SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If you think that staying married to a woman who doesn’t desire or respect you is in the best interest of your kids, that’s certainly an option. You won’t be the first person to make that decision and I won’t fault you if you do… as long as you are able to accept that reality and live with it.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 7:23 PM, Monday, July 31st]

P.S. Another thing to consider is the fact that just because you might be willing to remain in a loveless marriage doesn’t mean that she will. After all, she’s already pursued her passion elsewhere.

So just because she says she doesn’t want to split up right now doesn’t mean she won’t decide to jump ship in the future… most likely after she’s found a better option. Her OM wasn’t available; maybe the next guy will be.

I am going to take inspiration from InkHulk though and call out comments that I feel are unacceptable in this thread.

Give’m hell, Ozzy

In all seriousness, I truly believe everyone here wants good for everyone in the community, it just sounds different for different folks. I truly wish you well in your journey.

As someone who also used the I'm done if you move out ultimatum, that only delays the inevitable. If the WS doesn't have a clear desire to fight for the M on their own, they are not a candidate for R. From what you say, she wants to keep up the appearance of a happy family. Why wouldn't she? Personally, I'd let her go and move forward to D. That would have saved me additional months of pain where I found I was the only one putting everything into making the M work.

Sorry for your pain.

Please listen to Bluer.

"But she has admitted she can't find the right feelings for me..... YET"

I should have added that key word. She desperately wants to. She doesn't understand why they are not there. She hopes (as do I) that over time they will return.

To be absolutely clear, I am not saying everything is fixed! But I can see a chance now.

BTB:

The best thing you can do is allow your wife experience what life is like without you as her husband appliance. It’s the only way to kick her— and yourself— off the fence.

When she came up with the house idea, I said in no uncertain terms, if that is what you need, go for it. But I can't imagine that I will be able to come back from the damage that will do to the kids. We were all set to do it, I was ready to move on. It feels to me that the finality of that hit her hard. So I think we are hopefully on the path to recovery without having to do the separation bit. Is there any point in disrupting the kids lives for the sake of it if the desired result is already there?

You have been paralyzed by fear by what separation would entail. Maybe this will demystify the process and you will realize that you can live without her.

I don't think so. To the contrary, I think my willingness to go with the separation has made all the difference.

If you think that staying married to a woman who doesn’t desire or respect you is in the best interest of your kids, that’s certainly an option. You won’t be the first person to make that decision and I won’t fault you if you do… as long as you are able to accept that reality and live with it.

I can live with it for now.... I can't accept it forever. But I am willing to give it time. The alternative for me is the end, and I have more fight in me than that.

Her OM wasn’t available; maybe the next guy will be.

I certainly see why you would think that this could happen, but I truly don't think so.

uncomfortablynumb:

It really sounds like she's calling all the shots here. What do you want and on what terms? Are you genuinely prepared to lose the marriage to have a chance at saving it?

I was, yes. And as I just mentioned, I think it was the fact that I was ready to go for it that has freaked her out. Especially since I was the one saying I don't think I will come back from this whereas she thought it would be a separation that would help things.

jb3199:

Yes, the children should always be top priority, but is that what they are really getting from you? This family dynamic is what they should model themselves after as they grow?

Honestly, the family dynamic (other than a few fights as we approached rock bottom) is very, very good. I don't know how else to put it. I know that kids pick up on things but we (I think) have done a pretty good job at keeping this between us. Now that we are hopefully on the way back up I think it will show them that relationships can go through a rough patch (hopefully for their sake never this rough) and come out the other side.

Grieving:

In your shoes, if it was at all financially tenable, I’d be honest with her. I’d say, "it’s my hope that our marriage will work, but I won’t allow myself to continue in a situation with someone who is ambivalent about how they feel about me." And then Id rent the apartment.

