SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The topic title is merely tangentially associated with the content of this post.

So, an update:

1. I spoke to my attorney on Thursday last week and she gave me the run-down of what the custody evaluator said to justify recommending that STBXW have 75% physical custody of the kids (note: she also recommended joint legal custody). In hindsight, it was very odd because (according to my attorney), the evaluator had mostly good things to say about me and mostly bad things to say about STBXW.

- I was given points for being a safe-place for DD14, who is struggling with her self-confidence.

- I was given points for trying to do things one-on-one with the kids.

- The evaluator could not conclude anything about the he-said/she-said domestic abuse allegations, but concluded that even if they were true... that they were "situational" and highly unlikely to ever occur again. STBXW certainly has demonstrated that she is unafraid of me.

- STBXW was criticized for concluding that my mental health problems were long-term and incurable. The evaluator recommended that she go to therapy to deal with her hurt related to the end of her marriage.

- I was given points for working on my issues with my therapist and with my psychiatrist. The evaluator specifically concluded that I was no longer "required" to continue therapy and that I could stop at my discretion. That is, I have conclusively demonstrated that I am self-aware regarding my mental health and that I will seek treatment, if needed, on my own.

- My marijuana use was not a factor or a concern in any way.

- The kids were not "coached" by STBXW. This was concluded because they all had different answers to the same questions (i.e., coached kids give the same answers).

- My claims that STBXW was practicing parental alienation were unfounded. The evaluator concluded that DD13 is an opinionated, type-A personality; her statements regarding discipline and other specific issues were her own, not STBXW's. (I disagree with this conclusion).

- STBXW has made numerous "poor parenting decisions" but the expectation by the evaluator is these will stop once she gets into therapy and gets over her hurt.

- The children, in general, expressed a preference for being with their mother, which was the primary basis for the custody decision.

To me, this does not seem like an honest list from my attorney. I suspect that she was withholding criticisms of me. I meet with her next Friday, so maybe I'll get more details then.

My other thought is that if my lawyer is being honest and the primary basis for custody was the kids' preference, then there is a good chance their preference will change in the next few years.

2. I have decided to "mess" with STBXW as much as I can. The kids wanted to give her a gift for Christmas and I bought it via an online shop. I had it shipped to GF's house. GF's name was placed on the box (we left it there) and then it was wrapped in paper that said "Ho Ho Ho" and GF placed a really nice bow around it. GF then wrote to "Mom" from "DD14, DD13, and DS7". STBXW hates the fact that I have a GF.

3. STBXW does not like being told that she does anything wrong. So, I sent her two messages citing two specific recent actions of hers that violated the custody agreement proposed by the evaluator. STBXW did not appreciate this... her response was "Thanks for the wise use of your time today"

4. I am sure that I have a battle ahead over alimony because STBXW basically wants everything in this divorce. The good news, though, is she has a math problem. I have a budget that mostly matches hers. When you take the child support out of my income, I cannot afford my budget. Ergo, I have a strong legal argument that I cannot afford any alimony. I can't wait to tell her that she will literally be receiving $400 a month less than my first settlement offer, made almost a year ago.

To me, this does not seem like an honest list from my attorney. I suspect that she was withholding criticisms of me. I meet with her next Friday, so maybe I'll get more details then.

I would agree--this list sounds like it would be recommending 50/50 vs. 75/25. It will be interesting to hear what your attorney has to say.

I have decided to "mess" with STBXW as much as I can.

I disagree with this. You are still in the middle of a contentious divorce--do you think pouring gasoline on the flames is prudent?

I have a budget that mostly matches hers. When you take the child support out of my income, I cannot afford my budget. Ergo, I have a strong legal argument that I cannot afford any alimony.

If she is legally entitled to alimony, she will get it whether or not you can "afford" it. What are the parameters and guidelines for alimony in your jurisdiction? In mine, it was primarily length of the marriage and marital conduct. I was awarded lifetime alimony.

I would be very careful here until things have been settled.

