SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I also want to make a quick comment on the "brainwashing" aspect. It’s unquestionable that I have been influenced by advice given here. But it’s not like it’s been some kind of uncritical evaluation where your words just got spoon fed into my mind. I heard your words, I evaluated, I accepted some, I rejected others. I used my mind, my gut, my judgment to take what was useful and left the rest. This comment is mostly for my wife reading this some day, but yes, I do find it insulting that she would think I just took all this and was blown by the wind. She really doesn’t know me at all if that is where her mind goes.

When these sort of discussions crop up, I M always reminded of the old joke "how many therapists does it take to change a lightbulb? Just one but the lightbulb has to want to change."

From a WS perspective, I can tell you that SI scared the shit out of me. I was at my lowest, I was desperate to save my marriage, and I was clueless on how to go about it all. At the time SI had quite a large group of veteran and new WS members that would hold my feet to the fire. I learned pretty quickly that you can’t bullshit bullshitters. It’s a double edged sword because I wish we had the WS community we had back then, but I don’t wish infidelity on anyone to get them.

If you ask me, I am probably one of SI’s biggest fans. I credit it for very literally saving the life I have today. I am very certain my marriage would not have survived without the support that both my husband and I received. Have I always been grateful for this community? Of course not. Truth hurts and the process is brutal. I blamed this site at times for creating triggers. In hindsight, I realize that in order for us to have a meaningful reconciliation we had to address those triggers and process every piece of my affair. Avoidance would be unhealthy. Now, I can credit SI and its community to helping us push through those difficult times.

All of this to say, I’m sorry that your wife isn’t ready to address the painful and difficult aspects of her character in order to make progress. I really had hoped she would make a turn and start doing the work.

She hasn’t hit her rock bottom yet and she clearly doesn’t have anyone (other than you) trying to hold her accountable. That’s why I see SI as so valuable. Accountability by others than your spouse.

I’m glad that you found us.

I wanted to also add that my WW hated SI but now appreciates what it’s done for us. She encourages me to stay and pay it forward and hasn’t complained about the time I spend here, but she still doesn’t know my username because I don’t want her here. This is my space to speak open and honestly.

I may be reading into things but something tells me @InkHulk's WW is not such a huge fan of my posts

I am glad to hear OP that you are finally getting yourself out of infidelity. If you date again there are far better women out there!

I may be reading into things but something tells me @InkHulk's WW is not such a huge fan of my posts

Probably a fair assumption

InkHulk,

I would guess you've received the widest range of advice, much more than what you get from one counselor or two.

Perhaps she feels she can't manipulate the posters the way she can a counselor, too many points of view for her to refute.

What I think your WW dislikes is that she feels outnumbered and in a sense exposed.

Is she very worried still about preserving her reputation.

I think the reason

unremorseful ws don't like this site, is because we shine a light on all of their dark secrets. We see through them,and know when they're full of shit. And it freaks them out.

I think, just MY opinion, that a lot of relationships that are affected by infidelity, if they "survive," do so because it all gets swept under the rug. The BS who find this site,realize very quickly there is a wrong way to "reconcile," and there are a few very healthy ways to reconcile. The majority of BS,who find SI,won't allow rugsweeping. They won't allow blameshifting. They establish boundaries, requirements,etc. They learn to finally tune their bullshit meter,and recognize red flags. They learn the difference between remorse,and regret.

And..for an unremorseful ws, all of this is a problem, because it means their life isn't going to be so comfortable for awhile.

Ink..I've been thinking about your wife,reading these posts, since yesterday. I'm sure they hurt her. But..that's ok. I'm sure it was hard to read that she did things that caused enormous damage to you,and your kids. But,that's ok as well. It's a shame that she hasn't yet developed the skills to take in what feels negative, live with it for a bit,and come to terms with the facts that much of what was said was the truth. And she still had..has..time to make some amends. It's a shame that she didn't see,in you,what we've all seen. You have been incredibly patient,and kind to your wife. You have given her chance after chance to work on herself, and become the woman she says she wants to be. You have shown you love your wife,deeply. That she didn't read that in your posts..but instead decided you were capable of being brainwashed..has to be very painful for you. I'm truly sorry she continues to hurt you.

