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Divorce/Separation :
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TheWrongOne ( member #78753) posted at 10:46 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

Wow. This is the most excruciating thread I have ever read. I'm not sure I want to post on the Divorce/Sep forum now.

[This message edited by TheWrongOne at 4:47 PM, May 19th (Wednesday)]

posts: 190   ·   registered: May. 6th, 2021
id 8660947
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 11:26 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

Not everyone has the resolve, fortitude, and clarity you had on DDay, TheWrongOne.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1398   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8660968
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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 11:45 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

Wow. This is the most excruciating thread I have ever read. I'm not sure I want to post on the Divorce/Sep forum now.

I joined Nov 2018 and I've seen way more excruciating than this in my time here.

Don't let other threads discourage you from posting for your own support going through D. Even if you're chompin at the bit to D, it still hurts.

Not everyone has the resolve, fortitude, and clarity you had on DDay, TheWrongOne.

I'd venture to say the majority of folks don't have that. It's great if you do, but nothing wrong with you if it's an almighty struggle either.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"Being weird is just a side effect of being awesome."– Unknown

posts: 3179   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
id 8660977
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 11:53 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

Ellie,

I would have to be quite the hypocrite to give wafflers a hard time. We all work through our problems in our own time.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1398   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8660981
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josiep ( member #58593) posted at 12:49 AM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

I'm very late to this conversation but want to point out, Daniel, that divorced people can get back together. I had an aunt & uncle who divorced and remarried twice and I have 2 sets of friends who divorced and remarried.

Get your divorce. End it; get out of Limbo. Get on with your life. Your new and improved life where you get IC and quit waking up in the middle of the night with your heart pounding. Fix up your new house and have fun with your dog and enjoy every minute of decorating with your daughters. Some fun projects together would be perfect.

Then, someday, if your SBTXWW decides to grow a spine and develop some morals, maybe you can go out together for a cup of coffee and see how you feel at that point. I daresay you'll probably have moved way beyond her ilk by then but you can keep that vision in the back of your mind if it helps you.

This will all get easier when you don't have to see her at all. Or talk to her. Reduce all communications to email.

The reason you're struggling is because you have contact with her.

P.S. You're way too good for her but I don't suppose you actually believe that yet. Hang in there.

[This message edited by josiep at 6:51 PM, May 19th (Wednesday)]

BW, 70 YO; M 45 yrs., T 49 yrs.
DDay#1, 1982; DDay#2, May, 2017. Divorced.

posts: 3062   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2017
id 8660997
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 1:32 AM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

Josiep, I know the suggestion that people can get married again after a divorce is through gets thrown around here a lot, but in real life it’s extremely rare and for good reason... once you have gone through the pain and expense of getting divorced, there is no turning back. I think it’s especially perilous when kids are involved because you’ve essentially uprooted their lives for nothing.

Besides, I don’t think any of us would’ve signed up for the misery of infidelity if we knew that’s what we were getting at the outset... which is what entertaining the idea of reconciliation after divorce means.

And Daniel... you really need to stop communicating with your wife completely; only discuss matters pertaining to logistics with the kids using a parenting app. She didn’t need to know that you told your daughters; she wouldve found out on her own eventually or not at all.

You need to realize that not only is talking to her pointless and detrimental to your healing, you are giving her insights that enable her to hurt you. Remember, you’ve been married for decades... she might’ve changed as a person over time she but she knows exactly how to pull your strings and push your buttons. She has been doing so successfully for years.

As I said in my last post, your wife is a sadist. When she feels like she is losing her grip on your and/or can’t control you anymore by dangling the carrot of reconciliation, she will reach for the stick and try to pummel you with it.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 502   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8661007
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Adira ( member #77327) posted at 1:53 AM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

Daniel

When she feels like she is losing her grip on your and/or can’t control you anymore by dangling the carrot of reconciliation, she will reach for the stick and try to pummel you with it.

