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Newest Member: Goku06

General :
OK. Who鈥檚 ready for drama.

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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 5:57 PM on Monday, September 5th, 2022

This may sound extreme but, a VAR hidden in the car would be extremely revealing in your case.

You catching her covertly communicating with other men, sharing photos with other men, alone is enough to warrant extreme investigation. Not to mention her huge red flag 馃毄 comments and behaviors.

-VAR the car.
-Get access to her phone at night or when she鈥檚 in the shower.
-Check her Screen Time history located in Settings (iPhone)
-Check her search histories on all search engines.
-Check the phone bill
-Check text traffic
-Check data use
-Check her App Store purchase history to make sure isn鈥檛 shuttering certain apps that enable covert comms. (Shuttering: The download-use-delete cycling of apps).
-Check tethered devices that share the cloud such as iPads.

posts: 942   路   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8753991
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blahblahblahe ( member #62231) posted at 2:30 AM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

Lawyers and accountants are in order. Protect yourself, she has no doubt already been moving assets into protected areas, I sincerely hope you have been doing the same.

You are playing catch-up both emotionally and financially, except this is not a game to ever lose. If you dither about you are going to be screwed, don't let it happen more than it already has....

posts: 308   路   registered: Jan. 11th, 2018   路   location: Europe and USA
id 8754045
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straightup ( member #78778) posted at 4:09 AM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

My wife and I are reconciled. Read about the 180 and do a version of it.

Mine was a very soft 180.

I signed up to a gym and started taking the dog on some very long walks. I did that with little consultation, told her when I was going, but not exactly when I would get back. She would have to adjust, not rely on me to hang with our teenagers whilst she took off.

I signed us up for marriage counseling. She refused to go, so I went alone. Bye, I鈥檓 off to the psychologist.

She was taking me for granted. When she saw that the more she pulled away, the more I lived my own life, she started to make bids for connection, for a change.

I did the 180 pretty slow and thankfully she came to understand how very much more difficult life would be without me.

I avoided knee jerk responses, even though some would have been justified. For example, she didn鈥檛 and doesn鈥檛 work much. She bought a 5k bike, withdrew 10k from a joint account, and paid all of her small wage into her account I don鈥檛 have access to. Meanwhile she had full access to and used all of my and our accounts. I asked her how she thought things could ever work as a family if I did something equivalent. It did not compute to her. Now it does again.

I felt a bit like a proverbial ocean liner, I was going slow, nothing I did was going to surprise her, but it鈥檚 hard to turn an ocean liner around. If she didn鈥檛 like where the ship was traveling, she would have to take steps to help me turn it around in time.

[This message edited by straightup at 4:11 AM, Tuesday, September 6th]

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 167   路   registered: May. 11th, 2021   路   location: Australia
id 8754052
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 1:10 PM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

I did the hard 180 immediately. And I focused more on my own social life.

My H became a priority of second or third tier after dday2.

In order it was me, kids, job and then my H.

It鈥檚 been 9 years and I still don鈥檛 do his laundry or errands. Period.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 12495   路   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8754073
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HarryD ( member #72423) posted at 2:59 PM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

How many Red Flags do you want to see, she has a Fuc* me sign on her. She is looking for her knight to ride off in the sunset with, There are men out there who can see and feel these woman. They are all lining up.
It up to you it鈥檚 your life. She is ready to leave

posts: 109   路   registered: Dec. 30th, 2019   路   location: NY
id 8754089
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 Lonelyinlove2 (original poster new member #80620) posted at 3:13 PM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

Wow, I never imagined I would get so much support on here. It鈥檚 hard to keep up with all the questions and I am new here and do not know all the abbreviations. I can figure most out but some are tricky. Is there a place where I can see what the abbreviations mean?

I totally understand what everyone is saying and I guess I am just afraid that this has been going on too long and I now have myself convinced that if she is forced to stop with this phone hobby she has going I will somehow have to fill whatever void is left with some sort of excitement that will equal the phone hobby and after 22 yrs it鈥檚 hard to compete with the rush of excitement from someone new. I know it鈥檚 dumb and I feel pathetic about it, but I think I鈥檓 just afraid of loosing her. I do understand what you are all saying though about the 180 change of my approach if it is ever going to work and in reality I have already lost her and now is the time to make a change. That New Relationship Energy is pretty powerful when it鈥檚 on the way up and I suppose I am afraid of the choice and I don鈥檛 want to bluff and not be able to follow through or it will knock me further into my hole if that makes sense.