If you decide to try again...I'd make it a requirement that she start posting in the ws forum. We have several incredible fws who can guide her. It will be uncomfortable for her. But,that's ok. She can use a stop sign,so she only hears from waywards. They will help her with her defensiveness, and call her on her shit,respectfully. Honestly, I think this site might be the only thing that will help her,at this point. IC isn't. MC isn't. She's been lying throughout both. This site is an invaluable resource. And,if she's going to read,she might as well post.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:27 PM, Wednesday, June 14th]

Was it Walloped’s thread where Mrs Walloped read all of the comments and had an anxiety attack? That couple is mentioned from time to time, because both were and are deeply worthwhile people who this community came to value. And they reconciled, no doubt with some scars.

It’s a bit like AA. If you go there and say ‘I can have a drink now’ everyone is going to say ‘here’s trouble’, not ‘we respect and value your autonomy and special insight into you unique interior dynamics’. SI is a kind of liar’s anonymous. It can teach a kind of tough love grounded in honesty which might just save a marriage if both people really want to and are not irredeemably personality disordered.

I hope your wife reads this. So here’s a direct message in case she does. InkHulk and I share some things in common, including being adult children of alcoholics and being professionals. For me, that gives me an ability to wait out just about anything but a very strong desire never to live like that again also. I am reconciling with my wife but her affair was shorter. I credit the deep introspection of Waywards like Daddy Dom, BSR and Hiking Out with giving me reason to stay in that watchful holding pattern a little bit longer until I could see signs of real change in my spouse. I had an impression of the kind of change I might be willing to stay for if I saw it. And after about 6 months I did. She does not know about this site. She does not know how much she owes it. But she is grateful to still have me.

Mrs InkHulk, the window to reconcile is closing, if it has not already done so. Do not muck around. This is no small thing. Your husband doesn’t want to persecute you, but if you don’t have a life-changing and enduring reconnection with truth-telling pretty much straight away, everything is going to go South for you and for people you care about, for years.

[This message edited by straightup at 8:28 PM, Wednesday, June 14th]

Ink..I've been thinking about your wife,reading these posts, since yesterday. I'm sure they hurt her. But..that's ok. I'm sure it was hard to read that she did things that caused enormous damage to you,and your kids. But,that's ok as well.

Hellfire, you successfully extracted tears with this post. No apologies needed

It's a shame that she hasn't yet developed the skills to take in what feels negative, live with it for a bit,and come to terms with the facts that much of what was said was the truth.

" Don’t you remember on earth—there were things too hot to touch with your finger but you could drink them all right? Shame is like that. If you will accept it—if you will drink the cup to the bottom—you will find it very nourishing: but try to do anything else with it and it scalds."
- CS Lewis, The Great Divorce

This is a lesson that sadly my wife has not learned, it is something that seems deeply in conflict with her particular inner demons. But with humanity, we all do bad things. We all hurt those we love. Facing it, naming it, feeling it, it’s the only way to sustain. My fear for her is that she deeply desires intimacy but her shame shield extinguishes it, and those things will conspire to keep her jumping from fling to fling, always wanting the deep connection and then always running from it when it comes close. And I see the little girl who was hurt and neglected to set this in motion, but I can’t do a damn thing about it.

And I see the little girl who was hurt and neglected to set this in motion, but I can’t do a damn thing about it.

I'm married to the same broken little girl who comes from at least 3 generations of broken little girls. I know my WW has childhood PTSD. Her world is full of fear of even the most insignificant things. My WW tries desperately to keep her physical world organized because of the inner chaos and monsters under the bed.

I don't think InkHulk's WW has been lying to her IC per se, or come to think of it, maybe she has and WW's IC has been uncritically going along with it. I think instead WW's IC can still see the 30,000-foot view on things, and she is still telling WW to "stand up for" herself i.e., WW's affair and all, IC says that InkHulk just needs to "get over it". I'm thinking WW's IC got her degree from The University Of Rugschaweeping. It's a no-good school, Very bad!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:59 PM, Thursday, June 15th]

I think you need to figure out whether your WW is only temporarily broken and with time, a good IC, and a personality that is conducive to R, the M can come back.

Or, was she always broken, and this fact was simply overlooked and brushed aside because you were living your lives?

If it’s the latter, you could literally be in R for the next ten years, only to find out that the permanent brokenness was indeed permanent, and irredeemable.

I think I’d need some convincing that temporary vs permanent brokenness is a helpful category to think in. Almost all of what I am reading about traces these issues back to childhood, and if that is true then all of our attachment issues (of different types and severities across people) would seem to fall in your "permanent" and therefore irredeemable category. Sorry, I don’t think/believe like that. I’ll admit this time to religious influence.

This comment is mostly for my wife reading this some day, but yes, I do find it insulting that she would think I just took all this and was blown by the wind. She really doesn’t know me at all if that is where her mind goes.

