Quote of the day
"I'm sick of being told I'm still lying" - a quote from WH, who has done nothing but trickle truth since dday. With the last truth being just a few months ago.
Same thing he said when he knew full well he was lying, last time. But this time its being said genuinely apparently. I can't even begin to figure that out?!
I feel my gut is still telling me he is holding stuff back, nothing significant, just stuff. Lying has been an issue for him since I've known him, its a been a pattern of behaviour, and I truly feel he is continuing to cherry pick the truth.
But more importantly, I feel like his lack of empathy is getting worse š Whilst it must be tough to sit there and be told "I know you're still lying", when you're not (IF he's not. Big if), I still think its an aborhent thing to say, given his actions!!!
Just feeling really lost and hurt šŖ
7 comments posted: Saturday, June 22nd, 2024
Giving up
I'm coming to the conclusion that I just can't do this anymore. I'm ready to throw in the towel on reconciliation as I don't think I can heal with my WH.
When I'm "up" and I'm positive, loving and engaged in the M, he is literally everything a BS could hope for. He is caring, he will stay up until the early hours - he would do anything I ask. I can see in many aspects how much he has changed for the better and how hard he is trying.
But when I am "down" and I'm resentful, accusatory, angry and full of disgust, he makes things so much worse. He just does not seem to understand that I still need empathy, because I'm literally falling apart. He makes me feel abandoned all over again.
Don't get me wrong, he tries to be empathetic, but he just rather quickly starts to snap. I get reminded of how "good things were at the weekend" for example. Or when I reach the point where I say I don't think I can do this anymore, he says things like "ok, let's fucking tell the kids tonight then shall we?" - he can't see how manipulative and cruel this is, and just says he is trying to make me see sense/snap me out of it šŖ
He says he feels I need to commit to R, or not. But given the last disclosure was only a few months ago, and my gut still says there's more, I feel he should have zero expectations of any certainty from me at this point.
When I am "down", I feel like he inadvertently redirects all of the upset on to him, in various ways. When I try and draw his attention to this, he just argues with me about it and maintains that he's not and then it spirals - despite me previously imploring him to LISTEN TO WHAT I'M TELLING HIM I NEED.
I sometimes wonder what I'm even healing from exactly - the affair, the fact he abandoned me, the constant lying, or the piss poor way he has handled reconciliation in the last 2 years. Its hard to know anymore, everything feels lumped into one.
It's my 2nd Dday anniversary on Friday, and I'm really, really struggling. I keep re-living all of the events that lead up to it, the agony he put me and the kids through - and the fact that whilst I was fading away, he was busy screwing his girlfriend and helping her set up for her birthday party š¤¢
Just feeling so lost. But I know deep down I can't carry on. I needed him to be there for me even when I am at my worst, but I think he's proven that he just can't.
Sorry, I just needed to put all of this in writing šŖ
12 comments posted: Wednesday, June 5th, 2024
How could he have left us?
I feel this is the part of the affair that I truly can't move past.
My WH left me and our girls for the AP (of course I didn't know someone else was involved, he just told me he didn't love me anymore, that maybe he never had, and something inside him had snapped).
He changed his mind after just a week and came back, apologising and telling me how much he loves me and that he had missed me. Half way through the week when he was gone, I had left him alone at his request, but he started messaging me about normal every day things - the gossip at his work, offering to help me choose a new bike, general chit chat. It was the oddest thing.
After he came back, he blew hot and cold. There were glimmers of the old him, but mostly he seemed depressed and angry. I didn't know it at the time, but he was still seeing the AP. He explains this was during this time he was trying to get rid of her, without his two worlds colliding - but she had started to exhibit extremely controlling behaviour and he became petrified. His hands would shake when he was on his phone.
A month after he came back, I discovered the A. He tried to deny it initially but then confessed and ended it. The light seemed to return to his eyes.
We are trying to R, but I really struggle with the fact that he actually left me and our kids, for someone he had known for just a few short weeks. I mean, do people really do that? Leave the life they have built, their devastated children? Based on knowing someone for a few weeks. It feels like such a huge insult to me as a human being, my worth. Am I really that disposable? šŖ
We both discussed this with our IC's and oddly enough both said that it sounds like he had some kind of psychotic break of sorts. Not diminished responsibility, but they both said it was such unusual behaviour and out of character, that it sounds like he was not acting with a sound mind.
He takes full responsibility for everything. He has never once tried to blame me. He tried to explain what happened in his mind, is that almost immediately when he met her, she was very full on and made it obvious that she was interested. They started messaging and he says that he immediately started to justify it in his mind by completely rewriting our marital history. Every minor issue he felt we had, he blew up in his mind as insurmountable differences.
In the first few weeks of the A, they both literally pretended the kids and I didn't exist. He says it was easier for him that way. He could pretend he was single, and she could pretend she was not sleeping with a married father of two.
