When did you believe you had the entire truth?
Was there something your WS did that made you believe you had the whole truth and they were no longer hiding anything?
My WH has TT'd our marriage to death. He has followed the same pattern throughout - I will get a gut feeling about something, we will have a massive falling out, I'll inevitably tell him I no longer wish to R, he'll go away for a bit and eventually admit he's lying. He will then admit 2 or 3 more things, as an offer of "look, I'm offering information up now, I see the error of my ways". I will feel at ease, and start to believe he really "gets it". After a while, that same gnawing feeling will return...wash, rinse and repeat.
I feel, for me to fully believe he has nothing left to tell me, I need him to literally have a massive truth vomit. I need all of it, everything, big and small, for him to let go of every single lie he knows he is holding on to, even in our marriage pre-affair.
But again, he's adamant he has told me everything there is to tell. It's the same pattern.
Maybe he's finally telling the truth and there is nothing to tell anymore. But I know R will never work until I see something different.
So if you experienced TT, but now feel like you probably do have the whole truth, was there something your WS did/didn't do, that made you reach that point?
11 comments posted: Thursday, September 21st, 2023
How to "re-humanize" the WS?
I feel I'm really struggling to view my WH as anything but a monster. I do want to R (I think), and I know he has many great qualities (I made a list and everything!), but I can't seem to accept them.
I view him in such a dim light and think of him as less than - I have said some awful things to him, which I feel terrible about, because it's not in my nature to be so nasty.
I feel for us to try and move forward and my heart to heel, I need to re-humanize him and see him as the flawed individual he is, but that is doing all he can to become a better person.
How can I do this? At the moment, he may as well have horns ☹
11 comments posted: Thursday, August 24th, 2023
How did you over come the hurt?
HOW did you over come the hurt of being betrayed?
I posted recently re my WH's trickle truthing. He's currently having hypnotherapy, which is helping him regress back into his childhood, to figure out when his issues with telling the truth began. He had a moment last week in a session where a memory came back to him from his childhood that he'd not even realised was there; he owned up to his dad to breaking a game controller, his dad lost is shit and called him all sorts, made him feel literally insignificant and stupid. He started crying in his session. The hypnotherapist believes he has a deep seated fear of telling the truth, fearing abandonment.
I'm not sure what I think about any of the above. But things in our household have settled massively. Things are calm.
I'm doing a lot of reflection, and I'm stuck. Aside from the lying, he is giving me everything I'm asking for and what is recommended a WS should do. He's never once tried to blame me, he talks about the A when I need to (which is pretty much all the time), he checks on me throughout the day and brings A related things up. He has zero feelings for the AP, apart from contempt. Changed jobs, STD testing, he regularly shares thoughts of guilt and shame. There's nothing he won't do.
In addition to this, we still get along so well. We can talk for hours, we laugh together, we enjoy all of the same things, we've joined a gym and starting running again together. We have great family days out with the kids. We are still very affectionate. We share the same goals for the future.
But I still feel like there is a hole in my heart that will never heal. Despite all of the above, when I stop and think, I don't believe I can ever get over everything he's done. I think even without the TT, I don't think I'd be able to. Then I think of leaving, and I feel a little weight off my shoulders in someway. I make my peace with my decision to leave - but then, I suddenly find myself already planning our next night out/Christmas gettaway/camping.
I feel like there's something wrong with me 😔
11 comments posted: Sunday, August 20th, 2023
The destruction of TT
Trickle truth - marriage killer. Everything I've read is true.
Please someone help, I am at such a complete loss. I am feeling worse and worse, I can't even bare waking up in the mornings.
My WH and I have been trying to R, but unfortunately he has spent the last 15 months since the A, TT. All manner of things, big and small.
About 2 weeks ago, I gave him a 2 month deadline. I told him I want him to tell me ALL of the things he KNOWS he's hiding , to finish his timeline (this was only started about 3/4 weeks ago - not because of any reluctance from him but more because I kept finding out more and more lies, so felt, well what's the point if its written when he's still lying to my face!?) with as much accuracy as he can recall and drop the defensiveness and anger (this always seems to come into play when he's lying - if we're just talking about the A he's actually very empathetic). At the end of those two months I was going to then consider whether I still want to TRY to R, and also follow up his timeline with a polygraph if I felt necessary.
