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Topic is Sleeping.
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Dennylast ( member #78522) posted at 4:02 PM on Friday, April 28th, 2023

Madmax, do yourself a favor and go see an attorney ASAP. What are you waiting for?

posts: 118   ·   registered: Mar. 17th, 2021
id 8788864
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 4:09 PM on Friday, April 28th, 2023

Madmax

Go back and read my posts on your thread. I don’t really see a need to suggest AGAIN your next steps.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12097   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8788866
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Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 4:34 PM on Friday, April 28th, 2023

Your wife leaves you with no choice but to lawyer up and move on. She is all over the place and very selfish. Do not put up with more of her shenanigans. Don’t communicate with her, focus on the path ahead.

posts: 235   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2023
id 8788877
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WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 6:28 PM on Friday, April 28th, 2023

Right now @madmax you are dithering and pain-shopping. This is awfully hard and you were dealt a crappy unfair hand, but your emotions are NOT serving you currently. The longer you keep trying to wake your unregretful shrew of a WW up the more hurts you will acquire and ironocally the more ensnared you will be. You instead need to be thinking of protecting yourself and your children. Please lawyer up and file for D.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:29 PM, Friday, April 28th]

posts: 781   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
id 8788901
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 8:01 AM on Saturday, April 29th, 2023

update:

It seems like she visited a lawyer and informed me that from now on she does not want to pay for the monthly instalments for our mortgage and car lease. She said I could record this and can get the missing amount after the final settlement... It is because my salary is so high and hers is so low. and she does not want to stay without any money, but still want to be in the house...

She told me divorce is not urgent for her , just wanted to see her options...

She also told me she stopped the phyiscal part of her affair. But seems like she does not want to cut the connection with the A, totally.

I told her it was unacceptable for me. If she cannot go NO CONTACT, the affair continues and I don't want to spend any minute with her if she still is in any form of contact with A. So she has to choose. She stared at me a long time and she did not want to give a straight answer. I said yes or no.

She went after few minutes staring at me: "I choose my kids."

I said you cannot have both worlds at the same time. Cheap life here and have the option to contact A, while giving me NOTHING emotionally, phyiscally - to your husband. It is like to have a parasite in my life. sucks my life energy and money and returning nothing only pain.

I told her from now on, I will pay for mortgage and car loan + insurance + utility costs and nothing else. So our kids have a home and warm water, electricity not switched off. The other ones, household + food costs are now up to her. We'll eat + drink what she buys from her own money.

ACTION PLAN: (D - now for real)

Secondly, next week I will visit my lawyer again and ask her to drive me out of this hell and loose the minimal amount of assets and money and keep the kids.

My wife, this woman betrayed me the worst possible way, cheated on me multiple times (even after DDay), lied to me all the time and still shows no remorse, no regret and wants to live her life cheaply on MY expense. Does not think of me, does not care about me. This is worst combination I can imagine.

There is nothing left in this for me.

Heading for a divorce. Lost all hope.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 8:17 AM, Saturday, April 29th]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8788954
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Edie ( member #26133) posted at 8:58 AM on Saturday, April 29th, 2023

I told her from now on, I will pay for mortgage and car loan + insurance + utility costs and nothing else. So our kids have a home and warm water, electricity not switched off. The other ones, household + food costs are now up to her. We'll eat + drink what she buys from her own money.

Yes, let’s see if she chooses the kids by putting food on the table (though do get this current financial division checked out with the attorney).

Sorry she is so unremorseful, I think you’re pushing against a certain obstinacy at play, which may indeed grow as this situation unfolds.

Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 kids 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) R'd.

posts: 6632   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2009   ·   location: Europe
id 8788957
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 11:26 AM on Saturday, April 29th, 2023

What is their work-relationship? Is the OM in any way or form a superior or manager at the company compared to her?
This is a BIG issue IMHO:
If the OM is her direct superior (like if she is a salesperson and he is the sales-manager or the department manager over the sales manager and therefore her) then you can expose to HR with minimal if any threat to her job.
You also mentioned HR was monitoring her. Any more info on that?