THIS.

gentle 2x4-

She's blatantly baiting, hooking & abusing you at every turn.

Check out Ross Rosenberg's 12 potent tricks video on youtube if you haven't already.

I played this back & forth manipulation game with my WH for three very painful years. Don't be me.

IT DOESN'T CHANGE.

[This message edited by Adira at 7:55 PM, May 19th (Wednesday)]

Me BW, STBXWH covert NPD
2 teenage kids
M: 24 years, together 27 years
3x DDays: 08/2017; 10/2017; 02/2018 with the Hobbit Howorker.
False R: 02/2018-12/2020
Currently in IHS

posts: 62   ·   registered: Feb. 16th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8661013
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romiane ( new member #70933) posted at 9:26 AM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

I'm sorry but your daughters don't need a play-by-play account of what is happening. Oversharing with your kids is a sure way to them needing decades of therapy.

You telling them that you are divorcing because your wife hurt you is fine, even specifying the hurt as her going outside her marriage is ok. But what you did with your latest revelation was just wrong.

Don't play innocent, the reason behind the oversharing is not as much a quest for absolute truth than showing how much your spouse is hurting you. And by doing that you are placing the kids in an impossible choice of either siding with the cheated on spouse and shunning their parent, which is not something they want to do, or feel guilty about still loving both their parents.

My mother did the same to me when I was young, and contrary to what the majority of people here would let you believe, I was and still am very resentful of her making me a pawn in her pain by playing the will we/ won't we divorce game with details of where they were with their love triangle.

I have a better relationship with my dad (who was the cheater) than my mom now that I am an adult because in her attempt at revenge she also severely damaged her relationship with me.

Sorry but since nobody was going to call you out on this, I thought you should know before you do more things in your pain (which is real and completely legitimate) that will come to haunt you in the future.

posts: 16   ·   registered: Jul. 4th, 2019
id 8661058
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 9:59 AM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

I don’t see any oversharing here at all. I doubt he’s told them anything they haven’t seen. Kids aren’t stupid.

If there’s any therapy needed it’ll be from their mothers destructive actions.

Last night I told my daughters that STBXWW and I tried to work things out, but your mother keeps contacting her boyfriend. I told them that I can’t take it anymore and that the new house closing is next week and I will be moving out ASAP…this is no longer my home…I told them we would tour the new house later this week so they could think about how they want their bedrooms…and that a mover will be there the first week of June to move a bunch of furniture out.

[This message edited by Marz at 4:04 AM, May 20th (Thursday)]

posts: 6704   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8661059
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TwoDozen ( member #74796) posted at 10:23 AM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

@Romiane

I do not agree with your observation. Daniels children are old enough to understand and therefore old enough to deserve the truth. Sure fine details are not required, but I see nothing in Daniels posts that he has overshared

My children are almost the exact same age and we told our children we are separating and the reason why about a month ago.

The alternative was to lie, then tell them years down the line that we lied to them. Not acceptable from my perspective.

like you, I was placed in the same situation when I was a teenager and I have the exact opposite experience. I am very close to my mother (the betrayed) and I am cordial at best with my father (the cheater) but this has nothing to do with the A and more to do with the fact my father stopped acting like a father at the same time he stopped being a husband.

Play stupid games ; Win stupid prizes

posts: 371   ·   registered: Jul. 6th, 2020
id 8661061
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 DanielJK (original poster member #75654) posted at 1:04 PM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

FWIW, my conversation with my kids was more like “STBXWW will not stop communicating with (AP), I can’t live like this anymore and will be moving out next week. My closing is on the 26th and a moving truck will be here the following week.”

Romaine please read here - Also, my STBXWW decided a few months ago to tell my daughters on her own, without me present, that she “HAD” an affair (“had”…get it? “had” an affair). Then she continued the affair.

She already told my kids about the affair. Without me present! WTF?

