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Trust your gut. Back again

Topic is Sleeping.
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Summertime22 ( member #79796) posted at 6:05 PM on Wednesday, April 13th, 2022

I am so sorry you are going through this. Sending hugs.
His actions are so cruel and cold, thinking of himself only- about money and feathering his own nest! And to have the audacity to say those cruel words. I agree that he may be trying to control you, put you down so he can control. Maybe get some financial advice and don’t make any financial agreements directly with him. It sounds like he only cares about himself and is ruthless.

Sending you healing and prayers.

posts: 179   ·   registered: Jan. 16th, 2022   ·   location: UK
id 8729580
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 Elle2 (original poster member #64338) posted at 7:29 PM on Wednesday, April 13th, 2022

I'm struggling today. I need answers. But I don't want to ask the questions. It's like he enjoys me asking just so he can laugh about it and say it doesn't matter or minimize it. I asked here he was moving to. To which he responded, "you'll know soon enough" and I informed him that until I knew where and it was somewhere nminwas comfortable with, he wouldn't be taking the kids. He just laughed and said "you hate not being able to control me anymore. It's killing you".
I feel like such an idiot. I finally started to be ok with him doing things. Yes, you can go there with your friend etc. And as soon as I do it again he fucks it all up again. I've had a feeling for a while. His anger over the last few months especially has been a big red flag. Huge.
I just feel like going through with a divorce with no answers will be miserable. I need closure. I have a feeling I won't get it this time. I didn't really get it last time I suppose. We are meeting for our daughters bday dinner tonight and I plan on getting a little cleaned up to remind him what he threw away.

Me: BW. WH had an EA for over a year with cow. Sexting anytime he wanted (his words).DDay June 25 2018DDay2 EA 4/9/2022. I’d had a hunch for a few weeks. Kicked him out and he found a new friend which was the start of EA3.
DDay2: 4/9/2022. I had been

posts: 357   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2018
id 8729607
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WorldTraveler23 ( member #36528) posted at 8:54 PM on Wednesday, April 13th, 2022

You don’t need answers. You want answers. But I suspect that even more, you want to be the mother and woman you would be proud of. So keep at your studies, take care of your children, and push him out of your mind. You have to make a conscious choice to let go of it. Every time you start to think "what if…" or "why did…" I want you to picture yourself as a precious child, or one of your lovely children, and get on with making a kick-ass life for yourself. He doesn’t matter.

posts: 141   ·   registered: Aug. 17th, 2012
id 8729633
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 8:58 PM on Wednesday, April 13th, 2022

It's like he enjoys me asking just so he can laugh about it and say it doesn't matter or minimize it.


I'd say that, yeah.. he does enjoy it. Cheaters like kibbles. Continuing to be central in your mind and in your thoughts is a good source of kibbles. It means he's important. It means you just can't get over him. Not every cheater is a card-carrying NPD, but the act of cheating and the mental gymnastics which support it are narcissistic behaviors. Whether he's diagnosed or not, there are common characteristics, and his enjoyment of your distress would be one of them.

The obsession you're feeling about needing to know the details is ubiquitous. I think pretty much all of us go through it. In your case, the events are still so fresh too. It's not like some of our situations where we're still ruminating months and even years later. I do wonder though if underneath it all, you're hoping that there was some reasonable explanation and if you could just get him talking, all would be revealed and you could go back to the status quo? Do you think something like that might be connected to your need to know?

Taken4Granted had a similar story, as she said. What you'll note in her post though is that once she moved the focus from her cheating ex to making her life better, things fell into place. It's still early for you. This new dday just happened. But I think pushing that focus toward a future for you and the kids, one that YOU design, can help alleviate your need to get more information. It doesn't matter what he says. He's not going to be a factor in your life after this. He'll be like an unpleasant coworker in that he'll still be on the periphery several days a week until the kids are grown. You'll be civil but he won't MATTER to you anymore.

For right now, it's just going to be tough going for awhile. If you can see your way clear to NOT providing kibbles to him though, I think you're going to thank yourself later.

((hugs))

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 6176   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8729634
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 10:55 PM on Wednesday, April 13th, 2022

Sorry you are going through this Elle.

He is a liar. So, you can safely assume he is lying to everyone and he's also lying to you about what everyone says to him.

180/grey rock his ass.