As far as why I am paying for the surgeries I need to clarify. I have a successful small business and she does a lot of the book work etc and she also does pretty much all of the household bills... she is very smart and has a great career as well and since we are married our money is co mingled and since she has a job of her own in the medical field and I have a successful business we just kind of put money aside for stuff like that. I want her to look beautiful and how can I fault anyone for wanting to take care of themselves. I don鈥檛 think she started doing that to attract male attention but rather after all the hard work and getting her thyroid meds in line it鈥檚 as though it woke something up inside of her and that鈥檚 why I say it鈥檚 like she鈥檚 under a spell and she needs validation to know she is still beautiful. I guess in a way I kinda feel bad for her (also know that鈥檚 lame;). I also fear that the amount of resentment there would be if she were somehow forced (Which I would never try) to stop focusing on her appearance would put a end to this relationship so it鈥檚 really a catch22. It鈥檚 not her appearance that is the problem obviously, it鈥檚 where it鈥檚 directed for validation. I guess it鈥檚 hard for me to relate because I am a decent looking guy, not overweight, active, and look young for my age too. I honestly feel like if we had never met and were to bump into each other now that I would probably be a guy she would fall for again and I defiantly feel the same about her and that鈥檚 the part that sucks for me because I have always loved her and been as attracted to her when she was pregnant, after the kids when she had some extra weight and whatever spot in her life that she would consider her lowest I have always been as attracted to her as I have ever been. So it鈥檚 hard to hear her say that she just doesn鈥檛 think it鈥檚 possible for people to feel that way forever when I鈥檓 over here feeling like growing old together and being there for each other sounds amazing.

I obviously have her on a pedestal and that could be the very problem since I am literally the sure thing like some of you have said. But that鈥檚 how i feel so it鈥檚 ready hard to to give her a ultimatum that I am not sure I can go through with. I feel like it鈥檚 gonna make me hate myself though so I know you are right with the advice some of you are giving.

Anyway. About those abbreviations? It would help if I knew who the advice was coming from but sometime I can鈥檛 decode the abbreviations. I also like that some of the advice is coming from folks that have turned this around vs just figuring out how the get to the divorce because I鈥檓 not there quite yet.

posts: 20   路   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2022   路   location: Eastern WA
id 8754090
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 3:31 PM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

Here you go:
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/abbreviations/

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3454   路   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8754093
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 4:23 PM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

So drawing a boundary with her (not about her appearance of course) about her phone usage, sharing her passwords, reddit posts, etc. would cause her to get angry? You think she will tell you No? Would she go so far as to move out? Get a lawyer? Do you feel she is already one step out the door and fine with divorce?

Let's assume that's true. Based on what we see here over and over, you can try to tolerate it and not draw a boundary. But it will eat you alive--depression, anxiety, insomnia, physical ailments. Read the book The Body Keeps the Score. We really cannot tolerate the intolerable without paying a high price. It's too traumatic.

That leaves you with taking tolerable action, things that make you feel you are not simply allowing this and are instead addressing it at your own pace.

Investigative and information gathering steps (to prove what she is doing):

Voice activated recorder hidden in her car or at home to see who she is talking to.

Tracker hidden on her car to see where she is going.

Checking the cell phone bill over the last few months to look for multiple texts or long calls to an unknown or repetitive number.

Hire a private detective to watch her when she goes out.

Scrutinize credit card statements for hotel charges, etc.

Soft 180 (distancing yourself) or hard 180 (completely detaching from her where you can)--to stop humiliating yourself by chasing someone who is emotionally abusing you:

Planning and eating some or all of your own meals.

Taking care of your own needs and not the needs of your cheating spouse.

No favors ("Sorry, I'm busy.")

No longer checking with the cheater, chatting with the cheater, or sharing your daily ups and downs with the cheater.

Finding your own hobbies and recreations to pursue (be busy and unavailable).

Arranging nights out with friends that don't include her.

Doing things with the kids by yourself.

Watching tv in a different room.

Pulling back.

Pulling away.

Withdrawing your 1/2 of the couple just like the cheater has been doing in their own way.

