Too serious too quick
So I posted a little while ago about how good NC has been for me. It’s not complete NC because we have kids but it’s as good as I can hope it to be.
Since going NC I felt better almost immediately and started dating a couple of months later. Initially I went on 1 date with a friend which I knew immediately was a mistake and that mistake broke her heart. We seem to have gotten through that and back to friends (ish)
I then met someone OLD and went on a 1st date a few weeks back. We got on well and have communicated daily since and met a few times for coffee etc (etc being a very encompassing term in this context if you catch my drift)
She is super keen on me and everything I do or say inadvertently only seems to cement in her mind that I am mr perfect.
Last night I had an overwhelming feeling that things were moving too quickly and a major panic attack ensued. I do like this girl but I am already conscious that for me I think this is a short term relationship measured in weeks or months not years, but that she is on the verge of saying the ILYs and daydreaming about running off into the sunset, it’s got me scared as hell what I do here.
Any advice on how to pull this current relationship back to casual / lighthearted and steer it away from the meeting parents and god knows what next stage?
15 comments posted: Tuesday, April 19th, 2022
Detach detach detach
For those who know my story you will know that it took a sh*t ton of crap and foot dragging from WGF for me to get to this point but for those who don’t or those that are new here
Listen to the good folk here at SI and
Detach detach detach
3 months in and life is good
That is all 😂
3 months ago I decided I was done. 3 months ago I decided that I was no longer responsible for WGFs pain because of her A. 3 months ago I took my life back and left WGF to her own devices. I no longer care what she does, who she sees, where she works and with whom she works. I literally don’t care. Not my problem and life is good.
Thanks for all the support along the way.
18 comments posted: Wednesday, March 9th, 2022
Question for healed BS’s about healing.
I’m interested to hear what if anything was the catalyst for your own personal healing. Whether that was some knowledge you gained or activity you started intentionally to heal yourself. Whether this came from IC or some other source.
I don’t know if the answers will be different for those in R or those who chose to D but I’m interested to hear either.
I’m 2 years out from dday and 6months from separating and feel like I should be doing better than I am. This shit still invades every corner of my mind almost all of the time whether awake or asleep. And no amount of well meaning advice from friends and family to "stop thinking about it" has any effect.
I don’t think my IC has come across an over thinker quite like myself before and is ill- equipped to find anything that works.
As crazy as it sounds at 2 years out I think I’m still drifting in and out of the denial stage. Almost as if I’m still stuck in "this is not what I want" mode and that somehow I can still have what I want ie my old pre A innocent life back.
Thanks in advance 2D
37 comments posted: Friday, December 31st, 2021
So last night was my first proper night out since separating from WGF. Just me and a mate, few beers, dinner, few more beers and a club.
Probably let my hair and my guard down more than I was planing to if you know what I mean and this morning I have a girl less than half my age texting me. Don’t even know how it happened or where we met etc I just know we was at the club together.
I feel f****** awful about it.
Nothing major happen just dancing and whatever in the club., no going back to anyone’s house etc but I feel like I’ve cheated. I don’t feel good about my behaviour in anyway, I don’t want to see this girl again I just wanna curl up and disappear
Why the hell do I feel like this. I’m free and single.
This is not the life I want to live I still just want my old comfortable predictable life back.
6 comments posted: Sunday, October 17th, 2021
Post separation finances
WGF and I are agreed on a 50/50 child care situation and will take care of any bills within our own individual homes
What is less clear are those bills that are neither her nor mine.
She will keep our pets (I can’t take them) so will need to pay 50% of their upkeep
Kids clothes, hobbies, costs etc
Kids school friends birthday presents
How do you all manage the money that goes back and forth between you? We are agreed on 50/50 for all these things but how does that work in principle?
We currently have a joint account which we plan to close but would be ideal for keeping a “float” for these kind of situations however that leaves us financially linked and a credit risk.
We could send money back and forth each time one of us takes care of one of these situations but that sounds laborious
WGF “I’ve just bought DD a pen for school, it cost $1.20, can you send me 60 cents please”
What do you guys do?
12 comments posted: Thursday, July 1st, 2021
Is this unusual?
Tomorrow I will exchange and complete on my new house, over the next few days I will slowly move out - but why slowly?
