SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

All of it seems to center around letting each other know what your needs are and meeting those needs for each other.

I had a lot of unmet needs, for a very long time, and it didn't make me cheat. The literature made me feel very guilty in the beginning that it had crossed my mind to have an EA, but there is a very big difference between something crossing your mind, thinking to yourself, let me do what I can to "affair proof" my marriage until we can work things out--and thinking to yourself, step by step, well I need to see myself as a good person so I am going to change the rules without my spouse's knowledge to allow me to get some adolescent thrills, and throughout the whole process changing those rules again and again to make yourself feel better until finally you're breaking even your own bizarre rules.

And why should I be under any compunction to try to meet the needs of someone who did not care about my needs at all but made sure he got his needs met elsewhere? And why should I trust him to start meeting my needs when he never has before? I think when you read the reconciliation literature it is all based on the idea that, thank goodness you cheated! Now we realize what our problems are and our marriage is going to become stronger than ever.

The problem with that mindset is the idea that "we" have problems.

*I* don't have a problem. I don't have a problem of cowardice, I don't have a problem of low morals, I don't have a problem of poor character, and I don't have a problem staying faithful. My SPOUSE has a problem. And when I look back on other of his behaviors throughout our relationship, I see he has had these problems for a very long time.

The only problem I have is that I am miserable, and why should I think the answer to that is a reconciliation that makes me take stock of how *I* have disappointed *him*? He is the one who is a real disappointment here, and should be to both me AND himself.

What I AM going to take stock of is what can I do to build a happy life for myself. I hope he works on himself, I really do because I love him and wish him the best, but ultimately if I find that he has very little to add to my life in terms of mature and respectful and biblically loving relationship, instead of just financial support and "leadership", I really am going to try to move on with no hard feelings on my part anyway.

Some people are just morally weak, my last husband was that way too, and I love him as well. It is very sad to see someone you care about deteriorating. But I was not in love with him and I am quickly falling out of love with my current husband as well.

I one million percent agree with everything you've written! I've spent my whole life being a good person but I don't get a gold star or pat on the back for that... However if I'd spent my life being a weak shitty person and then after being caught out, decided I want to be a good person, I'd most likely be rewarded with lots of praise & pats on the back! Go figure 🙄 xx

All of it seems to center around letting each other know what your needs are and meeting those needs for each other.

That's not affair recovery literature, in my opinion.

You are 100% accurate that the unmet needs approach is not applicable or helpful.

I would lay that junk down and walk away from it.

While it's great discuss needs and work to meet a partner's needs, when the relationship is on healthier footing, that work is not the same as reconciliation after an affair.

My sense is that reconciliation literature that pushes the unmet needs fallacy is a side effect of the human desire for control over things that are ultimately beyond our control. We all want to believe that if we’re a solid, contributing, good faith partner in a healthy relationship, we can "affair proof" our marriage. The flip side of that is looking at couples that experience infidelity and insisting that there must have been something wrong with their relationship that caused the affair—needs that weren’t being met that could have been met.

In my first ever post here, I talked about being blindsided by an affair because our marriage had been good. I vividly remember a poster telling me emphatically that I was deceiving myself; that our relationship couldn’t have been good if my husband cheated on me. Fortunately other people stepped in and said no, that affairs happen in good marriages. I’m forever grateful to them.

The thing is, for a time I WANTED to look back and see problems. I wanted to figure out what I had done wrong, because if I could fix that—I’d I could meet the unmet needs, be a more perfect, more supportive, better, more sexy, more successful wife, then I could keep my husband from cheating, right? I would have control.

But I don’t have control over our marriage or over whether my husband cheats. I can’t unilaterally affair proof our marriage. I can for damn sure keep myself from cheating, and I can do my level best to create and invest in a healthy, satisfying relationship. I can also remove myself from the relationship if my husband isn’t affair proofing things and investing in the relationship from his side. But I can’t control the choices he makes.

