SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As a fellow BH, your responses as to informing the OBS really puzzle me:

Nobody told me (emphasis mine), but I knew something was wrong. So I took it upon myself to find out. Isn't that true with most in our situation, you can feel it. I think the same was probably true with her, and if she really wanted to know she could have taken steps to find out.

Hypothetically, in your case, would you not have appreciated someone who had knowledge of your WW's infidelity taking the proactive step of informing you??? This concept of "No one informed me, I had to figure it out on my own so Im not going to inform her", is extremely quizzical given your own immense suffering at the hands of your WW and her AP.

It's not relevant, I was using it to see if in fact this must notify the AP's BS had any exceptions, if people could see there may be circumstances that'd make them reconsider.

Again, why are you looking for an exception? The generally held collective wisdom here and on other boards is to inform the OBS when you become aware.

Nothing is absolute. To automatically follow a course of action without careful thought on all the consequence of said action is never, NEVER, wise.

Well, I dont think having a moral compass in this regard makes you or anyone else an "absolutist", just compassionate, empathetic and having a sense of rightfully held indignation that a like wrong is being done to another human being and you have the power to assist them with the truth, thats all. Pretty straight forward to me.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 7:17 PM, Monday, March 13th]

Everyone deserves the basic right to consent to their own relationships. Knowingly withholding information from someone that could likely affect their decision to stay in a relationship is a violation of their autonomy.

You don't have to be the one cheating to be causing them harm, if you know and don't tell. It's really easy to say well it's not my relationship, I'm not involved so of course I have no blame here. But you DO, if you know and don't tell them.

It's not relevant, I was using it to see if in fact this must notify the AP's BS had any exceptions, if people could see there may be circumstances that'd make them reconsider.

Again, why are you looking for an exception? The generally held collective wisdom here and on other boards is to inform the OBS when you become aware.

Nothing is absolute. To automatically follow a course of action without careful thought on all the consequence of said action is never, NEVER, wise.

Well, I dont think having a moral compass in this regard makes you or anyone else an "absolutist", just compassionate, empathetic and having a sense of rightfully held indignation that a like wrong is being done to another human being and you have the power to assist them with the truth, thats all. Pretty straight forward to me

.

I was not looking for an exception per se. The general consensus is just that, general in nature. I am sure, despite what has been said to the contrary, there is a situation that could cause anyone to reconsider this hard and fast conviction. My example was one such situation.
As for the second comment, straight forward? Knowing nothing about these peoples lives other than one of them had sex with your spouse? How is that straight forward. Now, if this was present tense, OK. But when years have passed, that is a whole different ball game.

OK. But when years have passed, that is a whole different ball game.

The time is always right to do what is right.

The passage of years without you doing the right thing, that's shame on you. So correct it. Right your wrong.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 7:56 PM, Monday, March 13th]

I'm honestly kind of in shock that another BS would pass on the opportunity to bring the OBS out of the dark.

Are there exceptions to the rules? Sure. But what exactly about your situation feels like it should fall under "exception"? Because time has passed? Because you "know nothing about" these people's lives? How many BS's do you think know anything about the OBS's lives when they reach out to them?

The "Well no one told me and the OBS probably knows something is up anyway" is also a very weak excuse.

You must know that by not telling them you're, in some ways, acting no better than their WS, don't you? You're complicit in stealing years of this person's life by withholding this information.

I'm so sorry you've dealt with the pain of infidelity that you have, but that kind of pain should encourage BS's to stick together and stick up for one another, not apathetically ignore each other.

You're excuses point to someone who is conflict-avoidant at best and extremely apathetic at worst, at least in my opinion. You told yourself that the OBS certainly must know something is up and will find out eventually, so why bother? And now, you tell yourself that so much time has passed by, and you know nothing about them, so why bother? If it makes you feel better to tell yourself those things, okay, but you aren't going to convince anyone here that those are good enough reasons to stay silent. I implore you to reconsider.

All the best.

Did anyone else notice that the events occurred 20 years ago? The obs may not be alive. The point has been made. The problem he is experiencing now is living with a 67 year old that still is denying him agency. What does digging up a 75 year old woman solve now? Cut the guy a little slack.

The problem he is experiencing now is living with a 67 year old that still is denying him agency.

Denial of agency is the whole point. Flang made a lot of critical decisions in his life that were based the fact that he didn't know his wife had cheated on him and, after the initial discovery, thought she had stopped cheating much sooner than she actually did.