Well essentially we get on great, we don’t argue, I don’t ram her A down her throat and we enjoy each other’s company.
We have children who live in the same house and we are both showing them that we can be amicable or more than amicable
She has agreed to almost every single request I have made, we have without conflict agreed who will keep what, take what and where the kids will spend their time.
She has bought me gifts to furnish my new home and I have taken care of jobs that needed doing here in advance of my leaving this house (my kids primary abode) so she doesn’t have to worry about them
So how is this all possible - I don’t see a single other instance of this situation on SI, we are like a couple who have R’d without the R
Neither of us want what is happening but she could not deliver what I asked for and I cannot give her what she wants
My needs - NC / truth (she works with AP and doesn’t want to talk about the A so no IC and no timelines etc for me)
Her needs - Pretend it never happened just move on and be better to each other.
I have been going over and over this in my head, can we stay friends, should we stay friends - and ultimately I come to the same points
We are parents and have to coparent
If I had to exclude anyone who has cheated from my life that would be a lot of people and many who I am close to and rely on inc my best friend for life and father but many many others so what sense does it make to treat WGF any different? - would I be cutting my nose off to spite my face - she is facing the consequences of her choices by having to support herself financially and despite what I expected she is not blaming that on me for initiating separation. She is for the most part accepting responsibility for the outcome of her choices.
Is this the calm before the storm?
Are the any precedents for this situation here on SI?
38 comments posted: Tuesday, June 29th, 2021
So just heard from WGF to inform me that she’s dropped her signed paperwork in at the solicitors to instruct them to handle her purchase of my half of the family home
Everything else regarding mortgage applications / approvals / closing on my own new home etc is already underway so not being married this is about as close to initiating divorce as we get...
I’m not going to lie I shed a tear (or lots of tears) when I got her message this afternoon. I’ve been holding them in for a while now trying to fake it before I make it and havnt really had any kind of strong emotional days for a number of weeks now but this hit me today.
It’s a mixture of sadness, loss, anxiety, excitement, empowerment, grief, and all sorts of other mixed emotions but mostly this is a sad day, one I never ever imagined would come to pass.
If I was to compare, it’s nothing like the raw emotions of the 3 - 6 months post dday but compared to how I’ve been for a month or two it’s pretty strong.
Separating is going about as smoothly as one could hope for. WGF has agreed to any and all request I have made and we have so far continued to have a very amicable split. We get on so well and agree on almost everything besides the A which of course is a mute point now so life at home is harmonious and today’s step was as simple as agreeing who turn it is to put the bins out.
I still cannot fathom whether or not this is an epic game of chicken and who will blink first but regardless another step in the process has been ticked off.
18 months post Dday this still doesn’t feel like my life 😢
7 comments posted: Tuesday, May 25th, 2021
In the time I’ve been on SI (around 1 year) I have read and been told multiple times that no BH who has chosen to D/S has regretted it
Currently right now we have not 1 but 2 BH’s posting that for reasons of loneliness / children they do regret their decision to leave and they are considering or actively moving forwards with a new attempt at reconciliation.
In addition there are at least 4 BH’s (myself included) in the phase between telling their WW they want a D and actually physically separating, who for want of a better description are in and out like a fiddlers elbow.
My analysis of all of these situations indicates we have WWs who do regret their choice to cheat, would probably take it back if they could, are very forthcoming with ramping up the affection and focusing on any positive fallout of the A like closer connection, HB etc but for reasons that I just cannot understand cannot (or will not) accept the negative consequences such as lower trust levels, adjustments to their daily lives to make their spouses feel safe (transparency, NC etc)
My observation from the posters stories are that these WWs are not inherently bad people, made terrible choices, sadly doubled down on these terrible choices by refusing to acknowledge the BH’s pain and now years down the line are still trying to rugsweep.
I’m not entirely sure what the point of my posts is but I guess I have 2 questions
1. Are the 2 posters mentioned above genuinely the first BH’s that have come back after D/S and said they regret their decision to leave?
2. What is going on with our WW’s who desperately want to stay M but even when faced with the ultimate consequence of D/S can’t or refuse to accept the proven steps to achieve that? Why is D/S an easier pill to swallow than what you are asking them to do?
