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Torn

Topic is Sleeping.
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Dennylast ( member #78522) posted at 1:33 PM on Thursday, August 3rd, 2023

I too see signs of hope where a saw little to none in the past. For me it will be the resumption of intimacy when I will breath easier. But let me just say in my case and in most betrayed spouses I’ve seen here and other sites, we don’t and should not get back to a place of 100% trust like before. For the next year you should be on high alert for anything suspicious. And she should be accepting of this attitude. And then with the passing of time you can modify your level of watchfulness. But it should never go back to before the betrayal.

posts: 150   ·   registered: Mar. 17th, 2021
id 8802023
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WhiskeyBlues ( member #82662) posted at 2:44 PM on Thursday, August 3rd, 2023

My WH left me and our children for someone he'd known for just 6 weeks (of course he didn't tell me why). We had to sit our girls (aged 9 and 10 at the time) down and explain to them that we were separating, and that daddy would be moving out. They could not comprehend that we were being serious, and kept asking if we were playing a joke on them. When the reality dawned on them, I will never forget their faces. My eldest sobbed her heart out and said she wishes she was dead. I layed with them in bed and we all just cried and cried. That day will haunt me forever.

He came back a week later, as he realised his feelings for his AP were not real, and it was all just limerance.

We are currently trying to R, but I am not sure I can overcome the damage that he inflicted on our M, despite that fact he is desperate to make things work. I would love to have some space from him to figure out my feelings, but I can't face putting our kids through that again, if it's not permanent. Any separation in the future has to be permanent. So I can completely understand your reluctance to blow your kid's worlds up, if there is another way. If you and your WW can R, without your children being affected (although it could be argued that they already have been), then that option should be explored fully.

As sisoon said, unless my head, heart and gut all align that D is the right option for me, then we will try and R, and the kids worlds will remain as stable as possible.

However, the list of reasons provided by hellfire, as to why you need to tell the OBS is spot on. I would also hasten to add to that list, that another reason you need to tell the OBS is FOR you children. You need to literally obliterate the possibility of any potential restart of an affair between your WW and the AP.

Telling the OBS will protect your children from the broken home you fear. You say they come first - so put them first, and protect their family unit.

Is the option there inform the OBS anonymously? It needs to be done.

posts: 114   ·   registered: Jan. 3rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8802027
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 4:44 PM on Thursday, August 3rd, 2023

Cooley:

What bothers me about situations like this is without the OM your wife might have gotten past this glitch in your marriage. Whenever a new entity is introduced into any situation it throws the balance off. If she can stay away from him long enough the feelings for you might come back.
Although my H cheated while traveling yrs ago it had nothing to do with a time when my love for him disappeared. There was no AP, just a series of unrelated events that put distance between us physically and emotionally. He asked and I was honest but told him to give me time. In a few weeks we were back where we needed to be.
This is why absolutely no contact w him might give her time to get past this idea of "love" and recognize that it is a bunch of hormones flooding her brain.
Love is doing. Lust is yearning and it disappears with time.
Good luck.

I agree. She has stayed away from him with no contact whatsoever for almost 2 months now. It was the complete going behind my back which was the gamechanger. I told her at that point it is him or me, she chose me, then struggled with the limerance etc for 6 weeks or so to the point of separating, and now seems to be on the way back.

HF:

You would also be teaching your wife that hiding an affair is never ok. There is no good reason to keep it a secret. You can't expect your wife to be honest about any future affair she may have(and she is a very good candidate when it comes to having a future affair), when you are currently teaching her that sometimes it's ok to keep quiet.

Will leave this alone in a moment as don't want this thread to get bogged down again, but I really think the opposite has happened. When there were no secrets she was happy doing what she was doing even though she could see the pain it was causing me. When she tried to go behind my back and was caught out, she hated herself which caused the spiral we are just starting to come out of. She also saw that I was ready to end things if she was to do anything like that again. She knows it is done now, that there is no blame left for me when she cheated in the most straight up sense.

Dennylast:

I too see signs of hope where a saw little to none in the past. For me it will be the resumption of intimacy when I will breath easier. But let me just say in my case and in most betrayed spouses I’ve seen here and other sites, we don’t and should not get back to a place of 100% trust like before. For the next year you should be on high alert for anything suspicious. And she should be accepting of this attitude. And then with the passing of time you can modify your level of watchfulness. But it should never go back to before the betrayal.

Thanks. I appreciate the caution, and I will be on high alert. But there is cause for cautious optimism I believe.