Yeah, that does make sense. But my brain was so far down the path of "This is so fucked up, if she is willing to blow the kids lives up as well then I am done" that I wanted her to make that call. I really think there wouldn't be a way back. So the fact that she has had the snap in her brain without even doing it (I anticipated 2 weeks of using it, and 2 weeks too late) can only be a good sign right?

fareast:

You both agree you have a better chance at "R" if you don’t rent the house. But what does this "R" look like? Especially to your WW? If you stay in the same house it will help alleviate her shame and guilt for tearing up the kids lives due to her selfish choices. But what next? If you stay together is she going to be actively working to retake her passion for you? Or does it mean maintaining the status quo living together as roommates being civil in a sexless and passionless M? How is this "R" going to work. Notice I have not even mentioned the work she should be doing to be a trusted partner worthy of you. And make no mistake, some people do live in such marriages. You get to decide. I hope you decide to value yourself. Good luck.

Well I hope (and need) it to be that feelings come back. And I am starting to see signs of that. It certainly won't happen overnight though... she is very introspective now, grabbing me randomly and talking through how fucked up she has been. I can only report the positive signs I am seeing. Until recently this hasn't been the case.

Dennylast:

So there is no more "you agreed to do this" from her? She is owning that this is her mistake alone? She wants to feel love for you but can’t muster up those feelings, is that where she is now?

All correct, but I am seeing signs by the day that she is starting to come out of the fog. She said again this morning how fucked in the head she was, and that POSOM could have been anyone, it was her mindset and lack of self esteem that resulted in the situation. She seems to be owning it. I have my radar on though, don't worry.

You could write a list of things she can do to show you love and discuss it. Obviously sex should be on that list with many other actions. You cannot do this on her terms. It will not work. You have got to create terms of your own. This is just an idea what have you got to lose at this point. I don’t expect many others to agree with this however.

I haven't written a list as such, but this is a good idea. I have spoken to her about some of the ways that I feel her lack of showing me love has been noticeable, and she acknowledges that. As things progress and we talk things through more this was definitely something that I was going to work on with her though.

Let me be straight with you. I feel the "staying for the kids" maybe just part of the reasons for you unable to take up for yourself in this Marriage. I get the feeling there is at least one more reason. If you could be honest with that we might be able to talk you through that. Let me just end with saying it is very frustrating dealing with you. Why is that? Because I want you to be happy and you seem to stumble over yourself at every turn. I hope this helps you.

More than happy for you to ask these things as you've been such a support. I mentioned ages ago the fact that I live 12000 miles from my family. I am sure this is part of me having a higher tolerance to putting up with bullshit. This isn't just my marriage, it is my entire world. And I also make no apology for holding the needs of my kids above my own. Everyone has their limit, and I am sure I have mine, but I haven't reached it yet. Doesn't mean it won't happen! Does that help?

Hellfire:

I know we haven't seen eye to eye in the past. I was sorry to read about your situation, was going to post but wasn't sure if you would want to hear from me. In any case you have my support.

You seem to use the kids as an excuse, a lot, when talking about what you want,don't want,etc. It's ok to say you don't want her to move out,because YOU are scared that she will contact the boyfriend and start things back up...or you're scared that if she moves out,she won't move back in.

Yeah, kids first, me second. But as I just said, if my limit is reached, then I will be done. Don't know where that limit is, but don't think I am wallowing away. I feel the strongest I ever have, both physically and mentally. And on the second bit, not scared about her contacting him (not an ex-boyfriend, a fling from years ago, if that makes a difference). And if she moves out, I don't want her to move back in. I am ready for that. She is the broken one, and she is working on fixing that. But I am willing to give things a chance first.

Stillconfused:

I hope you have a timeframe in mind of how long you will give her to get out of this fog. You are real and not a fantasy. She seems to think she needs to be daydreaming about you all day like some 18th century novel. For the sake of your kids you are being the grown up in the room. Just make sure she knows she can’t be a toddler forever.

I think I mentioned earlier it was pretty much 6 months to the day of heading down to rock bottom (deposit paid), and now 2 weeks on the way up. I think 6 months seems realistic (so basically to new year) to see where we end up. If we are not where we want to be, then I am ready to end things. This isn't just words on a forum, I do mean it.