However, the day she finally brought up the elephant in the room, he says the reality hit him like a tonne of bricks. He says things between them became awkward and stilted and his two worlds were clashing. He started to feel angrier towards me, for getting in the way of his new found happiness. As he felt things between them had changed because things had become more real, he started to panic, as that high had been dampened. So he says he threw himself even more into the A (as he felt he must've done this for a reason - his words not mine). After another week, he basically concluded that the reason that things between him and the AP had turned slightly awkward and didn't feel the same was because I was standing in the way. He felt the only way to get that feeling back with AP, was to leave me. Wow. Just writing that, makes me feel so pathetic and pointless.
He says once he left, he knew almost immediately that it was a mistake. Even though I was now officially out of the picture in his eyes, he still just didn't feel the same. The AP shine had worn off - now he could have the toy he so desperately wanted, he didn't feel much like playing with it anymore. He says over the week he was gone, he would lay awake in her bed, wondering why the hell he was even there. She could feel him pulling away, and became more and more desperate.
Anyway, I apologise for the waffle, but I just can't seem to get past this part. On one hand I'm pleased he didn't destroy our marriage to simply cake eat but on the other hand, I just wish that all it was š I'm so confused. I keep running through how I felt when he left without any warning, and how traumatic it was. How I cried until my eyes were swollen, how I cried infront of my kids teachers when I had to tell them their father had left. How I howled with grief on the floor. The pain in my daughters' eyes and my youngest came home with little things she had made for daddy at school š
It feels like its killing me. I don't know how he could have left us, and so quickly.
Does this make sense to any WS's?? Or to any BS's who's WS may have left, or considered leaving??
8 comments posted: Thursday, May 23rd, 2024
How can trust ever be rebuilt?
WH and I were talking about trust on Saturday evening. More importantly, what is his plan to rebuild it, after all the TT and the years even pre-A whereby he would lie about things big and small out of sheer uncomfortableness.
I explained how I worry that because this conflict avoidant trait is so deeply ingrained in his behaviour, that he won't be able to stop him self from lying, should something crop up. Not A related, but just anything that gives him that knee jerk reaction to lie and then dig himself a hole.
It was quite a nice heart to heart, whereby we both agreed we wanted to make a real go of R, and he said he can't face letting the kids down again and that he is desperate to change.
I said that although I know he will sit and talk to me for hours about the A, due to the fact that he very rarely brings it up himself, I feel I need to know more about what he is thinking and feeling, unprompted.
He said that he would like to try something called FANOS (an acronym, its about talking about your feelings in a relationship - I had never heard of this until he mentioned it). He said starting tomorrow, he would do this in the evenings.
So "tomorrow" came and went, he didn't mention it. I felt a bit disappointed, but was worrying at that point about an issue with our eldest, so I put it aside.
Then this evening at 11.30pm, lights out, eyes closed and he said "oh we need to do that FANOS thing" (or words similar). I didn't quite catch what he said, so asked him to repeat. I then remembered that this was what he was supposed to start yesterday, so asked why didn't he do it yesterday like he said he would, and why now when we are going to bed?
This is the part that I feel has made me feel like I want to give up.....
He said that he did do it yesterday - he wrote down what he was going to say on his phone, just didn't bring it up because he felt awkward/uncomfortable!!!!!!! He says this was because he thought I was going to be doing this FANOS thing too and he didn't know whether I was prepared or not and he didn't want to put me on the spot (miscommunication there, as I thought it was supposed to be his offering to me to show me how open and communicative he can be). So regardless, the thing he said he was going to do, he A) didn't do it when he said he would, and B) avoided a "perceived" awkward conversation.....which is exactly what my concerns are in the first place!!!
WH has apologised but does not seem to understand my outrage. He has kept saying that he has written down what he was going to say, proving he is not avoiding any awkwardness - but he doesn't seem to understand that although he has written it down, he avoided having the actual conversation with me, when he said he would.
I have said that no trust can ever be rebuilt on broken promises and apologies. All I want is for him to be straightforward and open. I asked him how on earth he is ever going to come to me if he suddenly remembers a detail about the A, if he found even THIS difficult.
I know he has a life time of avoidant behaviour to overcome, but I feel now all hope is lost. This was his suggestion and day one he failed and didn't follow through what what he said he would. Even after promising, saying he won't ever lie again because he knows how it would affect the kids, this is what he does? Whilst not lying exactly, I feel he's still used the same mechanisms - too awkward, so I won't say anything.
He either doesn't get it or more likely just isn't capable of putting words into action.
Just as my walls were starting to lower, I feel I want to build myself a fortress of safety now and never be vulnerable to him again.
He has never admitted anything off his own back, it has always been when put under pressure from me, and then a few added truths (but never all of it), for good measure. Just enough to make me think for a while that I have it all.
I've said it will take him moving mountains to rebuild even a starting block of trust with me - and yet THIS, it seems, he failed at on day one.
I may be overreacting, I'm not sure. But isn't trust supposed to be rebuilt on these little things? You say you will do something, so you do it. Not avoiding awkward conversations. Isnt this where R is supposed to start?
I don't know. I love him still, I enjoy his company and I think I can be content with carrying on in our family unit as we are for now, but I just don't think closeness or vulnerability is ever going to be a part of our marriage now š
4 comments posted: Tuesday, May 14th, 2024
Is infidelity just part of the human condition?
