melancholy within me. Of course I can't go on forever with someone that isn't 100% committed, but as I have said before I am willing to give this chance. I said previously that I had thought new year was a decent timeframe to aim for to see where things stand, and our MC pretty much lasts exactly till then. So we will reassess then.

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8805916
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Dennylast ( member #78522) posted at 2:31 PM on Thursday, August 31st, 2023

Where are you guys at from an intimacy pov? Are you living as husband and wife or roommates? Forgive me if you have mentioned this before and I missed this. I ask because you said she is trying very hard to get feelings back for you. If this is true you should be living as husband and wife. I will end with saying she does seem to be trying. So that is good. I am rooting for you Ozzie.

posts: 150   ·   registered: Mar. 17th, 2021
id 8806058
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asc1226 ( member #75363) posted at 3:31 PM on Thursday, August 31st, 2023

An MC who doesn’t think that accountability is a dirty word is definitely a plus.

I make edits, words is hard

posts: 612   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8806064
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WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 10:17 PM on Thursday, August 31st, 2023

Did you tell the OBS yet.

posts: 905   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
id 8806092
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HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 3:52 AM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Agreed with WBFA, did you tell OBS yet?

Me mid 40s BH
Her mid 40s WW
1 year EA/PA

"Just" a friend.in R, getting by

posts: 396   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8806114
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 4:20 AM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

She's going to keep dragging her feet as long as you let her.

You are in fancy limbo. I was in fancy limbo for a while. It's still limbo.

Shit in one hand and want in the other. See which fills up first.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2656   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8806115
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 2:16 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

He will never tell the boyfriend's wife.(I can't call her an OBS)

He's been clear that his wife will leave him,and break up the family, if he tells.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6711   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8806161
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 3:29 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

What do you mean by the MC "tore your wife a new one"?

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1973   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8806244
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 5:54 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

No, haven't told (O)BS. Realistically I doubt it will happen now. If there is any further contact it will, but otherwise I think this whole episode is in the past so it would just reopen wounds.

@Dennylast, there has been activity in that regard. Early days but as you said, she's trying and is very much keen to explore why her feelings went the way it did with the MC.

@BTB: my wife attempted the whole "he agreed to it" spiel and the MC said "its clear he would have preferred you didn't though, and you did it anyway. You weren't thinking about the marriage" etc. Things I have said to her repeatedly but coming from a professional it stung her hard.

@TIF:

She's going to keep dragging her feet as long as you let her.

You are in fancy limbo. I was in fancy limbo for a while. It's still limbo.

Shit in one hand and want in the other. See which fills up first.

What does this mean? Would you say this for every couple trying to R? Why do you say this here?

As an aside, I know the whole (O)BS thing is triggering, but surely couples have Rd without that element? May as well ask as I know there is no chance of that element being dropped (and as always I will say I'm not saying never, just not now. I should've told before anything had happened but I don't have a time machine)

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8806288
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HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 6:50 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Why do the three of you get to hold on to the secret knowledge of the affair but the OBS gets shit on?

As the OBS who was shit on by being the only one not to know, I am telling you it’s bullshit not letting her know. She probably already suspects something and is torturing herself with "he would never, I’m just seeing things" or any of the many other gaslighting or abuse.

It feels like you’re scared of OBS knowing because it could damage or even stop your R. If it could, then your marriage is toast anyway.

Me mid 40s BH
Her mid 40s WW
1 year EA/PA

"Just" a friend.in R, getting by

posts: 396   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8806290
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 8:11 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Have you ever read the hundreds of reasons the BS here have told you,as to why it's good to tell the BS of the other guy? Reasons given by those who have reconciled,and by BS who were told by the OBS? Or have you simply skimmed past them,because you are so opposed?

I have to believe you've never bothered to find out why it's so necessary, because anytime you speak about it,you always dismiss it as a silly idea.

You have claimed 2 things. You say you enthusiastically gave consent for your wife to explore her feelings,and have sex, with another man. You also say you didn't really want to give consent, but did so anyway because she was Hell bent on being with this man. Which is the actual truth?

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6711   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8806294
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 8:21 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Things I have said to her repeatedly but coming from a professional it stung her hard.

There were so many things that I said to H that he just didn't GET until he heard it from MC. My favorite was when we argued about H wanting to resume a normal coworker relationship with the AP. We fought for days about it, then took it up with the MC. MC said, "You can't treat her like you'd treat your other coworkers because you didn't fuck your other coworkers." BOOM. (I love our MC. He's so direct. lol)

IMO, true R is about being authentic and in integrity. If you're not telling the OBS because you're afraid that your wife will leave you if you do, that's not authentic R and it's not being integrity with the truth with all parties who may be affected by it, knowingly or not. Lay the truth out there and let the chips fall where they may. Are you afraid that the OBS will leave the AP and that your W will leave you to be with him?

Also, like others have said, you would want the OBS to tell you if the roles were reversed, wouldn't you?

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 8:23 PM, Friday, September 1st]

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1298   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8806295
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 8:44 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Ozzy,

Sorry if I was a little flippant in my previous response. You say what things you want and what things she wants. I haven't heard what the path is to get there or that you are doing anything other than giving it a try.

Until your WW is taking proactive measures to work toward R and you have established your relationship needs that she is working towards, you are in limbo.

Maybe too much of a generalization coming. Wayward choose both as long as both is an option. That means if you will be satisfied or stick around for anything less than full commitment from her to meet your needs, she will do less.

I would give that advice to anyone "trying" R. Not anyone in R.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2656   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8806297
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 3:15 PM on Saturday, September 2nd, 2023

It's still limbo.

What does this mean? Would you say this for every couple trying to R? Why do you say this here?

I agree with SacredSoul33 when she says

If you're not telling the OBS because you're afraid that your wife will leave you if you do, that's not authentic R and it's not being integrity with the truth with all parties who may be affected by it, knowingly or not. Lay the truth out there and let the chips fall where they may. Are you afraid that the OBS will leave the AP and that your W will leave you to be with him?

.In R, partners risk losing the M to save it.

You're not healing. You're letting the wound get covered up. It will probably become an abscess in you, your W, and your M.

Take the risk: tell OBS. It's exactly because of the possible nasty consequences that you need to do it. You can't R if you don't address the issues in front of your face.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29994   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8806343
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Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 4:24 PM on Saturday, September 2nd, 2023

This whole saga started as exploring ENM for both your wife and you. Turned into non-ethical non-monogamy pretty soon with the OBS not knowing and your wife catching feelings for the guy. You are moving heaven and earth to correct the non-monogamy bit but the non-ethical part still remains. After pages and pages of responses you still wonder/question/ask about OBS knowing. The non-ethical part doesn’t bother you. Your ENM experiment comes at the cost of another marriage and another woman’s life. Essentially this is a massive non-ethical F up caused by three immature selfish individuals. One is crying foul because it didn’t go as smoothly as he hoped.

What all three of you need is a good moral science lesson , a very basic one.

posts: 284   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2023
id 8806351
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hardyfool ( member #83133) posted at 3:21 AM on Sunday, September 3rd, 2023

@Abalone123

That is the most insightful post on this situation. I hope the OP reads and really reflects upon it.

posts: 139   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2023
id 8806385
Topic is Sleeping.
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