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Topic is Sleeping.
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 6:59 AM on Wednesday, April 5th, 2023

Update:

Karma?

My wife has just been accused of corruption at her job. She was very low this morning and I could not help it but I asked what happened. So the story in short: she visits properties and communicates with tenants. One of the tenants wanted some more parking lots and they offered to pay a ‘success fee’ if she can arrange this. In her reply she told them (email), these matters are for the sales department…. Yes silly mistake… but…

So the problem is HR is monitoring all employee’s emails to clients. They caught this reply and contacted her boss that she should have denied all forms ‘success fees’ because it is basically telling ‘please contact our other department for bribery.’

So HR contacted her boss, not HER. I think this is bad news for her. Her boss told he tries to arrange things, but obviously the news would be sent also to the director, at this point, nobody knows what is going to happen.

Here in big companies even the slightest clue for corruption can be fatal for the accused employee. Even if she won’t be fired because of this, her files will definitely be added with a new note…

I’m just thinking how I can use this for my own interest in my current situation.

Is this a gift from above? :D

Obviously a letter to HR describing her other activities with a coworker during business days would be a nice addition to her profile now.

I’m thinking of just using this as a slight reminder when I discuss the terms of divorce with her. What do you think?

[This message edited by madmax76 at 7:11 AM, Wednesday, April 5th]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8785754
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OrdinaryDude ( member #55676) posted at 8:36 AM on Wednesday, April 5th, 2023

Regarding to informing the other party’s spouse: I did not say anything about this she did bring up this topic because she thinks I know everything and was afraid what I was going to do. She told me she talked about this with her AP right after the discovery and - without telling too much - she does not advice this, because of the retaliation that can come… She was not specific about what would come, are children in danger, or me or her or whatever.

ALL cheaters lie, and they lie a lot.

This is simple manipulation, nothing more.

Stop interacting with her, discussing the situation, or anything not directly related to the children and basic necessities.

Stick to the 50% expenses and time division strictly.

If that’s time or financially difficult for her then too bad, she created this situation, she can live with the fallout.

As I recommended before, get a PI and dig everything up.

I was young and dumb and stayed with a cheater.

posts: 3427   ·   registered: Oct. 19th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8785758
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straightup ( member #78778) posted at 8:49 AM on Wednesday, April 5th, 2023

Don’t do anything that sounds like ‘unless you do x, I will act in y way to your detriment’. It will make you look bad and may be illegal.

If you want to tell HR about their trysts, just do it. Let the outcome fall where it will.

You can, however, think about whether or not it is best for you to have her in work right now. I can see costs and benefits to both.

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 359   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8785759
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OrdinaryDude ( member #55676) posted at 8:51 AM on Wednesday, April 5th, 2023

Also, take no action with her HR situation, you want her gainfully employed completely thru the the divorce process, for no other reason than to save you money in spousal support and keep her from becoming the primary caregiver for your children.

I was young and dumb and stayed with a cheater.

posts: 3427   ·   registered: Oct. 19th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8785760
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 12:18 PM on Wednesday, April 5th, 2023

So the story in short: she visits properties and communicates with tenants. One of the tenants wanted some more parking lots and they offered to pay a ‘success fee’ if she can arrange this. In her reply she told them (email), these matters are for the sales department…. Yes silly mistake… but…

So the problem is HR is monitoring all employee’s emails to clients. They caught this reply and contacted her boss that she should have denied all forms ‘success fees’ because it is basically telling ‘please contact our other department for bribery.’

So HR contacted her boss, not HER. I think this is bad news for her. Her boss told he tries to arrange things, but obviously the news would be sent also to the director, at this point, nobody knows what is going to happen.

How did you learn about this? Let me guess: your WW told you. Keep in mind that your WW is a habitual liar. My bet would that that this story is a lie.

What do we know that she did wrong at work: fucked a coworker. That sort of behavior is likely to get her in trouble at work if HR finds out. So, if she gets in trouble at work, she needs to concoct a lie for you, one that sounds plausible, to cover her tracks.

Right now, IRT, you are in the midst of making three fundamental mistakes:

1. You still have not reached out to the OBW. The OBW is your best ally at present.

2. You are contemplating telling HR about her affair at the precise moment where you need her to be as gainfully employed as possible, to minimize spousal support in your divorce.