Sending strength.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2174   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8729650
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 Elle2 (original poster member #64338) posted at 5:17 AM on Thursday, April 14th, 2022

I suppose I do hope there's an explanation? I know there's not those. As a rational woman I know that even if nothing physical happened, he was being deceitful. He was lying about spending time with a woman. He was going out of his way tonse her. Alone. They could have been playing uno and reading the bible. It's a moot point. We had a well defined line after the first affair and this went well beyond that. I think for me it's about knowing the facts. We have a son that will grow up without ever knowing his mother AND father being there when he wakes up. That absolutely shatters me. And for my part I want to do my due diligence. Yes. I know he's fucked. But I would like to put a check next to it rather than a question mark. If that makes sense. And damn it. I want him to explain himself. Something. I don't know. Maybe I just need to argue with him to get this anger out? ANYTHING. it hurts that someone I gave the best years of my life to (at least by appearance standards) could do this and just laugh without somuch as an explanation. He claims it was innocent. Then at least TRY to convince me. Does any of this make sense? I forgot how hard the nights are. Laying in bed alone. Imagining he's with her. Probably happy and carefree bc he knows his kids are safe with their mom. I'm the one doing all the work. I can't imagine being able to walk away from my family like that. Over an innocent friends.its just ridiculous. "Sorry kids. Mom didn't like dad's friend so we got divorced". barf

Me: BW. WH had an EA for over a year with cow. Sexting anytime he wanted (his words).DDay June 25 2018DDay2 EA 4/9/2022. I’d had a hunch for a few weeks. Kicked him out and he found a new friend which was the start of EA3.
DDay2: 4/9/2022. I had been

posts: 357   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2018
id 8729698
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BigMammaJamma ( member #65954) posted at 2:00 PM on Thursday, April 14th, 2022

Hi Super-

It sounds like your mother in law is an enabler. She wants to spare him from the consequences from his actions. She IS part of the reason he is the way he is. Unfortunately, she is not a voting member and her opinion means jack shit. I would encourage you to spend NO emotional labor on what this lady thinks. Her track record makes her opinion invalid.

How did your dad respond to her? I really hope he told her to shove it up her ass.

Me- born in 1984
Him- born in 1979
We both have 3 kids from previous marriages and we share a four year old. I might be a BS, but at this point, I don't know if I'll ever know.

Update: As of 5/8/2020, my WH confirmed I belong in this club

posts: 254   ·   registered: Aug. 23rd, 2018   ·   location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
id 8729719
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 4:17 PM on Thursday, April 14th, 2022

I want him to explain himself. Something. I don't know. Maybe I just need to argue with him to get this anger out? ANYTHING. it hurts that someone I gave the best years of my life to (at least by appearance standards) could do this and just laugh without somuch as an explanation. He claims it was innocent. Then at least TRY to convince me. Does any of this make sense?


Of course it does.. because you're NORMAL. You're not someone who's able to cheat, lie, and obfuscate. Anyone in your position would want to know. Problem is, we can't MAKE him say. I think your best course on that is to take a hard line and say, "I've got nothing to talk to you about until/unless you give an HONEST accounting of what happened." Honesty has to be the bare minimum ante for interacting with you at this point. The temptation to go after him for that explanation, I think, will only result in more of the same. More centrality for him and more mouthing off as his importance is confirmed. I think your better bet is to speak your peace and then tell him to go fuck himself until he can be HONEST with you. Sorry to be blunt, but yeah.. I don't think I'd be nice about it. Just bills and kids until he pulls his head out, and if he never does, at least you know you gave him the chance.

((hugs))

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 6176   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8729737
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:28 PM on Thursday, April 14th, 2022

Sorry kids. Mom didn't like dad's friend so we got divorced

Reframe this.

If he says this,the kids will hear..

Sorry kids, we got divorced because my friendship with another woman was more important than my marriage and my family.