Please Madmax – don’t play chicken with her. Don’t threaten divorce and then just stand there and stare and see who blinks first. Start the process – both the technical and the unavoidable part where you tell the kids and the family what’s going on, find separate residences and all that.
You can control the pace. If there is some miraculous change you can stop. But if there is no change than all that can happen is that next d-day you are either in the same place, or you will have made progress out of infidelity. The later is better.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12097   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8788960
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 2:27 PM on Saturday, April 29th, 2023

I agree that you should start the process to file. You’re trying to negotiate in good faith with a person who will not reciprocate.

Your WW obviously doesn’t desire to remain your partner. I think it’s pretty obvious that if it were advantageous to her to file for D she would have done it. Her lawyer no doubt advised her to drag this out to her advantage.

The longer you sit with in action the more you will get hurt, emotionally, financially, with child care, etc. As Bigger said, if things change down the road you can slow down or stop the process.

Finally, I wouldn’t trust a word she says about the current status of her A.

posts: 785   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8788971
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 7:00 PM on Saturday, April 29th, 2023

The Gottman Institute has found that something like 95% of marriages fail if someone holds the other in contempt. The description you’ve given us is a woman who feels nothing but contempt for you. I find that appalling. You need to get out however you can, and protect those children as much as you can. I’ve had to deal with some issues like this and let me tell you it’s the little details you need to write down because if you go to court over those kids, you have to have a very clear-cut case that she is not capable of being a parent. That means phone calls, staying out late, being drunk, driving drunk, whatever she’s doing or not doing you write it down somewhere where she can’t find it or keep it in your phone but you need to keep a very clear and concise record of her behaviors.
You need to get out ASAP because this is putting a horrible strain on your health and you are the only sane parent. Ask some of these long time posters and they will tell you that they paid a Big price for putting things off with a marriage that failed. Not only in money and depression and anxiety but physically. Therapists have often found that people who go through this are then suffering from PTSD. Take care of yourself.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4150   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8788988
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 7:01 PM on Saturday, April 29th, 2023

Same

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 7:04 PM, Saturday, April 29th]

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4150   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8788990
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bob7777 ( member #79867) posted at 9:30 PM on Saturday, April 29th, 2023

Hi madmax76, I don't know if you remember my first comment on your post, but I guessed your wife was just buying time and still having her affair. There is nothing left for you, try not to get angry, get indifferent, it's hard.

posts: 101   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2022
id 8789004
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 6:15 AM on Sunday, April 30th, 2023

UPDATE:

I'm really grateful that I found this site full of really smart and empathic people and was able to tell my sad story to you who experienced the same, got over it and more importantly see my case from a rational standpoint, because I'm very well aware that my emotions and sentimental way of thinking of my wife(?) totally clouded my vision and yes I got into an emotional shock and was unable to do some meaningful action.

It is still very HARD to accept that someone you would give your life to, multiple times betrayed you, cheated on you 'just because it felt good' (this is exactly what she said..). I think the second d-day cleary showed that - if I had any doubts in that - is that she feels absolutely no remorse or regret about her affair and does not care about me. Actually, cheating became her lifestyle. It's like: let's see the week's schedule:, 4 days work, 1 fun day with my lover and then go home to my 'family'. Absolutely despicable. This is the reality now. This is who she became. I'm visiting a therapist who is by the way in the top 10 therapists in Hungary and she confirmed I suffered shock, trauma and have PTSD and it could take a long time to heal from this. My wife knew all of that...AND still planned the day-long f..k marathon behind my back.

Sadness and disappointment and negative feelings are beyond words.

BUT for the practical parts:

(1) I still feel that even though I WANT TO HAVE divorce now, I'd like to find the AP's partner and tell her the whole story. Even if I need to hire a PI, I really want to do this.

Yes I know and accept, it is a moral obligation so that the other wife could decide on her relationship. I would be a liar to say that this is the only reason why I want to do this. Besides the moral things, it is equally strong motivation inside me is that I don't want the AP to just walk away after destroying my family. With zero cost. It might be that after 3-6 months the affair would die off and he simply walks away and finds another 'victim'. And we stay here with a destroyed marriage for years. Is this ok? Maybe for this purpose - strategically - I should keep a low profile now and let things happen so that the PI would be able to catch them and extract useful information to achieve my goal.

