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Topic is Sleeping.

Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 8:28 PM on Monday, December 26th, 2022

I am going to second owningitnow. I think you need to look at how men act who have borderline personality disorder. I do not have the ability to diagnose anyone so I am only suggesting that this might be something you need to look into. I don’t think he’s mentally ill I think he is the product of genetics and his childhood but whatever caused him to be this way it seems to be permanent. People with personality disorders either don’t care or cannot learn from past behavior. That seems to be the theme of your husbands life….not learning anything.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4214   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8771009

 Kb82 (original poster member #70826) posted at 9:40 PM on Monday, December 26th, 2022

I agree so much. It's funny you say "he never learns anything ". I have thought this and said it to him several times during conversations about issues like the sexting, temperature, etc. Just hearing someone else say it lifts a huge weight off me that I've been carrying so long. He invalidates every issue I have with the marriage or his behavior, and has been for so long I started to invalidate myself as well.

As far as personality disorders, when we were dating there was similar behavior. We had been friends for a long time before dating and I really cared for him so I excused a lot of it because he had just been diagnosed bipolar. The Dr he was seeing kept changing mens, put him on things you're not supposed to mix, so I dismissed much of the crazy behavior for those reasons. He also is a opioid addict. He got on Suboxone over 6 years ago. Still taking it currently. A few years into marriage, supposedly another Dr told him he was NOT bipolar, that his addiction had made the other Dr mistake his symptoms for bipolar.

His mother is a nurse and has always interjected herself into his issues and our marriage. She is a snake in the grass. His friend previously told me that bc she used her nurse status to get confidential information on that friend when he was admitted into a mental hospital for a short period. At the point the friend told me this I was shocked bc I loved his parents at the time f. But I shortly realized he was right about her.

We separated years ago due to his addiction. During that time we had oy 2 children. My lawyer demanded a hair follicle test for visitation with our kids bc he was out of control and I told her he was doing pills. He was and I had proof. But somehow he passed that test and he even told me he didn't know how. But I have a feeling my MIL had a hand in that too.

The entire marriage has been mostly a huge mess. Everytime i think we are getting somewhere, things are getting better, boom. Another surprise. I saw on another post someone said we ignore flags and chalk them up to Normal ups and downs of marriage. That's exactly what I have done. And my husband knows my desire to have a good marriage and uses that to manipulate me. He will say "for better or worse, remember?" But at my lowest times, most emotional times, post partum, pregnant, etc, he was not there, caused more stress and hurt and anxiety. Like the sexting while post partum and pregnant in 2019. He has always expected me to be there in his lowest times, and I have. But he has never been for mine. It has always been one sided.

Thanks for listening and validating me. My mental health is already improving bc of it.

posts: 203   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2019   ·   location: TN
id 8771014

 Kb82 (original poster member #70826) posted at 9:44 PM on Monday, December 26th, 2022

I have ignored his calls all day. He texted me earlier he needed to talk to me. I ignored it. He then texted "you hate me so much you want me to die huh?" Another manipulation tactic of his. He says things like that often when I won't back down in an argument too.

posts: 203   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2019   ·   location: TN
id 8771015

leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 10:02 PM on Monday, December 26th, 2022

Yes, he's manipulating you. He feeds off of your reaction - any reaction. The worst thing for him is no reaction.

His modus operandi appears to be DARVO - Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. It's always your fault and he's the victim.

Hang in there and take care of yourself and your children.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3333   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8771016

OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 10:51 PM on Monday, December 26th, 2022

It has taken my brain a long time to accept that certain people, for whatever reasons, never learn from mistakes, pain, reprimands, or loss the way that the rest of us learn. They simply do not change regardless of the negative impact of remaining the same.

Lose a job = don't change a thing
Lose a good partner = still change nothing
Lose the respect of their children = nope
Lose friendships = "Not my fault"
Lose lawsuits = "The world is unfair"
Lose their home = "It's someone else's fault"
Sit home lonely and alone, cut off by everyone = "Life has been very, very unfair to me"
Die all alone = "I hope you miserable, ungrateful, hateful people will miss me!"

My stupid brain keeps thinking these types may one, one, one eventual day finally get it! But they do not. It is beyond sad to me. I mean, we normal people DO learn and grow and change and thrive. But these types stew in their misery and never learn any lessons of compassion, kindness, empathy, generosity, giving to get, letting down your guard, owning your faults, facing your fears. They do none of it and remain stuck in their miserable victimhood. Forever.

It seems your H is this type. There is no changing him, only leaving.

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5856   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8771021

tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 11:02 PM on Monday, December 26th, 2022

I'm sorry but I think the responses have been good but I also don't think the alarm you should be hearing is going off loudly enough yet.