Abalone:

You are lucky this AP decided to hold on to his marriage , I doubt because of moral or ethical reasons. Have you thought about what happens when she meets the next person she finds a connection with that won’t have issues getting together with her?

I really, genuinely don't think this situation will come up again. It was the perfect storm of bullshit. Either we will work things out or we won't. Either way she is seeing more and more by the day what this actually was. For those that have reconciled, what was the trigger for you realising that this was true for your WS?

Unsure:

Second verse, same as the first!

Cool, thanks.

Lurkingsoul:

I am sorry this has happened to you. You dont deserve this, but you got to let go at some point and move on. You should just let go of her. Accept the reality and find peace with it. This situation sucks but it is what it is. Find a way for healthy Co-parenting for your children sake. The renting house thing is a good idea. Go with it.

In the gap of almost 2 months between posting, a lot happened and I was ready, and accepting of that reality. That is why I think we have both hit the turning point. It has hit her that I was willing to let it go, and has hit her that she was willing to destroy her whole family unit over what was a complete mess and fantasy. I can't stress enough it is early days and I am not getting carried away though.

Inkhulk:

Give’m hell, Ozzy wink

In all seriousness, I truly believe everyone here wants good for everyone in the community, it just sounds different for different folks. I truly wish you well in your journey.

Haha thanks!

Yeah I know everyone has everyone's future at heart. Spending time reading other people's stories it strikes me how different everyone is and how different their situations must be, even if they sometimes read similarly.

Hope you enjoy your break from media (so hopefully won't even read this!)

Grubs:

As someone who also used the I'm done if you move out ultimatum, that only delays the inevitable. If the WS doesn't have a clear desire to fight for the M on their own, they are not a candidate for R. From what you say, she wants to keep up the appearance of a happy family. Why wouldn't she? Personally, I'd let her go and move forward to D. That would have saved me additional months of pain where I found I was the only one putting everything into making the M work.

Totally get where you are coming from. I told her that if we cancel the house it isn't about safety, the boys, happy families. It has to be because you want us to work out and be better than we were before. She gets it and wants that.

TLDR: I think we are going to cancel the house and make a go of it. Give it 6 months, see how we both feel, see how much her therapy has helped her (I don't feel the need right now as feeling strong but might do some more therapy myself if need be).

If things are not how they should be after that then I cannot hold my head higher that I have done everything I can to keep my family together (because I want to, not because anyone else has pressured me to) and can then move on with the next phase of my life.

Let me know if any of this doesn't make sense, or if I am doing anything glaringly wrong based on this essay.

Thanks all.

What is the harm in renting the home for 1 year so that you have it(if you can afford it)? Your WW doesn't want to be the person that disrupted the kids lives and wants to move time along living under one roof, until you can no longer take it and then you are the parent that broke the family up.

Wanting to want something is much different that actually wanting it.

We certainly don't have enough money to justify having an empty property sat there....

No one here can know if what you plan is glaringly wrong. IMO, proximity to each other gives you the opportunities to rekindle formant love and to get on each other's nerves. Both help you make permanent decisions.

You have to rely on yourself to know if you're making a good decision now. Do you really think you're going into this with the strength and perspicacity to recognize whether it's going well or not?

What will you do if it's going to hell - address issues and demand your W work with you to resolve them, or will you swallow your thoughts/feeling/pain and avoid conflict?

Have you and your W defines the M you want?

Do you have requirements for R, and have you received your W's agreements to meet them? Do you know how to monitor your (combined) performance to meet them?

It's very obvious to the BS here, why your wife can't seem to get her feelings back for you. She still thinks she loves OM. She still has good feelings about the relationshipshe had with him. There is only one sure way to kill her feelings for him,and what they shared. But you won't do it. And many are done trying to get you to understand how that will help you.

That's all I will say about it.

