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Completely confused and all over the place

Topic is Sleeping.
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de.va.sta.ted ( member #22922) posted at 1:19 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

Ozzy, your life WILL get back to a good place. Not overnight, but it will happen.

I get that confronting her was not the path you wanted to take. You thought if you give her freedom, she will naturally return to the marriage, which would make it stronger because she wasn't coerced, that she would choose you and your kids.
But that is all about HER.

Now you have made YOUR needs known. Having needs and boundaries is NOT being needy or rigid. It's actually healthy and normal. And it sounds like she's not interested in your needs, if they infringe on her desire to be involved with someone else.

It will get better, but you have to take care of you for things to improve.

Wishing you as ok a day as you can have, under the circumstances.

Me: BW Him: WH D-Day 1: February 2009 D-Day 2: April 2018 Divorced!

posts: 1049   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2009
id 8784511
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 1:52 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

There’s a popular mantra on SI: you have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it.

Every person on here who has successfully reconciled has, at one point or another, drew a hard line in the sand and said some variation: "You can do whatever of you want, but not as wife/husband."

I’m guessing your wife is lashing out because you’re not the chump she thought you were. She will cycle through an entire wheel of manipulation over the course of the next few days (or even hours!): rage, guilt, denial, deflection, despair, etc.

Trust me when I say that you have a lot more power in this situation than you realize. Your wife does NOT a want to be a single mother, especially while her AP remains happily married to his wife. She does NOT want to explain to her kids, her family, and your mutual friends that you’re splitting up because she didn’t want to give up being a married man’s sidepiece. In fact it’s safe to say that her AP would probably dump her if she became available because she would no longer be "safe" to keep as a mistress.

But if your wife really has completely lost her mind and is willing to throw away her husband and her family to be her ex’s piece of ass, then you never had a chance to save your marriage to begin with… telling her "no" just expedited you through years of pain and heartache.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 1:53 PM, Tuesday, March 28th]

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1894   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8784514
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bob7777 ( member #79867) posted at 2:52 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

So sad, but that's the denial phase. So determined to be smarter than all of them. It's your life, your choices, but realize this, it's just fresh for you but lived experience for the many of us. You can't smart-ass your way through this, you will try but you will fail if you continue on this path.

Your wife is extremely selfish and so are you. I don't really get why you won't tell OBS, I read your excuse, the theory that ignorance is bliss, but I don't buy it. I think you are just embarrassed and you don't know how to do it. The fact that your "friend" allegedly doesn't know that you know is weird. So what does it tell us, your wife is having at least an EA with your friend but she's also lying to him, that's strange. Furthermore you don't confront your friend or you don't talk to him about it, although you enabled it so far. So why is there no interaction between you and your "friend"? I think it adds to the embarrassment. Nevertheless, with this action you choose to lie to your "friend's" wife. Imagine you hadn't this dynamic with your wife, she was having an affair with your "friend" without your knowledge and without your permission, after some years you find out and you realize not only did she betray you with your friend but also your friend's wife knew all along and never told you, and everytime you met up with her on getogethers she smiled at you, played a good friend, listened to you, gave you advice. And eventually you confront her and ask her why she didn't tell you, she tells you, she didn't want to destroy your happy life. That's you.

You have a long way to go, don't try to do it on your own, listen occasionally to some advice here. Wish you the best.

[This message edited by bob7777 at 2:52 PM, Tuesday, March 28th]

posts: 106   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2022
id 8784520
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SI Staff ( Moderator #10) posted at 3:14 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

Bob7777 you have a PM.

posts: 10033   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 8784529
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Belle25 ( member #63676) posted at 3:44 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

I'm sorry your talk last night didn't go well. I imagine you're seeing things differently now and questioning all of it.

My opinion: regardless of what she tells you she is going to do, she will continue the affair, she will just take it underground now. This will make it even more exciting for her. I know we've beaten this to death, but the best way to avoid that right now is to tell his wife. That should throw some ice water on the whole thing, at least temporarily.