3. You are believing your WW's cockamamie story about why she might be facing trouble at work, when the obvious most likely reason is staring you in the face.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 1:50 PM, Wednesday, April 5th]

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 4179   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8785767
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:37 PM on Wednesday, April 5th, 2023

I believe what you are telling us, but I don’t believe you are getting the truth… I question your source.
I have professional experience in dealing with large, international companies. Including those that follow EU regulations. I am fairly certain that what your wife describes isn’t allowed (HR monitoring all mail). (It is allowed, but requires all sort of caveats and prerequisites, including employee consent OR a court-order).
Not only that but the action you describe – where a staff refers what might be considered a upsale opportunity to the sales department – is not corruption.

I take it that this is all information your wife shared with you.


I asked in an earlier post about the work-relationship between OM and your wife. Is one the superior or a manager in the company? Same level? Did one or more use company property, time or resources to have the affair?

Please – This isn’t some morbid curiostity but could be key-elements to why your wife is really on the hook with the HR department.


Another factor: Your tagline puts you in Hungary. Make 100% certain that you understand and follow Hungarian divorce-laws, marriage-laws and all that regarding financial obligations and expectations. Our experience here on SI is that European processes tend to be more set and less dramatic as to the West.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12439   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8785781
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Sometimesiamlost ( new member #80208) posted at 5:09 PM on Wednesday, April 5th, 2023

Time to go nuclear!!! For once, it would be nice if the BS came out on top!!! Write the letter turn her in -

posts: 28   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2022
id 8785806
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NotJustAnotherGuy ( new member #82949) posted at 5:25 PM on Wednesday, April 5th, 2023

OP,
I'd have to call BS on your WW's story. I've spent many years working in various industries even real estate and one of the first things we were taught was to always direct any potential payment suggestion/inquiries to the legal and sales departments. Companies simply do not want to put employees in a situation where a customer could claim they are being accused of bribery.

Something you need to wrap your head around is that your WW is a LIAR and a manipulator. It's hard to accept but until you internalize that, you won't be able to make much progress. I wouldn't even put it past her and OM to have come up with this to put you in your place, distract you and prevent more exposure - to the other woman as you seem resistant to it and even HR.

Could there be 'some' truth to this? sure. But be certain that the details are not anywhere near what you've been told and what you've been allowed to know is only for the sole benefit of your WW and possibly still the OM.

posts: 14   ·   registered: Feb. 26th, 2023
id 8785808
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 5:29 PM on Wednesday, April 5th, 2023

Stay focused Max. You’re getting distracted.

Sounds like your WW and her boss/coworker(?) have gotten themselves in some kind of trouble.

Time to make your escape. Have you actually retained an attorney yet?

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 5:52 AM, Thursday, April 6th]

posts: 1307   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8785809
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rambler ( member #43747) posted at 4:51 AM on Thursday, April 6th, 2023

I am not a lawyer and I am not giving legal advice. Even so if you even Google can your employer read you email, you will see the answer is yes but there needs to be a business purpose. Most large companies use filters with key words or phrases to find problems.

It would be a business purpose for HR or someone to look over out going client emails.

If someone offers a success fee and you tell them another department handles these things and not say we do not take success fees, it would be an issue.

making it through

posts: 1412   ·   registered: Jun. 17th, 2014   ·   location: Chicago
id 8785887
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sven ( new member #80286) posted at 9:00 AM on Thursday, April 6th, 2023

Here is what I think: tell the other spouse!

posts: 37   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2022
id 8785893
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 12:09 PM on Thursday, April 6th, 2023

Madmax

I wonder what is meant about BS "winning"?
I never see infidelity as a competition and don’t know of a single instance where one "wins" by some form of out-scoring the wayward spouse. I don’t know of a single instance here on SI where the betrayed spouse feels like they "won" some competition versus the wayward spouse, but know of several that feel some personal victory in their actions in getting out of infidelity.

This is what I suspect. It’s either A or B:
A)The company isn’t happy that company resources or time were used for the affair.
B)The OM is a manager/supervisor and they are now trying to find ways of getting your wife out of the company while keeping him.

If the former – it’s relevant who had access to the resources. If the WW/OM entered expense reports claiming hotels, milage or anything in that vein.
If the later – the roles are important. Generally companies aren’t allowed to intervene in personal matters BUT it’s an expected behavior that any one in a managerial role DOES NOT have an intimate relationship with their subordinates. There are usually processes in place if this does happen (like if a manager falls for someone in another department) but it’s always the MANAGERS responsibility to notify HR about it. I doubt a manage does so if having an affair. If this is the case – the company might be creating a case to dismiss your wife to save the manager.

