SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I keep trying to convince myself it’s just a phase.

Sounds like the end of your marriage phase.

Hurts like hell but there it is.

If you continue on, full of hopium, it's death by a thousand cuts. If she's not already, she'll be living with you and going on dates with other men not caring what you think. You don't really matter any more.

OP, guys that do best in your situation are ones that act decisively and accept the reality their wife has moved on.

What do you do? You move on. She wants another life? OK lady, divorce. Talk to a lawyer, give her divorce papers.

Get selfish, only look out for your kids and yourself. That is going to keep you very busy. You don't have time or energy for a woman who betrays you like this and wants her own life. No compliments, no help with her car, no affection, she can pay her own bills. That's all hers now, she's fired you from the job of caring husband.

You're in indecisive dream land right now, snap out of it.

Sorry you've found yourself here man.

I know that everyone is reading between the lines here and assuming that a affair is happening or has happened and I kinda thought that’s where it was before, but I do not believe that is the case. Perhaps some inappropriate online communication. I guess you can call that a affair of sorts but it is more like it’s coming from boredom and attention seeking. Her home/work patterns have not changed and she never goes out in the evenings. We are home as a family every night starting at 5:00 every day. I have no real evidence of a affair.

However, my concern is the amount of effort she is putting into her appearance is much higher than in the past, but that could be the fear of getting older that I mentioned before.

I know you all think I am in denial about the affair but believe me when I say I am very much paying attention and it just doesn’t seem to be the case. Do I fear that the right (wrong) situation is going to happen and lines will get crossed. Yah. That is a fear and also why I am hear. I would like to figure out a way to avoid this before it’s too late.

I am just thinking that her love is gone (and not because of a affair). Maybe just a marriage that has ran it coarse for her. Maybe surviving INFIDELITY is not where I can find these answers since that may not be the case here after all. I think maybe I went to the affair because I would have to have a affair or a relationship with someone in order to loose feelings for her. Everything in our lives seems so great to me but I think she thinks she’s missing out on something.

Is there a website called "surviving your wife just not loving you anymore?😢

Hi LiL2,

While you may not have discovered an actual A, how long are you willing to put up with her behavior in your M? Sexy photos posted online, not sent directly to you ONLY? That's weird right there...

Either way, your wife is not respecting you and your M. Regardless of an A or not, it sounds like she is trolling for the "right" opportunity. Ask me how I know...

From your posts, it sounds like you live in fear and are completely demoralized. It's no wonder- she keeps trashing the exclusivity of your M with sexy pics and flirtatious talk online.

What are YOU willing to do about your M in its current state? What about YOU? YOU are in this M too. This is YOUR life and YOUR M. How do YOU want to spend it? Some questions to answer for yourself, and I ask that you review and think on them this week, please think them over:

-What does a M YOU want for YOURSELF look like? Focus on behavior of a hypothetical spouse, not your current one.

-What kinds of things do YOU value in a hypothetical spouse? What qualities (skip appearance beyond healthy and cared for)?

-What principles are important to you in any relationship (friendship, family, co-worker, SO)? Do things like honesty, loyalty, openness (even sharing the bad) and respect matter to you?

-Finally, how does your current M/ spouse compare to your list?

It's not selfish to think about what YOU want out of life. In fact, I've learned that it's really deceitful not to express your wants and needs. How is it fair for any spouse to me married to a partner who literally refuses to exist and share their uniqueness? YOU are unique and valuable. YOU have been given gifts to offer another person. Someone who is worthy of them and will appreciate them. Are you appreciated now? Does your wW value them now? Does she even SEE you? Why are you in a relationship with someone who doesn't even see the person they are with?

Inappropriate online activity with men, plus her hyper focus on her appearance, plus a wife who has told her husband she is bored,no longer loves him as she should,and agreed to a divorce, equals a wife,fishing for an affair partner. If she hasn't found a few already.

From what you've said, you're ok with her flirting with men,telling them she loves them(possibly),giving them her attention, sending naked pics,etc,as long as she is home every night for dinner.

You're playing with fire.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:54 PM, Monday, September 12th]

I recall years ago when I was sent to clean up a recent acquisition, there was a woman (director level) in their purchasing department who I discovered was carrying multiple affairs during the average work day.

This woman had liaisons during lunch (at various hotels) with multiple paramours and during the day with the IT manager. The entire time she would go home at a nominal hour and her husband was completely oblivious. He would attend various company events and apparently nothing was ever said to him, although it was in fact common knowledge. All this happened during the work day and she carried on her regular life at home.

We, of course, dismissed her not because of the actual affairs outside of the company, however, she was using her office and of course her desk for her interludes with the gentleman from IT. I recall being curious about how many butt prints and bodily fluids her on that desk.