It is possible that your WW has not let go of controlling the outcome. By you developing your own ideas/approaches, it means that you are no longer under her influence/control. Control is a common denominator in waywards.

During their As, they had the feeling of control, and now that their A has been discovered, it also breaks their control.

So, any counsel the betrayed take that are at odds with the waywards' control, is a threat to them.

Your WW probably knows you quite well, so she is worried of the outcome that she has no control over.

Your WW probably knows you quite well, so she is worried of the outcome that she has no control over.

Both can be true here, that she is concerned over loss of control and she doesn’t really know me. I have learned to filter myself so much around her to try to avoid upsetting her. My sister recently commented that she sees me as muted around her, and that immediately made sense to me. So a combination of that with her projections could well mean that she doesn’t know ME well, and it’s likely she wouldn’t like that person. But I want to be that person full time.

Control is a common denominator in waywards.

During their As, they had the feeling of control, and now that their A has been discovered, it also breaks their control.

This x100000000

My WW still holds resentment that one of my close childhood friends counseled me to be strong, file for divorce and full custody. A friend was just looking out for what was objectively at the time the best interests of myself and our son, but she holds a ton of resentment about that friend having the audacity to suggest such a thing. It is all about the control that she was going to lose, she had no control over the narrative or the actions I would take.

I'd make it a requirement that she start posting in the ws forum.

This puts me in mind of a story I read in a book about a former US House Speaker (a faithful one, not a WS).

A member wanted an appointment to a committee. He wasn't getting it, so he tried to get the Speaker's primary adviser to recommend him. The adviser tried to avoid it, but finally he had to grant the member's request for a reco. He reportedly told the Speaker, 'There's no fucking way you can put this guy on the committee.'

Asking one's WS to read and post here is not likely to help unless the WS posts honestly. If you want to R, the WS has to post honestly in ways that help R. My W, for example, didn't post here until her healing was well on the way to being established, 2 years after d-day. Of course, that's only one data point.

A WS's healing path must, IMO, take the form of changing from betrayer to good partner. I think it probably requires IC. But, boy, I recommend as strongly as possible letting the WS figure out how they are going to make changes in themselves.

Ask for what you want, and make sure you are clear when you ask. Posting on SI because the BS requires it doesn't help unless the WS wants to post, wants the help, and actually makes use of the help.

An unremorseful WS may, for example, use SI to learn how to get better at cheating.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:05 PM, Friday, June 16th]

Typically, I don't think a BS should share this site with their WS at all. We can discuss the reasons, but they're not important here. But I'm not known for recommending a BS share this site with their WS,much less suggest that they require they post.

This WW has been reading his posts since he became a member. It doesn't sound like she's read anything else. She thinks we are horrible, bitter, brainwashing people out to hurt her marriage. Perhaps,if she signed up,and posted in the ws forum,with the stop sign,and received advice and support from members who have been in her shoes,it would help her,and by helping her,it also helps OP.

The truth is,she's got an amazing resource at her fingertips, one that, if she can change her perspective just a little bit,could save her marriage,if she gave it a chance.

At this point..she really has nothing to lose by giving this site a chance. Her husband is about ready to walk.

I think I've said it before, I think she wants to heal the damage, she just can't get out of her own way to do so. She is her worst enemy. We have some amazing former waywards who might be able to guide her.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:31 PM, Friday, June 16th]

I’m aligned with Sisoon, I can’t force her to do that and expect it to be helpful. I’m done making any demands, she can do as she pleases. And the corollary is also true, so can I.

I respect that. I just disagree. We make requirements of our ws all the time. We require they go to IC,NC, change jobs,dig deep,be honest, answer questions, be proactive, remove possible triggers,get rid of gifts,throw away clothing/lingerie worn with AP, speak to our family, drop friends who knew, no friends of the opposite sex,get tested for stds,be accountable for their time,full transparency, take a polygraph, etc,etc. But..asking them to post on an anonymous forum is somehow too much? That requiring that won't do any good because it feels forced..but none of the other requirements were forced?

I'm certainly not suggesting you sit her down and make her post,with force. But,simply make it a requirement, like every other requirement that's been made.

I mean..I see it as a Hail Mary. You've been doing everything else,yet she won't be honest,and sees defending herself as her most important play. Or,maybe I'm reading it wrong,and you don't think it would help her,since nothing else has, so why bother..

Regardless, your call. Who knows? Maybe she will decide to take that step on her own,and become proactive.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:30 PM, Friday, June 16th]