A thought popped into my head this morning - is infidelity just another part of the human condition?
Are we all selfish at our core on some level, to one degree or another ? No matter the cost to others?
I've had a bit of a tough time lately, being let down by people (not including the obvious WH). My mother in law, my team leader and a colleague who i have known for years, who I consider a good friend. All have behaved with a large degree of selfishness, but that i don't consider to be deliberately horrible people.
I think pretty much every human on the planet are all guilty of doing things that bring us some sort of temporary feel-good-feeling but that we ultimately know, isn't good for us. Whether it be smoking, drinking, drugs, over-spending, over-working, over/under eating, being self sacrificial.
I wonder whether in some capacity, affairs are not too dissimilar. It's odd that infidelity is, at large, condemned universally, but yet practiced universally. In some cultures it is punishable by death, but yet people still do it. WHY? Same in the way that we all are well aware that smoking greatly increases your risk of cancer. But yet people still do it. WHY? Are affairs just another form of vice? And until the root cause of why that vice is needed in the first place, it will continue to be a risk?
Whilst I can't say that receiving a shit load of validation from someone wouldn't make me feel a certain excitement and flattery, I can say that with all certainly that the negative consequences of taking a part of in an affair would hurt me far more then any pleasure I could get from it. I'm guessing that it is the other way around for people who cheat? And maybe, only until the pleasure/pain drive in someone is reversed, can they truly become a safe bet. Like the alcoholic who has to truly hit rock bottom and lose everything. Until the gain of drinking is outweighed by the negative outcomes of drinking (in their mind), can they become sober.
This only really popped into my head this morning because we had a domino's pizza last night, and we were both suffering with dodgy tummys this morning - as we usually do after a domino's. I was asking myself, "why do we do it? We know what the outcome will be". But I know the answer - because at the time, it was worth it (just to make it clear, I am not comparing a domino's to infidelity š).
8 comments posted: Wednesday, May 1st, 2024
Mother in law
On Tuesday my WH and I had a massive row. Well actually it wasn't a massive row - to keep it short, we had had a really good couple of weeks but then something triggered me and I found myself back at the "I know you're still lying, I can't do this" stage. Now because we had had such a good few weeks, this took my WH by surprise, he panicked and lost his shit. He got really angry, which upset me and I didn't want the kids around it!
So I sent him to his parents, we told the kids we need some space. Then on the Wednesday, they also went to his parents, as I had to work (this was the plan anyway, pre-argument).
He told his parents he was there because he lost his temper, he's lied about alot of stuff etc etc. Yet I hear nothing from his parents. They know I have no family here, yet nothing, just to check how I am.
Then last night WH drops the kids back and tells me that he is worried about both the kids. He said that his mum told him she had had a chat with our youngest (age 11), and that she had said to his mum "I'm glad daddy's with us here, because mummy keeps shouting at him".
I felt my heart dissolve. I was on the floor crying, snot everywhere, just heartbroken that I had made my daughter feel this way.
I text my mother in law to ask whether thats what she had said. She then replied that I need to stop, and that the kids are not objects, they are precious, don't drag the girls into this - I mean WHAT THE HELL? š”
I then spoke to my daughter calmly later on, and asked how she was feeling and what had she said to grandad. She said that grandma asked how she was, she said she was ok but glad there's no arguments happening. Then grandma asked her "who's more shouty?". She replied saying mummy is (which on the most part is true - apart from Tuesday - but thats the affect of trauma and continued TT. I hate how this has made me, and I hate that the kids have been so affected). My eldest has corroborated exactly what was said, and she knows her younger sister would never say what grandma had said she had said.
Anyway, I am absolutely livid that my mother in law has dared to quiz my daughter on "who is more shouty" (our daughter loves us both very much, and in my eyes thats an unnecessary test of her loyalty, which I know she would not like). It was absolutely inappropriate!!!!
But then to top it off, my mother in law has decided to relay that to my husband as "I'm glad daddy's with us here, because mummy keeps shouting at him". Our daughter actually over heard her grandma say this to her dad, which then she said really annoyed her, because it wasn't accurate and also she felt it was said in confidence. She also added that she thinks grandmas done this because "daddy is her child and she doesn't want to feel bad". I think she's spot on.
I am now at the point where I am just done with his parents. They were awful to me during the affair. WH lied to them, telling them I was the problem and that of course he wouldn't have an affair. His dad felt it appropriate to send me links to mental health websites, telling me I need help, I'm damaging my kids!!!!! On DDay I had his mum shouting down the phone at me that it wasn't true (despite finding irrefutable evidence). During the A, his mum even lied about his whereabouts. I cried down the phone to her every day when he left - he said me was staying there with his parents, he told his parents he was staying at a friends, but actually he was living with the AP. His mum lied to me and said he was staying there - if she had been honest, I may have found out about the A sooner and saved myself 3 months of torture š I feel like I have been stabbed in the back by each and every one of them.