Your H is abusive and escalating in behaviors and will definitely continue to escalate as you pull further away. Personally I would encourage younto pack go bags for you and the kids and get all important documents together. Know where the closest women's shelter is. Have your phone charged and handy at all times. Record every interaction you have with him. Do NOT allow him to be alone with the kids and do jot allow him to take them anywhere alone. It sounds like your parents have helped you in the past and I would strongly encourage you to allow them to help you again.

This man has proven time and again he is abusive and violent. Something you and your children should never be expected to tolerate or withstand. Plan your escape. And please for the love of your kids and their futures NEVER EVER allow him back in your heart, life, or bed.

See an attorney, visit the police to give them a heads up. Men like him are not to be trusted. Men like him will escalate.

Me: FBSHim: FWSKids: 23 & 27 Married for 32 years now, was 16 at the time.D-Day Sept 26 2008R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 20137   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8771023

Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 2:10 AM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

I agree with Tushnurse he is escalating and becoming dangerous.

He then texted "you hate me so much you want me to die huh?"

This is veiled threat, you need to find a way to get away from this abusive man.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

posts: 3388   ·   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   ·   location: Texas DFW
id 8771033

 Kb82 (original poster member #70826) posted at 2:13 AM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

You are right. He is dangerous. I have been avoiding him. My mom lives 15 minutes from me and all i have to do is call and she would be here immediately. I am getting my ducks in a row and planning our exit. Thank you for your concern and advice. I greatly appreciate it and am taking this situation seriously.

His fake act is unraveling fast and its making him very angry. He has been living lies for a long time and he is getting mad and angry being caught, trying to prevent me from pursuing the truth. So his story keeps changing. First he claimed they just showed up in his dropbox. Which i knew was a lie. The latest story is they were years ago and on his old drop box and when he put it on his new phone they appeared in thevdrop box so he deleted them. But, the porn screensshot i researched and the video was only uploaded may 24 of this year. And who knew reddit has porn?

I'm pretty sure I discovered who the guy is. I found his friend that I was thinking it was from awhile back on his old Facebook and it looks like his face. If anyone wants to give a second opinion let me know and I'll inbox the pics and cut out the nasty part. I'm getting everything in order so when I file I will have proper documentation.

Thanks everyone for the support. I have not disclosed any of this to family or friends yet so you all are my rock. I truly appreciate each of you.

posts: 203   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2019   ·   location: TN
id 8771034

Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 2:34 AM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

I am so concerned about you that I want you to play this a little bit differently. Don’t tell him you are leaving him just tell him you’re going to go visit your mother and take the kids. Tomorrow morning contact an attorney and get something going ASAP. You also need to report to the cops what he did to you. You need something on the record about his behavior.

The reason I’m so concerned is because although I do think he might have the PD I see a lot of narcissism in how you describe him and narcissist do not like to be left. It damages they’re already very fragile ego. This is when they are the most dangerous which is why I do not want you to tell him you’re leaving him. Go in very slow stages out of his life. No confrontation if you can help it.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4214   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8771038

 Kb82 (original poster member #70826) posted at 3:00 AM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Cooley thank you so much. You are a kind and caring person and I appreciate you. I haven't talked to him much at all in days and haven't said I'm divorcing him. I promise to make sure my kids and I are safe above all else. He has major psychological issues. The past few days I've been avoiding him. He will try to hug me or say he loves me. I just say ok. Then he gets mad. The few times I tried to talk to him about it he denied everything and got pissed and started yelling over me. So I'm just not speaking to him at all anymore and making our exit plan privately.

posts: 203   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2019   ·   location: TN
id 8771041

