SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's for the best! Your WW didn't give you anything to work with. At least you didn't waste your time with false R. Now that you made a decision, you can begin to heal.

MM

I’m really sorry that it’s come to this. But truthfully everything that has happened point to D as being YOUR best option to get yourself OUT of infidelity. Your WW has shown you time and time again that’s she doesn’t care for you. She has laughed at you, she has mistreated you AND your children by lying, sneaking around to be with OM. She belittles you, has zero empathy for your hurt that was caused by HER betrayal. We care about you and want to see you get to the other side of this so YOU can live a healthy life. Your WW is living this crazy life where there have been NO consequences. It’s time to change that - for your sake and for your children!! You’ve been patient enough. You and your kids are suffering - how much more suffering are you willing to put yourself and those kids through? Enough is enough friend. She has shown you who she is - BELIEVE her. This is who she is - she isn’t going to change. You don’t have to hire a PI to find out who OM is - didn’t you write in an earlier post that a friend saw your wife and OM leave the hotel area and get in separate cars and leave? And didn’t that person, you friend, indicate that OM left in a company car? Try checking the company website - they may list the area managers or key personnel in that company. Go look up some of those names on social media - have your friend help and see if you can identify the OM. You be the detective. Your WW and OM used company time and resources to carry on their A. I am willing to be your WW didn’t anticipate HR would find out so fast. Could it be that OBS has found out and she’s the one that reported it?? One can only hope. Either way MM - you need to be present for your kids. Is this going to blow up their world? Probably. But better to D now than continue this toxic relationship that exposes and harms your kids so much more. Get out of this, get them out of this and heal. Best wishes to you.

BB

[This message edited by Blackbird25 at 8:23 PM, Friday, April 7th]

Remember what is best for you is also for the children not the STBX WW. Sound like this may have been her plan all along. She get the attention and validation from the POS OM. You call her out, are the asshole for this then when you D she can play the victim card. Hubby doesn’t understand me oh boo hoo!

Shine a light on all of their actions. If she is terminated due to the allegations then that is not your responsibility. She ducked up.

Good luck the number 1 priority now are the children STBX can move out. And possibly pay you child support.

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 7:22 AM, Saturday, April 8th]

Madmax

Frankly, both you and your wife’s actions since d-day and your reactions are textbook.
Its extremely rare that a new betrayed spouse realizes that the strategies we suggest (exposure, refusing the pick-me dance, removing drama…) are based on positive experience, and it’s extremely rare that a WS shows the remorse and regret required. Her attempts to control the situation and minimize are probably the typical reaction we get in 90% of cases.

If you are committed to divorce then go for it.
Your first step is to research the law in your country. Does infidelity factor in any way or form? If so then how, and what do you need to prove it for a court?
If not – then what’s the process? What are the next steps.

Remember – divorce is the termination of a relationship and not an alternative relationship. If you D you and your wife will need to coparent, and the intensity of that role is highly dependent on the children’s age. As they get older the need to interact minimizes.

I suggest you lay off with talking to HR until the process for divorce is clear. I also suggest you be very open to friends and family that you are divorcing.
Just like if you fire an employee you don’t expect work-contribution from him, so don’t expect your wife to be your friend or partner once you file. Nor your enemy. She’s simply the woman you are divorcing.

Had you shared that you wanted a shot at saving the marriage I would be suggesting a slightly different path. As-is your wife isn’t giving you that option. For one, you need to know who OM is and your wife needs to leave the job (or some form of assurance OM is not in her presence). I would be advocating you discover who he is, expose to his wife and if he’s a manager then to the HR department of the company. But since you want to divorce your – by far – best option is to get that process started.

MM,
I would not be surprised that once you file for divorce your wife’s behavior will change. She will either double down and become nastier, in which case you need to carry a VAR on you as well as install video cameras in the house. Or, she may break out of her fog somewhat and start pleading for forgiveness. The last behavior is the more dangerous in many ways. Don’t mistake her pleading with you not to divorce her as her seeing the light.
She will need to see your pain and focus on your pain. If she talks about how sorry she is for hurting you and what a horrible person she is, it is about her and not you…red flag…run.
You should tell the other BS and she should support that decision. That may well be your litmus test for her safety as a partner. Or insist that she tell the OBS in your presence. (Not sure about this others please weigh in) but she has to be willing to suffer severe consequences for you to go down the R path. To date she is certainly not a candidate.
However you decide, I wish peace and a happy life.