Everyone has unmet needs. The best marriage in the world isn’t going to meet all your needs. A good marriage meets many/most needs and is marked by mutual give and take. That’s worth striving for, in my opinion. Cheating is a separate issue.

That's like going to the ER with a severed artery and the doc focusing on your high cholesterol.

When I was first at SI, no one recommended IC before MC. Over the years, I suppose due to hive experience and wisdom, it changed. Now the guidance is for IC first, especially for the WS, and then, once the WS has taken ownership and figured out what made them betray, MC can come into play. That's solid advice, IMO.

Also, high five for focusing on yourself first. Kudos.

When DDay1 happened I bought a course from "The Marriage Foundation" which ended up being the worst possible thing I could have looked at. I was told that marriage is all about unconditional love and if your wife is cheating it was likely because of something the husband did and I need to do everything I can to show her I love her. I was in a traumatizing pick me dance. Eventually broke out of that. Do not give that foundation or the founder any money.

Are there any books that focus on the lack of character the wayward spouse is obviously displaying by having an affair? That would be an affair-recovery book I might get behind.

My first reaction was: That's not SI's usual message!

But not everyone sees SI. First, they have to remember that the web offers a lot of potential resources. Then they have to use a search argument that will pull up SI. Then they have to click on SI and start reading.

It took me 2 months to realize the web might help me, and it was good support from our MC that made me think of the web. What I saw in 2011 was a lot of sites that wanted to sell me easy programs for reconciling at a time when I wasn't sure R was even possible. Those web sites assumed I could control the outcome!

I don't know the state of the web now. If I were a new BS who searched the web for 'infidelity forum' today, it looks like I'd get to SI pretty quickly. But there aren't that many of us (compared to the number of BSes in total), so lots of BSes just don't get here.

If they're lucky, they'll get to NOT "Just Friends", but yeah, too many people think As are about unmet needs or that the M had problems, and the web makes it too easy to publish that crap and gain customers....

*****

Well, actually As probably ARE about unmet needs - WSes just don't recognize that they need to satisfy their own needs for validation....

I agree with your observation. My sense is that both literature and therapist have a flawed model for 1. Understanding the WS thought processes as being at the core of the A and 2. Assuming a flaw in the M that creates moral equivalency in the A (eg your WS spouse has an unmet need that you were supposed to solution).

We did MC first and I'll say that it was structurally flawed. She recommend these odd books. I read them, watched my WW avd realized that something in the model was wrong.

SI had the most coherent models for how to assess the issue. This place is really impressive in its increasing clarity into the complexity of an A, the flawed thought processes of the WS and the path to R or D.

I think the forums haven't fully assessed the effect of attachment patterns in how the BS should evaluate D.

And why should I be under any compunction to try to meet the needs of someone who did not care about my needs at all but made sure he got his needs met elsewhere?

I think this is one of the biggest pills for a BS to swallow if they decide to try to R. This is because, IF you want to continue in your relationship with your WS, it is still that, a relationship - not a one-way street. You are indeed going to have to choke down that knowledge - you are proceeding with someone who, for a time, didn't give a shit about your needs and only cared about their own. This a the big one I think - for me. My WH and I are R'ing our friendship, but the romantic relationship - the whole marriage package, that remains to be seen if I can ever get there.

But IDK what the books are saying (I didn't read much R-related literature that wasn't directed at my own trauma or his issues), but to the extent you have to swallow a lot of that history to truly R, you do if you want things to work out, as in the long run, meeting each others needs in marriage is part of the deal I think.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 5:20 PM, Friday, August 4th]

Sounds like garbage from Esther Perel. The unmet needs fallacy is exactly that... a fallacy. I had unmet needs way before my xWS claimed his needs were unmet due to our lackluster sex. He couldn't possibly think it was ever himself that contributed to that I mean not being there for me, helping with the kids and coming home late every night I was supposed to jump up and down to have sex with him

Reconciliation only works if the WS does the work to figure out why they debased themselves and the M over whatever unmet need they thought they had and projected onto the BS. Why couldn't they discuss it with the BS before embarking on the A or even why they couldn't D before having the A.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 5:23 PM, Friday, August 4th]

SadieMae:

Are there any books that focus on the lack of character the wayward spouse is obviously displaying by having an affair? That would be an affair-recovery book I might get behind.

