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Just wanted to jump in and say that deciding to leave at this point is neither rash nor stupid. This sort of trickle truth, minimizing, lying/lying by omission will continue for as long as you stay. This is going to be your every-other-week experience until you leave or decide to rugsweep.

If my WS's AP had contacted my children in any way... Just no. This is NOT something to ignore and explain away.

Plenty of reasons to be angry, but the lying by omission… it’s IMHO an expected and relatively smaller cause for anger. Your WW would possibly be one of very few that did tell you everything, but the general rule is that things that might have seemed insignificant at the time can become major issues down the road.

This is exactly true, though what I take from it is different. Everyone on here always says it's so tough for WSs to come clean right away, and even relapse into contact with the AP.

YEAH!?

SO WHY ISN'T SEPARATION THE DEFAULT?

She's given you another (emotional) shiner, but that's OK.

It's expected.

(I'm sorry this has happened to you and your kiddo. I feel so bad for her being stuck in the middle of her mom's BS.)

You can sympathize with her but not if it is to your detriment. You need boundaries for yourself. No matter what her issues are they should not rob you of a happy/contented/calm life. They should not drag on for years. No one wins and the stress is awful.
Be sure and take care of your health.

Your wife has handled this whole thing from day 1 about as badly as if she deliberately set out to destroy you and everyone around her.

The recent admissions after you gave her amnesty a year ago is maddening.

I honestly think some time apart is the best bet for you. You need some time to decompress away from the endless turmoil and drama. She reminds me of a combination of an emotional and energy vampire out of What we do in the shadows.

Once you have some time away from her endless in your face stress, you can start making clear eyed decisions.

Finally, on her past abuse issue and whatever wrong you did years ago, It does explain some of her actions but does not explain the multiple encounters with the multiple orgasms. And the I love you’s and the sex pics. It seems like she is using this as a shield to deflect the reality of what she actually wanted and was doing.

While it is good that you have understanding and empathy, don’t buy off on her narrative too much. She clearly did this because she wanted to. If you start with that premise, her behavior and lies are pretty clear. And pretty common.

Seems like you’ve been reading along pretty carefully for quite a while. Thanks for weighing in. I do need space from her, badly. There is no path right now that does not have us separating now for a good long while and I will be planning for a divorce, even if some conspiracy of my head and heart want to tuck some hope away and hide it in my soul. It’s just a fools hope at this point, and I don’t think I am that much of a fool.

Whatever wrong you did years ago.

My WW's narrative has always been that we both hurt each other. After years of giving it quite a bit of thought, I realized I gave my WW several emotional scratches over the years. Her response of dousing me with gasoline and lighting the match has always seemed just a little over-the-top.

My WW used a weighted scoring system to determine exactly where I'd failed to make the grade. She also kept shuffling around the weights of the graded areas to insure I failed in just the right category to justify her bad behavior.

Her rules meant that I had to be a bad husband because she desperately needed me to be a bad husband. She didn't want me to be better as that changed the cheating dynamics and weakened her internal resolve. Not sure if yours does something similar, but in the end it's all her own mind games. You're a very smart man, so you already know that.

Btw, Ink, the childhood thing is just a thing. She still chose her behaviors. The devil, her childhood, shoes too tight etc etc etc did not make her do it. She did it because she wanted to.

My husband cheated on the road. No longer travels, we own our on business, I know where he is. None of that changes the fact that he cheated. Nope. No excuse.

Don’t try to find one. Look at congruence between words and actions, over long period of time. If she is still down playing, trickle truthing, telling lies you have your answer.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 5:48 PM, Wednesday, May 24th]

Vomitousmass said:

My WW used a weighted scoring system to determine exactly where I'd failed to make the grade. She also kept shuffling around the weights of the graded areas to insure I failed in just the right category to justify her bad behavior.

As a divorce lawyer of thirty years and a man who has also been married thirty+ years who is also a betrayed husband, I have the following observation, made only somewhat tongue-in-cheek:

Women keep score cumulatively, from the beginning of time.

Men keep score from one sexual intimacy event to the next, where each act of sexual intimacy resets the score to 0-0.

[This message edited by Wiseoldfool at 11:25 PM, Wednesday, May 24th]

WiseOldFool: remember, gender generalizations will really get people in a tizzy around here, or at least one of the genders . Ask me how I know. But that was really helpful, I’ve never thought of it that way before and it resonates deeply.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 6:44 PM, Wednesday, May 24th]

InkHulk,

I’ve been in the principal’s office of every single school I ever attended. I’ve been scolded by judges for three decades, judges who could literally summarily put me in jail. I’ll survive this, too.

[This message edited by Wiseoldfool at 7:13 PM, Wednesday, May 24th]

I don't really like gender biases like this, and in this case in particular it feels like an overreach.

