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I discovered that my wh was still watching porn (or started to watch it again) after it was a hard stop after the first A. In therapy we discussed it and found that it was a borderline addiction and caused him to have unrealistic expectations about sex, about me, about frequency of sex etc. So it was a no go following the first A unless it was something i was wanting to try together (I never did). So my question is how do you handle it in the future. I know it’s extremely common to watch. I know many couples enjoy it together but I’m completely and totally not ok with it. Maybe one day when I have a safe relationship but not now. Even those click bait ads that have "provocative " photos of this celebrity or whatever. Wh used private mode for porn but he still looked at plenty of borderline things on the regular browser. The reason I thought he was looking at porn was several of the ASMR videos he watched were clearly geared towards porn watchers with titles like "exotic Latina has EXPLOSIVE back crack" and "instagram college girl..". Even that stuff is inappropriate to me. How don you navigate these things. I can’t imagine ever being comfortable with it. I can’t hardly look at myself knowing that’s the shit I was unknowingly competing with while I though we were trying to R.

I suppose it’s like any other requirement a BS makes: you have to decide what you will and will not tolerate.

If porn is unacceptable to you and he does not want to give it up, then you’re at an impasse and can’t proceed with healing the relationship. No one but you gets to decide what is tolerable in the new relationship you’re trying to build.

Porn is insidious. It's certainly addictive. It stands between a husband and wife's sexual relationship, and that's destructive to the marriage.

Your husband is clearly using porn if he's getting those types of ads. From your other posts it doesn't sound like he's ever fully owned up to or perhaps not even stopped the sexting with other women, either.

This doesn't seem like real reconciliation, where your husband is focused on you and on healing your marriage. I don't have any magic advice because real reconciliation has to come from the WS truly wanting to change and being willing to do the work. That is rare, as is real reconciliation. Usually couples either split or one spouse just accepts the poor treatment of the other. So it's really a matter of what you will accept from him and what is a deal breaker for you. Are you and/or he in therapy?

[This message edited by morningglory at 1:36 PM, Wednesday, July 20th]

I don’t think Elle was asking how to deal with porn in relationship to her WH. That ship has sailed. She’s asking about future relationships.

I wish I had some advice about that, Elle. I don’t but just wanted to clarify so you didn’t get more replies about your current situation.

To prevent porn-use then I think a good talk is in order.
What made me stop looking for porn was a serious think I had quite some years ago. Basically it was built on some life-experiences. I do realize they are gender based…
1)As a cop I interacted a lot with the "working girls" and I don’t believe in this whole "Happy Hooker" concept. I don’t really think that there are any significant number of sex-workers that will happily say this is their ideal choice or dream career path. Might be all sorts of justifications, but the former porn-stat that’s glad for her professional career-choice are maybe one in a thousand (at best). These girls were dealing with all sorts of issues, ranging from addiction, abuse, trafficking…
2)As a dad I think that all these girls are someones daughter. My daughters – and even my sons! – could have had a nice income offering blow-jobs and what nots to some middle aged men like me during college. Yet I don’t wish that career on them in any way or form. If it’s not good enough for my kids, why should I want other peoples kids placed in this situation?
3)Yes – I realize I’m talking about prostitution versus porn, but what’s the difference? Place a camera in the room and it’s legal? Don’t get that…

Did I enjoy porn? Well… yes… probably. Like people tend to enjoy things that are banned or taboo or not the norm. Yet when I placed that enjoyment on my moral-scales and thought of the misery someone endures for my pleasure… it was easy to decide to avoid it.
It then becomes an issue of character. If I think the people in porn are probably abused, if it is outside my moral scope… then I don’t use it. It’s like I wouldn’t steal a wallet I might find in a park, but rather try to find the owner. It’s not that I don’t want to be rich, but rather it matters how I reach that goal.

The ads?
I get them despite no porn. I THINK the logic behind the ads might be that if I go google some fishing rods, then some tools and then how to change the ball-joint in a Ford F150 the advertisement logic figures out I’m a middle aged male, and therefore likely to be tempted by a tight young Asian with an explosive back crack…

I don’t think Elle was asking how to deal with porn in relationship to her WH. That ship has sailed. She’s asking about future relationships.