UPDATE:

Since we were separated for the entire Easter (4 days in total), I had time to collect my thoughts and feelings about this entire shitshow again.

My opinion did not change: I cannot live with someone who betrayed me both emotionally and physically and cheated on me multiple times in motels while lying to me / children all the time. I am not able to forgive this. It might be my weakness, but I cannot live with this humiliation and disrespect in a "relationship". I don't care if she comes home and shows the perfect mother image to children. It's all a mask, a lie. She has a second life and enjoyed it until she was busted.

I found out this affair was a true dealbreaker for me, and the lack of meaningful communication, remorse, empathy or anything human to me after the discovery were just pointing to one revelation; she still has high level of entitlement, so reconciliation is not an option now and the marriage has suffered unrepairable damage by her actions. By the way, there is absolute no use of trying to communicate with her. She does not give straight answers, she is irritated by the fact the she 'has to communicate' with me when she only wants to relax.. and besides, she said 'I don't have ANY questions regarding to you'.

How charming..

BTW she seems to be mourning the loss of his A and AP, sitting on the couch collapsed browsing Netflix titles without choosing anything for 30 minutes...

I cannot show any empathy for her "loss" or I simply don't care anymore.

I also decided to take take action and show her the ugly consequences. Time and money.

First off, from this week I'll reduce my available time and told her, she has to take care for the children at least 2 days of the work week. Yes, that means she has leave very early and come home early afternoon to pick up the children. No more 5 days, 7am - 7pm time for having job + adventures while husband is cooking and babysit children. That is over.

She was raging, but I told her sorry, but I had a therapy program to attend for trauma (which she caused). For months.

Secondly, financials: fortunately, besides our house, we also have a nice apartment and last week I told the tenants to move out and look for another apartment, so hopefully in a very short time, there will be an option for her to move out and live there.

I think she will choose this option, since I also told her (now that we're separated financially), that from now on she has to pay 50% of all mutual costs, like loan instalments, utilities, food + household items + anything regarding to children. She immediately told me she cannot afford these, so I told her the most likely option for her now to move out and enjoy her new way of living. But even is she moves out, there are still some costs she has to cover at least in 50%, like expenses for children and loan instalments / insurance fees for mutual properties. If she refuses to pay for those, I decided to document everything for later use.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 10:28 AM, Tuesday, April 11th]

Have you talked with an attorney. If not, what is the holdup?

Madmax

I respect your decision to divorce. For some infidelity is a dealbreaker and divorce the optimal outcome for them. Others can find ways to reconcile and that too is fine by me. What isn’t OK IMHO is when people decide to R or D but do neither. Where they try to find a marital pattern that isn’t "marriage" per se.

Handle reality with reality.

What you describe is not divorce, but revenge. I have yet to see or hear about a single instance where a betrayed partner revenged their way successfully out of infidelity.

I’m not familiar with divorce-laws in Hungary, but it’s part of the EU so I suspect they are a lot like divorce in other European countries. That means there is a structure – a set of laws, procedures and processes – that a divorcing couple needs to go through. I got this semi-confirmed with a 5 minute search online where I found various versions of this:

When deciding to get married in Hungary, couples enter a conjugal community of property that lasts throughout the marriage. Accordingly, all assets acquired jointly or individually during the marriage belong to both parties. This conjugal community of property does not apply to assets owned by one of the parties before the wedding.

In case of divorce, the spouses may request that a court divides the common goods and property acquired throughout the marriage. However, a court order is not mandatory if the spouses can agree upon a contract that stipulates the manner in which the assets will be divided.

And this regarding custody:

The residence of the child or children has to be established in case of a divorce. This decision is usually made by the parents. If the former spouses cannot come to a conclusion, the court will decide where the child will live.

Parental custody rights are given to the parent with whom the child will live. The other parent also has certain rights, and will continue to be involved in the child’s life and take part in important decisions regarding the child’s future.

When married you and your wife are legally seen as one financial entity. You do not have the legal ability to decide for her that she move into the other apartment, or that she pays half the electricity or whatever. For example: If you tell your wife that she needs to pay the taxes on the apartment you both own and she doesn’t they won’t only come and foreclose on half the apartment but all of it. Same with electricity, water, gas, car-loan… non-payment affects and impacts YOU as well while married.

If you decide and then demand she moves to the apartment and she refuses… there isn’t much you can do. She has a legal right to remain in her legal home. In fact - in many states and countries if you try to force her out the police might be escorting you out in cuffs.