My WH is incredible angry and disappointed at his mums actions and he is going to speak to her today. I've said I want nothing more to do with them, but he's saying that he just can't see how that will work. But its how I feel? Am I totally over reacting?
The good that has come out of this is the realisation of how damaging all of this has been to the kids. We have both handled it terribly. WH is coming home today and we have a plan so that the girls will not have to endure hearing us arguing about this ever again. I will absolutely no longer let that happen, no matter what. I feel like a terrible mother, I miss our Pre-A lives so much šŖ
21 comments posted: Sunday, April 14th, 2024
Back to square one
Yet more trickle truth it seems š
We're now 20 months out from dday, and just entering affair season 2. It's been TT throughout but 5 months ago my husband swore blind yet again that is was not hiding anything else.
My gut has not been able to sync with this, and yet again, under immense pressure, he has cracked and divulged a few more details. These details in no way change the story of the affair whatsoever, though. They are not in any way earth shattering. So I don't feel this is some new dday - but I do very much feel back at square one somehow.
The last 5 months has seen me become quite severely depressed, drink too much, a recurrence of my eating disorder and generally just disintegrate all round. Mostly because I've known in my gut he's still hiding things. And yep its true š
I'd like to point out that my husband, apart from the lying, has been all in during reconciliation. He's never once blamed me, he will talk whenever I need without any sign of frustration (zero get over it already), he's demonstrating sincere remorse and I believe would do anything I asked of him in order to reconcile - apart from give me honesty.
I know him lying centres around shame and fear. Not because he wants to harm me. I actually wonder whether he is so broken, that he is incapable of honesty?
Not sure where to go from here. I still don't believe this is everything. He again claims it is. But it feels very much the same as the last bout of TT.
At the point of giving up, everyday I feel I wake up into a nightmare and so I'd rather just stay asleep if I could, but I can't.
When did you know there was no more TT? I'd assume my gut would just settle, but it hasn't.
15 comments posted: Thursday, March 14th, 2024
Taunting the AP
Does anyone else ever try to taunt the AP on social media?
Throughout the A, my husband says she was constantly on my Facebook page. And she would bring up things with him, and get jealous. For example, he'd send her a song he liked and she would get angry saying "oh, that was yours and HER'S song wasn't it?! I saw it on her facebook". Quite creepy really - this is a person who I didn't even know existed.
My husband believes adamantly that she will still be checking my Facebook (even though she blocked me after dday - and then unblocked, and blocked and, unblocked and blocked etc). I mean, I know I check hers, but I have a reason š
So I do often enjoy posting happy photos of us, nights out, family occasions. WH encourages this, as he wants her to know full well we are together, so she is less likely to ever contact him again.
I put a post up a few days ago on my birthday, including a very sweet message my husband sent me, a few gifts, and generally just us having a nice time. During the A, towards the end it was her birthday. He didn't really want to see her, and was just waiting to get her birthday out the way. Apparently her birthday was a huge deal to her š He says he procrastined and just didn't want to get anything. So before seeing her, he grabbed some flowers and a cardboard birthday hat, and that was it (during our marriage, he's always been incredibly thoughtful with gift giving).
So I asked him to get the same hat for me as a joke, so I could put a pic on Facebook, jokingly saying "I'm glad this isn't all I got". Yes, yes, I know its childish, but I need some fun in my life š
A few days later, she's changed her profile settings to public, and suddenly written in her bio "The truth will prevail...". I know I poked the bear so to speak, but I just feel triggered and angry! What is that supposed to mean?! š¤ I can't help obsessing about its potential meaning! My husband says that he thinks its her feeling burnt by him. It makes me question whether I known everything? But then, unless she has somehow bugged our house, she can't know what he has told me (or hasnt).
Either way, husband says take it as a win. He feels she is clearly obsessing, she clearly still checks, and that means she's suffering in some way too. She is backpacking in another country, supposedly having the time of her life š
Has anyone else dabbled in similar taunting of the AP?
63 comments posted: Thursday, February 22nd, 2024
Compassion
I've always thought of myself as a highly compassionate, empathetic person. I think its important in the R process, but I can't seem to muster much at all - I feel a few flickers, but then it burns out again.
I know on a very basic level, that my WH's A, was a product of his own brokenness. This is a man that spent 13 years being kind to me, never raised his voice, was devoted to his family and treasured his career. Yes, it appears in hindsight that he was also very selfish and had extremely poor boundaries and I put him on a pedestal where he didn't belong - but he would be considered by all measures, a good egg.
During his affair, he was so angry all of the time. He was unreservedly cruel and cold towards me and our children. He became mentally abusive. He put his entire career and therefore our home, on the line. He could have lost absolutely everything he had worked hard for. He was the exact polar opposite of what I (and everyone who knows him) had ever known him to be. He even looked different to me. As soon as he ended the A, something changed in his eyes.
Typically when people begin new relationships, they do not suddenly morph into callous, angry monsters. They do not risk their job. The do not risk being disowned by their parents. So by this logic, I believe an affair MUST be a sign of a persons brokenness?
The question is, how do I see past the monster he presented as, to compassion for the man I loved for all those years?