All people are prone to confirmation bias in making an argument.

So if we are angry (and want to be angry), or upset (and want to be upset) our brain will very rapidly collect memories and facts that justify our emotions. It's sort of designed to do that. It's how we get so much relationship history rewriting from all WS's. Not even close to exclusive to WW's.

The WS wants to feel *justified*, *not evil*, and *reasonable*. We all do. It's a basic desire. So our brain reaches for the memories to do that with. If we aren't in fact the things we believe we are, then our brain has to work overtime a bit, and it will.

I might have cheated, BUT .....

Well I only did that because ....

All the porous boundary shit that is used to rationalize bad behavior relies on this. If someone refuses to lose in general, their brain will always provide enough ammo to win the fight.

We all want to think "well if I have the right facts, I'll see the objective truth, weigh it in my ethical framework, and I'll make the right decision". That's just not how most people operate. It's closer to, "I'll do what's best for me, and figure out how to justify it as ethical as necessary". Even those of us that spend a large amount of time considering logic and ethics are prone to the second way of acting.

Please refrain from generalizations and demeaning gender stereotypes.

If you know enough to guess that your comment is not within guidelines, it's inadvisable to post it. When in doubt, review guidelines first. https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums/guidelines/

We all want to think "well if I have the right facts, I'll see the objective truth, weigh it in my ethical framework, and I'll make the right decision". That's just not how most people operate. It's closer to, "I'll do what's best for me, and figure out how to justify it as ethical as necessary". Even those of us that spend a large amount of time considering logic and ethics are prone to the second way of acting.

That’s almost enough to tempt a person to nihilism. But admittedly hard to argue with. I remember CT months ago talking about the values of her fWH not having the underlying conviction of principle needed to drive action, or resist temptation, which ever the situation required. How many things do we mentally agree with, either because of culture or family values or even for the obvious truth of it, but our hearts just don’t care about them? And which one really defines our character?

Also, apologies for my gender generalizing comment.

I'm a solid step away from nihilism.

Somewhere between Kant and Camus.

Please refrain from generalizations and demeaning gender stereotypes.

If you know enough to guess that your comment is not within guidelines, it's inadvisable to post it. When in doubt, review guidelines first.

How are you going IH?

FAWH, thanks for asking. I’m enjoying the holiday weekend, spending it back in my home town with family. It’s been a good way to decompress and re-ground myself. I’ve had some big conversations, including an unexpectedly vulnerable talk with my step-mother. As part of my journey here I’ve identified that I wanted to understand my father as someone more than a villain in my life. She was able to share her love for him, help me understand a little more about his demons and all his regrets for his actions that tore our life apart. That was a welcome gift in this time. I’ll go home tomorrow, spend one more night in the house with my wife (separate rooms), and then we will begin our nesting separation.
My DD had a first counseling session. I informed the counselor about what went down with POSOM. She reported back to me after the session that there was nothing uncovered in that session that was alarming. So that is a good sign, but I’m also not sure if it’s the end of the matter. I want to talk with this counselor and figure out what all we can do to help my daughter.
So I’m taking this one day at a time. I’m not in a rush. I’ve got the separation I need, got room to breathe. I’ll take stock, figure out intelligent moves, and try to enjoy a summer as much as I can.

Hi IH,

Glad to hear the news concerning your daughter and her first counselling experience. I hope that she is able to address some of the issues in her life.
Were you able to retrieve the texts from the OM?

It's also good to hear about the significant family conversations. I hope that the "grounding" that you experienced, as well as the new insights you received (especially regarding your Father), have helped you over the past few days as your immediate family changes its dynamic with the separation from your WW.
How is this going, especially for your children?

Blessings,
FAWH

FAWH, you come across as a kind and considerate soul. I wish we could have met under different circumstances.

I’ll give a little bit of an update. Honestly my life is less stressful, hence less activity here. When I’m away from them I miss my kids with a deep ache. That may just be the enduring nature of the shit sandwich. But still, things are more peaceful, and that is doing my soul some good. I travel for work this next week, that should be a good time for me to focus on.

I had probably the best conversation of our lives with my daughter the other night. She is incredible, thoughtful, articulate, amazingly aware of the circumstances of her life. It was a gift. In that vulnerable connected space I asked her if anything more happened in the texting with POSOM and she said no, so I’m going to believe her and let any further investigation go. That doesn’t change the fact that my wife’s actions were insanely reckless in creating the situation, but for my daughter’s sake I’m not going to deep dive it any further.

So that is what I have for now. I’m thinking a lot, reading, talking with close confidants, making sure I’ve got a really good handle on what I want here. When shit hits the fan again, and I’m sure it will, I’ll be back. But for now you can assume that no news is good news for me. As always, you all have my deep appreciation and gratitude.

How's it been going InkHulk?