Men don't leave their loving,faithful wives, for an innocent friendship with a woman.

posts: 4859   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8729738
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Edie ( member #26133) posted at 4:36 PM on Thursday, April 14th, 2022

Hmmmm, it’s so very clear from the outside how much better things will be for you without this abusive petty man child sucking up your focus, energy & self respect, but I understand it’s early days and you are still trying to reconcile the idea of the man you thought and hoped he was versus the man he is. The brain is getting caught up in the puzzle and I understand that cognitive compulsion & dissonance, but I really do urge you to focus back on you and start to build yourself up. That will take some practice as he has obviously been quite insidiously undermining you for some time, even to the point where he has maybe succeeded in isolating you a little. His family are not your support system, but you have both irl support and massive support here on SI, so please don’t feel alone or defeated by his tactics. Do however learn from them and try to anticipate them to some degree, he seems to work with the element of surprise so be prepared for that. Legal advice is a must… which could be from pro bono sources (like citizens advice or womens aid) in the first instance who can advise how you can appoint a lawyer that suits you and your circumstances, and what kind of state financial support is available. Try not to let worry overtake you, it will paralyse you. You’re doing a masters so summon up all the grit, determination and creativity that’s helped you along the way. You can do this.

Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 kids 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) R'd.

posts: 6398   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2009   ·   location: Europe
id 8729740
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taken4granted ( member #61971) posted at 7:35 PM on Thursday, April 14th, 2022

I know you want answers but what kind of answer would make all that he’s doing and saying ok? I can’t think of anything he could say at this point that wouldn’t just be lip service. You know that when his lips are moving, it’s going to be a lie.

I understand wanting to make sure you did all you could to make the marriage work. Right now, your marriage is like a car with two flat tires. You’re doing all the work and driving in circles.

The best chance you have for peace and closure is to take control of your future. Hire a lawyer and file. I’m sure your ws doesn’t believe you have the guts to leave him. He believes he’s a prize, but it sounds like he’s a child. He’s going to be in for a rude awakening when the courts get involved and he doesn’t get to make the rules anymore.

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain
Me: Living life! Him: Not my problem anymore
Married 15 yrs.
1 LTA, Many EAs from 2009 - ?
Dday 1 = 6/16/17
Last Dday = 1/4/18
Started loving myself 2018!

posts: 383   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2017   ·   location: OH
id 8729772
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 7:56 PM on Thursday, April 14th, 2022

"Sorry kids. Mom didn't like dad's friend so we got divorced"

This is very flawed thinking Elle, what you mean to say is Dad doesn't understand what it means to be a good partner, and he chose to leave.

Let him spread his BS, the more he does the more people will see through it.

In the meantime stop engaging him. He left. He chose it. He chose it with his actions, regardless of what he says. His actions are what matters.

Have you found an attorney yet? Please see a few and if you can't afford it, well then ask for help from your parents, or apply for a loan. You have to protect yourself and your kids. And you need to do it sooner than later, especially since he has left. I could see an abuser like him say well I'm not paying for them, since I'm not living with them or some other nonsense.

Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 22 & 25
Married for 30 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 19611   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8729775
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 Elle2 (original poster member #64338) posted at 8:10 PM on Thursday, April 14th, 2022

You guys are right. I know. I am trying to come to terms with the fact that he is not the person I knew. Someone that could do something like this. I guess I just want honesty. I know not to expect it. He's done a great job of making me feel crazy and overreacting. I told him today I have questions because I want to make certain that I'm making the right decision. He said "of course you are. With the way you say I treat you why would you want anything to do with me. To which I replied that at the end of the day I planned on sticking around until the kids were older. His response? "Please". As in "give me a break".
He said he tried to make it work. I asked how when he ran off every chance he got. Now he's saying she has a boyfriend to further prove this was all innocent. I asked what he name was. He wouldn't tell me so I could "continue to think he's lying". It's painful to see someone not give a shit SO MUCH. Because at the end of the day it's not just me that he's doing this to. It's his kids too. One day they will know what happened.
My stepdaughter knows the truth. She's pissed and disappointed. I know I'll get through it. With or without the answers I'm looking for.

Me: BW. WH had an EA for over a year with cow. Sexting anytime he wanted (his words).DDay June 25 2018DDay2 EA 4/9/2022. I’d had a hunch for a few weeks. Kicked him out and he found a new friend which was the start of EA3.
DDay2: 4/9/2022. I had been

posts: 357   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2018
id 8729779
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 9:02 PM on Thursday, April 14th, 2022

It's always so weird when a WS,who has already been caught cheating in the past,says the AP has a SO/BS. As if that's some kind of proof that they aren't having an affair.