If you are determined to divorce then don’t do anything. Her job is her matter, and if you want to divorce then simply work towards detachment ASAP.
If you still have some wish for the marriage… Clarify the work situation for us. IMHO it’s inevitable she no longer work with or near OM, but there can be an immense difference if she is terminated or if she has a negotiated resignation.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12439   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8785898
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Stillconfused2022 ( member #82457) posted at 3:39 PM on Thursday, April 6th, 2023

I agree with the other posters that the company is probably trying to displace your wife to try to solve their own HR problem. It is an outside observation that companies always try to keep the more senior person. A lower level employee is the one who gets pushed out. They obviously don’t want it to look that way because they could be subject to a lawsuit.

Your wife’s company has a problem. The affair has probably come to light over time at the company. Now they have a problem. If they let it fester they risk your wife becoming disgruntled and suing. It is easier for them to concoct other explanations — i.e. « corruption ». This is similar to what happened in my husband’s A at work. He was the boss and she was his secretary. She had asked to be his secretary taking a pay cut to move from her role as a lower level employee. It appears that she was looking to land a husband with money because why would anyone do that. When I showed up at the office and exposed them the company had a problem. They knew it would blow up eventually. Within a few weeks HR took over and made them both sign something saying they wouldn’t speak. When I caught them speaking a few weeks later I immediately called the HR department and reported it. Within a week she was leaving the company with severance. She never fought it, which gives some credence to my husband’s claim that she kissed him first. The company always wants to keep the higher earner if they can.

I realize it may not be advisable for you to participate in your spouse losing their job if it will impact divorce payments. It definitely helped my healing that the AP and my husband had suffered loss of employment and respect due to their actions. Maybe you just sit back and watch what happens.

posts: 378   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8785922
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Organic2003 ( member #69811) posted at 4:17 PM on Thursday, April 6th, 2023

The AP is dangerous and if you tell OBS there might be unknown (none) consequences. We(I) heard that line before. I was told AP was dangerous (beat people), turns out he is just a nice guy and certainly never beat anyone.

Unless WW can actually describe the actual danger the AP presents, the OBS needs to be informed. She deserves to know the truth of her life. She may be making all kinds of plans, like buy property, having children with her snake.

How would or do you feel people knew of the affair and never told you - another betrayal.

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 4:19 PM, Thursday, April 6th]

There is opportunity in EVERYTHING

posts: 187   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2019
id 8785934
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 6:23 AM on Friday, April 7th, 2023

Update:

I try to answer your questions:

AP:

I don't know the full identity of the AP. I know he works for the same company, because at the motel he jumped into a company car for the same company my wife is working for. According to my wife (!), he works in a different department. That's all I know to be honest.

PI must be hired to get more details, but the question is, does it worth the time and effort? I know it would be the right step morally to inform the other party's wife. I'm not sure I want to save my marriage at this point.

Recent issues with HR (corruption charges):

I might be overthinking this, but there is a strange coincidence in the series of events: (1) affair was busted (2) AP got afraid of revealing the affair (3) wife got HR calls to her 'suspicious' activities that might lead termination of her employment. Maybe my wife is too dangerous and must be removed quickly? or is this just a conspiracy theory.. or is it just a fabrication of a liar, again. She wants me to feel empathy for her? not going to happen.

Personality:

I was thinking on the possibility that my wife may be a hidden narcistic with sociopath traits. So hard to write this down. His father is also perceived to be a narcistic sociopath. (not diagnosed officially), but the actions he did in the past also showed no remorse, no emotions, always focus on his interests, self-entitled all the time, aggression.

She shows the same traits now: selfishness, frequently lied to me (and to he kids), deceived and gaslighted me, felt entitled to cheat, did not show any (!) empathy / remorse after the affair was revealed, only focused on the potential negative consequences for her, and she cannot take any level of criticism without going cold and silent. The low level of empathy I began to feel on her many years ago and that I always to had to walk on eggshells when talking to her, but I could not interpret it, because I still saw her as a beautiful entity, mother of my children.

But something has changed.. the mask has fallen? Why now?

BTW I decided to go to trauma expert and have 2 sessions weekly (from next week), because even now I cannot sleep, think straight and have issues with eating and have big emotional stress all the time. It got better a bit, but sometimes I fall back very hard.

I realized I needed a specialist to help me.

But, when I told my wife I might have PTSD and emotional trauma and I need to see an expert to help me, she did not show any emotions or empathy to me. (Remember, she said: 'Do so!' and returned to her laptop). I'm pretty sure she saw this only to be as logistic problem, because that would mean she has to come home way earlier from her job twice a week to pick up the kids from school and daycare (3 kids), and that makes her uncomfortable at her workplace... and that's it. She never mentioned she would hire a babysitter.. (= invest in his husband's healing). It does not matter that his husband suffered (because of her actions) a serious trauma, it seems to be just like a logistic problem for her.