Now am I going to move out and have my children believe that their mother “had” an affair like it’s ancient history? and I’m leaving because I can’t get over it? Allow STBXWW to spin the tale that we’re just not compatible anymore? That mom and dad just don’t get along anymore? FUCK NO!!!

She was having an active affair when she told them she “had” an affair and then continued the affair. She lied right to their face (“Had” an affair, good God, she was fucking AP 3-4 months after telling them that she “had” and affair). In fact, she had contact with him up until this week, like this week just two days ago. (Just FYI she claims it’s over …again… I think this is literally the 6th time she has said it is over).

“Had” an affair, she “had” an affair. Think about that. Sounds good doesn’t it?… “I had an affair, but you know…that’s just part of my past that I have to own now. No big deal. Your father just can’t get over it, he’s so angry and irrational.”

Adira – thanks for the reference. He mentions in one of his videos something like “don’t wrestle with a pig, you get dirty and the pig likes it.” I like that. It just reinforces what everyone here says a lot, NO CONTACT. You don’t get dirty if you stay no contact. I see a little clearer now because of those videos.

Thanks others for the support, TheWrongOne not sure why you would decide not to post because of my story, but that’s you choice. I’m going to keep posting. I wish you luck with your divorce and hope you find peace.

BH 51
STBXWW 53
2 daughters, 14 and 16
Filed for divorce 12/23/2020

After a year of hell I finally moved out (5/26/2021).
Divorce still pending.

posts: 455   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2020   ·   location: CT
id 8661079
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josiep ( member #58593) posted at 3:25 PM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

osiep, I know the suggestion that people can get married again after a divorce is through gets thrown around here a lot, but in real life it’s extremely rare and for good reason... once you have gone through the pain and expense of getting divorced, there is no turning back. I think it’s especially perilous when kids are involved because you’ve essentially uprooted their lives for nothing

Blue, It's extremely rare because what has happened is dreadful and once the injured party starts to heal, they often realize they don't really love the person that hurt them anymore. But when we're in the thick of it, what we think is love is really more about our fears and our pride. And in cases of codependency and alcoholism, there can also be a bit of "getting our fix" thrown in.

But my whole point, which I never really articulated so I apologize for that (and wish I was a better writer because I often have what I think is an insight to share that will help someone but by the time I write it down, I've lost the gist of it. AlAnon tells me why I do that but I'll save that explanation for another time), was to caution Daniel about stopping the divorce and getting back with her, thinking this is his only chance. If they're meant to be together, it'll still happen. And it'll happen better and wiser if he has some say in the matter.

The way I see it, Daniel is thinking in absolutes. That's not a criticism, that's a human reaction to trauma and pain. But it hurts us and sometimes causes us to do something because WE JUST CAN'T LET IT BE. Daniel doesn't have to decide anything today. In fact, Daniel shouldn't be deciding much of anything right now because he's much too traumatized. He's got a plan, a well considered and logical plan. And I don't think he should change his plan to reach for the carrot cuz that carrot might be nothing more than an icicle painted orange.

BW, 70 YO; M 45 yrs., T 49 yrs.
DDay#1, 1982; DDay#2, May, 2017. Divorced.

posts: 3062   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2017
id 8661114
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josiep ( member #58593) posted at 3:58 PM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

Daniel,

I'm going to share a few observations with you. Take what you like, dump the rest.

I'm so much like you and the hardest part of my journey is the lack of control over what other people think and the almost obsessive need I have to set them straight, tell them the truth. I've been in counseling, I do my AlAnon readings (no meetings these days but I did go before the pandemic). I've been NC with my XWH since he walked out but our kids were already grown and on their own and he moved 1000 miles away. And it's still damn hard. The need for things to be right, for the truth to be told, my righteous indignation, indeed, the whole foundation of my life and my core beliefs has been upended and, well, you can tell by this run on sentence that I still have work to do. The second my mind isn't occupied with something, it goes right back to thinking about everything and how the truth has left the building. I take sleeping pills because without them, I wake up in the middle of the night and my mind races with it all. Over and over and over again. One of my recent AlAnon reading talked about having reliving the same thought 40,000 times or having 40,000 new thoughts.