The purpose of investigating is obvious. The purpose of the 180 is to gather your dignity and strength instead of begging, begging, begging which not only does NOT get someone to love you (pity is not romantic or magnetic), but begging and chasing also feels humiliating and degrading! We hate ourselves for clinging to someone that is kicking us in the head! The 180 in any and all of its appropriate forms gives us a modicum of self-respect as we gather our thoughts and absorb our new reality. (Occasionally the change to the marital dymanic is the wake up call the cheater needs, but often it is not. The 180 is done for us, to detach from a painful relationship while we figure out how to proceed.)

A few additional questions:

1. Do family members know what she is doing? Have you told anyone or gotten support? Letting her live in her fantasy world is not helpful. Consider bringing some reality to her life by informing others so that you can get support and intervention.

2. Is she leaving the house? Meeting these other men? Are you concerned with hook ups and STDs?

3. Are you two still sexually active? Or is she shutting you out completely?

4. Is this impacting your kids? Do they see her on her phone constantly and know what she's doing? Does that make you angry?

It does feel like she's in a midlife crisis, but the reason is neither here nor there. Some people do not come back to reality from a midlife crisis unfortunately. Cheaters always find their reasons, so try not to minimize the seriousness and think you can wait this out. It will take a huge toll on you.

I would not say that all hope is lost, but you have to try to understand something: you cannot fix this. I know you want to, but pretend she has any other "illness." You didn't cause the Lupus, the Cancer, the Diabetes, and you cannot fix it or make her "well" again. All you can do is try to think and act as clearly and smartly as possible and cross your fingers. It's on her. No amount of waiting, not acting, nicing, talking, or supporting will make her wake up to the hurt she is causing. Your behavior did not influence her (we're all boring after a couple of decades! You didn't cheat, did you? Ok then). And your behavior cannot make her come back.

Read some books.

Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Anderson

Not Just Friends by Glass

The Body Keeps the Score by Van der Kolk

Keep active. Eat healthy.

Find a good therapist to talk honestly with.

Spend time in nature. Spend fun time with your kids.

Refocus on you because you matter. Be good, kind, and loving to yourself by treating yourself well and not blaming yourself needlessly.

Good luck to you.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:30 PM, Tuesday, September 6th]

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5630   路   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   路   location: Midwest
id 8754101
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Tanner ( member #72235) posted at 6:03 PM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

I am afraid of the choice and I don鈥檛 want to bluff and not be able to follow through or it will knock me further into my hole if that makes sense.

I get what you are saying, and I felt the 180 was also bluffing my way along. Until I got genuinely pissed off. I had enough I was absolutely going to leave and D her.

Go ahead and realize, she鈥檚 gone you have lost her, let her go, Do you know what happens to women seeking validation when they get rejected? The plan B rug ripped out from under them? They panic, she is using the same play book my WW did.

She is no longer your concern, take care of you. You can鈥檛 fix this without putting your foot down.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R
BH M 31 years

posts: 1795   路   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   路   location: Texas DFW
id 8754111
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 6:47 PM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

Reality Blows, Straightup and Owningitnow's guidance on this page is all very valuable.

You love her and dote on her but she is pulling away with lots of red flags. Please realize that wives with red flags and who are looking at other men are usually not going to respond to being more focused on them, even nicer and even more loving. It translates to being a very nice doormat and she won't respect that. You have to stand up for yourself if you want a chance to save the relationship. It may be counterintuitive but most of the time it is the very best strategy and the only one which has a chance to work.

posts: 642   路   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   路   location: US
id 8754117
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 8:45 PM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

You have a gold mine of experience. These people know what they鈥檙e talking about. They have been there and done that. What you need to do is go back and read every single thing that has been written here. Your wife is way past just doing a little surgery. She is trolling.

When things go wrong, don鈥檛 go with them. Elvis

posts: 3491   路   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   路   location: US
id 8754132
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 Lonelyinlove2 (original poster new member #80620) posted at 9:31 PM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

Forgive me if I am just repeating the same story every time but I start out trying to respond to the posts but there is so much good info that I can鈥檛 hardly take it all in.
I do have her phone code and after feeling something was off is when I found the Snapchat message that she claims is nothing but a random reddit person. But my view on that was it must have been a bit more if it went from reddit to snap and was invited in. She admits that it was wrong and says she deleted him from snap and it was nothing.