Cat

Keep your cards close to the vest until it's all signed, sealed and delivered. Just sayin'......

I understand your acrimony, but both ladies are correct. Do not add fuel to the fire until EVERYTHING is settled. None of this shit is fair, we've all been subjected to some form or another of the unfairness. I could tell 3 pages of stories.

And really, the best revenge is living a happier life without her. You won't even need to play those games, the mere fact that you are happier with someone else will make her angrier and angrier over time. Don't waste headspace on your X when it's not necessary.

2. I have decided to "mess" with STBXW as much as I can. The kids wanted to give her a gift for Christmas and I bought it via an online shop. I had it shipped to GF's house. GF's name was placed on the box (we left it there) and then it was wrapped in paper that said "Ho Ho Ho" and GF placed a really nice bow around it. GF then wrote to "Mom" from "DD14, DD13, and DS7". STBXW hates the fact that I have a GF.

Don't poke the bear. When you do, you're not grey rocking it, you're playing a role in the drama and acrimony that's affecting your children. You think 13 and 14yos aren't old enough/smart enough to get the "joke" that their mom's a ho?

And, if I'm understanding this correctly, you wrapped it in the brown box it came in with your GF's name and address on it, too? Was your STBXWW aware of GF's address before the gift?

[This message edited by ibonnie at 1:12 PM, December 24th (Tuesday)]

Better look into your local laws about alimony. I have a friend that had to pay alimony to his EX even though he could not afford it after paying his child support. The judge flat out told him to get another job to supplement his income. He lived on cheerios, bologna, and pasta for two years till he got a couple of raises. Best be prepared my friend.

Why the hell are you involving your kids (albeit indirectly) in this? It does not reflect well on you.

Please look after the children

You know - for an intelligent man, you sure propose (I'm hoping you're jesting with the antics with the girlfriend's name on the box) some really stupid stunts involving your ex and your children. The thing about this is you let her know she's relevant to you every time you "mess with her". Indifference would serve you a whole lot better and be a whole lot more classy. She doesn't deserve it but you and your children do.

I'd suggest if this stunt was for real done and delivered that way, you do some searching and work with your therapist to grow the hell up.

And if you are just joking around pulling our legs I'd say you've got the flaming coming to you anyway!

Peace. out.

If she is legally entitled to alimony, she will get it whether or not you can "afford" it. What are the parameters and guidelines for alimony in your jurisdiction?

There are about a dozen statutes in my state that guide a judge on awarding alimony.

One of the statutes on alimony requires that she has to establish that she has a financial need for alimony. This same statute requires that I have to be able to afford alimony.

Copying from a website (I do not live in Utah but my state is similar):

Quick alimony primer

Let’s begin with a quick explanation about how we calculate alimony.

First, we find the spouse who makes less money per month. We then see what that person makes after taxes are taken out (net income), and what his or her monthly expenses are (necessary monthly expenses).

When we have those numbers, we subtract the necessary monthly expenses from the net income and see if we have a positive number or a negative number. For example, if someone nets $3500 per month, and has $5000 in necessary monthly expenses per month, then the number is -$1500.

If you run in the negative, you have a need for alimony, and that negative number is usually what you request in alimony. So, the person above would ask for $1500 in alimony.

Second, we do the exact same calculation for spouse who makes more money per month.

So, say you make $7000 per month, and your necessary monthly expenses are $5000 per month. Your number is +$2000. This means you have an ability to pay $2000 per month toward alimony.

With that out of the way, let’s see how child support affects things.

How child support affects alimony for the person receiving child support

Child support affects alimony because it’s considered income; and, therefore, it increases the net monthly income of the person who receives it.

So, if we take person #1 from above and give her $700 per month in child support, then her net income would be $4200. Her necessary monthly expenditures would still be $5000, so her new number would be -$800.

She would request $800 per month in alimony — $700 less than before.

How child support affects alimony for the person paying child support

On the other side of the coin, child support paid increases a person’s necessary monthly expenses.