I do believe that once you are away from your STBXWW, the sooner you'll begin to heal. The sooner you stop talking to her, the sooner you'll heal. We all tell you this from experience. We all thought we were the exception to the rule when we same to S.I. It's the same way in AA and AlAnon. We dive deep into the "Yes, but" syndrome and it really, really works hard to keep it's hold on us.

But let me proposition you with an idea: How about you learn to trust US, the experienced friends you've made here at S.I. and try what we know works. Make no mistake - we've all had to learn it the hard way and the reason we share our knowledge is trying to save you learning it the hard way. Try it for a week. Go NC with your STBXXWW. You do not have to respond to her texts, her emails, her anything. You are not beholden in any way to do so. If it's important, her lawyer can call your lawyer. If there's something about your daughters, she can send an email.

This is no time for you to discuss a car with her. She's just trying to pull you in, trying to engage you in family life. Why? Who knows and who cares? The things she has said and done to you have our spidey senses tingling big time. Since your spidey senses have been dulled as of late, trust ours for now.

Now, we mean no communication. Nothing. Nada. Not a response in any way. As tempting as it is, no response in any way. She wanted to be with someone else, let her talk to him about whatever it is she wants to talk about.

As for your daughters, try to keep your conversations with them about your new house and decorating and maybe plan a party and if they bring up anything else, you can honestly tell them that you don't think you should talk to them about anything right now while you're in pain. You can honestly tell them that you're going to be OK, you're made of strong stuff and you will heal. It's so hard for kids because they watch the person who loves them more than anything else in the world hurt the only other person in the world who loves them more than anything else in the world. It's hard on them. Let them sort out their feelings. Don't feed into any of it. They'll sort it out. Just love them.

OK, sorry to go on for so long but I'm so proud of what you've accomplished and just hate to see you get so down on yourself now that you're so close to the end of the nightmare. In that regard, what are your plans for the new house? Have you spent any time thinking about that? Now might be a good time to start visualizing your life in the new house. Will you sit on the front porch and have a beer at the end of the day? Will you put in a garden? Will you decorate a game room with your alma mater colors? Bobbleheads, etc.? What was something you always wanted to collect but never did because "she" wasn't onboard? Now would be a good time to regain "you."

Hang in there - you're so close. And I for one am really pulling for you. Your story touched my heart and I send you wishes for continued strength. It's very hard when a good man encounters evil so close to home because he doesn't know what to do because it's just not something he ever imagined he'd have to deal with.

BW, 70 YO; M 45 yrs., T 49 yrs.
DDay#1, 1982; DDay#2, May, 2017. Divorced.

posts: 3062   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2017
id 8661129
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josiep ( member #58593) posted at 4:23 PM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

'm sorry but your daughters don't need a play-by-play account of what is happening. Oversharing with your kids is a sure way to them needing decades of therapy.

You telling them that you are divorcing because your wife hurt you is fine, even specifying the hurt as her going outside her marriage is ok. But what you did with your latest revelation was just wrong.

Don't play innocent, the reason behind the oversharing is not as much a quest for absolute truth than showing how much your spouse is hurting you. And by doing that you are placing the kids in an impossible choice of either siding with the cheated on spouse and shunning their parent, which is not something they want to do, or feel guilty about still loving both their parents.

My mother did the same to me when I was young, and contrary to what the majority of people here would let you believe, I was and still am very resentful of her making me a pawn in her pain by playing the will we/ won't we divorce game with details of where they were with their love triangle.

I have a better relationship with my dad (who was the cheater) than my mom now that I am an adult because in her attempt at revenge she also severely damaged her relationship with me.