WhiskeyBlues:

My WH left me and our children for someone he'd known for just 6 weeks (of course he didn't tell me why). We had to sit our girls (aged 9 and 10 at the time) down and explain to them that we were separating, and that daddy would be moving out. They could not comprehend that we were being serious, and kept asking if we were playing a joke on them. When the reality dawned on them, I will never forget their faces. My eldest sobbed her heart out and said she wishes she was dead. I layed with them in bed and we all just cried and cried. That day will haunt me forever.

He came back a week later, as he realised his feelings for his AP were not real, and it was all just limerance.

We are currently trying to R, but I am not sure I can overcome the damage that he inflicted on our M, despite that fact he is desperate to make things work. I would love to have some space from him to figure out my feelings, but I can't face putting our kids through that again, if it's not permanent. Any separation in the future has to be permanent. So I can completely understand your reluctance to blow your kid's worlds up, if there is another way. If you and your WW can R, without your children being affected (although it could be argued that they already have been), then that option should be explored fully.

As sisoon said, unless my head, heart and gut all align that D is the right option for me, then we will try and R, and the kids worlds will remain as stable as possible.

I am so sorry you have had to go through that, and thanks so much for sharing. It is exactly what my concern is. Of course my kids have been affected a little (why have mummy and daddy been fighting / crying when things have seemed happy families our whole lives?) But when they come down to say goodnight and see us cuddling on the sofa watching something, laughing playing a board game etc, hopefully this will seem a blip in their memories of our relationship as time goes on.

Good luck with your story. I see you are UK based, happy to be someone to vent to if you need it.

If I wasn't so sure that the A was done now then I would be more receptive of telling - but it really wouldn't go well (and hence is a bad choice as far as the kids are concerned). And there is absolutely no-one else who would be telling her so being anonymous won't work.

Apologies to all as always for the fuck ups I have made in that regard. Would appreciate moving on from that though.

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8802044
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Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 5:02 PM on Thursday, August 3rd, 2023

Ozzy, Totally going to join the tell OBS bandwagon with Hellfire. Sorry but not sorry.

Are you worried that OBS will kick AP where the sun don’t shine and AP and your wife will walk away together? Your marriage hinges on AP’s marriage being intact?

I am glad you see your role in all of this. I can sleep a little better today :) But now for the lecture :

Like HellFire says it’s never too late to do what’s right. Do what’s right, you won’t regret it. It might be too late to tell when NC has been broken. You are getting so many chances to put in the effort to save your marriage for the kids, why not offer the same grace to another woman? I am sure she wants to save her marriage as much as you do, I am sure she wants a stable home for her cute little monkeys as much as you do.

The part about getting complements from other women makes me think you are slowly window shopping and self esteem building. Slowly checking out because you are holding on by a pretty weak rope ( or thread ) right now. The other end of the rope is in the hands of your distracted wife.

posts: 284   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2023
id 8802047
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crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 6:40 PM on Thursday, August 3rd, 2023

Telling the OBS will protect your children from the broken home you fear. You say they come first - so put them first, and protect their family unit.

Is the option there inform the OBS anonymously? It needs to be done.

I am another one that thinks OBS should be told. It honestly should be protocol after an A discovery. What are your fears surrounding this? If it's because you think it will hinder R with your WW then that kinda tells you whether she is even a good candidate for R. It could also reveal if she is still in contact with the OM if he were to contact her.

fBS/fWS(me):50 Mad-hattered after DD (2008)
XWS:53 Serial Cheater, Diagnosed NPD
DD(20) DS(17)
XWS cheated the entire M spanning 19 years
Discovered D-Days 2006,2008,2012, False R 2014
Divorcing

posts: 8804   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8802057
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:59 PM on Thursday, August 3rd, 2023

Do not contact her anonymously..if you ever decide to tell her. He can very easily explain it away,because other than a message, there is zero evidence. Contacting her..or any BS anonymously is a waste of time.

You keep talking about saving the marriage. You refuse to listen. Telling his wife is a HUGE step in that direction.

It's like a starving man, crying out for food,and people are trying to give him that food,and he refuses to eat.

Eventually he dies of starvation.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:00 PM, Thursday, August 3rd]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6711   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8802058
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gr8ful ( member #58180) posted at 1:05 AM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

As usual, SPOT ON from HellFire!

posts: 373   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017
id 8802105
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 4:34 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

From my previous post…


Her OM wasn’t available; maybe the next guy will be.

…and your response:

I certainly see why you would think that this could happen, but I truly don't think so.

Why is it so unfathomable that your wife might leave if she found someone that she respects, desires, and could settle down with?