As far as someone said that I can not fix it. That is the main problem. I am a fix it guy by nature whether it be mechanical or relationship.... I am constantly looking for answers and clues to support what my gut is telling me. It really sucks because when I dig far enough I usually confirm what my gut is telling me. Her view on things in life in general is coming from a direction of "what they don鈥檛 know will not hurt them". I really feel like I could start a full blown relationship with another woman and she would not even bother to notice clues. I don鈥檛 know if it鈥檚 because she truly doesn鈥檛 care or because she knows it鈥檚 not in my nature.

I hesitate to bring this up because I really think it is a separate incident that happened many years ago where we experimented with swinging with other couples to bring some excitement back into our relationship. This really muddied the waters and thing went out of bounds on both ends, mine was in retaliation and turned into a bit of a relationship where her end was a one night stand. We really just locked all that up in a box and I try not to ever open it but it did happen and I should have disclosed this to you all earlier but I don鈥檛 feel it is the same as where we are now. It was 13 years ago.

posts: 20   路   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2022   路   location: Eastern WA
id 8754136
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farsidejunky ( member #49392) posted at 10:23 PM on Tuesday, September 6th, 2022

Unfortunately, no amount of "fixit" skills can reconcile a marriage with a remorseless wayward still in the midst of their affair.

Do you see the fallacy?

By refusing to see that you can't fix this on your own, you are deluding yourself into believing that you don't have to put your foot down.

In other words, you have reverse engineered a reason to not enforce a healthy boundary in order to avoid the possibility of her leaving you should you actually say, "Enough is enough."

Of all the lies we tell, the ones we tell ourselves are the most damaging.

鈥淣ever make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option.鈥

-Maya Angelou

posts: 618   路   registered: Aug. 30th, 2015   路   location: Tennessee
id 8754143
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 Lonelyinlove2 (original poster new member #80620) posted at 3:18 AM on Wednesday, September 7th, 2022

Well....... I Finally did it. I was running on the treadmill and came upstairs and happened to look out the window down to our pool and Ashe was taking a selfie that was more of a body shot. I snapped and just went down and unloaded. I do t even think she did anything with the pix or maybe she was gonna.... who knows. She is really focused on her body and looks that the could have just been for herself but who cares at this point.
Everything just spilled out of me about how all I really need is some sign of affection and to feel loved. Meanwhile she is getting hers from random people online. I believe her when she says that she is not having a physical affair and that is really not what is at the heart of this situation, it鈥檚 the fact that I do not feel love.

I told her I was done and she agrees and says that she tries to find feelings but they just are not there. She feels really bad but she is being honest and I can not fault her for that. I feel like I have known this a long time and just went on about my life and took whatever signs of affection I could get and buried myself in my work and hobbies. I can say that I am surprised how much better I feel now than when I was just stuffing the feelings down and playing a story that is probably more sinister than what it really is. The woman of my dreams simply fell out of love with me. I am heartbroken and maybe I am in shock but I am somewhat at peace with it. I just don鈥檛 think she had the heart to tell me and wanted it to keep chugging along since it鈥檚 easier than the alternative. Ironically we laced in bed and just held each other for a long time and just talked about how crazy this is and neither one of us can picture how this will go but we will be friends when it鈥檚 over and will not be a lawyer battle that we know we will both loose from. We are both fairly equal financially and we still have kids to raise. I almost feel like it will just turn into a roommate situation where neither of us wants to start this process. But I know that for myself that will not be a option because I will not be able to move on.

She does seem to be soul searching because she knows I am a good guy but it鈥檚 pretty hard to fall back in love with someone I suppose. I have no idea what鈥檚 gonna happen and I am so dumbfounded I am not just crushed right now. I think getting all that out and hearing what i pretty much knew was gonna be the answer feels less shitty than where I was before.

Now I sit here wondering what being alone is gonna be like. I love her so much that I can not picture myself even wanting to date anyone, but I do know that when I feel loved again it鈥檚 going to be a beautiful thing. I know that the process will happen but WOW, I never thought I would be here.

posts: 20   路   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2022   路   location: Eastern WA
id 8754168
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 4:03 AM on Wednesday, September 7th, 2022

So the fear of being alone is paralyzing you.