There is such a book. PM me if you want the title.

This is because, IF you want to continue in your relationship with your WS, it is still that, a relationship - not a one-way street. You are indeed going to have to choke down that knowledge - you are proceeding with someone who, for a time, didn't give a shit about your needs and only cared about their own.

And this is why reconciliation often just adds to the shit sandwich we're all supposed to eat.LACGAL

It's why it called the shit sandwich.

There's no way out except to swallow.

Whether your path be divorce or reconciliation the path is ..shitty. It requires cleaning.

Many many therapists got their accreditation from The University Of Rugschaweeping, and what is taught there is peddled by many authors. It is a no-good, very bad college. Don't send your kids there!

Yes!

Thank you all so much for the insightful replies!

Grieving, you are so absolutely right about all of this reconciliation literature being about control in my opinion.

Why would I want to police everything my spouse does, make him give up a million things to show me he is being "transparent", create a whole bunch of new rules he has to satisfy to make me feel "safe", etc? Good night! Don't I want to know whether or not he is capable of having a normal life and being faithful? Don't I want to know if he learned absolutely nothing from what he did and is repeating it? If I try so hard to control this situation, how does he ever learn to independently be a good person again? I love him very much, whether we stay together or not, and I want him to learn to be a good person for himself.

And if I couldn't control his behavior in the first place, what makes me think I could control it now? And furthermore, since he did NOT cheat BECAUSE I am not smart enough, sexy enough, intelligent enough, stimulating enough...why should I feel threatened in any way if he talks to other smart, sexy, intelligent, and stimulating people? If he lacks the character to interact with people who have perhaps even SOME superior qualities to me without being a lying cheat, that sounds like a personal problem to me, one I would rather know about sooner rather than later! I know for a fact that I am all of those things, but certainly not the one person on the planet who possesses them to a greater extent than everyone else on the planet. I don't think it is a low self-esteem to admit that, and I don't think that never meeting someone who is either a little smarter, OR a little sexier, OR a little more intelligent, OR a little more stimulating is a requirement of being faithful.

If you are not happy with your spouse, and think you might be able to find better, get a divorce, free your spouse up for a person who will think they are amazing, and go out there and find it! Don't be a cake eater!

[This message edited by 2ndFiddle at 12:34 AM, Sunday, August 6th]

*I* don't have a problem. I don't have a problem of cowardice, I don't have a problem of low morals, I don't have a problem of poor character, and I don't have a problem staying faithful. My SPOUSE has a problem. And when I look back on other of his behaviors throughout our relationship, I see he has had these problems for a very long time.

This was exactly the same for me. I can see, in retrospect, that my STBXH basically did what he wanted and if he thought I might not like it, he just wouldn't tell me.

The thing is, for a time I WANTED to look back and see problems. I wanted to figure out what I had done wrong, because if I could fix that—I’d I could meet the unmet needs, be a more perfect, more supportive, better, more sexy, more successful wife, then I could keep my husband from cheating, right? I would have control.

You again hit the nail on the head, Grieving. I noticed this thing after my mom died - people would ask, with great curiosity, how she died. When I told them they often seem relieved, like because they didn't do X, Y, or Z that were known contributing factors to her cause of death, that somehow they would live forever and avoid all death.

I have seen the same thing in people I've told about the A, they seem to be looking for a way that my marriage was different from theirs as a way of reassuring themselves their spouse could never cheat. If they can find what I did wrong, they can just not do that thing and poof! no A. I understand the thinking, but this is a big part of the reason I've been so open with everyone about what happened - I think more people need to understand As.

To go back to the original question, I think this is why so many books have this approach...it sells. Everyone wants to think they can prevent the bad thing from happening or at least, from happening again.