I’m honestly curious about where your confidence comes from… because I’m sure that there was a time that her falling back in love with and embarking on a sexual relationship with her ex wasn’t a square on your bingo card.

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1973   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8803254
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 5:01 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

Speaking for myself, possible T/J...

I’m honestly curious about where your confidence comes from....

One school of thought appears to be that true R is impossible, in part because the BS has to constantly fear another A.

It's as simple as this: my confidence comes from believing I'll be OK whether my W cheats again or doesn't cheat again. And when it comes to believing I'll recover well, believing makes it so.

As I say, I'm speaking for myself here, but I think most BSes in R would sign on to the above statements. End possible T/J

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29994   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8803278
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Unsure2019 ( member #71350) posted at 5:44 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

Ozzie,

This thread is just a continuance of your previous thread. You're given a ton of great advice and you choose to ignore most all of it. Instead, you twist it to try and fit your own naritve. Sorry to say I think this will end badly for you.

posts: 278   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2019   ·   location: California
id 8803292
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 6:03 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

Sisoon:

Speaking for myself, possible T/J...

I’m honestly curious about where your confidence comes from....

One school of thought appears to be that true R is impossible, in part because the BS has to constantly fear another A.

It's as simple as this: my confidence comes from believing I'll be OK whether my W cheats again or doesn't cheat again. And when it comes to believing I'll recover well, believing makes it so.

As I say, I'm speaking for myself here, but I think most BSes in R would sign on to the above statements. End possible T/J

I don't consider this a T/J at all... in fact it is completely correct. I have been told so many times (well by some) to take what helps and leave the rest. Well this helps a lot. What is the point in R if you feel like she will do it again?

I can't imagine spending the rest of my life fearing another A (worth pointing out I understand the feelings of anyone that considers this wasn't). This whole situation was ridiculous. Fucked up. I got scared and made stupid choices myself. She realises how badly she has behaved. She won't do it again.

IF she did, well fuck her. And she can enjoy how her family, friends and everyone else would treat her. I feel supremely confident in my ability to react to whatever happens next.

Abalone:

The part about getting complements from other women makes me think you are slowly window shopping and self esteem building. Slowly checking out because you are holding on by a pretty weak rope ( or thread ) right now. The other end of the rope is in the hands of your distracted wife.

No, not about checking out, just a black and white comment. I can't remember the last time a female has gone out of her way to compliment me so I must be doing something right. Don't want to have to have to ever go through dating etc again, but it is nice to think that I will probably do OK (shout out to HurtHalo there, his words have helped) if it comes to it.

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8803294
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 7:48 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

I think its important to note that sisoon is overly a decade past his dday. His wife has done the work. She continues to do the work. She has proven,through years of consistent, honest,and remorseful action that she is a safe partner. And that might just be why he isn't concerned about a new affair.

Sure..take what you need,and leave the rest is alright. But skipping past the part where your wife has done the work,is a part that can't just be "left."

Ozzy..what work is your wife doing to become a safe partner? Other than no having sex with this other man,what work is she doing? Hint..that work has little to do with you. I mean,it's good if she is answering your questions and being honest. It really is. But what work is she doing ON HERSELF to become a safe person?

Also..you said she was fully NC. Does that mean she finally blocked him on social media?

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:49 PM, Friday, August 4th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6711   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8803307
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 11:48 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

One school of thought appears to be that true R is impossible, in part because the BS has to constantly fear another A.

You completely missed my point, which was not that true R is impossible no matter the circumstances… it’s that it isn’t possible with a spouse that doesn’t respect or desire you.

You are putting a lot of stock in the fact that your wife doesn’t want to divorce when the reality is that she couldn’t have run off with the OM even if she wanted to because he’s married and he doesn’t want to leave his wife.

You can’t say this is not the case because if you weren’t terrified of the possibility that she would leave you for him, you would’ve told OBS now. And you’re lying to us and to yourself and if you say that isn’t the reason you haven’t told her.

So again I ask… how can be so sure that your wife wouldn’t leave you if/when she found a man who gave her the same tingles as the OM but was willing and available as a full-time partner?

As you contemplate this question, don’t think of your wife and the relationship as you wish they could be, hope they could be, or believe they could be in the future… consider the reality of your situation right now, which is the fact that you have a wife that doesn’t love and respect you. She has told you this.

Edit;add:

Sure..take what you need,and leave the rest is alright. But skipping past the part where your wife has done the work,is a part that can't just be "left."

I just wanted to piggy bag off of Hellfire’s point, which is that you have a habit of cherry-picking the comments that you like without putting them in the proper context. This is simply the latest example.