Since I've offered him this 2 month opportunity to try and show me he is R material, he has:
1. Lied to my face re another aspect of the A. He only admitted it when I applied a LOT of pressure, and the threat of ending our marriage. This was about a week or so ago.
2. He has admitted to me off his own back, two aspects of the A that were incorrect. One of them being that a part of his timeline he'd previously written was a lie. Actually, another big lie. The other admission was minor really.
Today I asked him a question re the A, and I just in my gut feel he is lying. I think xyz happened and he maintains it didn't. But I trust my gut; my trust for him is non-existent. Every single other hunch I've had that he's been lying, I've been spot on.
He has gone to great lengths to manipulate me previously, even though he knows he's lying. He has seen me distraught the to point I have hit my head on things, dug knives into my palms, he's goaded me to message AP to "prove" he's telling the truth (he was lying - how utterly humiliating that would've been, eh?), he's punched walls, he's smashed our crockery, he's thrown his phone at our family photo frame and broken it - all in anger at being accused of such and such (but yet, he was still lying).
So I'm at a serious sticking point. He maintains that there is in fact nothing left that he is purposfully hiding from me. He says he believes there might be things he's forgotten, that the continuation of his timeline might bring other things to surface for him, but that in any event, there is nothing to his knowledge that he is keeping from me. He is now even willing to take a polygraph to back this statement up. Is this yet more bluffing? His rationale is that I know A LOT about the A (it lasted 3 months and he's correct, I do know a lot), and that maybe I need to consider the fact that there is literally nothing else to know (like I say, I do know a lot). Because the amount of things he's hidden, has to end somewhere.....
But my gut is telling me, still, he is hiding some things. My gut has been surprisingly (scarily) accurate. But equally I recognise, I am fallible. I am vulnerable, I am on high alert. There is of course the possibility I am wrong, and he is being truthful in saying that everything he has hidden has been divulged (via TT). I describe this to him as using up all of his possible "trust points" on TT, so there is nothing left for us to build on unfortunately.
I feel I am willing to end our marriage at this point on just a hunch and a (scarily accurate) gut feeling. Because who else can I trust?
But what if I'm wrong? Does it matter? I gave him two months to show change and he was STILL lying to me a week later, even then!?
I can't seem to articulate how much I am struggling, and how much this man has messed with my head 😪
Edited to add:
I feel I need to add, that this situation has not brought out the best in me either. I have been god awful to him in return. I have shouted in his face and said awful things to him (actually we have both done this if I'm honest...), I have sat on top of him I.e "mounted" (as he likes to refer) him and begged for the truth (for reference I am 8st, he is 17st). All of this has stemmed from what feels like torture 😭 I am not proud of behaving so uncharacteristically scathing, scornful and unkind. I've become someone I really don't like.
15 comments posted: Wednesday, August 9th, 2023
Polygraph in UK?
I was just wondering whether anyone in the UK, has had their WS do a polygraph?
If so, are there any companies that come recommended? What was your experience?
My WH has still been lying to me after 14 months of supposed R, and I am done.
I'm awaiting a full written time line, and then want to him to have a polygraph. I will then consider whether I want to even attempt R for a second time 😔
11 comments posted: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023
How so WS's know they won't reoffend?
BW wife here.
I seem to be reading a lot of threads lately about WS's going on to have affairs years down the line, after R. To be honest, I'm finding this rather chilling, as is my WH; I can't imagine the pain of a second betrayal and my heart bleeds for anyone who has experienced this.
My WH is adamant he simply would never do this to me. He feels the A, and the subsequent fallout, has changed him to his core and he can't quite understand how any WS could do this to their BS and their families for a second time.
Whether I believe him or not - well it changes moment to moment 😔
But I want to ask WS's - assuming you are certain you will never reoffend - HOW do you know?