(2) Next week I'll contact my lawyer about my exit-strategy and how to do it in a smart way. I will follow every step she suggests and avoid those that can be harmful for my case.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 7:01 AM, Sunday, April 30th]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8789041
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 6:37 AM on Sunday, April 30th, 2023

MM, infidelity is truly the worst pain imaginable. Be sure to allow yourself grace while you travel this path. I'm glad you have a great therapist to help you.

I'm glad you're going to let the OBS know about the A. This will let her have agency to make any decisions necessary for her. Expect some fall out from your WW because AP may throw her under the bus.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3126   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8789043
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:31 PM on Sunday, April 30th, 2023

Do you know who the OM is?

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12097   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8789055
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 7:16 PM on Sunday, April 30th, 2023

It might be that after 3-6 months the affair would die off and he simply walks away and finds another 'victim'.

Just please keep in mind, for your own sound mental health, that your WW is not a victim. You’re the victim-of her, not so much the AP. Your WW destroyed the marriage. If it wasn’t THIS AP, there would be line of other APs wrapping round the world to step up and take his place. Your WW is the common denominator, the weak link. She let the vampire across the threshold.

I’m not against consequences for APs. It does serve a healthy purpose and it’s cathartic. Just keep it in proper perspective. You’re not notifying the OBS to save the world from predatory, opportunistic APs, you’re doing it for the welfare of you and the OBS. I doubt the consequences of this A will steer him back onto the road of righteousness-at all.

I can’t even remember my WW’s AP’s name. He’s a nobody to me. A bottom feeding scavenger. An opportunistic pathogen, a part of the earth’s biome.

And this sits well with me.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 7:19 PM, Sunday, April 30th]

posts: 1290   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8789077
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 5:46 AM on Tuesday, May 2nd, 2023

Strength Max, listen to your legal beagle they have your best interest first and foremost.
Remember children first and foremost. Your STBX has proven that her selfishness comes above that of the children or family. Time to expose.
One day at a time.

Buffer

posts: 1318   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8789221
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Hurthalo ( member #41782) posted at 6:49 AM on Tuesday, May 2nd, 2023

Heading for a divorce. Lost all hope.

Brother, I know it feels like this at this moment. Been there, took photos, bought the T-shirt...in fact, I'm still on the tour. But I can tell you that it DOES get better. In due course, the cold evilness of these people swiftly washes away any care you have for them, or any fond memories you may hold. You will still feel anger, but most of that will be attributed to what she has done to your children in the short and long-term in choosing this despicable life; not because of what she has done to you.

What it ultimately is, is a gift. She has shown you who she is before you wasted much more life on her. You WILL meet someone 10x better than her, to the point where you will giggle to yourself how you ever found your WW attractive in any sense to begin with. And her actions and lack of remorse over the last few weeks will only further cement your contempt for her. That contempt will likely turn into pity as you further detach. I'm 10 months out from my separation, and there are days when I don't even think about her anymore. It's a slow process but you will get there.

While it is very early in the process so far, I want you to gain some hope back. Eventually you will feel like dipping your toe back into the dating arena. As an evidently nice guy who loves his kids, is financially stable and has a decent job; you will be a very hot commodity my friend.

And as for her comments regarding finances, she's already made her bed. She's telling you she no longer wants to contribute. I made a spreadsheet and got her to give me written notification of the day we agreed to draw a line under our finances until they could be formally settled. It sounds obvious, but I'd suggest getting your properties valued (if you aren't selling them) to get a fair estimate of what they are worth as of now.

She told me divorce is not urgent for her , just wanted to see her options...

She also told me she stopped the phyiscal part of her affair. But seems like she does not want to cut the connection with the A, totally.

I told her it was unacceptable for me. If she cannot go NO CONTACT, the affair continues and I don't want to spend any minute with her if she still is in any form of contact with A. So she has to choose. She stared at me a long time and she did not want to give a straight answer. I said yes or no.

She went after few minutes staring at me: "I choose my kids."