If she is refusing to call it off after you directly told her to, well, this was never the situation you thought you gave your "blessing" to. Best of luck.

posts: 64   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2018
id 8784534
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Lurkingsoul12 ( member #82382) posted at 3:50 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

You made your stance very clear. This is a good sign. You tried to kill her fantasy bubble, which definitely infuriates her. Yes, she will resent you for it for a time being. But without killing the bubble, you can't bring her back to reality. If she really loves and wants you, eventually she will see the light and will understand the reason behind your actions. There are plenty of successful reconciliation stories where the waywards who resented their partners for trying to kill their affair were later very glad that that happened. They acknowledge that without killing the fantasy, it would have been far difficult for them to go back to reality and to their marriage. And longer the affair goes, weaker the waywards get and harder it becomes for them to kill it on their own. So, all in all, in order to kill your wife's fantasy, she must be brought to reality and needs to see the consequences of her fantasy. You expressing your pain, hurt, dissatisfaction, and disappointment is the first step towards exposing her to the consequences of her actions. It takes time for the truth to sink in her head. Until then, be firm, be consistent, and please don't play 'pick me'. Remember, you are not being selfish here. You are only trying to save your marriage and your kids. So, don't let her gaslight you. She might throw everything she got at you to gaslight you and manipulate you into letting her continue this unhealthy fantasy. Please, don't give in. You don't have to give her ultimatums. You don't have to force her. You don't have to tolerate this bullshit either. You don't have to pretend to be ok when you are clearly not. There is a fire in your house. So far, you tried avoiding putting it off. Now you clearly see the damage it is causing. Its time for your wife to know that this fire is real and is consuming everything you both have built together. And she is the cause of it. Protect your sanity and your kids.

The best way to kill affair is by exposing it. Exposure takes away the fun out of affair fantasy. Without fun fantasy will not survive. Informing OBS will definitely kill the fantasy. Again, it's up to you.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 6:17 PM, Tuesday, March 28th]

posts: 457   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2022
id 8784535
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 4:07 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

The best way to kill affairs is by exposing it. Exposure kills the affair and suddenly affair is not fun anymore. Informing OBS will definitely kill the fantasy.

I have never cheated so I don't know the emotions that go on in a cheater's head. I have read that the Secretive, Forbidden, Taboo nature of an affair increases the dopamine levels in the brain exponentially from what they would be if an affair is carried out in the open. From what I have gathered so far is that the Other Betrayed Spouse does not know what her scumbag husband is doing behind her back in the dark. I believe if you tell her what is going on and she confronts her husband that she knows, that he will drop your wife like a hot potato as quickly as he can in order to save his own marriage.

Someone once wrote that exposing an affair is like turning on the lights and watching the cockroaches scatter.

posts: 273   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8784536
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numb&dumb ( member #28542) posted at 5:38 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

If she is refusing to call it off after you directly told her to, well, this was never the situation you thought you gave your "blessing" to

This x 1000.

Dday 8/31/11. EA/PA. Lied to for 3 years.

Bring it, life. I am ready for you.

posts: 5116   ·   registered: May. 17th, 2010
id 8784546
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 5:51 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

Ozzy,

Been watching from the bleachers as the other posters are nailing it down well.

I just wanted to add, that it’s easy for us to criticize and give tough advice because we’re not knee deep in the alligators (crocs down under) as you are. We’re also not in love with your WW. We’re not invested and we have nothing at stake, as you do and, we’ve made it. We’ve made it to the other side. We’re confident in our views now, but we definitely weren’t back when we were in your shoes.

So, it’s important for us to take ourselves back to the moment that you are in right now, to really empathize with you and, it can be very triggering for us do that. It can be very triggering to empathize too much with you. When we see someone going through what you’re going through, it’s very anxiety inducing. So please bear with us. We just want to reach out and grab you like a son, a brother, or a former self we desperately want to save from the precipice.

So, going forward, listen to us in THIS context understanding that we are you, you are the former us before we climbed out of the hell that you’re in now.

Another thing. Totally different subject:

The 180 that everyone is preaching. Some aspects of this approach are a bit counterintuitive and understated.

There is nothing more attractive, more respectable, more appealing, more inspiring, admirable, more sexy than, seeing, witnessing someone protecting their dignity, their self respect, their rights, their integrity with confidence and unyielding determination.

It’s a show of nobility and inner strength that gives even the least remorseful wayward pause. We have seen many waywards, deeeep in the fog, shocked back to reality by the noble self protective resolve of a betrayed spouse.

"She/He never looked so good as they did when they were walking out the door"

"You have to be willing to lose the marriage to save the marriage"

You want a spouse who comes back fighting for you. You deserve that-right? Rhetorical question.

This is your fleeting opportunity to show her your worth, your strength, dignity, initiative and resolve. She’ll be taken aback at first, she’s not expecting this. She may even strike back, victimize herself, gaslight you, hoping you’ll back down, but…she will, at least on some level, come to respect and admire it.

posts: 1307   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8784548
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 10:17 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

On way home and short on time but big changes. Last night she wasn't happy that she didn't have control of when it ended. I actually said that I knew this was a 2 way street so it didn't have to be immediate. In the ensuing argument I admitted I'd checked her FB messages in between her admitting no feeling for me and admitting feelings for me (I feel shit about this but my mind was a mess) and she isn't happy about me not trusting her. I actually can't argue this as I've said from the beginning she's been honest.