If you decide that she has the kids two evenings a week and she too leaves for those evenings… child-protection will look at BOTH of you, and not only her. After all it’s a joint responsibility.

The ONLY WAY IMHO to clarify all these things is by following the process of divorce as advised by your attorney. You do have one, don’t you?

Keep this in mind:

Once you have decided to divorce there is no benefit whatsoever in discussing the affair, who did what, what broke the marriage or whatever.

To use a comparison: Imagine you had a contractor fixing the electricity in your home. He is always late, the work is never complete, he sometimes smells of alcohol, he is now trying to double the price… At some point you have enough and tell him to go. That you don’t need his services. There might be a short discussion about paying for whatever he has already purchased and installed, and a fair amount for the work he has done and is usable.

Once that’s out of the way… You wouldn’t be phoning him to discuss how he mixed the wires or cut them too short or how he shouldn’t drink at work or if he got to bed early to be able to go to his new client tomorrow.

It’s the same with divorce. You have fired her as your wife.

She can sit in the sofa and flick Netflix for hours. She can dress up to go date OM. She can only cook dinner for herself or whatever. She’s been fired. The only thing left is to negotiate how to formally end the marriage. The emotional detachment – that is YOUR task.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:26 AM, Tuesday, April 11th]

I will definitely divorce, I don't plan to nice her back or revenge her back. My decision is final in this.
But until we sign our contract regarding to assets and custody, we still have to live together and pay the bills, share our time. After these contracts will have been signed, the divorce can be officially started which can take 4-5 months..

So far (after D-day) her contribution was exactly ZERO. I paid for everything and I took care of the children.

I don't want to force her to leave anything, I might ask her to move out to our other apartment if she cannot afford living here. It is an option. If she does not want to move, I might move out.

What I told her is that she has to pay her own 50% share of the common bills from now on and she has to take care of the children at least 2 days out of 5 during the week. I don't see these actions as revenge, rather consequences and the end of an era where husband supported her 100% and in return I got cheating / betrayal and lies.

Having her pay 50% of their shared responsibilities is revenge? That may be one of the oddest things I’ve ever read here.

Having her pay 50% of their shared responsibilities is revenge? That may be one of the oddest things I’ve ever read here.

My guess is that for the entitled WS, fairness seems like punishment

Hi, Max;

I'm sorry you're going through all this mess, but I'm glad you found us. Just some comments and caution:

I think you're wanting her to pay half the expenses (especially if she doesn't have to pay rent for the apartment) is fair. That's the way it should be, anyway. Instead of having her pay 50%, perhaps consider she pay according to your joint income. For instance, if you bring home 63% of the household's total income and she brings in the other 37%, then maybe you pay 63% of the bills and she pays the rest. That would make it a little easier on her to be able to afford petrol, food, toothpaste, etc. for her own living expenses. She may find that more amicable and make her more willing to cooperate.

Regarding her having the kids 2 days of the week, I wonder - Doesn't she want to spend time with her own kids, anyway? If not, that's pretty sad. If she does, then that seems like a no-brainer.

I would caution the decision of you moving out. Here in the U.S., that can be considered you abandoning your family and, regardless of what she's done, may turn the situation around and make her the victim. Again, talk with your attorney.

And, don't forget when the tenants move out, that will be a loss of income for you both. Would it be better if you allowed them to stay (for the income) then either you or your WW find a different place to live?

Just some fish food for thought. We're here for you! Keep us posted!!

UPDATE:

Even though I told you very confidently earlier that I wanted a divorce, in my heart I still hoped that things could be fixed between us. After DDAY1 I gave my wife a chance to rethink everything, the family, the future of the kids and us. I did not do the pick me dance, or maybe just slightly.

I went 2 times a week to IC, because I got PTSD and minor depression because of DDAY1.

She behaved during this last month cold and distant, did not show anything like remorse or regret, but I wanted to be patient with her.

HUGE MISTAKE! DDAY2 coming.

There were some suspicious things, like phone calls in the morning hours, one time 3 hours of staying in one location between 4pm and 7pm, near a hotel.

So I decided to put a VAR into her car yesterday... I picked the VAR out today evening, so I had ONLY ONE DAY of recording..

I connected the VAR to my computer and listened the recordings... In one of the recordings she initiated a phone call while driving home to a guy... first I thought it was just a coworker, but then they started talking about this Thursday... so that she and he will take Thursday off and he was joking that he could not find an apartment for one day, but only for three hours... My wife replied while laughing, that she cannot believe this.. what a bad luck. They were funny and joking. She also told him, that her vacation was approved so she is free to go. The way they spoke to each other.... the ease how they discussed this apartment/hotel thing was (and still is) simply unbearable to me.. I cannot process this level of betrayal....Even now my legs and arms are shaking...

