SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Background: WH and AP and OBS all worked together during the A. PA began in 2017 and ended in 2019 AP and OBS have divorced (as have we) but all three of them still work together. I have moved away but WH and I are still pretty close friends and frequently talk. Whether we will R remains unseen - but does not seem likely due to geography and my unwillingness to commit to much more than what we have now.

WH's work, aside from a pretty high govt security clearance, also has very strict medical clearances meaning a lot of things can make it so you can't work his job (anti-depressants are a no-go for example as are high blood pressure meds without 6 month checkups). I had forgotten, a few months back, WH told me that AP was out on medical leave - that she had been having some kind of balance issues or something, but I didn't think much of the medical issue due to his work being so strict about when people can work and when they cannot as things don't have to be medically "serious" to preclude you from being able to work. At his/their work if someone is gone/out it affects the whole schedule - people have to shift around to be sure things are covered - for safety reasons, so it is not odd that he knows. Also, there, everyone is waaaaaaay into everyone else's business due to their close quarters/tight schedules so people have been talking about APs absence being somewhat serious (which is why when the A came to light it was a major topic).

The first weird thought: I can hardly believe it but I FORGOT AP hadn't been working with WH for the last 2 (maybe 3) months - until he mentioned her medical problems last night. I haven't given it a thought since he told me back in May or April??? Not going to lie, it feels pretty awesome to not care about that at all anymore. Years ago I would have been so happy she wasn't there - it would have been such a relief - but now I forgot??? Crazy.

So WH and I are talking on the phone last night and he is talking about how bad the schedule has been lately and how they are short-staffed and sees no relief: someone recently retired, one of their trainees after 2 years in the training pipeline didn't pass, someone else is trying to transfer out and thinks they will be approved, and AP and another co-worker are still out on medical and it sounds like neither of them may never be able to come back. In AP's case, apparently she is faced with some sort of brain tumor which has caused brain hemorrhaging, a stroke, and may also be cancerous and it appears that operating on it may not be possible. WH heard this from several people at work and knows no other details aside from the general gossip-rumor mill.

AP is roughly 35 and has a young son and is still single (as in not married - rumor mill is that she is seeing someone else, not that it matters except maybe she has some support while going through this).

Second weird thought: Upon WH telling me this, my first thought was: Good.

The moment after I think that I immediately felt a big pang of "Ugh." Good??? That is not the person I am. I am very empathetic normally, almost to a fault, and while in the midst of all the infidelity madness I often fantasized that she would be abducted by aliens or become a nun and move to South America or something, I never ever fantasized that something bad - really bad - would happen to her. That just isn't who I am, yet my first thought is some sort of happiness that something really bad has come her way made me feel almost instantly sick to my stomach. What. The. Actual. Fuck.

I didn't say a word about my mental reaction and instead asked my WH how that made him feel. His reaction was "I would not wish that on anyone, but I don't feel any desire to reach out, and haven't spent much time thinking about it, other than I hope she recovers as I certainly don't wish anyone dead." So in this case my WH's reaction, at least to me, is the more appropriate one. I guess I am just immensely disappointed with myself for such a reaction, because it was so pure, so instant - I can't ignore that part of me - this vindictive part that is happy that someone may be dying because they were involved in hurting me.

Really aside from talking to people on this site, I rarely ever even give her a passing thought. I really do believe that my WH was the problem for our relationship - his choices, his decisions - and that she could have been anyone (some about which he also agrees) and aside from her harassment of me at the end (which really amounted to some mind-numbingly ridiculous messages and a few drunk phone calls, which were all about her anyway) she was a nobody or an anybody. Yet for a moment, I mentally celebrated what can only be categorized as a very serious life-threatening medical condition.

I know this is nothing other than a very shameful gut reaction. I am not harboring something deeper. It's just a weird feeling to know I can think something like that. This morning I woke up feeling a bit bad for her - for her son. It would be horrible to have such a thing happen to you - to feel so out of control. I would not wish such things on anyone. So, in other words, I feel more like me today.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 5:12 PM, Sunday, August 6th]

Your lizard brain still sees her as a threat. Your logical brain knows better. So there was a momentary blip from the lizard brain that rose to the surface. That’s okay. It’s okay because its job is to be looking for threats- it’s doing its job and doing it right. And then your logical brain recognized that there is no threat anymore and that as bad a person as she is, that’s a terrible diagnosis and prognosis. And your lizard brain receded back to its place in the background.

And your natural empathy and kindness recognized all that- not broken at all.