8 comments posted: Friday, June 30th, 2023
Reconciliation where the WS left for the AP?
Has anyone managed to successfully R, in a situation whereby the WS actually left at one point or another, for the AP?
This is very much where I feel so stuck.
My WH met the AP, and within 6 weeks (yep, 6 whole weeks) decided to leave our family and 13 year marriage for her because he had "never felt this way before". Of course he was too cowardly at the time to tell me this was the reason he was leaving. He simply said something inside him had snapped, he no longer loved me and, to quote "Maybe I've never loved you". He hurt my heart so much I thought I was going to die. Now it just feels like there's an empty void there. Anyway, I digress...
Within a week of leaving our family and playing house with her, he says reality of what he'd done kicked in and the sheen of the AP wore off. He realised this "love" he felt for her was a lie and he just loved the way she made him feel. Their conversations even became flat (as did his erections, I'm told 🤭).
I naturally welcomed him back with open arms, and concluded that he was going through a personal crisis. I was sending him links about depression and trying my best to look after him, walking on egg shells. I was such a fool 😭
He continued to see the AP, although true to his cowardly nature and conflict avoidy personality, decided to try and "phase" her out by being cold and disinterested in the hopes she would end things, so he wouldn't have to. However, the more he pulled away, the nuttier she became; demanding his Google location, photos of where he was, screen shots of his call history. If he didn't oblige, she would threaten to "get her answers elsewhere". He was starting to see a really insideous side of her and he became terrified she would go to his work and make false allegations (which wouldn't just result in a job loss - but he could have ended up in the media, our children would find out and potentially have their lives made a nightmare...just a whole world of f*ckery could unfold). Anyway, a couple of weeks later, I found out...
His IC is of the opinion that he had some kind of psychotic break. She feels that decided to leave a 13 year marriage, and a good one at that, for someone you've known for 6 weeks, is extremely unstable behaviour. I'm not sure I buy this. Either way, it kills me that he could be so fickle as to throw away what we had for someone he barely knew. And there was a time where He. Chose. Her.
I don't know how to even process that fact.
14 comments posted: Saturday, June 10th, 2023
Marriages that have R in real life?
I don't know of any relationships in real life that have R. I've only known of couples that have separated following an affair. I actually didn't know R was a "thing", I just naively presumed infidelity leads immediately to divorce.
I feel people around me just don't have any comprehension of how painful infidelity is 😔 I can't help but feel people secretly think I should just be moving on given that we are R.
It is a lonely place to be at times.
19 comments posted: Saturday, May 20th, 2023
Is a degree of trickle truth inevitable?
I was just wondering whether people feel some degree of TT is inevitable?
DD one year anniversary is just over a month away and despite promising and vowing not TT, my H has. The last TT was about 7 weeks ago and now I have, yet again, more renewed promises etc etc 🙄
The saddest thing is, the things he has lied about are minor and in no way change the outcome of us trying to R. For example, I asked whether he took annual leave to see her (he denied this but it now transpires he took 2 hours leave very early on - but like I say, it doesn't change anything, I just want the truth!). Yet he has admitted to some other pretty gruesome details. The duration of the A is as he said, I knew it was an EA/PA right from the beginning, and I know there has been absolutely NC.
It's just minor details he slips up on. He has a knee jerk reaction to lie and then digs himself a hole (something he's done since childhood). He says it's because he's terrified one more thing will tip me over the edge and I'll leave. Yet I've promised I won't, and I just need the truth. He's seen the things he's TT about, literally drive me nuts, and still held back, digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself.
Other then the TT, he has mostly been a model WH. I don't want to throw the towel in, but I am so sick of being lied to. I just feel despondent and empty at the moment though, like he has again shattered the little bit of hope we had built up, over the most ridiculous thing to lie about.
But is some TT almost expected? Is it unrealistic to expect someone as broken as a WS to suddenly be able to fix years of ingrained self protective behaviour, this quickly?
Ironically, I have a grain of trust that he probably won't cheat again. I can see how he has destroyed himself and he has changed in so many other ways for the better.