And let me remind you this is while I'm on therapy twice a week because of my emotional shock and wounds she inflicted!

And this is while one my daughters one day threw a flower into the air and said her only wish is that mommy and daddy could live in peace together..as one family. I told my wife about this... she did not believe it and could not care less.

OK.

I immediately confronted her and asked her about Thursday....

- What are you plans for Thursday? she replied: Oh nothing, just working, though we will have a management meeting so I might be late. (lied)

- OK, so you won't take Thursday off? she replied: of course not, I'll be working. (lied into my face again)

- OK, so what about the bad luck that there is no available apartment for the whole Thursday just for three hours? . She got frozen...How do you know this?? I gave a few more details about the conversation just to be sure she understands there is no point of lying.

She showed no remorse ,no sorry, no apologies, nothing. "I have nothing to say."

Then, I told her this was the true end of our story and our marriage. I'll file a divorce.

I told her she did this devastation to me and to the KIDS while I was thinking we might reconcile. I gave her a chance and this was what I got. It is pretty obvious she continued the affair even after DDAY1, even though she promised to stop the it and go to IC. None of these things happened.

I'm shocked and to be honest hearing their conversation and the nature of their relationship totally freaked me out. I'm in shock again. Maybe I should have asked a friend to listen to this shit...I was clearly not prepared to hear this.. and she did this after DDAY1 on a potential reconciliation and while we ARE STILL MARRIED and have 3 kids!

But maybe that was the final push for me for DIVORCE.

Still cannot believe this is happening to us.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 11:43 AM, Tuesday, April 25th]

Very sorry to read this. Sending strength. Most importantly take care of you. Take care of your children. Do you have friends or family who will be there for you in this time of crisis? Get all the support you can. Do not argue or engage further with your WW. If she tries to engage you go gray rock. No need for further discussion. See your attorney as soon as possible and get the D process started. Hopefully she will leave to be with her AP but if she won’t vacate the home, learn your legal rights for separation. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:21 AM, Tuesday, April 25th]

All I can say is expose her actions to all. She has absolutely no respect for the family nor will she put her exploits on hold until she is out of the abode. She should move out and pay child support as of now.
One day at a time.

I’m so sorry for you. I lived through a second Dday and the shock of it all is indescribable.

Like you my solution was to D. There is practically nothing left of a marriage after dday2.

Please know that your wife has some serious issues - selfishness being one of them.

update:

Yes, you are right, DDAY2 is way more brutal than DDAY1, at least for me.. . Why? Maybe because I heard her voice and his voice chatting and experienced first hand how close they are and how they actually planning their sex sessions... without remorse, without any issues.

Because now it is CLEAR that there is zero chance to save this marriage.

And I can see now the only party who is suffering now is ME and the kids. My wife is laughing and joking - she seems to be totally unaffected.

I dont't know how to get over this, how to rebuild myself. I don't even know how to function as a human being now.

Sorry for venting, simple existense is now very difficult.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 3:41 PM, Tuesday, April 25th]

So sorry. Please hang in there. Take time to grieve and take it one day at a time. You will be ok. I hope you have a good therapist and friends that you can talk to.

My thoughts and prayers will be with you.

Madmax

Frankly friend – there is nothing unique or unexpected in how things have progressed.
This post is not least for other betrayed spouses that might find this thread.

There are very few absolutes in infidelity and in human interaction overall. We can’t tell you that if you only tell your wayward wife to stop the affair and threaten divorce with no further steps that in ALL instances the affair will only go underground. Not anymore than we can tell you that exposing the affair to the HR department would have made OM end the affair with 100% certainty.
All we can do is share that OUR experience – both personal and accumulated over years on this site – is that:
If all you do is tell your wife you know of the affair and that you want a divorce – and then you do nothing else – the affair will die down for a couple of days/weeks and then start again. Only this time they try to hide it better. This is probably what happens in 9/10 instances.

If however you had followed my script from page 2… I guess there are two possible outcomes:
The first one is that you wife had decided there and then to follow her affair. Basically leave you where you are now anyways, only you would have known it THEN rather that later. Probably 4/10.
Or she would be doing her best to convince you that she is a safe partner. I am probably about 90% convinced one of those would have been the outcome. 5/10.
There is still that 1/10 that she simply hid the affair and pretended to commit to the marriage. How effective that would be is IMHO related to how well you follow the script and coming actions.

