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No. At least you have reminded her why.

I am sorry these horrible things happened to you and your family.

So, she has lost everything that adds value and beautiful meaning to her life like a loving husband, a happy marriage, loving daughters and their respect and admiration towards her. She is now making desperate attempts to regain some value and worthiness. But, it's too late. That's the karma, I guess. A good example for 'yes, cheaters to suffer consequences.'

I would steer clear of her. Don’t get drawn into her toxic brew.

Under no circumstances should you ever be under the same roof as your ex WW.

You should point out to your daughter that your ex WW is incapable of putting anyone else’s feelings above her own, as evidenced by the suicide attempt. If she really wanted to celebrate the kids birthdays, she would be planning her own separate events and celebrations. The reason she is intent on having them jointly with you is to make HERSELF the center of attention.

Also, if your ex is crazy and manipulative enough to attempt to take her own life as a means of coercing you, then who knows what other stunts she might pull in the future for attention or spite. She is not a safe person to be around.

This might not be popular but I don’t believe there is such thing as "attempted suicide". It either is or isn’t. Having been closely affected by suicide, my MIL and my best friend, they did it without warning and caught everyone off guard.

There is suicide, and there is a cry for help. Those that I know that have "attempted" are glad to be alive today and just needed time to sort out some bull shit.

Your EX did this to dump some blame and guilt on you, don’t fall for it, it’s manipulative, and if she did succeed none of her bull shit is your fault.

Work towards detachment rather than ongoing hate.
There hopefully will come a time where you can be in the same area as your wife. Not chit-chatting or enjoying a cup of tea, but in the same area because you both have a reason to be there.
I get it that you might want to skip a grandkid’s birthday. You can always make up for that next weekend by taking said child out for a great time. But what about when that grandkid is graduating college? Or getting married? Can hardly have two graduations or two receptions…

I think it’s very self-centered to think she tried suicide to get at you. I think it would be good to speak to your daughter and simply tell her that at the moment your anger and pain is still so fresh that it’s for your best that you aren’t in the same area as her mom, but that maybe in some years that might change. Or not.

I think it’s very self-centered to think she tried suicide to get at you.

This is likely not calculated to get her way. She's clearly suffering right now and has convinced herself that OP can provide some kind of relief. His presence, especially if he is also struggling with trying to empathize with her, may make it worse.

[This message edited by 1994 at 3:12 PM, Monday, June 5th]

And now she's asking me to please do birthday parties with mom. I said no that I wouldn't be manipulated like that. So now my daughter is upset with me.

My own DD has spent a long time in IC to deal with her toxic, manipulating father. Is your DD in counseling?

Learning how to deal with toxic people is such a gift.

You are doing what you need to do by setting an example to your own DD about saying no to toxicity in your own world. Keep on your path.

What a selfish, toxic, terrible human being your ex wife is… I am angry for you and as I was reading your list I thought "it cannot get worse" and then… it got worse when she abandoned her dying kid in hospital because it kept her awake. Who TF does that?

I can’t tell you what to do…She is now proving once again how selfish she is by making this all about her and manipulating your daughter by attempting suicide. Who does that?! I don’t know what you should do, I just know that her presence in your life will definitely bring you more pain so think about that very carefully.

Tanner, I don't even think this attempt qualifies "cry for help." I don't think Golden R's ex had any intention of killing herself; she just wanted to make herself sick enough that she would need medical care and get pity from daughter and Golden R.

Hellfire you have a pm

My apologies, Golden, for my post.

"I would not cave in to this. Take care of you and I hope that getting that off your chest will help you work toward indifference. Do talk to your daughter about what will work best for YOU moving forward. So very sorry about the loss of Cayce."

I have found fareast to give safe words of wisdom.

I too am so sorry about the loss of your daughter.

I echo what others have said about taking exquisite care of yourself. For me that will be me never being as close as even being in the same county as WH who I am divorcing. Never speaking to them again either. They are simply that dangerous to me.

Hellfire - your post was just fine. But I appreciate WOES looking out for me.