So, if we take person #2 above and make him pay $700 per month in child support, then his monthly expenses will go up from $5000 to $5700. This means his ability to pay alimony goes down to $1300 per month ($7000-$5700=$1300).

What does all this mean in the end?

In the end, child support usually affects alimony in two ways:

For the person receiving alimony, it decreases the need for alimony (read: you usually receive less alimony as you receive more child support).

For the person paying alimony, it decreases the ability to pay alimony (read: you usually pay less alimony as you pay more child support).

STBXW is claiming expenses of about $7,000 per month. I am claiming expenses of about $5,500 per month. After I pay her child support, I do not have $5,500 per month to cover my expenses. Ergo, I will not have to pay alimony.

[This message edited by barcher144 at 10:18 AM, December 25th (Wednesday)]

Joyeux Noël!

Foolish acts always have consequences.

I am curious if you are able to realize the following possibilities.

Is this the reason you have been "fired" directly or indirectly by your previous counsel/s?

Is this a contributing behavioral factor to an unsatisfactory custody evaluation?

Involving your new romantic interest in the drama would seem to be at the least an unwarranted risk. The new interests participation in this raises other questions that could easily be exploited by competent counsel.

The logic of this course of action is beyond questionable. If you wish to be perceived as someone worthy of respect, you should behave accordingly regardless of anyone else.

And really, the best revenge is living a happier life without her. You won't even need to play those games, the mere fact that you are happier with someone else will make her angrier and angrier over time.

Yep, the part that y'all missed in all of that is that I am actually killing her with kindness.

I went out and bought her a very nice Christmas present (that I cannot afford, tbh) that my kids picked out (a very personal gift too). I then had it wrapped very very well, with an expensive bow on it and everything.

STBXW does not like being told that she does anything wrong. So, I sent her two messages citing two specific recent actions of hers that violated the custody agreement proposed by the evaluator.

In other threads, the advice given is to document all of her mishaps. This is literally what I did here. I did the correct thing. I told her what she did (in plain, boring language) and then I quoted the part of the parenting agreement that she was violating. And I used our legally-sanctioned co-parenting software to do it.

The judge flat out told him to get another job to supplement his income.

Well, on the "good news" front, I already have a second job. Also, the judge has already ruled on my income and how it is to be computed. The temporary ruling in June was almost entirely in STBXW's favor, except that one little bit about my income.

Peace. out.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

[This message edited by barcher144 at 10:28 AM, December 25th (Wednesday)]

Yep, the part that y'all missed in all of that is that I am actually killing her with kindness.

Disagree. "Messing with her" is not "killing her with kindness." It's being a jerk.

You cited her for violations of something that, according to you, is not yet a custody agreement; it is a proposal by the custody evaluator.

Quoted:

So, I sent her two messages citing two specific recent actions of hers that violated the custody agreement proposed by the evaluator.

While what the evaluator may have proposed is likely rational and such, it is a proposal and she is not yet bound by it.

I hope you are correct about alimony calculations. It doesn't seem like much has gone the way you have proposed it would go, though. I'm sure it will be something you and your attorney will discuss.

Cat

PS: My ex swore to me it would be a cold day in hell before I saw one cent of alimony. I was awarded lifetime alimony. He neglected to read the statute and listen to his attorney. I was willing to settle for far less than he ended up being ordered to pay.

Barcher - how do you think these activities will impact the children? The M is over. The children now come from a broken home. How will you help heal the chasm that is going to be a part of their lives moving forward since they have to split their time between houses and parents?

My oldest children come from such an environment and my heart bleeds for your children right now.

barcher144, if I may offer a word of advice?

I was married for 20 yrs to a woman who was, quite frankly, a mess. We got divorced and after I found this site I see so many examples of how cheaters act that I don't doubt that she was, in fact, cheating. We got divorced for different reasons, though.

For 9 yrs I was involved with xWGF. Proof of cheating was irrefutable.