What does your self esteem look like? What was it like before the relationship she had with OM? How about now?

What's your greatest fear?

How old are the kids?

What work is your wife doing,to become a safe partner? What work is she doing on herself?

Thank you for your concern about my situation. It's truly appreciated.

But she has admitted she can't find the right feelings for me..... YET"

I should have added that key word. She desperately wants to. She doesn't understand why they are not there. She hopes (as do I) that over time they will return.

Love is a verb. It requires actions. It takes work and nurturing to maintain. Unless she is putting in that work, she will not find it.

Are the two of you familiar with the 5 Love Languages? Do you know what your personal love languages are? If she has a better understanding of each other’s love languages, it will help her to work on loving actions. Those actions in turn bring on feelings.

She has to be willing to get dirty with you and become vulnerable. That willingness to be so raw with someone else provides a bond.

Love doesn’t happen on our best behavior. It happens when we are willing to let someone see our worst insecurities.

I hope she is willing to get there for you, with you.

It's very obvious to the BS here, why your wife can't seem to get her feelings back for you. She still thinks she loves OM. She still has good feelings about the relationshipshe had with him. There is only one sure way to kill her feelings for him,and what they shared. But you won't do it. And many are done trying to get you to understand how that will help you.

If you got up the courage to tell the OBS, your WW's reaction would be all you need to know. I'm not convinced you really want to know.

I believe your issue at hand is what troubles all BS, to make a decision for themselves regardless their WS. It's almost in every post, BS finds out about the cheating, the betrayal, the loss of respect and has this inner fight about the acknowledgment of what happened. You have a choice either you move on or you have to accept that you will be in a relationship that resembels to having or living with a roommate only that you are legally bound to that roommate.
When one finds out that their relationship is not what it seemed it should be like, betrayal, cheating etc, you should take off your rainbowy glasses and start thinking pragmatically but I sense that you still put a lot of focus on hope.
If you can live with someone who "cheated" on you with an ex and doesn't love you and doesn't find you attractive anymore then do it, no judgement from me. It's your decision. But you should be aware what comes with it.

"But she has admitted she can't find the right feelings for me..... YET"

Yeah, that's copium, I'm sorry. You had another post where you asked about the loss of attraction. Either there is attraction or there is none. Don't make the mistake by thinking if you sit by her side then someday or suddenly she's gonna develop some attraction for you again, if she tells something like that it's just pity. There a factors which influence attraction but there won't be any in a dead relationship where the BS just sits idly by.
But let's entertain that thought "But she has admitted she can't find the right feelings for me..... YET". Why don't you seperate or divorce and go on about your life and if/when she develops feeling for you then you start thinking about getting back together? I think this is a better solution for you taking your wife's word for face value.

You have a choice either you move on or you have to accept that you will be in a relationship that resembels to having or living with a roommate only that you are legally bound to that roommate.

Especially for lurkers:

Actually there are several other options as well.

You can move on by running from your pain ... a combo of D and rug-sweeping your feelings.
You can consider all options and pick the one that seems to maximize your joy.
You can stay for the kids.
You can stay for finances.
You can choose D but delay in order to prepare for life after D.
You can delay a choice until your head, heart, and gut agree on your course of action.
You can choose R blindly.
You can choose to stay as a marriage police person.
You can choose to build a new M that serves you both.

I can think of more options, but I think the point has been made that we have many more than 2 options.

*****

Attraction is not either-or. I imagine we all have had experiences in which initial attraction has waned as we have gotten to know the object of our attraction.

My bet is that we've also all had the experience of finding someone attractive after getting to know them despite initially not finding them attractive.

*****

Having written the above, I'll also write that proximity has been known to increase attraction and decrease it. My reco is to set a time limit for how long you'll wait - create a boundary. I'd probably share that boundary with my WS, but there are arguments for and against sharing.

I'd definitely set a boundary, though. How long will you let yourself wait?

And what's keeping you from pulling the plug now? If it's fear, you're doing yourself a disservice.