12 comments posted: Wednesday, February 7th, 2024
WS lying to themselves...
This is more of a disappointed grumble then anything else.
Last night we were discussing the A, and I can't recall exactly how it came up, but my WH mentioned the fact that he believes he never would have had an A with a married woman (AP was single, no kids). He said he believes he would have thought of "the fall out" first, their kids etc. I of course, scoffed.
Now firstly, this hurts because of the absolute obvious. So, he was willing to destroy his own wife and kids, who he never gave a second thought to, but proclaims he would have given strangers a level of consideration he was not able to give his own family. Huh.
Secondly, I feel after 18 months of R, this man STILL has his head up his own ass. He is still unable to truly look at himself and be honest about who he is and what he is capable of - how can a WS really change if they still lie to themselves?
We had a discussion about it and he then agreed that ok, he would have been capable of having an affair with a married woman. Yet, what if I'd said nothing? Surely it shouldn't take me getting him to see the obvious, while he lives in complete denial?
Just disappointed that this is where he's at in 18 months š
20 comments posted: Saturday, December 30th, 2023
Empathy from your WS
I was wondering what others views/experiences of empathy are, when trying to R with their WS.
Is your WS empathetic and more importantly, how do they show you this through their actions?
In the face of your anger and upset, how do they continue to remain empathetic towards you?
6 comments posted: Thursday, November 23rd, 2023
Should he have let me know?
Firstly, please be gentle as I'm feeling really fragile. And I apologise in advance if this post is all over the place. I'll try and keep it short...
WH and I are about 17 months from DDay, he had a EA/PA and actually temporarily left me and our kids for the AP. He came back a short while after.
He has TT, gaslit and manipulated me through R, but has also seemed deeply remorseful and full of shame and guilt (I know that seems contradictory). About 5 or 6 weeks ago I really felt we had reached point where I possibly knew everything there was about the A, and that maybe he was finally telling the truth - or more that he had TT everything there was to know - there has to be an end point right? We even told our kids about the A, and I felt we became closer as a family.
We had a really peaceful few weeks, and I felt a sense of ease that I hadn't felt since before the A. However, my head, heart and gut just won't align it seems š
Over the past few days I just keep feeling this intense gut feeling that won't ease. In my gut, I can't accept that he's being honest. Now this could just be because of his chronic lying but, I could also be spot on. I have been every time before.
I feel he's hiding stuff from the past and the A. Some stuff I have no real reason to believe, its just a gut feeling, but a few other things are based on my own logic/phone bills.
We had a row last night and I think I reached my tipping point. I'm reflecting on some of the shitty things he said to me, which were in response to my own shitty statements, don't get me wrong.
I told him I don't understand why he is willing to risk being financially destitute, for the sake of taking a risk and telling me everything (if we separate he will seriously struggle, I've done the math). His response was that he won't be destitute as he will go "scorched earth" on me. What does this mean? It feels like a thinly veiled threat to me. Seriously?
I told him I wish he was not the father of my children (I know, I know, an abominable thing to say - but there is a nugget of truth there. Maybe if id had kids with someone else, they wouldn't have brought this shit storm into their lives). His response was that he wishes I wasn't their mother, either? I mean wtf? He's destroyed my life, my mental health, I've given him chance after chance....how can those words even leave his mouth? I know anger is the reason, but still. After the pain he has caused me?
Anyway, I snapped and said I was done. I told him I want to separate and that I have blocked him on WhatsApp and I only want to hear from him via email (which obviously makes no sense as we live together still? But I was reeling). He slept downstairs and went to work in the morning without a word. Not a peep all day. Fine, that's what I asked for right. It hasn't stopped me from crying and having a stomach full of knots all day whilst trying to work with two kids at home.
Before I knew he should be leaving from work this evening, I unblocked him on WhatsApp (gosh even writing that sounds so childish) and sent him a message asking him if he could please buy a bottle of wine on the way home, as I'm really not feeling OK (yes, not the best coping mechanism right now! Though maybe he'd offer an ember of empathy?). But no response. I checked life360 and he was 30 mins in the opposite direction of where he was due to finish. I can't explain the adrenaline that shot through me, but I felt sick to my stomach. He frequently used to use "late home from work", as an excuse to go and have sex with AP. I know rationally this wasn't what he was doing as AP is abroad and he doesn't work at the same place anymore, but the physiological response felt the same. Throughout R, he has ALWAYS let me know if he was going to be late off. And stayed in contact. He knows it's a huge trigger of mine.
Anyway, when I pointed out he clearly wasn't going to be home anytime soon as I've checked life360, his excuses for not letting me know are 1) didn't have time (yes he did). 2) I'd blocked him and he had no way of letting me know (text, house phone, email, a quick message to our kids?). 3) I had told him to leave me alone so he thought I wouldn't want to know.
It can't be all 3?
Nope. I believe he was being childish and obstinate. I told him to leave me alone, so that's what he's done, right? If I want to be left alone, then he sure as hell isn't going to let me know he's late home. If I worry and perhaps contact him, we'll then that's a bonus right?