The point of what I'm saying is that because she comes home at the regular hour does not mean she is not on a desk somewhere or at a hotel for lunch/meeting/appointment.

She isn't sending these photos to herself nor guarding her phone without reason. Hidden APPS, Tiktok, many many way to hide communication as well.

Lonely, I have read through this thread and am replying to your post because you asked for a woman’s opinion. Here it is. I am a WW. What you described about your W is exactly my story. In 2017 I told my BH about an EA I had with a mutual friend. Nothing physical but it did open me up to realizing what was missing with my H. Instead of leaning into my marriage, I pulled away and put up walls. A very bad choice on my part which I regret. Also at that time I met someone who became a very strong attachment emotionally and it lead to a PA. I started going to the gym (was late 30’s) and started caring about my appearance. I loved taking pictures of my new found appearance and started sending these to AP who gave me lots of positive feedback. I was also very protective of my phone and never left it laying around. My EA happened over Snapchat btw. By September 2018 I told my H I didn’t think I was in love with him anymore. My H was shocked and started trying to "win me back". The problem was, by the time I realized I was so disconnected and removed from my emotional attachment to my H, it didn’t matter what he did. I was completely numb. My heart had left the marriage. For years I had felt emotionally neglected in my marriage and all of a sudden I felt beautiful, I felt wanted, I felt needed….by my AP. I had closed my heart to my H and was indifferent and a block of ice. All of this was extremely wrong of me, I take full responsibility for my choices and how I deeply hurt my spouse. I make no excuses, I am trying to explain things so our OP can understand what his wife might be experiencing.

My H would say, what do you want? What do you need? I would say I need xyz. He would do xyz and I still would feel nothing. He would get frustrated and tired and stop doing xyz. I would see him pulling back and get scared. I didn’t want to lose him and my family so I would warm up. I would tell myself I would try to work it out and I would reach out to him. He would respond after a short time and open up to me again. This would trigger my resentment for the past years and I would shut down again.

I think this is what’s happening with you and your spouse. She is getting her affirmations elsewhere and is ambivalent to you. I don’t know about your emotional intimacy with your wife but I would seriously look into Intimacy Avoidance or Intimacy Anorexia. I became emotionally involved long before the PA started, I wasn’t into the sex, it was about the emotional connection and verbal affirmations.

Fast forward my story to 2022. I ended my A Sept 2021 but he reached out in Feb wanting to reconnect. At that point I was thoroughly done with my disgusting behavior and refused to re-engage. I disclosed the A to my H and DDay 1 was Feb 9th followed by full disclosure two months later. We have since been talking daily and I am seeing two separate IC and maintaining zero contact with APs. Upon disclosure I immediately turned on location tracking on my phone, my BH has full access to all email and any online accounts. I deleted Snapchat. I disabled social media. These things are a small step in the right direction and if your wife was wanting to work on saving the M she would be doing the same. It sounds like she is ready to walk and her behavior is setting the stage for an exit A if it isn’t already in progress.

This is excruciating and I am truly sorry for your heartache. I am so regretful for my choices as well and I hope for your sake your wife will wake up and realize she has a gem (I certainly did). You are worth far more than what she is giving and I hope you do some individual work to gain some self respect and gain some boundaries. Don’t settle, I am fortunate that my H is giving me a chance at healing my disfunction and I’m going to keep being honest and forthcoming in everything I do. I wish you well in your journey to truth.

LiL2, PLEASE listen to H4U. Her story is EXACTLY my friend T's story. I almost thought it was her posting, but she's in MI and we don't have mountains anywhere!

This is exactly what us WW's do. I recognize a lot of my own story in hers. Mine wasn't so heavily involved with pics and SM trolling as hers as I had a PA with a COW. BUT, the resentment, indifference, pulling back, leaning in see-saw is exactly what I've done in the past and struggle with to this day.

A or not, you deserve better. It's time to start asserting yourself in your M and go get it. Whether it's with her, or a D, SOMETHING needs to change.

If you stay in the M, waiting on your wW to change is a roll of the dice. You CAN'T nice her back, you CAN'T force her to change. She has to want it for herself. She has to be so sick of herself and her life that she pursues the change.

So, how do you make changes? Start with yourself. Read the 180. I implemented a soft 180 and I'm starting to see results in our M. Boundaries are being more respected, work is being done on his end. He's made that choice, but I had to leave room/space for him to make it. Hovering and forcing and manipulating (via begging and pleading) are not going to make lasting change in your wW.

I use the small w for "wayward" because she has not been caught out in an A. Again, if she's not in an active A (which is doubtful), she's fishing for one.

You don't bait the hook unless you want to land a fish. She's got enough bait out there to land a whale.