Ozzie, why haven’t you and WW not had sex yet?
How long has it been?
I am asking these personal questions because you say she desperately wants to regain her feelings for you. What better way to do that than start having loving sex again. Unless it is you that is holding back on that. But let me say this. If it is her that does not want sex with you and yet she desperately wants to regain her feelings for you. I’m calling bull sh!t on that.

Ozzy,

If you tell the OBS....

1) Most likely OM will completely throw your WW under the bus, OM may even send her a no contact letter or email.

2) Your WW will be devastated by this rejection as OM is likely to say cruel things like WW was only sex, never loved etc

3) You will kill the vampire who still has an emotional hold on your WW

4) You will know if OM is still able to contact your WW

5) Your WW will feel bad about the consequences OM had to face, that's a good thing

6) You will establish that you will stand up to any future OMs

It sounds like she may be moving past some of this; I hope it continues.

You have probably seen here at SI that the process for a WS to "come out of the fog" or exit limerence or whatever you want to call it.... it's complicated. Some snap out of it right away, some declare they want their marriage immediately but then pine to some varied extent for the AP for days, weeks or months. Some are on the fence for a few weeks or many months. Some never snap out of it and leave their BS either for their AP or they just leave.

I wouldn't give up hope yet. No pick me dancing in the meantime. Work toward R, work on yourself.

[This message edited by Trdd at 5:55 PM, Wednesday, August 2nd]

Sissoon:

IMO, proximity to each other gives you the opportunities to rekindle formant love and to get on each other's nerves. Both help you make permanent decisions.

Thank you. Thank you. This comment puts into words exactly what I was struggling to get my head around. If we separate, we blow the kids lives up, and then at some point she says "Oh, we've had some time apart, I miss you, come back." The kids are all WTF, I am thinking well how many days until she loses feelings for me, etc etc. As things currently are, they are on the way up. If it all goes to shit, then we end it. All sounds pretty simple in theory!

As for the rest of your post, I am considering what my requirements are but that will certainly be a conversation. Just letting the dust settle a little bit. We have been on a waiting list for MC and looks like it is finally going to start. I think the delay is a blessing in disguise as I don't think we were at the right point until this turnaround.

Having written the above, I'll also write that proximity has been known to increase attraction and decrease it. My reco is to set a time limit for how long you'll wait - create a boundary. I'd probably share that boundary with my WS, but there are arguments for and against sharing.

I'd definitely set a boundary, though. How long will you let yourself wait?

And what's keeping you from pulling the plug now? If it's fear, you're doing yourself a disservice.

It's not fear. I was at peace with the fact we were separating. I think she saw that, and it increased her dismay at what she was about to do. I mentioned before to give until the new year. We've mentioned it in passing but I think in MC I will say that we should discuss exactly what we both want.

Hellfire:

I know I have done things wrong. My time to tell BS was before I even started posting here. Before anything had happened. I fucked up, and made my own life an absolute misery. I genuinely think that time has passed now though. My W knows that I will be contacting if there is any interaction at all in the future though, I know it is not the same but she knows the threat is real. That includes if we separate and she contacted him.

Anyway. I am feeling very good in myself, have even had comments from women telling me how great I look at the moment. Been working on my fitness and eating well, etc etc. My wifes IC seems to be going very well, she is learning a huge amount about herself and how she could end up in the situation she ended up in. Kids are 10 and 8.

Eggshelz:

We have done the love languages exercise, we are actually very similar in that regard. Everything is still quite raw but we both know we need to become vulnerable with each other again. I can see it happening now though whereas a month ago I really couldn't.

Unsure:

I do know what the reaction would be. As I said to HF, I fucked up. The way I have done things lessened my moral authority in this situation. It is the part of this story that I hate myself for. I can only go by the situation and how I feel but I really don't think there is any benefit for anyone now. That could still change in the future.