 Kb82 (original poster member #70826) posted at 3:52 AM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Leadields, you pointed out he feeds off my reactions and you are so right. One night awhile back the kids were staying at the grandparents. We had an argument. I chose to not engage. I stayed calm and slept in my daughters room and he kept coming in trying to argue. I just sat silent. It infuriated him. I was scared that night. He didn't stop trying to get me to engage that evening and I didnt sleep much. I remember hearing him leave for work finally the next morning and I was relieved. That night he stormed out the front door because he was mad when I said I wasn't arguing with him. Yelled that I'm a whore. New neighborhood so i was very embarrassed. And I have never been unfaithful or even close. The only time I ever even "crossed a line " in my opinion was when an ex from my early 20s popped up on my Facebookand i messaged him. This was a guy I dated that had opioid addiction (they seem to flock to me). Ive never had addiction problems but 2 out of 3 of my serious relationships, they have been addicts. Early 20s i dated this guy. We were engaged. He couldnt get out of the addiction at that time so we broke up. Almost 20 years later i hadnt talked to him at all. Honestly figured he was dead or bad off bc the last time i saw him he was in very bad shape. Anyway, he popped up on my facebook "people you may know" one evening. Husband was in bed. I saw ex is married with beautiful children and an addiction counselor now. I was ecstatic to see he is doing well. I messaged him and told him I was so happy for him. He replied "thank you. And by the way I want to apologize for the way i treated you years ago. I was deep in addiction and manipulated you and im sorry for that. Please forgive me." I said "of course i forgive you. Thank you for that apology. And im so happy to see you have overcome the addiction and have been blessed with a beautiful family. God is good". That was the entire conversation. I told Husband about it the very next morning. Showed him the entire conversation and told him i want no secrets and wanted to be upfront with him. He got angry at me! Still throws it in my face. Now looking back it kind of makes me laugh bc he has given me so much grief over that innocent conversation but i found other womens asses on his phone. The most recent discoveries.... And he wasn't upfront with me and it was all so much worse than my thing. Another night a few months ago he tried arguing with me again. I sat calmly in our bed watching TV. Told him again I was not arguing. He unplugged the TV and carried it off. I said 'ok this is ridiculous ' he started screaming at me then and threw the TV on the bed at my feet. I jumped up and slung the TV off my feet. It fell to the floor and broke. He still throws in my face I broke our last TV. Just brought it up when I mentioned the hole in the door. But doesn't acknowledge what actually happened. I've thought for years he tries to push me to get a reaction out of me so he doesn't look bad.

A lot of thinking and reflecting going on for me right now so if my replies are random or long winded I apologize.

This is stuff I've had on my mind but had to keep in. When I've tried discussing with him in the past, I am "crazy, irrational, retarded (he really says that) a drunk (I drink wine sometimes). I've been manipulated for so long and the real me is slowly returning. Thanks for listening. ❤️

posts: 203   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2019   ·   location: TN
id 8771046

The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 4:42 AM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

What is your exit plan?

I think you need an order of protection.

He’s dangerous and volatile.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13868   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8771050

leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 4:52 AM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

It's like the story of the frog and the kettle of water. As the heat goes up, the frog doesn't notice and is boiled to death. The abuse is so slow that we don't realize it until we hit the boiling point.

My XWH is a diagnosed covert narc. Dr. Ramani has some great YouTube videos that really helped me. Check out some of the trauma bonding ones, because you're probably trauma bonded. That's another issue you'll need to face.

One video she did that really helped was answering a question about if they knew what they were doing was wrong or abusive. Does he act that way when out in public or other people are around? Usually not, which indicates they can control their anger, behavior, etc.

ETA: My oldest said he couldn't believe I stayed married so long. Looking back, I should have left along one ago and saved my kids a lot of pain.

[This message edited by leafields at 4:55 AM, Tuesday, December 27th]

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3333   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8771052

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 2:04 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Have you ever called the police on him?

Right now..TODAY..go to Best Buy and get a small camera. A spy camera. Get 2. Put one in the bedroom, one in the living room. You need proof of his rage and abuse. You want either supervised,or limited visitation with the kids. He will use them against you. He will make co parenting impossible. We have a member, crazytrain, who posts in the divorce forum. Her husband is very similar to yours. He's abusing their son,mentally and emotionally, to hurt her. She's doing all she can,but at this point, the police don't care. You need proof. Also,carry a var on you everywhere you go. Obviously, including the bathroom. And the next time he gets scary,call the police. Do it discreetly,so he doesn't know. Also,get a burner phone. You said you can easily call your mom,and she would be there within minutes. Many abusers take the phone away,and hide it. Get another phone. Go to the grocery store, and take cash out at the register. Use the cash to buy these things.

I had an ex husband who broke down the door,when I was naked in the tub. I felt so vulnerable and helpless. It's been nearly 30 years since that happened..and I've never forgotten that feeling.

Does he have a gun? Do you?

Right now, he's into breaking things, destroying structures. When the abuser stops getting a reaction from that,they typically move on to hitting their spouse. Please be safe.

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:06 PM, Tuesday, December 27th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6632   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8771076

 Kb82 (original poster member #70826) posted at 3:03 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Thank you Hellfire. That is great advice and I will do all of that once I can get out of the house. Yesterday it started snowing. He was trying to call me I didn't answer. He has his mom text me. I told him he can text anything if it's important.

Here are the messages:

I want to stay there that's why I've been trying to call you Jesus Christ Katie you have zero compassion for any f****** body

I'm f****** driving in four wheel drive and an inch and a half of snow to get back to you

In the truck that's not even mine and I'm not even sure I'm allowed to bring it home

My reply:

No need for that. Just stay wherever you're safe.


The heat's not working there I'm coming there my family is there my wife is there I'm coming there I don't give a f*** how safe I am I'm coming home to my home with my wife and my children


Heat feels fine here


Fine Katie if you don't want me there I won't come there but just know your heat's costing you about three times what it normally would

And it's been running that way since Christmas Eve so....