To address some points brought up...

My daughter called me late last night and apologized. Said everything she said was an emotional response and that she'll go with whatever I decide.

As for what my real wife thinks, she just says it's all my decision. The only significant amount of time that she's ever spent with my xww was during my daughter's hospitalization/passing and the days after leading up to and through the funeral. She got along with her ok. I remember shortly after they took my daughter for organ harvesting, my xww was trying to get ahold of herself and calm down. She looked at my real wife and approached her. Then she hugged her very tightly and said over and over, "Thank you for raising my daughter and for loving her like your own". So I think that softened my real wife on her.

After talking to my daughter, my XWW's husband and even my XWW's therapist (my daughter asked if she could give her my number and i agreed, XWW also told her she could talk to be about anything), I've found out that ever since July of last year when my daughter passed, that xww has been on a "making myself a better person" quest. Where in the past every time she do something nice, she'd then prove herself of being the same person as always shortly after. That's no longer happening.

When I spoke to her therapist she said her initial thoughts were that everything I threw in her face were things that she had locked away in her head and then threw away the key as if they didn't happen. And then when i blasted her with it, it all came back and she couldn't handle how bad of a person she once was. She admitted this was very preliminary as she had only spent an hour with her since the attempt. She said she thinks me doing that to her may have been the best thing to happen to her in a long time (save for the attempt) as the two of them will now have EVERYTHING out in the open to talk about.

Surprisingly, ever since I unloaded on her, which I had NEVER EVER done before, I've felt no hatred towards her. Not saying I want to be best friends with her. I just find myself not giving a shit about her one way or the other. I don't want her to die, but I also wouldn't mourn her if she did. Does that make sense?

I think like (I think it was) Sissoon and Bigger said, I need to reach total indifference.

I think I'll give it a while, see how I feel...next party is November. I'll tell my daughter to reach out in October and we'll talk about it.

I appreciate everyone's responses so much. Love this place.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 6:52 PM, Monday, June 5th]

Surprisingly, ever since I unloaded on her, which I had NEVER EVER done before, I've felt no hatred towards her. Not saying I want to be best friends with her. I just find myself not giving a shit about her one way or the other. I don't want her to die, but I also wouldn't mourn her if she did. Does that make sense?

It sounds like by unburdening yourself of all the shit that you've been carrying for a long time that it actually helped you. You've reached a stage of somewhat indifference. Sure, she will always be a part of your life as the mother of your shared children and you don't wish her any arm but she made her bed, now let her lie in it. As for you XWW, no one ever wants to be the villain in their own story, but if she is serious about her own healing, recovery and growth, you just gave her a metric ton of truth all in one short conversation. She has your daughter and her own support network, or so it seems. You can go back to maintaining NC and let those around her deal with it. Sure, with a shared child, you can never fully go NC with her, but no reason to concern yourself with the day-to-day of your XWW, to you, she is just another person out there.

I just find myself not giving a shit about her one way or the other.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

The opposite of love is not hate…but indifference.

If you decide that you are fine attending the parties together, that is certainly your choice.

However, if this were a wedding, funeral, or graduation, I get that concessions need to be made.

But as someone else said, there can be two birthday parties. That doesn’t hurt anybody.

Surprisingly, ever since I unloaded on her, which I had NEVER EVER done before, I've felt no hatred towards her. Not saying I want to be best friends with her. I just find myself not giving a shit about her one way or the other. I don't want her to die, but I also wouldn't mourn her if she did. Does that make sense?

That's great! Unloading may very have enabled you to become indifferent.

Nothing to add GoldenR, I am just sending you my support, man!

I’m glad to read the update, the journey out of infidelity and toward healing is a path we have to take whether it’s D or R. Baggage has to be processed and let go along the journey. It sounds like you have lightened your load.

Golden,

From someone not in such a dissimilar situation it seems you have handled this as well as possible.

If have really found that key to indifference I very much look forward to reading about it.

My sincere wishes to you and your daughter.