Sorry but since nobody was going to call you out on this, I thought you should know before you do more things in your pain (which is real and completely legitimate) that will come to haunt you in the future.

You read his entire thread and still wrote this? Did you really see him explaining his moving out because the attempted R didn't work out because Mom wants to keep her BF as a "blow-by-blow account"? While it would have been better if he hadn't told them he was moving out and then for sure he shouldn't have told the WW but I find your take on it to be a bit exaggerated.

I don't know how old you were when your Dad screwed someone else and destroyed your mother and your family but each child, each parent and each family has their own dynamic of how to deal with it. Nor did you explain what your Mom did to you in an attempt to exact revenge on your Dad but it sounds like you're OK with what your Dad did and that's OK. We're all human and forgiveness is a wonderful thing. But when it comes to your Mom and you viewing her actions as more vile and evil than your Dad's, well, the kind thing to do would be to tell her how you feel and let her go. I see so many betrayed women trying to please their grown children in much the same way they used to try to please their immoral spouses and it pains me because I realize they're still in the same situation they always were, just different players.

Aside from all that, slamming another poster and telling them what they've done to their kids is a "sure way to them needing decades of therapy" probably wasn't the most effective approach. The OP is already someone who has the need to explain things and clear things up and so now, instead of considering the best approach for handling his daughters and weighing the various options, he's spending the mental energy explaining what he said and what he meant. I don't mean this as a slam, just food for thought.

BW, 70 YO; M 45 yrs., T 49 yrs.
DDay#1, 1982; DDay#2, May, 2017. Divorced.

posts: 3062   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2017
id 8661138
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Freeme ( member #31946) posted at 4:32 PM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

I'm sorry but your daughters don't need a play-by-play account of what is happening.

I thought this too when you first wrote your update. I'm really glad you clarified it for all of us. I've been following your thread and it seemed like so much back and forth. You deciding that you've had it. That it's over. That she's abusive. Her dropping a few crumbs and you being all in. You've said it yourself. The hopeium runs strong. My concern when I first read your post.

Last night I told my daughters that STBXWW and I tried to work things out, but your mother keeps contacting her boyfriend. I told them that I can’t take it anymore and that the new house closing is next week and I will be moving out ASAP…this is no longer my home…I told them we would tour the new house later this week so they could think about how they want their bedrooms…and that a mover will be there the first week of June to move a bunch of furniture out.

was that this was just another attempt to make your WS "see the light" and end things. I figured she would respond by ending thing and you would be right back to accepting the crumbs and hoping its for "real" yet again.

This is what I thought but your message above explaining your reasoning and your response to WS saying that she was finally ending things with OM... made me feel like you aren't jerking the girls around in hopes of getting your WS to "see the light."

You just need to keep heading in the same direction and not get sucked back in.

posts: 2807   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2011   ·   location: Washington DC
id 8661139
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 DanielJK (original poster member #75654) posted at 5:53 PM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

In that regard, what are your plans for the new house? Have you spent any time thinking about that? Now might be a good time to start visualizing your life in the new house. Will you sit on the front porch and have a beer at the end of the day? Will you put in a garden? Will you decorate a game room with your alma mater colors? Bobbleheads, etc.? What was something you always wanted to collect but never did because "she" wasn't onboard? Now would be a good time to regain "you."

Very simple, a cheap plastic adirondack chair and one of those fire pits. I look forward to sitting in the yard next to a fire and just relax.

I actually might put in a garden, and that is one of those things she didn’t want to do that I would like to try.

I also hope my daughters will be excited to do what they want in their own space.

You just need to keep heading in the same direction and not get sucked back in.

Just a few more days…less than a week now. The end of IHS is in sight.