I wish I had some advice about that, Elle. I don’t but just wanted to clarify so you didn’t get more replies about your current situation.

I didn't want to chime in until I saw this, because I know my views on porn are very different than those of a lot of people here.

But in future relationships? Elle, you can have whatever boundaries for new partners that work for you, but this will severely limit your dating pool. I've read a joke that 95% of men admit to masturbating to porn on a survey and the other 5% are liars.

With a partner who is not an addict, I would encourage you to consider the perspective that you are not competing against anything or anyone. Porn can just be a relaxing way to enjoy some self pleasure and get a bit more into the mood than one would without any visual aids.

I'm a woman but I enjoy masturbating to porn, either with a partner or by myself. I don't ever compare my partners to porn because why would I? I love them and am attracted to them for who they are. Porn is just something sexy to watch when I want some self love time.

I'm overweight and getting older, but I don't worry that my partners are comparing me to the porn stars, either. Variety is the spice of life, after all.

Personally, I always find it to be a red flag when someone wants to place limits on what a partner can do by themselves with their own body. Masturbation is healthy, as long as it's not taken to extremes/impacting a relationship's sex life, and I think that it's not reasonable to ask for that kind of control over a partner.

To me? The key is choosing a partner who has a healthy relationship to sex and porn, so you don't have to worry about these kind of issues. So many issues are just solved by good boundaries.

I know that most of the time, people who try to set limits like this are doing it because they have had partners damage them in the past. I would respectfully suggest that it's important to heal ourselves and not expect new partners to modify their behaviour to deal with our damage. They were not the ones who hurt us and shouldn't be treated like they were.

[This message edited by PSTI at 11:41 AM, July 20th (Wednesday)]

Bigger- I think you'll find that online sex workers are an entirely different pool than sex workers you'd run into on the streets.

Many people do online sex work because it's a great way to make money and it's very safe. I suspect the job satisfaction in people who do cam work, make porn, OnlyFans, etc is quite high.

My WH was heavily into porn for years. I had a suspicion that he was watching porn during his late-night computer sessions rather than reading Twitter and playing games as he said. I firmly believe that his porn and sex chat habits contributed to his choice to have his A. He developed an unrealistic view of sex and became entrenched in the fantasy world that porn creates. When the AP came along, a very damaged, needy person with shaky morals and low self-esteem, he latched on and they proceeded to use each other to get what they wanted.

In attempting to R, I drew a hard boundary regarding porn and online chat. It's not OK. It contributed to the mindset that led to the A. His IC has said the exact same thing. If he wants to truly change his mindset and behavior going forward, every bit of that behavior needs to stop. He's been working with his IC on replacing his thoughts and urges with more positive and productive activities. They're also talking about "choice theory" and how to train your brain to consistently make better choices. I am hopeful that he can turn it around, but I'm currently in watch-and-wait mode.

In terms of your future relationships, you don't have to accept porn as a normal thing. You have every right to set a hard boundary and stick to it. Porn doesn't have to be something you make yourself feel comfortable about. I've been working with my IC on setting boundaries and deciding what I will and will not accept from other people. If something really goes against your values, you can say, "No, that's not OK with me." I know that porn is very common, in fact it's too common and too accessible on the internet. But it doesn't mean we have to accept it in our lives if we are truly against it.

Personally, I agree with PSTI, but I also agree that you can set whatever boundaries and standards you wish to set.

I am a woman but I too watch porn. I personally would not accept a future relationship partner telling me I’m "not allowed" to watch porn or to masturbate to it, but then I would simply think that person and I are not a match. They would have every right to feel that I am not a match for them, either, and to find someone who is.

Personally, I always find it to be a red flag when someone wants to place limits on what a partner can do by themselves with their own body. Masturbation is healthy, as long as it's not taken to extremes/impacting a relationship's sex life

But that last qualifier is exactly what happened to Elle.

I think most people are able to enjoy a glass or two of wine without becoming addicted, but that doesn't mean that alcoholism isn't real. Yes, it will limit your dating options if you say that it's a deal breaker for a partner to use alcohol in any quantity or circumstance. But there are people who can't handle alcohol, and there are people who have established an abstinence boundary for their own mental health and security, and that's ok as long as they're up front about it.