Healing4u/MIgander Thanks for sharing. These are the gems I am looking for. I understand where the folks that are just saying that it’s time to burn this shit to the ground because she is cheating are coming from and perhaps they are right. But... I really do love her and I know she loves me so I/we owe it to our family and ea other to really make sure there is not other option. So for my simple little fix-it brain I just gotta understand what I am dealing with here. I am also fully aware everybody that maybe it isn’t fixable and that’s ok too. One thing that I can feel happening is that every day I am feeling more able to let her go and find what I really need. Although I am not really looking forward to it, I know I can handle it if there is no saving this shitshow.

She has not been on her phone anywhere close to where she was before so I do not feel that weird tension when I walk into the room. I assume her passcode to her phone is the same as it was the last time I checked, but that’s been a couple weeks and at this point I know she is smart enough to just hide things better if there’s anything to hide. I have backed way off of the cat and mouse game where I am trying to sneak into her phone every time I see it unattended (which is often lately).

I still get hung up on things like.. why is she getting so dolled up for the gym (basically putting on eye makeup) and convince myself I am being over critical and just have to accept that just because she doesn’t want to look like shit when she goes to the gym does not have to mean anything.

The change in phone behavior was like a light switch that happened after I blew up and was ready to throw in the towel after seeing her taking pics of herself by the pool. I still don’t know if it is even right of me to condemn her for wanting to see pics of herself. I guess I have to assume someone else may be seeing these but she says that’s not the case and I have no proof so....?

I have really backed way off as far as the amount of space I am giving her. I have started exercising after work and I am careful to watch when she gets home and just avoid contact and slip downstairs to work out for a couple hrs. Combines with some Other things like yard work... I usually stay busy and give her some space until 7pm. That gives us a few hrs from 7-10 where we are in the same room watching TV.... this usually looks like me watching our show next to her on her laptop looking at clothes or scrolling tictok (I also do these things sometimes because I feel awkward laying there like I’m invisible waiting for a hug or a kiss. Hugs or kisses rarely happen unless I initiate and then I feel like a chump so I put my effort into avoidance but inside I feel like shit.

I know that in her mind it is unrealistic for couples to still have that same spark after 22 years that they had in the beginning and I know that is true. But there has to still be some sort of fire still burning deep down right? I know it’s still does for me but maybe that’s just out of fear?

Her true focus other than the kids, household stuff (which is a long list). We have a child graduating this year and many upcoming events/trips, that she is dealing with. She is amazing at keeping this life we have created running smoothly. Our relationship just seems to be at the back of the line for her but at the front of the line for me. This causes major mental struggles for me. I find myself making lists about how I feel because the thoughts just swirl around and if I don’t write em down I just swirl onto the next thought. Here’s my latest one. I usually throw em away but this one is still on my desk. I never show these to her and I know that she would just feel pressured and wonder what else I expect since she already changed her phone habits...

I am sorrry that...

My happiness depends on your happiness and approval and that is too much pressure

My acts of kindness are shown because that is what I crave to get in return. (Little notes etc... I stopped doing this BTW)

I mentally go to "there must be someone else because that’s what it would take or me pull so far away from you"

This all creates a viscous cycle that feeds my insecurity and mistrust.

Afraid that the only thing left is my love for you and that your effort is put into carefully avoiding leading me on.

Your happiness and desires do not include me, my happiness and desires ONLY include you. Staying in this situation WE BOTH LOOSE.

This is the cheesy shit that is floating in my head CONSTANTLY. She has never been a super affectionate person and did not grow up in a loving household (I very much did). So the behavior is not really that different than it ever has been. The main difference is her obsession with her appearance and the jeleously i carry around from it. This is why I don’t think there is a right answer or a fix. I know I can’t say "you need to get fat and ugly for this to work out". And do I want her to be forced to love me harder? Do I just settle and be happy I have a beautiful wife and a amazing life with great kids. She’s A very independent person and she will do just fine if we split up. I am still trying to convince myself that I would be and let’s just say that she isn’t having a affair. Is it worth Getting a divorce because I don’t get enough hugs?

Thanks for listening everyone. I swear. I am really not as cheesy and needy as this all sounds. Even though I feel like I have been pushed into what feels like the emotional female part of this relationship, that is really not my nature so not sure how it turned into this. I am a manly kind of guy into motocross, hunting, fishing, shooting and my hobbies keep me plenty busy outside of our relationship. But it has always been apparent that she is my number one priority. So maybe I have made it too easy to be taken for granted? At this point I feel like I could back myself out of the house and live on my own and nobody would notice I’m gone. Not a good feeling.

[This message edited by Lonelyinlove2 at 4:07 PM, Tuesday, September 13th]

The next time she gets all dolled up to go to the gym, get into your workout clothes,and tell her you are going with her. That this is something the two of you can start doing together. Her reaction will say a lot. So will the reaction of the men when you get to the gym.