I feel his actions are speaking volumes. Instead of stepping up when R isn't going his way, his response is to literally do nothing and then claim, well that's what I "told" him to do. Leave me alone. Shame he didn't do what I told him when i told him not to sleep with other people. Or lie to me to the point of making me unwell.
So...my point was...should he have let me know he was going to be late home? Or should I accept that, well I told him to leave me alone, so what can I expect? (Ha, just writing that made me remember why I blocked him on WhatsApp last night - he usually doesn't leave me alone when I tell him I'm done due to TT, and starts sending me articles about lying as a mental health disorder š¤).
I can feel myself detaching in a way I never have before š
21 comments posted: Friday, October 27th, 2023
When did you believe you had the entire truth?
Was there something your WS did that made you believe you had the whole truth and they were no longer hiding anything?
My WH has TT'd our marriage to death. He has followed the same pattern throughout - I will get a gut feeling about something, we will have a massive falling out, I'll inevitably tell him I no longer wish to R, he'll go away for a bit and eventually admit he's lying. He will then admit 2 or 3 more things, as an offer of "look, I'm offering information up now, I see the error of my ways". I will feel at ease, and start to believe he really "gets it". After a while, that same gnawing feeling will return...wash, rinse and repeat.
I feel, for me to fully believe he has nothing left to tell me, I need him to literally have a massive truth vomit. I need all of it, everything, big and small, for him to let go of every single lie he knows he is holding on to, even in our marriage pre-affair.
But again, he's adamant he has told me everything there is to tell. It's the same pattern.
Maybe he's finally telling the truth and there is nothing to tell anymore. But I know R will never work until I see something different.
So if you experienced TT, but now feel like you probably do have the whole truth, was there something your WS did/didn't do, that made you reach that point?
18 comments posted: Friday, September 22nd, 2023
How did you over come the hurt?
HOW did you over come the hurt of being betrayed?
I posted recently re my WH's trickle truthing. He's currently having hypnotherapy, which is helping him regress back into his childhood, to figure out when his issues with telling the truth began. He had a moment last week in a session where a memory came back to him from his childhood that he'd not even realised was there; he owned up to his dad to breaking a game controller, his dad lost is shit and called him all sorts, made him feel literally insignificant and stupid. He started crying in his session. The hypnotherapist believes he has a deep seated fear of telling the truth, fearing abandonment.
I'm not sure what I think about any of the above. But things in our household have settled massively. Things are calm.
I'm doing a lot of reflection, and I'm stuck. Aside from the lying, he is giving me everything I'm asking for and what is recommended a WS should do. He's never once tried to blame me, he talks about the A when I need to (which is pretty much all the time), he checks on me throughout the day and brings A related things up. He has zero feelings for the AP, apart from contempt. Changed jobs, STD testing, he regularly shares thoughts of guilt and shame. There's nothing he won't do.
In addition to this, we still get along so well. We can talk for hours, we laugh together, we enjoy all of the same things, we've joined a gym and starting running again together. We have great family days out with the kids. We are still very affectionate. We share the same goals for the future.
But I still feel like there is a hole in my heart that will never heal. Despite all of the above, when I stop and think, I don't believe I can ever get over everything he's done. I think even without the TT, I don't think I'd be able to. Then I think of leaving, and I feel a little weight off my shoulders in someway. I make my peace with my decision to leave - but then, I suddenly find myself already planning our next night out/Christmas gettaway/camping.
I feel like there's something wrong with me š
11 comments posted: Sunday, August 20th, 2023
The destruction of TT
Trickle truth - marriage killer. Everything I've read is true.Ā
Please someone help, I am at such a complete loss. I am feeling worse and worse, I can't even bare waking up in the mornings.
My WH and I have been trying to R, but unfortunately he has spent the last 15 months since the A, TT. All manner of things, big and small.Ā
About 2 weeks ago, I gave him a 2 month deadline. I told him I want him to tell me ALL of the things he KNOWS he's hiding , to finish his timeline (this was only started about 3/4 weeks ago - not because of any reluctance from him but more because I kept finding out more and more lies, so felt, well what's the point if its written when he's still lying to my face!?) with as much accuracy as he can recall and drop the defensiveness and anger (this always seems to come into play when he's lying - if we're just talking about the A he's actually very empathetic). At the end of those two months I was going to then consider whether I still want to TRY to R, and also follow up his timeline with a polygraph if I felt necessary.Ā
Since I've offered him this 2 month opportunity to try and show me he is R material, he has:
1. Lied to my face re another aspect of the A. He only admitted it when I applied a LOT of pressure, and the threat of ending our marriage. This was about a week or so ago.
2. He has admitted to me off his own back, two aspects of the A that were incorrect. One of them being that a part of his timeline he'd previously written was a lie. Actually, another big lie. The other admission was minor really.