Bob:

But let's entertain that thought "But she has admitted she can't find the right feelings for me..... YET". Why don't you seperate or divorce and go on about your life and if/when she develops feeling for you then you start thinking about getting back together? I think this is a better solution for you taking your wife's word for face value.

This is the flipside of Sissoons comment and the two combined really got me thinking. If we separate or divorce, I am done. I know that is easy to write and some here might struggle to believe, but I am. If she thinks that blowing up the kids lives is a risk worth taking to see if she can develop feelings, then fuck that. I've been through enough and am feeling strong enough that I wouldn't want to give it another shot. As such giving it a shot while living together seems the better option.

Dennylast:

We have discussed it. Everything is quite raw. We were a whisker away from being done. I think things will progress in that regard soon. We are certainly getting closer physically quite quickly which can only be a good sign. Reading Denver's thread I agree with the general vibe that I don't want her to do anything just to placate me, I want her to want to.

survrus:

Don't want you to think I ignored your post. I don't disagree with any of it, but as mentioned previously, I don't think that is going to help anything at this point.

Trdd:

It sounds like she may be moving past some of this; I hope it continues.

You have probably seen here at SI that the process for a WS to "come out of the fog" or exit limerence or whatever you want to call it.... it's complicated. Some snap out of it right away, some declare they want their marriage immediately but then pine to some varied extent for the AP for days, weeks or months. Some are on the fence for a few weeks or many months. Some never snap out of it and leave their BS either for their AP or they just leave.

I wouldn't give up hope yet. No pick me dancing in the meantime. Work toward R, work on yourself.

Thanks for the positive thoughts. I think until the change of heart she was in the fog, and it all hit her at once how ridiculous she has been and that she was about to wreck what was a perfectly good family. It is now 2 weeks since the turnaround and it has been a fairly steady increase in feeling and warmth. I am not pick me dancing, I am feeling strong and am not getting ahead of myself.

We have cancelled the house. Even the estate agent said that she wasn't surprised, that it didn't seem like either of us looked very happy when we were looking around it! I think the suggestion of boundaries / requirements is a very good one. I have some general thoughts but if anyone has done this in practice I would welcome suggestions.

What bothers me about situations like this is without the OM your wife might have gotten past this glitch in your marriage. Whenever a new entity is introduced into any situation it throws the balance off. If she can stay away from him long enough the feelings for you might come back.
Although my H cheated while traveling yrs ago it had nothing to do with a time when my love for him disappeared. There was no AP, just a series of unrelated events that put distance between us physically and emotionally. He asked and I was honest but told him to give me time. In a few weeks we were back where we needed to be.
This is why absolutely no contact w him might give her time to get past this idea of "love" and recognize that it is a bunch of hormones flooding her brain.
Love is doing. Lust is yearning and it disappears with time.
Good luck.

Ok. Since you said it, I will say it,one more time.

No benefit in telling the OBS now? So very not true.

It will firmly close the window your wife has to the OM. He has said he will choose his wife. He will NC your wife. Her head will instantly clear of any ridiculous fog. Any longing she has will die,when she sees him actually follow through with what he told her.

That directly benefits your marriage.

You would also be teaching your wife that hiding an affair is never ok. There is no good reason to keep it a secret. You can't expect your wife to be honest about any future affair she may have(and she is a very good candidate when it comes to having a future affair), when you are currently teaching her that sometimes it's ok to keep quiet.

You will benefit because you will fully take responsibility for YOUR actions that have hurt this other woman. The part you played in all of this.

It benefits his wife,because she will knkw the truth about her marriage, and her husband. She can make decisions about her life,based on reality, and not the shaky foundation she's standing on now. She can protect her life, by getting necessary std tests.

I could go on and on, but the numerous reasons you should tell his wife,thay benefit you,her,and your wife have been posted all over your threads.

It is never too late to do the right thing.

You get to decide the kind of man you will be going forward. Choose to be a good man. A man of integrity. A man who leads by example. A man who owns his shit,and expects his spouse to own hers. Be the good man your children believe you to be.