18 comments posted: Thursday, May 20th, 2021
It’s been a while since I posted and generally I’m in a pretty good place. In the last few weeks, between us, WGF and I have made a huge number of steps towards separation but it’s clear that’s not what either of us really want, it’s just what’s happening.
Someone mentioned this previously and I had had the feeling myself, that WGF and I appear to be locked into a game of chicken and neither of us are backing down.
Some back ground
WGF of 24 years had a 3 month PA with a CoW at the end of 2019. All the signs were there and I asked her what was going on multiple times but in the end, like so many others on here I had to find evidence before she would confess. The months that followed were littered with all the things we see so regularly on Si, gaslighting, blameshifting, minimising, catasthroihising, denial, TT etc etc
I like many others fumbled in my attempts to get what I needed and did the pick me dance for a long time
But eventually at around 6 months post Dday WGF fell back in love with Twodozen again and fell hard.
At this point I started to feel stronger and started to realise that how I had behaved for the prior 6 months was affecting my own self esteem, so I consciously and sub consciously started to back off whilst I watched what WGF did. She did not waiver in her attempts to love bomb me (for the record I believe this is genuine) but still refused to talk much detail about the affair, saying why go backwards, it’s in the past etc.
And we carried on this little tango of me dipping in and out of depression whilst WGF hoped it would all just go away if we waited it out.
Eventually at roughly 1 year post Dday I changed IC and this one advised me to put what I needed on the table and be prepared to walk. So I did
I ask for
NC (they still work together)
Find out why / how this happened
Deal with answers to above
No more lies past / present / future (including telling me anything I didn’t already know)
She failed in all 4, she had 3 IC sessions before dropping out, refused to quit work or even ask AP to quit work, and will not tell me anything I don’t know in case it hurts me more. She also vocalised she can’t live with these kind of questions for the rest of her life and just wants to forget it all ASAP.
So very amicably we agreed we can’t go forward. We agreed to separate. We lived this reality on our own for a few weeks before finally telling the children a couple of weeks ago. Since then it’s been a whirlwind of events including finding a new house for me and having my offer accepted, agreeing terms on the current house and telling our families (who did not know) within a couple of months from now I will move out and our new life’s without each other will begin but to the point of my post
This is very clearly not what she wants and as anyone who has read my ramblings before will know it is not what I want, but here we are
So today and for the last few months our house is calm and full of love, we speak to the mortgage company together, we watch a movie, we look at houses for me together, we go for lunch, I make an offer which is accepted, we cook a nice dinner together, we agree terms on current house, we take kids out to a restaurant. I think you see the picture.
Now I never initiated this course of action to manipulate WGF into doing the things I asked, it was as described above an agreement that we can’t progress without those things I asked for and she can’t progress if I don’t let it go. But I am shocked at the uncomfortable things that WGF has been willing to do that to me seem more uncomfortable than what I asked for. Exposing herself to kids and family was not easy.
She told the kids and took all the blame, she’s increased her hours to be able to afford things when I leave, she is signing up to a lonely life without me rather than finding a solution to NC. Our debts will increase from virtually zero to $$$$$$$ as we take on new mortgages each etc.
I feel I am being stubborn here too, but I know that when Covid subsides and they end up back within the same office and the office socials begin (which she says she cannot get out of) I won’t be okay so I stick to my course of action.
What am I witnessing here? we both clearly (to me) love each other very much but we are on our way to separation regardless.
Has anyone else been here before, had a WS that just couldn’t do what you needed and you had to separate even though if you took infidelity out of the equation your relationship would be / is considered idealic.
This post is not a last ditch attempt for me to try R again, for the reasons stated above I know there’s pain on the horizon if I don’t S. I’m just trying to understand what I’m witnessing from both WGF and myself. We can’t be the first to have trodden this path, is there a logical conclusion / destination to all this?
Has anybody else come through infidelity, separated from their spouse but still felt like their WS was their best friend?
For the record the last few weeks since telling the children, finding a house, telling in-laws etc have been the easiest weeks since all this started. I feel calm and at peace with myself now that I am no longer lying to my children and family, now that I am no longer hiding behind a fake smile. That smile on my face today is genuine, I am not happy about what happened or where we are headed but a huge weight has been lifted of my shoulders and I feel at peace for the first time in almost 2 years.