I don't have any issues with porn myself, but I applaud Elle for making the call she feels is right for her. I think it's better to live solo by her own values and boundaries than to compromise them and live in stress for the sake of finding a relationship.

Masturbation is one thing. Doing it while watching porn is another.

Tell them it's a boundary for you. That they can watch all the porn they want. But not as your partner. If they break the boundary, after they agreed, then it's up to you how to handle that. Personally, they lied,and didn't care how it made you feel,and I would dump them.

Porn is a NO in my marriage. I was ok with it,even watched it with my husband. I got real tired of looking up at the screen,and seeing he just moved me into the same position as the woman in the movie,while he was staring at her. It was clear Iwas nothing more than a masturbatory tool. No thanks. After dday,I was done. All of his sexual energy is either focused solely on me,or he can masturbate using his imagination. If he wants to watch porn,that tells me he values images on a screen,more than he values me. After disrespecting me so thoroughly by having an affair,I will never allow myself to be disrespected again. I would divorce him over it. He's aware of this,and has agreed. Trust that I check occasionally, and so far,I believe he's stuck to that agreement.

Elle, no one has the right to tell you what you should be ok with. Not anyone here,not society, and not another man. If it's a NO for you,that's perfectly OK.

I'm in agreement with Bigger. I think it's a disingenuous claim that "sex workers" are mostly happy with their career choice. There's a certain segment of our society which is content to assuage their conscience with the idea that having a strange dick put into your mouth and/or random other orifices is an exciting and lucrative career choice. And no doubt, there's a certain segment of the "sex worker" populace that's very vocal in defending a demeaning and salacious payday. But IMHO, it's a rewriting of the narrative which suits a multi-billion-dollar industry and is damaging to human beings and to human relationships. The porn industry would have us believe that it's something of a victimless crime, but that's NOT what we see in practice. What we see in practice is broken homes and broken people.

I honestly do believe that porn was the "gateway drug" to my fWH's adultery. It seeks to normalize unhealthy dysfunctional behavior and sometimes even outright perversion. My fWH wasn't in a good head space. He was already mentally unhealthy. Next thing, he's got it into his head that this is normal, that it's how other people actually live, and it gives him impetus to cross a line that he had previously known was wrong.

All that said, you don't have to defend your choice to not allow pornography into your life, Elle. It's enough that you say you don't want it. You're not going to win that argument with people who defend porn as moral and healthy, but you don't need to. YOU get to say what's tolerable and what is not in your life going forward, and maybe that's the one silver lining in what's happened to you... that you are now free to redesign the life you want just the way you want it. It's enough that you say 'no'. It's all about boundaries, and what many of us have discovered as a result of being victimized by intimate betrayal is that our boundaries weren't always strong and reflective of what we really wanted. That changes NOW as you redesign your better life.

((big hugs))

You can set whatever boundary you want. Similar to another thread where I thought someone was setting a very limiting boundary, you should know two things.

1) Your husband won't stop looking at porn.

2) Your chances of finding a man that genuinely doesn't watch porn are very low. Your chances of finding a man that lies about it are nice and high. I actually think screening on "do you watch porn?" and the answer is "no" will just find you picking liars.

My 0.02. Crucify me as a porn defender. Videogames don't make me violent. Porn doesn't make me cheat. I have a healthy sense in the difference between fantasy and reality.

This is a great question! I think I saw some statistic saying 98% of men had looked at porn in the last six months. Hopefully some men will come along and share why porn is so ubiquitous among men.

I personally find visual porn a huge turn-off, but being married to a man for almost 3 decades and having parented several sons to adulthood I have come to realize there is nothing I can do to completely eliminate porn usage from their lives. They are going to look at porn.

What I have done is talk about it with them. When I come across studies or articles about porn usage I share them. I talk to them about respecting women, about how I personally feel about porn and how it can affect how women feel about themselves. We discuss whether or not porn use is cheating.

With my husband I have started asking more detailed questions. Do you like to look at closeups of breasts and vaginas or the whole body in a sexy pose? When do you look at porn? What is going through your head? Do you compare me?