Butforthegrace said it best by saying that not telling OBS was symptomatic of Flang's conflict avoidance, which is keeping him stuck. Going back to Flang's original post, the fact that his WW can make occasional comments about her orgasms with AP without any fear of blow back is indicative of how all the rugsweeping of the past is still causing him immense suffering today.

flang I am very sorry you feel this way YEARS later. It is why I will never push a poster to R and why I think R is so rare. I too couldn't get over the A's. My mind was in rumination until I left the M and I am no longer plagued by the A's could care less now. I couldn't be around the perpetrator anymore my xWS. It really did bring the worst out of me and I was miserably in Limbo for too many years. Given my xWS was not remorseful but I also could not let go of what he did to me.

Did anyone else notice that the events occurred 20 years ago? The obs may not be alive. The point has been made. The problem he is experiencing now is living with a 67 year old that still is denying him agency. What does digging up a 75 year old woman solve now? Cut the guy a little slack.

No statute of limitations on doing the right thing in my book.

There was a poster here who contacted the OBS many decades later.

The law of unintended consequences applies at all times.

I appreciate your comment.
One thing, if it was solely sexual, how does one get past knowing they weren't able to satisfy their spouse? Feeling inadequate, it sucks. But I wonder if that's what it boils down to with my wife and I. I was in my mid twenties when we met, had only a few, brief relationships before meeting her. Inexperienced to say the least. I think that was a big reason she was unhappy. Our sex life didn't satisfy her. I can't explain it any other way. She was with him for the sex.

Have you asked her about this?

The thing that stands out in my mind is sex most often something that could be figured out between two people who are interested in figuring it out.

Personally, if you aren’t going to talk to her about it then maybe you should talk to someone. Therapy could be helpful to your quality of life.

There are females and males that seemingly cheat for purely sexual reasons but it always goes deeper than that. Sex on its own is not enough to cross the line. There has to be other elements. Lack of integrity, entitlement, selfishness, and most of the time it’s still a lot about getting validation.

Even sex addicts have a lot of factors beyond sex.

I am truly shocked at not just the lack of remorse but at the way she speaks about it 20 years later. There is a total lack of respect.

A woman or man who is unsatisfied in a relationship for any reason, including sex, has a responsibility to bring the concerns forward to be worked on. Not to go find it else where. And as a bs silently eating the shit sandwich and not bringing your concerns forward isn’t helping either.

You could have another 20-25 years of marriage. Why not see what progress could be made by being open with her and involving the appropriate resources?

Staying together for financial reasons or family reasons is all well and good, but if you could have a better quality life by making other decisions it seems like there is nothing to lose.

One life. We get one life. I think you deserve to have answers, and if staying married is your desire I think you deserve a healthy marriage that includes intimacy, affection, love and respect.

Flang - you'll get 2 opinions on the sex. Those that think that was what it was all about and those that say otherwise.

For me, I'll never believe it wasn't about the sex. As everyone here likes to profess: Actions over words.

They weren't being sneaky and risking D to trade recipes or to play cards with each other. They were sneaking around to have sex. You'll have the outliers here and there where there may not have been that much sex, but for the most part, they had sex every time they met up if possible.

Yet somehow, "it wasn't about the sex".

Add in how they tell each other how they are so much better/bigger than their BSes. And they're not telling each other how they're so much smarter or better at a video game than their BS. I think you get my point...

To top it off, it's very normal for the cheating couple to double or triple or more, the amount of sex they have compared to the amount of sex they ever had with their BSes.

Nope...can't convince me otherwise.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 8:46 AM, Tuesday, March 14th]

I can't really argue with that Golden.

Goldenr post makes so much sense to me. The ultimate goal of any affair is the 'SEX'. I always thought 'SEX' is a means to a certain end but no, it is the end.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 8:21 AM, Wednesday, March 15th]

** Posting as a member **

Again, we have people who claim to be BSes, not madhatters, stating that they don't believe other members who state that the sex was not their primary motivation for their As.

They are convinced they are right. They assert, with absolutely no evidence, that they know other people better than those people know themselves.

And that's my objection: not believing fellow SIers' posts. Especially when so many BSes post, 'We had a great sex life, so I can't figure out why he/she/they cheated.' That makes me think that the WS was looking to get something other than sex from cheating.