Like you said, nothing to be concerned about. A natural reaction to a long series of events that deeply affected you.
Sounds like all systems are operating properly. :-)

I have a hard time imagining any other reaction to learning that the ap has a problem. I'm way farther out than you are, and I expect my response would be the same.

For the almost total part, ow is a non-entity to me. Sometimes, like this moment, something on SI brings her to mind. My first reaction is always antagonism. Then I remember the better off she is, the less likely she is to surface. Except ... if she's dead, she can't resurface.

I believe our thoughts can alter reality, so thinking about her death isn't something I like to do. But aps are so integral to creating our pain, I don't see any way out of thinking some nasty thoughts unless one is some sort of saint.

Your lizard brain still sees her as a threat. Your logical brain knows better.

The thing that bothers me is I don't think any part of me still sees her as a threat. Not because she couldn't resurface in WH's life - she could. It's more because I don't feel like that would really hurt me unless he tried lying about it first - and even then, I think I really am at a place where her resurfacing in any capacity, nevertheless in a bundle of lies would hurt much at all in regards to her. The hurt would come from him lying. I think if I discovered he were seeing anyone else, her included, BUT lying about it would be the problem. We are not exclusive, although WH says he would tell me if he was going to see anyone else and I would do the same - neither of us have to my knowledge. I certainly haven't. So it would be the lie that would be the game ending insta-deletion from the contacts list. The fact that it was her would just be the icing on the cake so to speak.

My reaction, I'm sure of it, was purely vindictive, as in "Ha - you fucked with me and now karma is back to get you." Had she been fired or something I likely would be okay with the whole karma-reaction thing (which as an aside, I don't believe in, I see the whole karma idea as nice of a thought to keep people honest but I don't really believe it exists as some sort of weird force lingering somewhere out there at all). I'm fine with feeling vindictive enough to hope something "bad" happens to her, just not this kind of bad. I recall feeling very satisfied that OBS eventually divorced her, although I suspect it was likely a mutual decision because she was convinced she was not happy in their marriage basically from the get go - and maybe she wasn't. Regardless, OBS is a super nice person, and I was glad he was rid of her so he could find someone decent down the road, purely because my (admittedly limited understanding of their situation based on my few conversations with him and AP's contact with me) was that she was not even willing to accepts she was the problem nevertheless work on herself. I was also happy that it all blew up and everyone stopped putting her on the pedestal at the work place (she was Ms. Popular and post A blow up, especially since she and OBS divorced, I think she has been given the cold shoulder much like my WH has in terms of socializing with work people like they all use to). I was fine with that level of "you got what you deserved" as it did seem appropriate, and (as a pat on the back to myself) precisely what I predicted would happen to both her and my WH upon discovery so many years ago.

It's just that I never ever thought I would celebrate something like this, even for a moment. It's just disappointing, and maybe - maybe it's a cut to the "high road" I have prided myself for taking all this time. I didn't report them and get she and my WH fired, when I had enoug evidence to do so in spades. I didn't even disparage her much during the worst times of the A - the most that happened was when she contacted me and told me I was to blame for ruining her child's life by outing the A to the OBS, I recall going on a 5-10 minute uninterrupted rant about how it baffled me that he could ever find such a self-centered bat-shit crazy moron attractive in any shape or form, and then return to her after she proved herself to be just that. I didn't do the whole "whore" thing (he never paid her - she's not a whore) or other negative name calling thing as it seems so childish to me - like stooping to their level. I had no interest in going there as the problem in my mind was my WH, totally - 100%. I still feel that way, completely. It's not some mind game that I play with myself - I really believe that - which is why my initial reaction was so...disappointing, to me.

I'm thinking about telling my WH about this reaction, just because it seems the honest thing to do, and because it's bugging me and he really is the only person (aside from y'all) that might get why this is bugging me on a deeper level. IDK why, but I'm thinking about it.

But maybe it's just this:

I believe our thoughts can alter reality, so thinking about her death isn't something I like to do. But aps are so integral to creating our pain, I don't see any way out of thinking some nasty thoughts unless one is some sort of saint.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 4:34 PM, Thursday, August 10th]

Second weird thought: Upon WH telling me this, my first thought was: Good.

It would have been dishonest to feel any other way, frankly. Never underestimate the depth of betrayal involved here. People kill other people all the time for similar.

Your "good" and the honest feeling behind it makes it that much greater an accomplishment that you didn't give her a nudge off the cliff, so to speak. That the rational ruled the heart. But the heart does its own opinion.

Sending strength!

You had a very normal reaction. You are a good empathetic person that was betrayed by someone. I do not wish any harm on AP but if somehow I learned of some misery in his life I would probably feel the same way. I agree that the lizard brain reacted first and your rational brain said no. I'm thankful we have that protection, its like a pilot getting a warning light, we have to figure out is it a real emergency or a bad reading.