Today I asked him a question re the A, and I just in my gut feel he is lying. I think xyz happened and he maintains it didn't. But I trust my gut; my trust for him is non-existent. Every single other hunch I've had that he's been lying, I've been spot on.Ā
He has gone to great lengths to manipulate me previously, even though he knows he's lying. He has seen me distraught the to point I have hit my head on things, dug knives into my palms, he's goaded me to message AP to "prove" he's telling the truth (he was lying - how utterly humiliating that would've been, eh?), he's punched walls, he's smashed our crockery, he's thrown his phone at our family photo frame and broken it - all in anger at being accused of such and such (but yet, he was still lying).
So I'm at a serious sticking point. He maintains that there is in fact nothing left that he is purposfully hiding from me. He says he believes there might be things he's forgotten, that the continuation of his timeline might bring other things to surface for him, but that in any event, there is nothing to his knowledge that he is keeping from me. He is now even willing to take a polygraph to back this statement up. Is this yet more bluffing? His rationale is that I know A LOT about the A (it lasted 3 months and he's correct, I do know a lot), and that maybe I need to consider the fact that there is literally nothing else to know (like I say, I do know a lot). Because the amount of things he's hidden, has to end somewhere.....
But my gut is telling me, still, he is hiding some things. My gut has been surprisingly (scarily) accurate. But equally I recognise, I am fallible. I am vulnerable, I am on high alert. There is of course the possibility I am wrong, and he is being truthful in saying that everything he has hidden has been divulged (via TT). I describe this to him as using up all of his possible "trust points" on TT, so there is nothing left for us to build on unfortunately.
I feel I am willing to end our marriage at this point on just a hunch and a (scarily accurate) gut feeling. Because who else can I trust?Ā
But what if I'm wrong? Does it matter? I gave him two months to show change and he was STILL lying to me a week later, even then!?
I can't seem to articulate how much I am struggling, and how much this man has messed with my head šŖ
Edited to add:
I feel I need to add, that this situation has not brought out the best in me either. I have been god awful to him in return. I have shouted in his face and said awful things to him (actually we have both done this if I'm honest...), I have sat on top of him I.eĀ "mounted" (as he likes to refer) him and begged for the truth (for reference I am 8st, he is 17st). All of this has stemmed from what feels like torture š I am not proud of behaving so uncharacteristically scathing, scornful and unkind.Ā I've become someone I really don't like.
15 comments posted: Wednesday, August 9th, 2023
Reconciliation where the WS left for the AP?
Has anyone managed to successfully R, in a situation whereby the WS actually left at one point or another, for the AP?
This is very much where I feel so stuck.
My WH met the AP, and within 6 weeks (yep, 6 whole weeks) decided to leave our family and 13 year marriage for her because he had "never felt this way before". Of course he was too cowardly at the time to tell me this was the reason he was leaving. He simply said something inside him had snapped, he no longer loved me and, to quote "Maybe I've never loved you". He hurt my heart so much I thought I was going to die. Now it just feels like there's an empty void there. Anyway, I digress...
Within a week of leaving our family and playing house with her, he says reality of what he'd done kicked in and the sheen of the AP wore off. He realised this "love" he felt for her was a lie and he just loved the way she made him feel. Their conversations even became flat (as did his erections, I'm told š¤).
I naturally welcomed him back with open arms, and concluded that he was going through a personal crisis. I was sending him links about depression and trying my best to look after him, walking on egg shells. I was such a fool š
He continued to see the AP, although true to his cowardly nature and conflict avoidy personality, decided to try and "phase" her out by being cold and disinterested in the hopes she would end things, so he wouldn't have to. However, the more he pulled away, the nuttier she became; demanding his Google location, photos of where he was, screen shots of his call history. If he didn't oblige, she would threaten to "get her answers elsewhere". He was starting to see a really insideous side of her and he became terrified she would go to his work and make false allegations (which wouldn't just result in a job loss - but he could have ended up in the media, our children would find out and potentially have their lives made a nightmare...just a whole world of f*ckery could unfold). Anyway, a couple of weeks later, I found out...
His IC is of the opinion that he had some kind of psychotic break. She feels that decided to leave a 13 year marriage, and a good one at that, for someone you've known for 6 weeks, is extremely unstable behaviour. I'm not sure I buy this. Either way, it kills me that he could be so fickle as to throw away what we had for someone he barely knew. And there was a time where He. Chose. Her.
I don't know how to even process that fact.
14 comments posted: Saturday, June 10th, 2023
Marriages that have R in real life?
I don't know of any relationships in real life that have R. I've only known of couples that have separated following an affair. I actually didn't know R was a "thing", I just naively presumed infidelity leads immediately to divorce.
I feel people around me just don't have any comprehension of how painful infidelity is š I can't help but feel people secretly think I should just be moving on given that we are R.
It is a lonely place to be at times.
19 comments posted: Saturday, May 20th, 2023
Is a degree of trickle truth inevitable?
I was just wondering whether people feel some degree of TT is inevitable?
DD one year anniversary is just over a month away and despite promising and vowing not TT, my H has. The last TT was about 7 weeks ago and now I have, yet again, more renewed promises etc etc š
The saddest thing is, the things he has lied about are minor and in no way change the outcome of us trying to R. For example, I asked whether he took annual leave to see her (he denied this but it now transpires he took 2 hours leave very early on - but like I say, it doesn't change anything, I just want the truth!). Yet he has admitted to some other pretty gruesome details. The duration of the A is as he said, I knew it was an EA/PA right from the beginning, and I know there has been absolutely NC.