Now she left the house to visit his brother for the Easter. She told me: You can come if you want.. I told her, this was not a real invitation for me now. I would be more comfortable with this: 'I'd like you to come.'. She got furious. Could not say that. Instead she said: 'I'd rather be alone now!' and she left with two children, because one of my daughters refused to leave daddy alone and stayed with me instead.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 7:33 AM, Friday, April 7th]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8786023
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Talisman ( member #75398) posted at 7:24 AM on Friday, April 7th, 2023

Hello mm - I have been keeping track of your situation and here are my thoughts:

You already know that she does not love you or has the slightest interest in your well being.

What she has been doing so far can best be described as biting her lip and biting her tongue - when you speak to her, she is dying to say something nasty to you but has to be quiet, which means she is planning something (not good for you).

In true narcissist style, she cares about the children because they are HER children, not because she has general love and compassion.

You need to get yourself out of this situation asap - attorney up (as you have done), focus on custody and finance/assets.

You need to also start working on healing yourself (the start of which is the 180 but should also include getting more fit and better grooming to make yourself feel better).

I hope there is no doubt in your mind that this marriage is toast.

posts: 102   ·   registered: Sep. 11th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8786024
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 9:57 AM on Friday, April 7th, 2023

Serve her D and expose to all in sundry.

She is still manipulating the outcome and needs a reality check. Presently she is living in unicorn 🦄 fart land with no accountability for her actions.

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 12:38 PM, Friday, April 7th]

Buffer

posts: 1318   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8786027
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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 3:12 PM on Friday, April 7th, 2023

He who files first, controls the tempo of the D. Your WW sounds like a very troubled individual and you would do well to detach and focus on the wellbeing of your kids.

My WW shares many of the traits that you mentioned yours had. For years, I thought she was a narc, but she did not fully fit the bill. I did an online test to see where she landed, and it revealed narc traits, but thete were other things mixed in there. There seems to be a genetic factor in her behaviour, as many of her family members through her father's line are a bit off. Even my IC who was our MC said that she's one some kind of spectrum. I have concluded that mild autism, coupled with ADD are the major issues. Add to that her FOO issues, and voila, a seriously damaged and dysfunctional individual.

What I failed to appreciate until I had detached and detoxed, was just how toxic and unhealthy my M was for me. Post S/D, my life has become very calm and peaceful. It's actually very nice. Hers, well, not do much. But at least it gives me confirmation in the correctness of my decision.

I really hope you get yourself free and clear. Your M sounds very toxic.

I'm an oulier in my positions.

Me:55 STBXWW:55 DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off and filed. Denied having an affair in court papers.

Divorced 20

posts: 1825   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8786099
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 3:35 PM on Friday, April 7th, 2023

The OP is not in the US, so divorce procedures can be different.

Madmax – one other thing I have asked you at least twice:

WHAT IS IT YOU WANT?

Do you WANT to divorce or do you WANT to have a chance (or the option) to save the marriage?
The recommendations will vary immensely depending on what you want.


Just keep in mind: This is like the train journey I shared previously. What you WANT isn’t always what you get, but as long as your are headed in the right direction you can take steps to enhance the odds of you getting what you want.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12439   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8786104
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 7:25 PM on Friday, April 7th, 2023

UDPATE:

What do I want?

I want to be in a healthy relationship where I feel loved, respected and connected to. Currently my marriage is very far from this.
In the past weeks I initially wanted to believe that with a little patience from my side and communicating openly, everything can be turned back to normal, and reconcilation could be started.
So far the behavior of my wife after the D-day was anything but promising. It shocked me, that even after the horrible things she did to us, she showed absolutely no remorse or emotions or understanding to me, became stone-walled and sad (because the affair has been revealed). Totally neutral to my wounds and need for therapy. But fun fact, that she keeps saying that she is hesitating to continue or not... As someone observed, she made a hard 180 on me, which means she mentally left the marriage. In short, she does not give a sh.t about me, literally.

I don't know if that all these things are going to change or not. Maybe I am not patient enough?

But to be honest, something died inside me. I don't think I can live with a person who betrayed me so deeply and multiple times, lied to me and laughed at me. It was not a mistake. It is her personality. You cannot humiliate your significant other like this.
At first I did not want to admit this, but the brutal truth is to accept that this person was able to betray me like this. She is capable to do it and actually did it to me. I cannot forgive this. I dont want to live like this.

Considering the above, today I've finally decided to go for the divorce. For me it is really hard decision, because I wanted to save my marriage and have a happy family together. I can only hope my children will forgive me for this decisison and accept it as a way to remain mentally ok, when they look back in time.

It is really hard now.

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8786189
Topic is Sleeping.
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