I think for WGF it’s the same deal, now that R is off the table I have no need to rehash old questions, I no longer ask her anything about her A we just talk about the kids, future plans, plans that neither of us want but this seems ultimately more palatable to her than the hard work of R.
FYI beyond the initial shock the kids have coped remarkably well, probably due to the fact there is zero animosity in the house and everything is happening relatively frictionless. Our parents are completely confused of course but coming to terms with it.
25 comments posted: Thursday, April 29th, 2021
IC recommended Esther
Just looking for thoughts. Currently In amicable IHS with STBXWGF in early stages of discussing separation agreement and telling kids.
It’s clear that neither of us want S but that neither of us are prepared for the hard work of R and WGF is unwilling to accept any of the consequences that come with it.
WGF has quite her IC after 3 sessions and said it was a waste of time.
My IC knows that I still love my WGF and last night suggested that I take separation off the agenda for a bit to see if I become okay without the NC I asked for, the issue that drove me to start the S discussion in the first place (AP is a colleague) She also suggested I read Ester Perrel
Is she suggesting I try to rugsweep? Or is there any value in listening to what she is saying?
59 comments posted: Wednesday, April 7th, 2021
Finally being honest
I’m only a couple of weeks into the start of separation and have a long way to go. But from my new slightly changed vantage point I realised something last night
Both WGF and I are finally being honest with each other. Not with respect to what she did, she’ll take many of those details to the grave with her and only 2 people will ever know what really happened.
No what I mean is that we’re both being honest about what we wanted all along and that is the “old relationship” with a few benefits of infidelity bolted on such as HB and date nights etc. Neither of us was really ever prepared to accept the long term consequences of her affair, the lost trust (in both directions) the “different kind of love” etc
It took us a while to get here, 15 months but we are being honest with each other that what we want we can’t have and therefore let’s change direction and separate.
She doesn’t like the consequences of S much either but she seems much more prepared to accept these than she was the consequences and work required for R so I think it’s for the best.
It’s kind of freeing, coming to this realisation, sad but freeing. I no longer need details, my concerns and anxieties have changed from one thing (her affair) to another (finances and the children) and these anxieties are easier to absorb and deal with.
I’m not naive and I’m sure there are some obstacles ahead of me but I’ve found a little bit of peace to collect myself, the eye of the storm maybe?
What is interesting though, is that in talking about S it is very clear that even during the A she had absolutely no plans on what she wanted, she has no fixed ideas on where she wants to live, what her life looks like post S, no real ideas on coparenting etc. I’d always thought this was an exit A but i’m now starting to believe this was an MLC / cake eating A.
[This message edited by TwoDozen at 5:02 AM, April 1st (Thursday)]
14 comments posted: Thursday, April 1st, 2021
Moving to IHS (once kids are told) so need to draft an amicable agreement regarding what happens during and after this time. As we are not married we don’t have any legal ties other than house and children so we will be using a period of approximately 6 months to deal with those before selling the house.
Just interested if anybody has any suggested separation agreement clauses or complete agreements that I should consider including.
This should be a fair agreement for both WGF and BBF with everything being split 50/50. I am not interested in coming out with more because I am the betrayed. I just want 50% of the assets and most importantly 50% of the time with the children.
[This message edited by TwoDozen at 4:44 AM, March 31st (Wednesday)]
5 comments posted: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021
Telling the children
I am looking for age appropriate scrips for telling the children that mum and dad are separating and the reason why
WGF wants to go down the mum and dad don’t love each other anymore route but I am adamant they need an appropriate version of the truth and not to lie to them.
Besides I haven't fallen out of love with WGF and neither (to my knowledge) has she fallen out of love with me. We are just not cut out for the hard work of R and as someone on here has in their signature love is not a measure of how much pain one person is willing to endure.
All the children are all old enough to know what cheating is but have zero 1st hand experience of it. The youngest is 15 and the eldest is a young adult. All still live at home and are not self sufficient.
Separating will include selling the family home and therefore the children will be moving between mum and dads new abodes. This will likely entail sharing rooms with their younger / older siblings and generally a less comfortable existence than they currently enjoy.