You would rather live with a wife who looks to others for love and validation than D her and think there may be a possibility that you could end up happier.

Sorry we can鈥檛 wave the magic wand and make it work out for you.

But she鈥檚 been honest with you. Sadly she鈥檚 dating there is no going back for her.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 12495   路   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8754169
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sleepylove ( member #68848) posted at 4:04 AM on Wednesday, September 7th, 2022

She says she "can鈥檛 find feelings" because she is most likely enamored with someone else.

She has disconnected from you because she has created a connection elsewhere.

Her antennas are now raised because she knows that you are suspicious. It will now be tougher to perform surveillance. It is probably not necessary at this point.

You need to implement the 180 now. Get your distance. Don鈥檛 believe anything she is telling you.

My heart breaks for you. I know what you鈥檙e going through.

[This message edited by sleepylove at 4:06 AM, Wednesday, September 7th]

BH 49WW 49Married almost 22 years at time of AShe had an affair Dec 2017-Feb 2018Found them together 2/2/18 Final Dday 2/23/18 Still don't know the whole truthTrying to R

posts: 185   路   registered: Nov. 14th, 2018
id 8754170
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Tanner ( member #72235) posted at 4:25 AM on Wednesday, September 7th, 2022

I鈥檓 sorry it came to this. Now it鈥檚 time to detach. No cuddling, no discussions of how you are feeling. I understand you still love her but she doesn鈥檛 love you, someone else has her attention.

You are not friends, she is the enemy of your family, marriage and future. It鈥檚 time to treat her that way. She is destroying everything you know, and you want to keep it friendly?

You are in shock, time to get angry, detach and give her freedom.

Again I鈥檓 sorry it came to this but it鈥檚 time let Mr Wonderful swoop in and save her.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R
BH M 31 years

posts: 1795   路   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   路   location: Texas DFW
id 8754172
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 Lonelyinlove2 (original poster new member #80620) posted at 2:05 PM on Wednesday, September 7th, 2022

I guess I still have hope and I know I am most likely prolonging the inevitable. My gut is usually pretty spot on and I feel like she is not in a relationship but also feel like she is probably feeling like there is someone or some type of adventurous life she is missing out on as her clock ticks. She said she has several friends that are in very similar situations. Hard working husbands with wives that are just bored with life.

She does not spend much time with any of them and she never goes out to bars.... our home life is very routine and she is always at home every day at 4:30 when I stop working so that has never changed. If there is someone else I believe it is a online thing and perhaps that is what she feels she is missing out on.

posts: 20   路   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2022   路   location: Eastern WA
id 8754194
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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 2:36 PM on Wednesday, September 7th, 2022

Humans are social animals. We bond with others as we are built to feed off of interactions with others. If someone fell out of love what they are really saying is they neglected the bonds with that person and used that energy to create bonds elsewhere. You may be right in that she's not bonding with one person, but she's feeding off connections with randoms instead of you. Either way that disconnection is more intentional than an just drifting apart. It's like saying that your houseplants just died, when you didn't take time to water them.

Since you now know that she's mentally left the marriage, you need to take steps to protect yourself. Mentally and financially. It just became more dangerous to you as the confrontation will be seen in her mind as an ok to move further away from you. You know now, so there's no reason to resist seeking love elsewhere. Waywards are selfish and will abuse your good nature to get anything they want. Right now you represent a safe haven and comfortable roommate. Besides you deserving more that that what happens when a super special sparkly NRE with someone makes her decide to replace you entirely. Protect yourself and your family. Detach your self emotionally and financially.

Treat her as just a co-parent as that is the role she selected for herself. You're right in that you can't compete with NRE. But disconnecting and moving on with life without her will also highlight what she is giving up with you. Likely not enough at this point but let her live like the single person she's decided to be.

[This message edited by grubs at 2:46 PM, Wednesday, September 7th]

posts: 1301   路   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8754199
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 7:48 PM on Wednesday, September 7th, 2022

Many serial killers went home and slept next their wives or GF and were good kind people for all
Appearances.

They still killed people.

Just like you wife had said, there鈥檚 no going back for her. And she鈥檚 looking to others for her "connection". Not you her H.

She鈥檚 cheating. On you. On your marriage.

Sadly she does it in your home. How awful.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 12495   路   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8754237
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