20 comments posted: Friday, May 5th, 2023
When is there too much to forgive?
Hello there from the UK!
I found about 9 months ago that my husband was having an affair. The affair lasted 3 months and was both a PA/EA.
He basically met her, there was a spark, he sought her out on social media - a week later they've kissed and two weeks later he's having sex with her. Fast forward 6 weeks later, he's telling me we are done, he left me and our girls (aged now 10 and 11 - I will never forget my eldest telling me she wishes she was dead when she found out her dad was leaving).
Naturally, he didn't tell me, nor anyone else that he was leaving his wife of 13 years and his daughters for some young girl he's known for 6 weeks. He told everyone, including his family that he had "snapped". He told me he didn't love me, and that maybe he never had loved me. The pain he caused me was inexplicable. I couldn't get up off the floor, I thought I was going to die of a broken heart. We had always had an extremely close, loving relationship, so this was so out of the blue - and for anyone who knew us.
A week later, he came back, telling me he loved me and he'd missed me and he was sorry. Yet for the next month, continued to be cold and distant. I came to the conclusion he was depressed, so I picked up all the slack at home whilst trying to look after two kids and work full time, struggling with the trauma he put me through.
To cut a long story short, my gut started kicking into action. I know things weren't adding up, and he was becoming more and more gaslighting towards me. I'd reached me limit where I just told him to go to his parents. Turns out he was turning his family against me, saying I wouldn't give it a rest and am acting crazy. Then I found evidence that he was having an affair, but instead of coming back and trying to reconcile with me, he went to her. I even received a nasty message from his dad telling me he knows his son wouldn't do such a thing, saying that I had destroyed my marriage with my issues and that I need help as I am hurting my children with my behaviour!!!!!!!!!
A week after I found out and he came to take the kids to school, I saw his eyes almost go back to normal. It's like he'd had an exorcism. He said he was ending things with her - and he did.
Move to now, and he is an absolutely completely different person! He is full of remorse, he had never once blamed me, we talk until the early hours, he is receiving IC and he is journalling. He deleted any social media and I'm offered all the transparency I need.
BUT, I feel this is not just an affair I'm getting over - it is the total and absolute betrayal and violation of another human being. During the A, he literally treated me horrifically.
It's probably easier to list the things that I am stuck on:
- He told me he didn't love me and probably never had.
- He left me and his children for a girl he had known for 6 WEEKS.
- He sought her out on social media and jumped into bed with her, with such ease. Not a thought for me and his children.
- He put me down to others and told lies about me, saying I was the issue for our marriage woes.
- unbeknownst to me, when he came back after that week of leaving, he was removing his wedding ring and actually telling friends and colleagues he was SINGLE and we were just living together.
- He told a mutual friend of ours about some childhood abuse that happened to me, that I had shared with him years ago in confidence. Using it to "justify" me having issues and being the problem.
- He told her he "has never felt this way before" - I know this was all during the fog, and it wasn't real, but it still physically hurts me.
- I don't drive and the year before the A, we moved somewhere fairly remotish, with poor public transport. So this kids and I were more of less stranded and I had to rely on friends (no family nearby) to get around.
- He violated my character to his family and they turned on me when I needed support.
- When I found out about the A, he continued it for a week, even after I offered an olive branch. I called him when he was there, and he was so awful to me, just saying we are done and to leave him alone!
- Then the cherry on top, was that about 2 months after the A, and we were working on things, I found out he had been messaging a girl from work 12 years younger, and then deleting conversation - this was after I said to him anymore secrecy and I'm done!!! He got screenshot of the messages, and they were perfectly innocent. He just has constantly needed ego kibbles and to know people like him. But at my expense.
Is all of this "too much" to forgive? I just don't know. I feel completely and utterly destroyed by the absoluteness of his betrays.
I'm trying, he's trying, but it just hurts so much. I'm getting EMDR on Thursday, in the hopes that helps with some of the trauma.
23 comments posted: Friday, April 7th, 2023