Having personally been through a year + of something akin to depression myself and now witnessing WGF going through all the same stages I went through last year, it would be naive of me to think that the kids won’t experience something similar so I need to tell them but also somehow sugar coat it at the same time so they don’t go off the rails.
Ideas or suggestions?
[This message edited by TwoDozen at 10:58 AM, March 25th (Thursday)]
26 comments posted: Thursday, March 25th, 2021
Throwing in the towel
Just a quick post to say that after several exhausting weeks WGF and I have agreed to throw in the towel and I will be moving forward with S.
I won’t post all details just yet but essentially after almost one and a half years of me driving the R bus (call it a pick me dance if you must) I asked WGF to take her turn at the wheel and she wasn’t able to.
It seems that I wanted R more than she did or more accurately I was prepared for the hard work and consequences more than she was.
Trying under these conditions is physically and mentally exhausting (on both of us) and ultimately we could not agree on the end goal (reality vs denial) or steps to take us there
Whilst I called it quits and she reluctantly agreed that it’s for the best, I am in the unenviable situation of still being very much in love with my STBXWGF (had hoped i would never use that one) and I do believe vice versa so it’s going to be a difficult situation for me to navigate my way through.
However I am committed to this course of action as I have seen almost zero efforts to move out of a wayward mindset.
I gave her the guidebook 10 months ago and she has ignore or discounted every single piece of advice within it because “we are special” and “we are soul mates” and whilst I agree with both those sentiments there was nothing special about her PA and each and every thing she did to hide it from me and therefore we don’t get a pass.
I am not a quitter but I am smart enough to know when the odds are stacked against me and we have been locked into a zero sum game now for too long whereby we are only able to exchange our own pain for each others. We have taken almost no steps to offload any of that pain so that it’s unburdens the two of us.
Pre A I would have said like many do that I’m a dealbreaker guy, maybe that is what has happened. But since dday 1 I have been pro R and under the right circumstances I would still advocate for R if both parties are willing to do the work. Sadly that is not us
I’d like to take this opportunity to thank all the posters who took time to help me on my journey, it has ended as some of you predicted but I am glad that I tried, proud of myself for how far I have come since the trauma of dday and the ensuing fog that followed.
WGF is not a bad person, she made some terrible choices and unfortunately has not matured to own those choices and accept the consequences.
We are as of my writing this still “best freinds” and we have not told anyone IRL as we decide when and how to tell our children and our families about the battle we have been fighting. I thought for a very long time we were fighting on the same side, but sadly it appears that is not the case.
I will come back I’m sure to ask for advice of telling children, separating finances, building myself up for the big wide world without my “wingwoman”
I have learned many things on this journey but still have so much to learn. I have done many things wrong but I have stuck to my principles and my code of conduct and I can hold my head up high.
I do not know what tomorrow will bring, their was a time when my future was so clear to me. That came crashing down in Dec 2019 and I have yet to decide what the alternate future will look like. I will start small, take some time for myself, plan some trips with friends, focus on the kids, and see where that takes me.
Heartbroken - 2D
[This message edited by TwoDozen at 9:14 AM, March 18th (Thursday)]
16 comments posted: Thursday, March 18th, 2021
IC for WS expectations
So my WGF has her 1st session of IC this week. And I want to kinda prepare myself for what I might see afterwards and in the coming weeks.
N.b this is also my IC, the same IC who in only a matter of weeks has taken me from passively waiting for WGF to “get it” and do “the work” to me telling WGF what my needs are to consider continuing with R. The 1st of those needs was IC for her.
My fear is telling me that WGF will attempt to convince the IC that this was my fault. I don’t think IC will accept that but it could be a battle of wills for a while if she keeps up the sessions.
I’m conscious that she hates herself over this and her self defence will kick in if the sessions become too tough.
So what can I expect in the first weeks of IC can I expect anything positive from a single session or should I be actually be preparing for a step backwards at the start?
55 comments posted: Tuesday, February 23rd, 2021
To those trying R or who have Rd, How often does your WS apologise for what they did? What do those apologies look like? When did they start? How far out are you?
14 comments posted: Friday, February 19th, 2021
Do you discuss your IC sessions with your SO?