Yeah I don't have any clothes anywhere else but there either

And I've been actually busting my ass all day today and would like to take a shower and change clothes

So he came home. I stayed with my kids and didn't engage. This morning he's stuck in at the moment bc of snow. This morning he's trying to get me to cuddle up with him. Tried to have sex and I said no. I'm just avoiding him until he can get out and to work. But I will definitely do all the things you mentioned.

My plan is to get proof of what he does calmly and without him knowing. I have reported past incidents to police. In our separation years ago I had a restraining order. I know I must look like an idiot for going back to someone I had to get a restraining order against. I truly believed he was going through mental issues and addiction issues and that wasn't the real him. We had a history together as friends. Children together. I wanted a happy life with him and my kids to have a solid family so bad.

The phone thing, I'll definitely get a burner. He has broken numerous phones of mine over the years. He does have guns. I do not currently. I have an outdoor camera system and changed the password yesterday so he can't get in and delete anything.

posts: 203   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2019   ·   location: TN
id 8771079

leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 3:24 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

You may want to look up trauma bonding. When they're nice & sweet, it's so very wonderful. We have a tendency to want to wait for the nice, sweet person to come back. The problem is, they aren't that nice, sweet person, the abusive a-hole is more of their true self. Trauma bonding looks a lot like co-dependency, but isn't.

There's a book by Lundy Bancroft called, "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" that isn't specific to infidelity, but can provide some insight. The author is a counselor who specializes in working with abusive men.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3333   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8771080

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 3:59 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Definitely call the police if he gets violent again. Or if he makes any suicidal threat. They will take his guns for a period of time. Are the guns in a safe? Can you change the pass code?

No,you don't look stupid for going back to him. You've been in an abusive relationship for a very long time. That changes your brain chemistry. You start to normalize his abuse. This is only one of the reasons I said to get him out,because of the kids. The kids will normalize abuse as well. They will grow up,and abuse their spouse,or find people who abuse them. Because,when they were young, this was their normal.

I'm really worried about you. I understand leaving takes some time. BTDT. But,could you check in,on the this thread, daily? You have a lot of friends here who are concerned about you.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6632   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8771084

 Kb82 (original poster member #70826) posted at 4:20 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Thank you. Yes I vow to check in daily. I appreciate the support very much. He has finally left for work today. Big relief. I completely agree that my children will normalize his behavior. My parents divorced when I was 15 bc my dad was the same way. He actually called me and my sisters "little bitches" in one of his rages. I have not spoken to him much In around 5 years bc he is still a selfish asshole and it is a one way relationship, much like my marriage. As much as I hated my dad for the things he did in the divorce, I ended up with a version of him. It's ironic because my husband will say things like "stop, I'm not your dad" in arguments sometimes. He's actually worse at times than i remember my dad. I'm determined to break the cycle and show my kids that this is not normal.

posts: 203   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2019   ·   location: TN
id 8771087

ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 4:55 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

He will say "for better or worse, remember?"

"For better or worse" is about circumstances, not about choices. If a tornado blows our house down, we're in that together. If the stock market crashes and we lose our retirement, in it together. Through thick and through lean, right? It doesn't mean that you get to act like a bully, say disrespectful things, renege on your promises, or in any other way choose to be an asshole.

There are people who are so consumed by their own emotions that they don't have space for anyone else. Unfortunately, oftentimes those same people will believe that they have a right to some kind of unconditional love and support, but that kind of love is the love we reserve for children because children are not responsible yet for their behavior. These people are adults who approach the world through the self-involved lens of childhood, having never grown into emotional responsibility for themselves but always deferring it onto others.

For someone like that, it is impossible to appreciate other people enough to refrain from the self-indulgence of unregulated temper. In his mind, your acceptance of his rages is his due. It's just part of being together. And you better believe that eventually, your children will be expected to bear the brunt of it too. There are no exceptions because for him... this is what love means, tolerance for HIS version of "for better or worse".

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 7017   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8771089

Hippo16 ( member #52440) posted at 6:20 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Lots of words on your post postulating the "whys and hows" -

My addition is simple:

Leave and separate while you can walk. Get a concealed carry permit and learn the law. He sounds like he is slowly escalating his level of uncontrolled anger.

Or -

Stay and endure the highly likely chance you will "be leaving" on a stretcher/gurney - possibly with sheet covering your face.

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 6:20 PM, Tuesday, December 27th]

There's no troubled marriage that can't be made worse with adultery.If you’re looking for an adrenaline rush, why not bungee jumping off a bridge span? For an extra thrill, don’t anchor the cord.

posts: 884   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2016   ·   location: OBX
id 8771099
Topic is Sleeping.
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