When boys are growing up porn satisfies their curiosity about what women’s bodies look like. Eventually porn becomes a pleasurable distraction. The same way I flip to a news site and scan headlines when I need a break, my husband might spend a few minutes looking at porn. According to my husband, he likes that in pornland everyone is comfortable with their sexuality, everyone enjoys sex.

Like any other distraction, porn becomes a problem when it takes away from real life and real relationships. It’s a problem when people compare their partner or expect their partner to act differently. It’s a problem when people spend time looking at porn that should be spent on work or family. It’s a problem when people would rather look at porn than be intimate with their partner.

Fortunately for me, my husband’s porn use stayed in the occasional pleasurable distraction category and never took away from his time with me. He never spent any money on porn and never signed up for anything porn related. He also says he never compared me. Any unreasonable expectations he had for me came from non-porn societal expectations.

I wonder if rigid rules and restrictions about sex from religious upbringings leads to shame which leads to looking at porn compulsively?

I’m sorry for my rambling post.

In short,

Communicate, communicate, communicate!

Avoid shaming.

[This message edited by icytoes at 10:34 AM, Saturday, August 20th]

But that last qualifier is exactly what happened to Elle.

I think most people are able to enjoy a glass or two of wine without becoming addicted, but that doesn't mean that alcoholism isn't real. Yes, it will limit your dating options if you say that it's a deal breaker for a partner to use alcohol in any quantity or circumstance. But there are people who can't handle alcohol, and there are people who have established an abstinence boundary for their own mental health and security, and that's ok as long as they're up front about it.

I don't have any issues with porn myself, but I applaud Elle for making the call she feels is right for her. I think it's better to live solo by her own values and boundaries than to compromise them and live in stress for the sake of finding a relationship.

BSR- yes, I understand that is what happened to Elle. But that doesn't mean that every person who enjoys porn will have those issues.

To use your metaphor, I would choose not to date alcoholics and not assume that everyone who enjoys alcohol will become an alcoholic.

I also agree that Elle can make whatever boundaries that she wishes; I just believe in this case she's far more likely to end up with someone who will feel ashamed of his porn use and lie about it. That's not really a better situation.

But either way- dating pool or dating puddle- everyone can choose what they want to set as a boundary for themselves. I would just be very, very up front about this one so that anyone who dates Elle knows from the get-go that it's a hard limit for her before they get emotionally attached. If a person has very specific dealbreakers, it's only ethical to let people know as early as possible.

The generic answer is that men are statistically more visually aroused. Same reasoning goes that women are statistically more emotionally aroused and are more into paperback romances.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:34 PM, Wednesday, July 20th]

Paperback romances? Seriously? How many drug addicts fund their habit in the paperback romance industry???

I think there's this fallacy that ALL men look at porn, and certainly, I can believe that most have seen it. That doesn't mean it's a habit for all of them the way it's a habit for some of them.

I don't think ALL men look at porn. Probably something like 90+% (assumed, pulled from my butt). I think that 25% are liars/cheaters (approx. based on what I have read on infidelity). If we use 90%, that makes a man that says he doesn't watch porn 70% chance a liar and 30% chance doesn't watch porn. Still worse than 2-1 odds, and you are making a filter counter to honesty.

I wasn't suggesting the "harms of the paperback industry" were similar to the "harms of the porn industry". I was stating that men find porn more arousing than women (generally) and that women find paperback romances more arousing than men (generally).

Not to t/j, but I don't think you're the only one who might believe that all or even most men are porn users or that romance novels are some sort of porn equivalent, T0i0F. I meant that as more of a general statement, so I'm sorry if it appeared to point you out.

My xWS was also addicted to porn and the sex felt like it too no connection whatsoever. My current boyfriend does not watch porn (or if he does it doesn't color our sex life) and our sex life is far more passionate and the emotional connection is very strong. Just in my personal experience with it I'm seeing a huge difference. I'm not sure I could EVER tolerate it the way I did with my ex. It's like the porn shaped WHO HE WAS and his life revolved around it. I hated the sex I had with my ex. It eventually drove me to repulsion.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 12:23 AM, Thursday, July 21st]