Ummmm...buddy? YOU have a wife. That didnt stop YOU from cheating, so why would it matter if this AP has a boyfriend?

duh

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:03 PM, Thursday, April 14th]

posts: 4859   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8729790
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 Elle2 (original poster member #64338) posted at 12:31 AM on Friday, April 15th, 2022

Exactly hellfire. He tried to spin it to where he was friends with both of them "he's a great guy" I believe bwere his words. I said well then why not tell me. New friends. Yay! But clearly that's not the point of it.

Me: BW. WH had an EA for over a year with cow. Sexting anytime he wanted (his words).DDay June 25 2018DDay2 EA 4/9/2022. I’d had a hunch for a few weeks. Kicked him out and he found a new friend which was the start of EA3.
DDay2: 4/9/2022. I had been

posts: 357   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2018
id 8729819
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BreakingBad ( member #75779) posted at 1:11 PM on Friday, April 15th, 2022

It's like he enjoys me asking just so he can laugh about it and say it doesn't matter or minimize it.


He said "of course you are. With the way you say I treat you why would you want anything to do with me."


I asked what he name was. He wouldn't tell me so I could "continue to think he's lying".


It's a slippery, consistently passive aggressive way to make you take action, so he can make you the "bad guy."

If he seems to take glee and enjoy the power he gets from you asking questions and him providing vague, sarcastic, passive-aggressive answers, grey rock.

He's not changing his behavior and seems to not plan to change it.
So, let him do him and you do just you and the kids.

Strength and peace to you dear lady!!

"Don't you love it, don't you love it?No, I ain't happy yet.But I'm way less sad."[Credit to group AJR]

Me=BW; fWH=online affairs with 3 APs over 2.5-3 yrsBoth in IC & MCMarried 31 yrs now2 kids-both in HSAttempting R

posts: 291   ·   registered: Oct. 31st, 2020
id 8729881
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Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 1:49 PM on Friday, April 15th, 2022

What an emotionally sadistic f*ck. At this point, assume everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie.

I too will emphasize 180 and gray rocking as it gives him less opportunities to insult you or gaslight you. This power game he's got going on can only be won if you don't play.

posts: 432   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8729887
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 2:26 PM on Friday, April 15th, 2022

Elle, help him pack and let him leave. Let go of him. He is getting great joy out of harming you emotionally. What you might not realize is that this stress is harming you physically. Read LYING by Jonathan Wallace in the Ethical Spectacle.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3607   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8729896
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 Elle2 (original poster member #64338) posted at 6:04 PM on Friday, April 15th, 2022

So he calls me this morning to see if we could all meet for dinner since he wouldnt be seeing the kids tomorrow. I told him I wasn't sure. "Why not" he asks. Ummmmmm do you want the obvious answer? The , of court he flips it "I guess you don't want to be cordial anymore." I literally cannot do anything right. He will find a way to flip every single thing I say. I told him it's uncomfortable and then he starts saying it's for the kids it's for the kids it has nothing to do with you. How do people honestly live like he does where he just wants to mind fuck people all day long.

Me: BW. WH had an EA for over a year with cow. Sexting anytime he wanted (his words).DDay June 25 2018DDay2 EA 4/9/2022. I’d had a hunch for a few weeks. Kicked him out and he found a new friend which was the start of EA3.
DDay2: 4/9/2022. I had been

posts: 357   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2018
id 8729980
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taken4granted ( member #61971) posted at 9:32 PM on Friday, April 15th, 2022

Wow just wow! The nerve of your cheater!?!?

I believe it’s time to set some boundaries. If he wants to have dinner with the kids, that’s fine. But you don’t need to be there. If he asks why you can’t be cordial, you can tell him you don’t have time to be nice to people that go out of their way to hurt their kids. I mean let’s face it, his cheating isn’t going to hurt just you. He didn’t care if he hurt his kids too. He took time and resources from his kids to get his happy feelings from someone else. You owe him nothing. If nothing more, you can tell him you don’t want to confuse anyone or make it awkward since you proceeding with divorce. He will unleash all kinds of crap at you, but the best way to play the game is walk away.

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain
Me: Living life! Him: Not my problem anymore
Married 15 yrs.
1 LTA, Many EAs from 2009 - ?
Dday 1 = 6/16/17
Last Dday = 1/4/18
Started loving myself 2018!

posts: 383   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2017   ·   location: OH
id 8730009
Topic is Sleeping.
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