Just wondering what’s the general consensus here about sharing what was discussed in your IC sessions
I am in IC (mostly talk therapy) but my WGF is not. She does ask how my session went and if I want to talk about it which I usually do 1 or 2 days after the session. Generally tiptoes around me a couple of days wondering what we talked about.
Honesty is my thing, always has been, so why not tell her what we discussed.
I have no secrets from her except .....
The one thing I keep to myself, SI and even that pains me, but at least here I can really vent and get sh*t off my chest.
12 comments posted: Friday, January 8th, 2021
Why am I here?
I’m just over a year out from Dday, and I still can’t believe how much pain (qty not amplitude) that infidelity causes for me in particular. It’s literally the 1st thing I think of when I wake up, occupies my mind all day and it’s the last thing im thinking as I drift off to sleep, which invariably means that my dreams are all infidelity themed too. Sometimes it’s WGF & AP, sometimes it me with some random person my dreams have invented or maybe someone I actually know, other times it’s dreams about running, falling, suffocating but they all started after her A.
Anyway, as mentioned in other posts, although I hadn’t connected the dots beforehand I am literally surrounded by As. On WGF side it’s every woman in her FOO, her sister, her mother, her grandmother, her grandmothers 3 sisters all had As
On my side it’s my father, and every single one of my uncles. Not so far either me or my brother.
In all of the cases above (except my parents) they are all still together, some as many as 60 years later, and they all did this without SI, without IC, without books, without “talking about it” and have as far as I can see “successfully rugswept” some even had an OC to deal with.
Now here I am, and from what I can observe actually in a better position than most of the above scenarios, there was only one A, it was short lived, and we have without a doubt the best relationship of any of the couples given in my examples above.
So why me, why am I here, reading, going to IC..... what’s different about me compared to all the other males in WGF FOO who just accepted it, moved on. And all the other males in my FOO who are the cheaters.
I asked my IC this, told him I don’t understand and he just said, stop that now, you will never understand something that isn’t within your moral compass and you never will. You will never find an answer that satisfies your ethics and therefore you will never stop searching so you just have to accept it.
So how do I get beyond that, if I can’t understand it, how do I forgive it, how do I accept it.
And just to finish, there is a astrology problem known as the “Fermi Paradox” which posits that with so many likely places in the universe that could harbour life, and with life starting so quickly here on Earth, there should be millions if not billions of other intelligent lifeforms in the universe so “where is everybody”
In the same vein I read that 60% of males cheat and 40% of females cheat, so if my maths is correct that could be every couple on the planet is / has been / will be affected by infidelity. So where are they? Yes there are new joiners on SI everyday but nothing like what the numbers would indicate for the US alone.
Which brings me neatly back to my question, what is it about me, and the other betrayed spouses on this site that means we don’t “just get over it” when evidence suggests that many more do than don’t.
21 comments posted: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021
For now let’s just call It plan B, because both SI and my IC tell me I need one. But also because........ infidelity sucks
So I’m looking for a blueprint of all the things to consider in advance of calling it a day, that could be today, tomorrow, next month or never.
For the record I’m in the U.K., we are not married and we have kids in education. Joint accounts and individual accounts but we treat everything as “ours”
Home is jointly owned and residual mortgage is in both names.
Is there a standard blueprint for Plan B? Not just the financial stuff but also the legal stuff and the moving on with your life stuff.
If it came to pass that either I or WGF called time on R I think it could be done amicably without courts being involved but forwarned is forearmed I guess.
There would certainly be a period of continuing to live together, especially with Covid
5 comments posted: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021
Thank you and Happy New Year
Just wanted to post a short message to all the good people of SI that have supported me in the 6 months or so since I regrettably needed to find kindred folk
This truly is a place of great support and wisdom and kindness I have received from “internet strangers” has helped me through the most difficult thing I have ever faced in my life
Special mention to my SI aunts, uncles, brothers and sisters who have been kind enough to spend their time to guide me through this trauma in the DMs
For those new BS reading this, sorry you are here, it’s sucks. But you will get better, it won’t be the future you always envisioned but it won’t hurt like it does right now forever. For now just focus on eating, sleeping and exercising, the rest will come.
Wishing everybody a happy new year and better times in 2021
1 comment posted: Thursday, December 31st, 2020