Duplicate post

[This message edited by Tanner at 1:03 AM, Monday, August 7th]

This is a good quote, your post made me dig it out.

...Have you ever had occasion to suspend judging a person that you normally judge automatically? I mean to suspend all judgments, good and bad, and therefore the emotional reactions and dispositions that go with them? If you have, you probably noticed that, although the person in front of you hasn’t changed, your perception of them has — dramatically.

ThisIs SoLonely
Your initial reaction was completely normal. Unless you are a saint, i don’t know how you can not feel a bit of satisfaction (?) in seeing Karma do the work. And your emotions that followed your initial ones, demonstrate your true character: someone who is compassionate and good.
The AP caused you a lot of emotional pain and harm. Yes, your WH was 100% to blame but AP played an integral part.

Please be kind to yourself. Speaking from my experience, the AP is a person who helped commit one of the biggest "crimes" against me. She is someone who snuck into my life behind my back and helped my husband destroy my happy home and life. I spent a long time struggling with the "pray for her" idea. I finally turned it into "I pray she does better"

I recently had some AP news sneak into my life as well. I have struggled with how I feel about it, but ultimately, I'm trying to put it away and not think about it.

Remember, thoughts are like clouds -- they constantly fly through our mind, but only when we take the time to notice them do they catch our attention. Let this thought go and try not to bother yourself too much about it. I think your reaction is normal, noting it and letting it go is so healthy.

Perhaps I'm cold, but I don't see a problem with your response. As social animals, we tend to have a deep-rooted sense of justice and fairness. This person had a hand in blowing up your life (as did your XH). You did nothing to deserve this violation, and it would be totally natural for you to feel like she has earned some kind of retribution as a result. Now, you can't--nor arguably should you want to--try to control that retribution. You just know that it's earned.
Your first thought may not have literally been "Good." It may simply have been "...finally." As in, Karma has finally caught up to her.
You also don't need to worry about feeling any shame for a biochemical response. She damaged you deeply. You did not have any hand in her illness, but it would be totally normal for you to not feel any special empathy or sympathy for such a vile person. Doesn't mean you wanted it to happen. That being said, empathy for her young son is likely something you would be feeling right now. And that's what emotionally healthy people would feel at a time like this.
At any rate, be kind to your self. You are doing incredibly well.

I admit to having an initial warm fuzzy feeling of quiet satisfaction when I learned WW's AP had died from prostate cancer albeit almost 17 years ago This was an aggressive form of the cancer, which if treated would have necessarily entailed either chemical or surgical castration: my first thought on receiving this piece of news was that karma may often be late to the party, but she certainly has a wicked sense of humor. According to WW who had remained in casual written contact with her xAP,the serial philanderer who was the biological father of my first born son, AP chose not to seek treatment. Who knows why, but the obituary i found online was replete with nauseating testimonials to his religiosity and virtue signaling of his " good deeds" in public service. Too bad it omitted details of his multiple affairs and the devastation be brought upon his own family and the havoc and pain he caused in so many other people's lives.
With the passage of time, now exactly one year since WW confessed to her LTA with this very flawed man, my feelings have mellowed considerably and I see a man who in his dying process took responsibility for his awful deeds. I still feel lingering contempt for him, but he doesn't burn a hole in my mind or contaminate my soul any more.

When I read this, I thought "Good", as well on your behalf

If you didn’t have that reaction, I’d think it was weird and some strange codependent holier than thou white knuckle sublimation messaging.

Kind of like when I read BS sayingeverything is sooo much better after my spouse cheated. 😬 I’m like, yeaaaaaaaaahhhh right. Kind of like how everyone loves kale. Or enjoys a good colonoscopy.

"Kind of like when I read BS sayingeverything is sooo much better after my spouse cheated. 😬 I’m like, yeaaaaaaaaahhhh right. Kind of like how everyone loves kale. Or enjoys a good colonoscopy."

The AP in my situation has a weird and terminal condition. She had hip replacement, and the appliance is leaking cobalt into her body. It has invaded her heart, kidneys, liver, etc. They told her it’s just a matter of time.

It’s just sad.

I have spoken to her and she expressed remorse and asked forgiveness. It was in that moment that I realized how much stronger I am than she is. She will die with my having forgiven her, but she will carry her guilt with her having betrayed her friend.