Cake eating at its finest. 'I want to continue my hot affair, but I'd really like you to pay for it Madmax.' Continuing the affair while under your combined roof is not choosing her kids; it's choosing anything but. And I did laugh at the 'divorce is not urgent for her', hahaha of course it isn't for her! That means she would need to accept consequences and accountability. Something most waywards stuck in the fog simply cannot do.

And as for AP, I'll echo what RealityBlows said: his identity is ultimately superfluous. If it wasn't him, it would be someone else. I personally found out who my WW's affair partners were because I had to know. Both of them were married, and have ended up divorced due to their affairs. Poetic justice, if it wasn't for the innocent partners (and children) who got caught up in it.

posts: 301   ·   registered: Dec. 26th, 2013   ·   location: Australia
id 8789222
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Sceadugenga ( member #74429) posted at 1:44 PM on Tuesday, May 2nd, 2023

Edit: I looked at Madmax76's more carefully and my original post turned out to be unnecessary.

But still: Madmax - you're doing admirably well given the circumstances. Greetings and best wishes from "a few" miles to the north!

[This message edited by Sceadugenga at 1:51 PM, Tuesday, May 2nd]

posts: 302   ·   registered: May. 13th, 2020
id 8789247
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 madmax76 (original poster new member #83140) posted at 8:50 AM on Friday, May 5th, 2023

UPDATE:

The sad truth is that you all were right about everthing. I was naive, made a lots of mistakes. I admit I was simply not prepared to this.

At first I thought our case, our love was unique and we were somehow an exception. I thought I could make it work by trying harder!

I thought that showing how much I care about her or love her even after DDAY1 and bringing up arguments like we have 3 children, we have 15 years of marriage history would mean anything. No, it did not mean anything to her, because she repeated the cheating or at least planned to do it behind my back while I was in a therapy session. So she knew she caused me severe emotional and mental damage, and instead of supporing me / helping me she chose to backstab me and lie to me again. This is she now. This is what she did to me. Pick-me dance does not work, it only encourages her to continue the A.

You were also right about the fact that my wife has absolutely no remorse, no regret and is extremely selfish. I thought I knew her. I thought she respected me. Now what I see is that she lives here, communicates and care only about the children. (with noticable increased frequency after visiting her lawyer). She reduced her financial contribution to the household to an acceptable level - I mean she defined what is an acceptable level is for her. She simply stated she is not sure what to do, now she is in basically a cake eater mode. And if one day she finds that she still wants to meet her AP again, then she would tell me before (like 1hr before? :D) , and then it is not a cheating! :D can you believe this? How can anyone live like this... and this is what she offers me now.

I feel she basically fears only she would lose her children or 50% custody, because I have a VAR recording and other evidence of what she did that could question her commitment and moral standards. She does not fear losing me personally. Only maybe the wealth and the easy and comfortable life that comes with me. My soul and personality or me as a human being - she does not give a f.ck. This is the brutal truth. This is what I have to accept.

AP:

I have a phone number. I did not have access to her company phone but I noticed that her phone automatically connects to her car audio system. So one day I asked her that we should use her car to bring children to school and while she was away I could enter the car's menu system, clicked on Phone menu and could immedietaly see the call history. I jumped to the date, when the compromising VAR recording was made and I could identify the phone number she called.

I'm now checking this phone number and try to identify the identity of the AP. I also asked for full call history of my wife personal phone, because I am the main subscriber so I have the right to get it.

If it is not possible to get the identity of the AP (because you can choose not inlcude yourself in the public registry), then I will hire a PI to do some investigation. I'm determined to find the AP's wife and tell her the truth.

Next week I will talk to my lawyer on my next steps.

[This message edited by madmax76 at 9:12 AM, Friday, May 5th]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Mar. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Hungary
id 8789674
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bob7777 ( member #79867) posted at 5:49 PM on Friday, May 5th, 2023

Yeah sorry MM. You're kinda special and unique but not in the confines of relationships. If it comes to relationships there's only a power dynamic between two parties. By trying harder you just make it worse. If you have a cheating spouse and the affair is still ongoing, you become the enemy of your "former" spouse, to avoid that you have to take yourself off the equation.

posts: 101   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2022
id 8789827
Topic is Sleeping.
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