However… the "ideal" reactions to discovering infidelity ARE dependent on what you want. You very clearly stated that you didn’t want to reconcile and that you wanted to divorce.
When you tell us this in such a clear, unequivocal way then the advice is based on getting that result in the fastest and best way for you. If you want to D we can guarantee you get your wish in 10/10.
Had you shared what you did later – that deep inside you wanted a shot at reconciling – our advice would be slightly different, mainly in that we would have suggested:
Expose the affair to all stakeholders – including OM wife.
Expose the affair to HR

What the above does is that in 9/10 instances the OM dumps his AP to save his relationship.
In 2/10 the people MIGHT lose their jobs (this is why you don’t do this if divorcing), but as a rule companies hate firing for "personal" behavior. They would be opening up for all sorts of litigation.
In 10/10 instances EVERYONE learns about the infidelity and all of a sudden they can’t sneak off for a "meeting" or charge the company overtime for their trysts.

Madmax – I’m going to suggest you follow the advice on this site:

You are NOW determined to divorce. Even if you have some small hope she comes back you need to keep the mentality I tried to describe on page 3 of this thread: You need to go on your journey and she can only come with you if she too get’s on board. The destination isn’t divorce per se – the destination is out of infidelity. Only AS IS the ONLY path you see to that destination is divorce.
Focus on the end – the destination.

I warned you about revenge and this "she can pay half" attitude. Its not that its unfair, it’s more an issue that while married there is a legal and financial union. You can expect her to pay half the mortgage, but if she doesn’t the bank will still foreclose ALL the house including the half you paid for. What you can do is follow the legal process in your country for separation. I’m guessing that part of that process is the division of payments, and what that means is that if she does NOT comply you can deduct her debt from the final settlement. At worst you can sue her for her share IF the bank foreclosed.

Focus on finding the legal process of divorce and then follow that process. Avoid arguments and unnecessary confrontation because there is really nothing to argue about. She cheated, has decided to remain in infidelity and YOU are getting out.

UPDATE:

Thank you for your advises. Yes, it is true that I’m in an emotional storm and it is very hard to let things go. But to be honest the latest trick (planned sex session and a day taken off specifically for this…she never took a day off for me or for the children) was a clear and brutal sign that my wife planned to continue the affair behind my back underground and even wanted to use her one of the holiday days just to hide things. Imagine that: she would have gone to work, dressed up business like in the morning, would kiss the kids, they would say happy day at work, she would smile back, and the only difference is that she would spend an entire(!) day in an apartment with the AP instead of going to the office. She would even cook for him? And then, she would come home as nothing happened, she would discuss how hard the work was.. etc….

This is so beyond of everything I cant even describe..

Why CANNOT SHE just say, I want to live with this guy and LEAVE?

At least this was the plan….

But, after I told her that I knew about their plans regarding to possible affair on Thursday and demonstrated that both the WW’s and AP’s voices are recorded and clearly understood how they talk, how they plan their next betrayal, something strange happened.

The next day she told me she cancelled the planned session and she promised me two days later that she never wants to cheat on me again. I asked - well this is really charming - but could you please tell me why you came to this decision? She said, it is HER decision and did not wanted to disclose any reasons behind it… (On Thursday she was in the office.)

She also said that she was still unsure about our relationship. She never asked or seemed to care about my view on this matter during this conversation.

She is still cold and distant and does not communicate with me.

And, I still don’t know the true identity of the AP, but I came a bit closer.

- I got know from an internal contact, that 2 weeks ago two people were fired from the department where my wife was working. One of the guys was her BOSS and the other was her coworker.

ONE OF THEM is the AP. I know this, because she was crying the next day after the company terminated these two guys. When I asked why, she said she is so uncertain about the recent changes and she really could use the help of her boss. And the new boss is not really helping. I think 90% is that AP was her boss. I now know the names too. Still needs some research to find out the partner of the AP, but I’m on a good track I think.

You know it is funny, because she even lied in this one too, stating earlier that the AP is working on another department. That means after DDAY1 she worked right next to this guy EVERY DAY.

I confronted her with this info and she just raised her shoulder and made a strange face.. like and so what? I lied… I asked why? I lied so much because I was probably unhappy.

Ok, even if I am unhappy I don’t turn into a liar, betrayal and backstabber. She did not reply to this.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 3:51 PM, Friday, April 28th]