BH 51
STBXWW 53
2 daughters, 14 and 16
Filed for divorce 12/23/2020

After a year of hell I finally moved out (5/26/2021).
Divorce still pending.

posts: 455   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2020   ·   location: CT
id 8661184
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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 6:10 PM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

I do believe that once you are away from your STBXWW, the sooner you'll begin to heal. The sooner you stop talking to her, the sooner you'll heal. We all tell you this from experience. We all thought we were the exception to the rule when we same to S.I. It's the same way in AA and AlAnon. We dive deep into the "Yes, but" syndrome and it really, really works hard to keep it's hold on us.

As a BS and an adult child of an alcoholic... sooooooo true. So true. And having traveled through both of those rodeos, I can tell you my experience, it only stopped when I said 'when'; when I laid down my boundaries hard and refused to engage with people who wanted to cross them. That is really hard to do, but so worth the effort.

Very simple, a cheap plastic adirondack chair and one of those fire pits. I look forward to sitting in the yard next to a fire and just relax.

I actually might put in a garden, and that is one of those things she didn’t want to do that I would like to try.

There's a lot of joy to be had in simplicity after separating. I started reading again and painted some furniture. Doing my art projects. Doing house stuff as and when I could afford it. Find your joy and embrace it.

FWIW, I don't think what you said to your girls was bad. Being truthful is hugely important, both for them and for you. My only advice would be to make sure to stick to calm facts when you're talkin to your girls. Your anger at stbxww is completely justified, but try your best to leave your anger at the door when the conversation with them includes anything about their mom. The last thing you want to do is put them in the middle and make them feel like they need to take sides (not that I think that is what you're doing DJK).

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"Being weird is just a side effect of being awesome."– Unknown

posts: 3179   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
id 8661195
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J707 ( member #63778) posted at 6:37 PM on Thursday, May 20th, 2021

What you told your daughter's was fine and truthful. No gory details. I told my kids that I can't be M while your mom has a BF. I found out about the AP from 1 of my kids. So they already knew. We were D'ng because of it. They don't know about all the details I discovered being a marriage detective. I never talk bad about their mother. It's hard not to but I complain to coworkers, family and friends.

As others have said, once you are away from her and out of the house, you'll begin to have some healing and clarity. The more time you grey rock, NC and focus on yourself and your kids, you'll see things more clearly. Keep going, you're almost out of the house. Maybe you and the kids can paint there rooms. Have them pick out the colors.

Just know, this isn't the end with your very stbx. She will continue with her manipulations, victim, gaslighting etc. Write it here. Talk to a friend. Don't respond. At some point you'll be laughing at how absurd some of the crap that comes out of these individuals.

posts: 1104   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2018   ·   location: Ca
id 8661204
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TwoDozen ( member #74796) posted at 12:48 PM on Monday, May 24th, 2021

Very simple, a cheap plastic adirondack chair and one of those fire pits. I look forward to sitting in the yard next to a fire and just relax.

Just purchased my own fire pit for the exact same thing - but.... there has to be more for you than this Daniel, dig deep

What compromises did you make in your marriage that you can go back to now, I’m sure there are loads.

You always wanted a garden, good, buy some 2nd hand books books join some Facebook pages, the actual graft will keep you busy and the results will inspire you to do more.

What else?

Learn guitar, paint, buy an old motorcycle and rebuild it from scratch, volunteer?

There must be loads of things you want to do that you couldn’t but now you can.

Play stupid games ; Win stupid prizes

posts: 371   ·   registered: Jul. 6th, 2020
id 8662153
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 DanielJK (original poster member #75654) posted at 1:41 PM on Monday, May 24th, 2021

What else?

I'm starting a savings account for a mustang.

I want a convertible mustang cobra...or one of those GT500s.

But seriously, other than that very simple stuff. I'll figure it out as I go along.

BH 51
STBXWW 53
2 daughters, 14 and 16
Filed for divorce 12/23/2020

After a year of hell I finally moved out (5/26/2021).
Divorce still pending.

posts: 455   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2020   ·   location: CT
id 8662164
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