If there is one common denominator among everyone that successfully R’d on this site it’s that they set requirements for R and their waywards were emotionally invested in their spouses enough to do the work.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 12:05 AM, Saturday, August 5th]

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1973   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8803340
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gr8ful ( member #58180) posted at 12:31 AM on Saturday, August 5th, 2023

Perhaps the OP is like one of my daughters - some simply need to learn the hard way, unfortunately.

posts: 373   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017
id 8803349
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 1:41 AM on Saturday, August 5th, 2023

she couldn’t have run off with the OM even if she wanted to because he’s married and he doesn’t want to leave his wife.

You can’t say this is not the case because if you weren’t terrified of the possibility that she would leave you for him, you would’ve told OBS now. And you’re lying to us and to yourself

ALL of this. Every word.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6711   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8803351
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 2:10 AM on Saturday, August 5th, 2023

Hi former ws here. Experienced limerance addiction, fully reconciled.

1. Tell the OBS. Please tell them. It will blow up the affair and splash reality in the situation. She also deserves to know what you know.

2. Don’t worry about pissing of your ww. She will get over it. I think she lacks respect and if she does the work she will respect this decision.

3. Just because they had a prior relationship doesn’t mean she can’t be limerant/addicted. The addiction comes from the push pull of the relationship. It is another reason to tell however because it will stop the push pull. The addiction comes from the high lows of the relationship. The highs are very high and the lows are very low, comparable to a gambling addiction.

4. Is she in IC? That has to be a requirement. She is not going to be able to come out of this on her own. It took a lot of months before I could feel the right kind of feelings about anything. Because the addiction causes you to numb a lot

5. This is a hard way back. We are talking about a good year or more of consistent work on her part before she is anywhere near safe, and then years of integrating and being vigilant. Up to you if you are talking he gamble but you should probably get IC too.

6. Your requirements must be respected with definite boundaries around them. The minute you go back on your word she knows she can do whatever she wants. That’s not because I think she is a horrible person in general, but right now she is. If her intentions to get things back are sincere, then there is a chance she can figure out what is missing inside of her and work on fixing it.

I understand you do not want your family to blow up but you are only fifty per event of the equation. Be smart. Be strategic. Take zero shit moving forward. You are in recovery right now, no where near able to offer reconciliation.

But the feelings, I don’t place much on those.her feelings are unreliable anyway. She doesn’t understand love. Love is not just feelings. And people fall in and out of love all the time. I can say I wanted out, I didn’t think I loved him, and I do, deeply. But please know it’s a very dangerous path for you to take betting on that. Some ws’s, many ws’s don’t want to get better, they want to be lost in LaLa land. You need to focus on your self and your healing and be your own stability.

I wish you luck but if you listen to nothing else tell the OBS, it’s super important to blow this thing up. I know you are dead set against it but if you are willing to continue to stay in a house with a woman you can’t trust, you are willing to do anything to save your family. Telling the other spouse gives you a better chance.

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7261   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8803354
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HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 5:23 AM on Saturday, August 5th, 2023

Ozzy,

Between me. WW, AP, and OBS I was the only one of us four who didn’t know what was going on. In my situation, OBS divorced AP when she put everything together and realized it was an affair. I was out of the country and had limited contact at the time but OBS knew way more than me, and she knew me, and she never said anything.

I wish OBS had told me what she knew. I know most of everything now, but that was after so much suffering and confusion. OBS had figured it out months before I even got a clue. If she had contacted me and gave me her evidence way back when she knew it would have made so many things better.

OBS deserves to know. You know, why can’t she? Why do you get to be selfish and prevent her from knowing what she is really dealing with? Every BS is screaming at you about this because we all know that being in the dark is far worse than knowing the truth.

Me mid 40s BH
Her mid 40s WW
1 year EA/PA

"Just" a friend.in R, getting by

posts: 397   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8803365
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 10:59 AM on Saturday, August 5th, 2023

The infidelity journey fundamentally changed me, and it did so by forcing me to realize some shockingly counterintuitive lessons about relationships and love.

You have to be willing to lose a relationship to save it. And to save yourself.

Prioritizing my spouse's needs is not love, it's codependency.

If your relationship asks you to choose between what is morally right and what your spouse wants, always choose what is right. Self-respect is the only guide we need in this life.

The definition of sexy is doing what is morally right, even when it's hard. Especially when it's hard.

Sacrifice is only a facet of loving someone if it comes in small doses and goes both ways. Otherwise, it's just weakness and will kill the passion a spouse feels for you.