Anyway today she has told the other guy that it's off so healing can begin. Didn't expect that but shows me that posting here has done me the world of good so thank you.

To the person who asked about "friend" I don't know the guy so you've missed something there.

Reality blows ( with no disrespect to other posts, just theirs was most recent) : thank you so much. I've had a few beers and this is the kind of thing that warms my heart. I've already made a vow to myself to help other people on here no matter what happens with me.

posts: 168   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8784598
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MickeyBill2016 ( member #56459) posted at 4:30 AM on Wednesday, March 29th, 2023

Last night she wasn't happy that she didn't have control of when it ended.

It is good that you took back some control and she may learn that sometimes you don't get everything on your own terms.
To quote Churchill "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning"...of her "open marriage"

9 years married.
13 years divorced.

posts: 1270   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2016   ·   location: West of the 405 North of the Mexican border
id 8784624
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Lurkingsoul12 ( member #82382) posted at 6:35 AM on Wednesday, March 29th, 2023

I actually said that I knew this was a 2 way street so it didn't have to be immediate.

Can you explain what you meant by this?

In the ensuing argument I admitted I'd checked her FB messages in between her admitting no feeling for me and admitting feelings for me

This is kinda confusing. Is there a typo mistake here? Is it - her admitting no feelings for me and admitting feelings for (him)?

Problem with your wife's thinking is she believes it's the lying and deceit that makes infidelity wrong and hurtful. So, her being honest and transparent about it shouldn't hurt you and be a problem. This is flawed thinking. Even without lying and deceit, infidelity is still wrong and painful. This doesn't work in monogamous marriage.

Anyway, it's good that she ended her affair. Now, she should focus all her energy on healing you and this marriage. You losing trust in her is because of this shenanigan. She should be working towards rebuilding this trust. Permanent NC with her AP in all forms is the first step towards it. Any kind of contact with him will always keep the window open for reigniting the affair. She might not tell you next time. Next might, she might just say, "Ignorance is bliss". What you don't know will not hurt you,right? This is your philosophy. She could use your philosophy against you. Continue her affair and keep you in "blissful Ignorance". You did say you are fine with 'blissful ignorance'. So, be vigilant. I hope she didn't change her FB passwords. Or passwords of all her other social media accounts. She could continue her affair through other social media platforms.

a) She is blissfully unaware. Loads of people have affairs and the cheated partner never has a clue that it happened, and carry on living their happy life. But I don't want to blow up her life for something that might never become a problem for her.


This is wayward thinking. This is how every cheater justifies their affair. They all say, "We lie, we hide, we deceive because we are protecting our partners from pain and hurt".

In some ways I wish I was one of those


Careful what you wish for. She might just grant your wish.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 8:25 AM, Wednesday, March 29th]

posts: 457   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2022
id 8784627
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 1:24 PM on Wednesday, March 29th, 2023

One of two things happened here.

She talked to him,he was worried that,now that you want to stop sharing your wife,that you might tell his wife. He wasn't about to lose his wife and family over some other woman,and he told her it was over.(You are in denial if you believe he doesn't know you know. Of course he has known. A big part of an affair is secrecy. How to message without being caught,how to meet without being caught, what lies they will tell their spouse,etc)

Or, the affair is still ongoing, they've just taken it underground. This is most likely. And,it will be easy for her to do,because you see this woman who you believe has been lying to the OM,and is perfectly fine with being the OW in a marriage with his wife not knowing, as some pillar of honesty. Keep your eyes open. A burner phone is highly likely.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6628   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8784646
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Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 3:51 PM on Wednesday, March 29th, 2023

Ozzy, Glad you are starting to open your eyes !

Your comment on checking her FB messages is a bit confusing. Your wife is unhappy about you checking her FB messages while she indulges in a dirty affair and wants you to accept it ( and the AP’s wife to continue being oblivious). She wants her right to privacy while she denies another woman the choice to know the truth in her marriage. Do you see the hypocrisy like I do?

Is it ok for me to punch someone in the face because I tell them before I punch them? Is it ok for me to not let someone know that the foundation to their house is rotting because the house looks fine over all? The punch will still give a bloody nose and the house will come crashing down at some point.

posts: 277   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2023
id 8784661
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 4:32 PM on Wednesday, March 29th, 2023

Can you please clarify your post? Specifically, it sounds like you told her to stop seeing him, but gave her the option of continuing. Also, I was confused by what you said about her "not having feelings for me/having feelings for me."