It's just minor details he slips up on. He has a knee jerk reaction to lie and then digs himself a hole (something he's done since childhood). He says it's because he's terrified one more thing will tip me over the edge and I'll leave. Yet I've promised I won't, and I just need the truth. He's seen the things he's TT about, literally drive me nuts, and still held back, digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself.
Other then the TT, he has mostly been a model WH. I don't want to throw the towel in, but I am so sick of being lied to. I just feel despondent and empty at the moment though, like he has again shattered the little bit of hope we had built up, over the most ridiculous thing to lie about.
But is some TT almost expected? Is it unrealistic to expect someone as broken as a WS to suddenly be able to fix years of ingrained self protective behaviour, this quickly?
Ironically, I have a grain of trust that he probably won't cheat again. I can see how he has destroyed himself and he has changed in so many other ways for the better.
20 comments posted: Friday, May 5th, 2023
When is there too much to forgive?
Hello there from the UK!
I found about 9 months ago that my husband was having an affair. The affair lasted 3 months and was both a PA/EA.
He basically met her, there was a spark, he sought her out on social media - a week later they've kissed and two weeks later he's having sex with her. Fast forward 6 weeks later, he's telling me we are done, he left me and our girls (aged now 10 and 11 - I will never forget my eldest telling me she wishes she was dead when she found out her dad was leaving).
Naturally, he didn't tell me, nor anyone else that he was leaving his wife of 13 years and his daughters for some young girl he's known for 6 weeks. He told everyone, including his family that he had "snapped". He told me he didn't love me, and that maybe he never had loved me. The pain he caused me was inexplicable. I couldn't get up off the floor, I thought I was going to die of a broken heart. We had always had an extremely close, loving relationship, so this was so out of the blue - and for anyone who knew us.
A week later, he came back, telling me he loved me and he'd missed me and he was sorry. Yet for the next month, continued to be cold and distant. I came to the conclusion he was depressed, so I picked up all the slack at home whilst trying to look after two kids and work full time, struggling with the trauma he put me through.
To cut a long story short, my gut started kicking into action. I know things weren't adding up, and he was becoming more and more gaslighting towards me. I'd reached me limit where I just told him to go to his parents. Turns out he was turning his family against me, saying I wouldn't give it a rest and am acting crazy. Then I found evidence that he was having an affair, but instead of coming back and trying to reconcile with me, he went to her. I even received a nasty message from his dad telling me he knows his son wouldn't do such a thing, saying that I had destroyed my marriage with my issues and that I need help as I am hurting my children with my behaviour!!!!!!!!!
A week after I found out and he came to take the kids to school, I saw his eyes almost go back to normal. It's like he'd had an exorcism. He said he was ending things with her - and he did.
Move to now, and he is an absolutely completely different person! He is full of remorse, he had never once blamed me, we talk until the early hours, he is receiving IC and he is journalling. He deleted any social media and I'm offered all the transparency I need.
BUT, I feel this is not just an affair I'm getting over - it is the total and absolute betrayal and violation of another human being. During the A, he literally treated me horrifically.
It's probably easier to list the things that I am stuck on:
- He told me he didn't love me and probably never had.
- He left me and his children for a girl he had known for 6 WEEKS.
- He sought her out on social media and jumped into bed with her, with such ease. Not a thought for me and his children.
- He put me down to others and told lies about me, saying I was the issue for our marriage woes.
- unbeknownst to me, when he came back after that week of leaving, he was removing his wedding ring and actually telling friends and colleagues he was SINGLE and we were just living together.
- He told a mutual friend of ours about some childhood abuse that happened to me, that I had shared with him years ago in confidence. Using it to "justify" me having issues and being the problem.
- He told her he "has never felt this way before" - I know this was all during the fog, and it wasn't real, but it still physically hurts me.
- I don't drive and the year before the A, we moved somewhere fairly remotish, with poor public transport. So this kids and I were more of less stranded and I had to rely on friends (no family nearby) to get around.
- He violated my character to his family and they turned on me when I needed support.
- When I found out about the A, he continued it for a week, even after I offered an olive branch. I called him when he was there, and he was so awful to me, just saying we are done and to leave him alone!
- Then the cherry on top, was that about 2 months after the A, and we were working on things, I found out he had been messaging a girl from work 12 years younger, and then deleting conversation - this was after I said to him anymore secrecy and I'm done!!! He got screenshot of the messages, and they were perfectly innocent. He just has constantly needed ego kibbles and to know people like him. But at my expense.
Is all of this "too much" to forgive? I just don't know. I feel completely and utterly destroyed by the absoluteness of his betrays.
I'm trying, he's trying, but it just hurts so much. I'm getting EMDR on Thursday, in the hopes that helps with some of the trauma.
23 comments posted: Friday, April 7th, 2023