I am not trying to pile on here, Ozzy, but I do fear you have not learned all of the lessons that the infidelity journey wants to teach you. Good luck.

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5877   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8803376
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5Decades ( member #83504) posted at 3:20 PM on Saturday, August 5th, 2023

Ozzy,

Longish story, but you may learn something here.

All names here are made up to protect identities.

My WH cheated on me in 1977. He was in a band, and his two bandmates, Jane and Mike, were dating. WH slept with Mike’s sister at least twice. Jane and Mike knew it and never told me. WH an I had a brief separation of about three months (gee, I wonder why…) but ultimately reconciled.

We were good for many, many years. Then, in 2005, he had a PA with a friend of ours. That friend was married, her husband knew all about her sexual activities outside the marriage, knew she was sleeping with multiple partners, and was a supervisor where I worked. He never told me. My friends knew, and never told me. I found out accidentally when I ran across a photo on his computer of her boobs. She was in a hotel room, on her anniversary wither HER HUSBAND, taking boob shots and sending them to my husband.

This June, an update on my computer caused my husband’s texts and emails to forward to my iPad. There was a text sent to "me", very romantic, only the next text was a boob shot - from JANE. The thread went back three years, through which they were sending nudes, expressing love, a desire to see one another in person, etc. And of course, denigrating me.

So she knew he cheated in 1977, and was now his AP.

Only what she didn’t know?

In 1977, he was also the AP of HER SISTER. He confessed that while we were separated he slept with her sister.

I actually called her, and told her this. I wanted Janes to feel burned, yes. And she was shocked, and instantly denied that this could be possible. I gave her detailed information, and she recalled the night and event surrounding it - and the letter that he sent afterwards (Jane sent him a copy of it in the texts but didn’t realize the two had sex that night). There was some schaudenfraude certainly.

But also, the fact is that her sister’s betrayed HUSBAND has a right to know. And now he does.

And affairs have no right to be kept secret, no matter how long ago they were, no matter who they were with.

My WH kept this secret for this long, and finally has confessed it all. We are trying to rebuild. This is no circus here. It is a fucking nightmare of no sleep, anger, desperation, tears, fear, grief, anxiety, love, radical honesty, change, and crawling up out of the depths of a hole he dug for the two of us.

If there is any hope of moving forward, every person who has a stake in this has to have the truth of their life.

5Decades BW 68 WH 73 Married since 1975

posts: 126   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2023   ·   location: USA
id 8803395
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:56 PM on Saturday, August 5th, 2023

I think its important to note that sisoon is overly a decade past his dday. His wife has done the work. She continues to do the work. She has proven,through years of consistent, honest,and remorseful action that she is a safe partner. And that might just be why he isn't concerned about a new affair.

You bring up a couple of good points, Hellfire.

First, the outline of my story is in my signature line. That's true for many of us, and I strongly recommend that every reader look for biographical outlines when reading posts.

If you want to see more about a poster, click on the person icon over at the top right of every post. That gets you into a poster's profile, and one of the choices is 'recent posts'. Looking at recent posts can help you find out where a poster is coming from.

Second, old timers here once were newbies. Like everyone else, I went through some years of fear that I had taken the wrong path. D is, after all, final in many ways. R, not so much. R builds a new M. Once one considers R complete, M requires constant effort. The effort pays off, and a well-nurtured M is likely to endure, but my W or I can decide to D at some time in the future. One of us is almost certain to die before the other. There are no guarantees.

Third, I feared another A only for a moment as I considered R vs D. The reason wasn't that my W started doing the work on d-day. It was because a 2nd A isn't the only thing that can kill R. There are so many other risks that I thought would be much more likely to occur! IMO, there are many events that can kill an M. In the first few years of R, I was a bundle of fear. Sure, another A is one of them - but it was just one of many.

I don't often go into the risks associated with R, because others do that pretty well.

******

Perhaps it will help to write that I am still angry at OBS for not informing me of the A when he found out about it. That would have prevented 10 days of unhappiness, wondering what was going on with my W, and would have gotten me healed 10 days quicker. That thought sticks with me, even though I know it might take me at least 10 days to have told him, if I had found out first.

Think about that, Ozzy. I post on SI to help members, BSes and WSes alike. I think I bring up good points. I aim to show a lot of kindness and support.

But I've written off OBS, because he didn't inform me of the A.

I'm all for informing the OBS. I haven't pushed that because you seem to have made up your mind.

If you reconsider your position, note that I read your posts differently than most people do in many respects, but I agree with everyone else on informing OBS.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29994   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8803414
Topic is Sleeping.
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