Did you wife agree to stop speaking with him completely or just to stop having sex with him? If they are still in contact, then the affair is--for all intents and purposes-- still active and it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for her to focus on saving your marriage. My concern is that you're probably unwilling to forbid her from keeping him around as "a friend" because you already feel like a villain for asking her to stop sleeping with him.

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1894   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8784668
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 7:22 PM on Wednesday, March 29th, 2023

Sorry been a tough day. We both had to call in sick and spent most of the day chatting and crying.

"In the ensuing argument I admitted I'd checked her FB messages in between her admitting no feeling for me and admitting feelings for HIM (I feel shit about this but my mind was a mess) and she isn't happy about me not trusting her." Typo there, sorry. In that initial period between the first chat about our relationship and her admitting her feelings for him I checked her FB messages. She is unhappy about this as she has told me the truth about everything. I know this is hard for everyone to believe but it is true.

She was very upset today as she didn't want to end contact with him, but did as she understood that for us to have any chance of healing it needs to happen. I was surprised she did it so quickly as I would have been OK with her seeing him face to face to do it (remember I made the screw up of agreeing to her seeing him in the first place).

Anyway we are going to work on our relationship for now. She has properly fallen for this guy so needs to get him out of her head for a bit and then we will decide whether we can work it out. If not, then we will separate and I am sure she would go back to him (but only if he has broken it off with his wife, she gets this bit too now) but we will no longer be together.

We have our last session with one counsellor tonight (sadly this series hasn't done much as all this other stuff has been going on) but after all our talking today we will be in a better place to start with a new counsellor.

We have the makings of a plan if we separate which could work as well as possible for the boys. Wish us luck.

posts: 168   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8784698
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FunHouseMirror ( member #80992) posted at 7:31 PM on Wednesday, March 29th, 2023

She has NOT been telling you the truth all along.

Did she happen to mention to YOU that she has no feelings for you but does for him? The only reason you found out is by reading their messages.

The quickest and best way to get your wife back (if that is what you want) is by telling the OBS. That will almost always make the OM throw your wife under the bus to save his marriage. You think your wife won't forgive you for this, but once she's thrown under the bus by the other man, she will be the one to want to save the marriage. And if she's not? Well then she really didn't love you as much as you loved her and you can both move on to happier lives and find true love.

I'm sorry you've been going through this. I do hate to see your wife "telling you the truth" while pulling the wool over your eyes.

posts: 235   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2022
id 8784703
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 7:46 PM on Wednesday, March 29th, 2023

"Did she happen to mention to YOU that she has no feelings for you but does for him? The only reason you found out is by reading their messages."

Yes she did. She has given hints of this for years. But I didn't read them. She told me once and for all, and then 12 days later confirmed that she has feelings for him. Sorry thought I made that clear earlier. She hasn't lied. She was muddled about her thoughts for him in those 12 days. The messages I read were not incriminating. It was only after she told me about her feelings for him that she asked about his feelings. All of this has been discussed with me, including before she was with him.

I know this is all so unorthodox which is what makes it so stupid. Now after starting posting here I've realised I can't go on like this, I've asked her to stop and she has. Can't guarantee we can save our relationship but our honesty (with each other!) is intact which as I said earlier puts us in a better position than many I would think.

I know everyone has the lingering annoyance about the other wife. I get it. I feel like I'm in Squid Game where I'm in a game I hate the rules of and its kill or get killed. If i said something, it blows up their marriage, he is then available and much more appealing to my wife. My kids lives are then officially blown up. I need to give us a chance with him out of the picture. 😢

posts: 168   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8784707
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Greto ( member #80904) posted at 8:01 PM on Wednesday, March 29th, 2023

If i said something, it blows up their marriage, he is then available and much more appealing to my wife. My kids lives are then officially blown up. I need to give us a chance with him out of the picture

Then she isn't choosing you, only choosing you for now because she can't have both and he won't leave his wife. This is still the pick me dance.

I hope it all works out with you two, and I think counseling would be beneficial. I will say, I envy the honesty you both have in your marriage.

posts: 114   ·   registered: Sep. 9th, 2022   ·   location: Sandusky, Ohio
id 8784713
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straightup ( member #78778) posted at 8:41 PM on Wednesday, March 29th, 2023

Has she promised to go permanent no contact with the other married cheat?

What is her plan in the event that either breaks no contact?

The usual thing is to promise that if he so much as sends her a text, to tell you immediately before responding in any way.

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 342   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8784726
Topic is Sleeping.
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