And especially when so many WSes post, 'The sex was 2ndary. I posted to feel better about myself/ because I was depressed/ because I was furious/ because I felt entitled to cheat, etc., etc., etc.' Ah, well. How does it make sense to believe what people post about themselves?

Maybe people cheat for sex alone; maybe they don't. We just don't know.

I do know, however, it's not healthy to pretend to know something one doesn't.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:53 PM, Tuesday, March 14th]

Sisson-

Sooooo, it's ok to give an opinion on why they cheated unless the opinion is it was for the sex?

Got it!

Hi Goldenr (good to see you)

It’s not that you can’t post people have affairs for sex, it’s the disregard there are other reasons to cheat.

At this point, I have had an affair and so has my husband. It’s my opinion that

A) affairs always have factors that are in addition to sex. If my husband said his was just needing more sex partners, then I might have had to divorce him.

No amount of therapy would make him want to stop. Eventually that desire will get the better of him.

Therapy can, however, uncover aspects of his character that would make that desire outweigh the life he has already built.

B) it doesn’t matter why they had the affair, it’s what each party does with that why.

We could say the reason is because they wanted to. That would be true. And then get divorced. Completely valid response.

But not everyone wants to get a divorce, so there are bigger questions to ask and decisions to make.

If I stay will they do it again?

In this case he doesn’t seem to believe it would happen again.

Did she suddenly stop needing more and better sex? By the sounds of it, both of them could use more and better sex in their lives.

So if she was so motivated by the sex, what motivated her to stop?

Sex on its own is not a powerful enough reason, with the exemption of maybe one night stand. After that it only becomes more complicated.

A ws who wishes to stay married must then say okay, here are the other mitigating factors and eliminate as many of them as they can by working on them.

Sex is part of an affair, I don’t disagree- they are not going through the rigors just to play cards. Sex is also part of a marriage and it’s not the only reason people get married either.

Gamblers don’t place bets because they love to lose money. They do it because of magical thinking and to escape. They believe it will solve their problems. So they try to “fix” the problem and end up losing their car, house, etc.

You are putting logic on something that has none. Gambling, drugs, alcohol, affairs, eating tide pods for attention, these all have root causes and one of those is choosing unhealthy outlets to try and numb pain.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:36 AM, Wednesday, March 15th]

You are putting logic on something that has none. Gambling, drugs, alcohol, affairs, eating tide pods for attention, these all have root causes and one of those is choosing unhealthy outlets to try and numb pain.

There's some truth to that analogy but there are also huge differences. Most people who gamble, drink, do drugs, or eat tide pods, never stood up in front of God and everyone and swore that they would never, ever do it for the rest of their lives. It's not magical thinking at the outset of those activities to think that you are just having fun and not hurting anyone but perhaps yourself.

By contrast a cheater knows that they are betraying someone to whom they vowed fidelity. They need a conscious rationale for that and it's often a betrayal in itself.

The point was when someone chooses any of those things, disregarding their spouses and families needs (which is often true for all these things) then they are out of balance. They are not applying logic to the situation. Their motivations are not based on solid ground.

As far as the wound they inflict as a result of their actions, I can agree it’s more personal and more damaging. But that wasn’t at all what I was posting about.

As far as making promises to God, adultery is on the same list as lying, and taking the Lords name in vain. And let’s not forget that everything I listed maybe outside of tide pods ruin families every single day causing divorce.

So we will have to agree to disagree. My affair is the worst thing I ever did in my life by a long shot, but it was also the most illogical thing I did by a long shot.

Edited to add:

It's not magical thinking at the outset of those activities to think that you are just having fun and not hurting anyone but perhaps yourself.

A married person who gambles, abused drugs or alcohol, is as intentional about hurting their family as someone having an affair.

I can have just one more drink, one pain pill, place one bet. I can send one flirty text. I don’t see this differently in terms of the ws side of things. They think they can handle it, they think they can get away with it. It is all a slippery slope in the same way when you consider the mindset of someone doing it. And they are all betrayal in marriage. All of those things of course would be received differently by the spouse they betrayed.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:52 AM, Thursday, March 16th]

Sisoon and HikingOut, we often tell people here that we can judge people's thinking and their beliefs more by their actions than by their words.

Therefore, it's pretty absurd to accept someone's claim at face value that their affair had little or nothing to do with sex when their actions-- frequent, passionate, and uninhibited sex with their AP-- clearly demonstrate otherwise.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 1:23 AM, Thursday, March 16th]