Well, even five years out, still married and happy, I had the same thought FOR you when reading this post, a complete stranger. Made me a bit happy to hear of Karma in action. And yes, I realize the BS of the woman my husband chose to shag may feel the same glee if he were to get ill. I wouldn’t blame him. 🤷‍♀️ and I am an empathetic person too, but we all have our limits.

The thing that bothers me is I don't think any part of me still sees her as a threat.

Even though AP doesn't feel like a threat anymore, I think BearlyBreathing is probably right. I don't think H's AP is a threat at all anymore, but I still fixate on her, creeping online and competing with her in my head. I'm in IC and working on getting her out of my fucking brain, and IC said that it's normal to do this with something/someone that threatened our security at one time.

H's AP has fibromyalgia and my thought when I found out was "Serves your ass right. Suffer, bitch." And then I felt sorry for her. I think your reaction was normal.

Thanks all - I did mention this to my WH when we talked recently as IDK - we are not "together" but it felt weird holding that in as we are working on our friendship and as I mentioned before, it felt like this site and him were the only places I felt like I could even discuss that and not feel weird about it. His response was much like all of yours: he didn't think I would have a party or anything but he didn't think it was weird to have that initial gut reaction either. Honestly, I do not want her to die, so I'm hoping that she is able to recover somehow.

WH’s AP tormented us, stalked us, drove by our house night and day, parked in the public park across from our house for hours watching us - watching our son play on the swings or while he was riding his bike or skateboarding. She was a moronic individual who went absolutely bat shit crazy when WH went NC. She was delusional and truly thought he was going to D me and marry her. She had the whole escape plan hatched - he and I were separated, he filed. Then she separated from OBS and was going to file. They were going to D us and run off into the sunset, get a cute little house with a white picket fence, he’d be full time step daddy to her two little girls, and she’d be part time step mom to our son. Well that didn’t happen and as soon as we decided to reconcile - I demanded NC, change phone numbers, delete SM. She went NUTS trying to contact him. She just lost her shit. I would go to the store and run into her "accidentally" - except it was no accident. I was hospitalized for 5 days for asthma exacerbation- on the day I was discharged, while I was being wheeled out and WH was getting our truck - guess who’s freaking car I see in the parking lot with her inside watching me, watching us. It took us selling our home - taking a loss - and moving 2000 miles away from this psycho. He went to HS with her. So inevitably someone we know knows her and I’d hear bits and pieces about her life. I didn’t care one bit. But the day I heard OBS kicked her out, filed for D and filed for 100% custody I was ecstatic. When I heard her D was final I was HAPPY. I thought GOOD he’s finally had enough of her cheating. When I found out OBS was getting remarried to a beautiful woman I was HAPPY. When I heard she was dating a much younger guy, I thought good luck to that guy. Then I heard he dumped her and thought YEP. Serves you right! She infiltrated every bit of my life - by following us, stalking us, never just going away. So yea - there were days I wished she were dead. I wished some horrible disease would afflict her. I wished that because of how much mental stress I was put through. I couldn’t even take out the trash without looking up and down the neighborhood streets to see if she was parked somewhere spying on us. I felt no guilt or remorse for wishing bad on her. I still don’t. That’s how raw it still is. She tormented our family to the point my son would ask if all the doors were locked because he didn’t want the "crazy lady" to break in and murder us all in our sleep. There was a time where I truly thought she was capable of doing that. I still get a touch of anxiety when I see a car that is the same as her make and model. She was an absolutely horrible human being who had no remorse over the part she played in hurting my family. My anger isn’t misdirected either - I had plenty to go around. WH was put through the wringer with the level of my anger. She was culpable in orchestrating a plan where he would hire the D attorney, how and when he was going to leave me and move out, had dates and a timeline prepared. I have emails and texts demanding that he move this D along faster - demanding that he treat me like a POS. Oh she was good I’ll give her that. He let her dictate everything and allowed himself to be used - so yea I can’t stand the bitch. And if she got hit by a bus tomorrow I would not care one bit. I guess I need to work on abating this anger a bit more huh!?

[This message edited by Blackbird25 at 8:04 PM, Wednesday, August 9th]

Your lizard brain still sees her as a threat. Your logical brain knows better.

I also am a firm believer that it just a natural response to have that thought.

Hell early on in our R, my H was breaking NC, she contacted him. He said he HAD to talk to her she had a health scare, a bad mammogram. I remember this as clear as if it happened yesterday, I said " Good I hope her tits turn black and fall off". I too am an empath, so very out of character. The reason I remember it is how flabbergasted my H was at me saying that.

It's ok. I mean it sucks for her, but Not your circus, not your monkeys anymore. Nothing to see here, move along. Be kind to the most important person in your life.... YOU.