Here's my point:

xW was a mess and even though I told my attorney to be fair-with-a-hint-of-generous in my offer, my xW's life has spiraled down. Her self-diagnosing, self-prescribing, and self-medicating regimen has rendered her unable to live alone. Literally unable.

xWGF I haven't heard of (or from) since about 6 mos. after she left. I saw her in a restaurant with AP (his also-AP wife wasn't around) and both of them hung their heads as I stood there with a wry grin on my face, clearly seeing them.

Both xW and xWGF have descended in life's ladder while my life has improved measurably. Keeping your stbxww in your mind gives her far more head-space and influence in your thoughts than she deserves. Truly, this is a fact.

Also, you're giving an ex far more head-space than your girlfriend deserves for you to give. The divorce will wind its way through the courts, as divorces are wont to do.

Keep in mind the old saying, "this too shall pass," and let the petty oneupsmanship go. Be happy, free you mind of her entanglements and emotional baggage. Let her convince herself that she's Always Right and that the sky is pink. It simply does not matter.

Your mask is slipping.

You give her further reason to be happy to be away from you and divorced.

Nothing in this divorce has gone your way. You have not be able to manipulate a single thing.

This type of treatment is abuse.

**I know only what I have read in your profile and this thread**

You are now on your 3rd lawyer? That does not look good...as long as some of us have been here that just does not pass the sniff test. Why have you switched more than once? Let me guess, it is all their fault?

And I don’t care if it was a Tiffany diamond tennis bracelet in that present, your children are old enough to understand the ho, ho, ho wrapping paper is a clear passive aggressive jab directly at their mother.

I’m thinking you will very likely literally pay for this all is some form/fashion.

Gotta agree with everyone else.

schadenfreude

Your other thread had this title with a focus again on "messing with the ex," and I just don't see why you are investing so much time or getting so much pleasure from harming her. It's a very negative focus, and it's worrisome.

Over and over again you have told posters that they are wrong about you, your situation, and your potential missteps. And yet here we are. I hope that you will use the opportunity that life is handing you to look at yourself and see what changes you need to make to have the life you want. It does not seem that a lot of people are seeing things as you see them irl, so maybe this is a good time to reevaluate and regroup. Maybe a new IC? Revisit this process and see what you can learn? Our darkest times can bring our greatest growth. Good luck.

I went out and bought her a very nice Christmas present (that I cannot afford, tbh) that my kids picked out (a very personal gift too).

That is where you should have left it instead you used your kids to get a cheap shot at their mother. If she did something similar to you. I have no doubt you would be in here telling us about her narcissistic behaviour if you received a gift addressed to her new BF, nevermind the wrapping paper.

There's a lot of arrogance in your behaviour, you seem to think you're above reproach. Just because your stxw acts badly does not give you free reign to act in any way you want.

Have you thought about your kids at all? They already seem to resent you so you just give them more reason. I don't understand, are you trying to push them away?

[This message edited by Carissima at 3:28 AM, December 26th (Thursday)]

Your actions reflect on who you are as an adult. You have repercussions every time you choose to “mess” with the STBXW.

You may not know it but you do.

Every one of your choices affects your children.

You may not realize it but it does. Let’s recap your gift purchased from your girls to your STBXW. STBXW received gift and opens it. But the wrapping paper is a sneaky dig. Your girls are excited about the gift. But their mom - not so much because it’s tainted. She has an unpleasant association with the gift and doesn’t use it or wear it much.

Your girls notice and think their mom doesn’t like the gift.

This is what the fallout is that maybe was not considered.

You have the choice to take the high road and be the bigger person for your children. Stop putting them in the middle of this D. Remove them from the continued drama. Your children will remember years later “dad did the right thing”.

Even if the STBXW says nasty things get about you - you will shine above that by doing everything in the best interest of your children.

And one of those things is to stop messing around with their mother. Be civil. Be polite. Be an adult. Be better than the STBXW by not engaging in tit for tat. Because the children suffer the most.