Women typically don't get dolled up to go to the gym. We sweat. Which ruins makeup. I know I don't do my makeup before I workout. And,neither do most of the women at my gym. There are a few. But they aren't there to workout. A few of them spend their time flirting. A few sit there,until what is very clearly their AP shows up,and they leave together. I've been there when the man comes back,alone. A few times I've heard him and his buddies joke about the small back-seat.

Again..it would be very easy for you to find the truth. But you don't seem interested in digging.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:07 PM, Tuesday, September 13th]

At this point I feel like I could back myself out of the house and live on my own and nobody would notice I’m gone. Not a good feeling

.

That's heartbreaking, and explains so much.

I'm sorry if you've already answered but are you in IC? This goes so much deeper than your wife's phone usage (which you are choosing to focus on).

There is salvation from emeshment and neediness (yes, neediness) but comes after a lot hard work, generally with the help of a good professional. Please consider it!

Another aspect of this is her age and what starts happening to women in our 40's. We are starting menopause. Our hormones are all whackadoodle and we're starting to age more noticeably. Women at our age tend to seek out validation and have a deep sense of "not having it" any more. There are numerous stories here about women in our early 40's suddenly seeking outside validation as our fertility is coming to an end.

My kids are in elementary/middle school. I'm still relatively young, but menopause goes early in my fam. I'll likely be done by 45. My perimenopause is starting, hormones all over the place and hot sweats galore. TMI? I'm sharing this to let you know that I can directly relate to what your wife may be experiencing.

Last bird flying the nest? Her role as mother is changing at a radical level. Her identity as a young, fertile and "vibrant" woman and mother are drastically changing and being swept away. What does that leave her with? Wife? She's got a lot on her own mind.

HOWEVER, this does NOT excuse her choices. My H has engaged in various EA's during the course of our M. He was struggling with my mental health and aggressive way of handling conflict. Instead of leaning in and demanding changes and doing his own 180 or getting help, he pulled away and indulged in longing thoughts and negative comparisons and "if only W was like HER's."

Your wife is CHOOSING to ignore you, snap sexy photos of herself to USE AS BAIT. I guarantee you the vast majority of females do NOT take sexy pictures of our selves unless there is an intended audience. Why not ask her, "I've noticed you snapping sexy pictures of yourself lately. You know, I think you're incredibly sexy and would LOVE to have some of those for myself. Could you start sending them to me?" If she prevaricates at all... you have your answer. Those pics are not for YOU or for HERSELF.

She is fishing for an A.

It's time to start giving a shit about HER problems. Right now, you M doesn't exist- you're room mates. If she wanted a M with you, she has to hold up her end of generating sparks. It's common after being mired in kids, job, household for years that we come together as somewhat strangers at the empty nest time. BUT, that is a result of our MUTUAL CHOICES. My H and I are by no means getting along perfectly right now, but we've decided (in the middle of child rearing and jobs) to take time for date nights at least 2x a month. We've seen a good improvement in the baseline perception of our relationship... when I'm not busy being angry at him for his latest EA.

Either way, yes, clinginess and dependence on the other to MAKE you happy are UNATTRACTIVE and REPELLANT to lovers. Yes, maybe you pushed her away by pulling her in too hard. Time to back off.

180. Work on yourself. Give HER the space to fix herself. Maybe if that happens, she might grow into a person worthy of being in a M with you. If, after several months, she shows no sign of changing her behavior or escalation of it, it may be time to consider S or D.

Wishing you the best. Remember, your future is your responsibility. If you refuse to take that responsibility on yourself, it is YOUR CHOICE. The resulting life you live will still be the result of your choices- refusing to choose an action is still a choice.

Have you two sat down and discussed what success would look like for the two of you at this point in your marriage? She appears to be looking for something, could you both define that together and strive toward it together?

And do I want her to be forced to love me harder?

Of course you don't want her to be forced, but she has to shit or get off the pot.

Doing what she's doing to you right now, and I checked my dictionary, and love [luhv] verb (used with object) does NOT include the phrase "make your partner an insecure, emotional wreck."

She is not only bad at the verb application of the word, she's also unsure that she's in the noun application of the word.

Pulling the 180, be it soft or hard, will make her do so. She has a hard decision to make.

Realize that you're not the only one with hard decisions to make. But it's time to sack up and tell her that she can't continue to behave this way. Don't say why. She knows what she's doing. You'd know what you were doing if the roles were reversed, right?

Question for you: Does your wife come home from the gym all sweaty and gross, or does she look as good as she did when she left?

When I started going to the gym, I put on makeup. Then after like 2 visits, I realized it was stupid, and I wasn't there for anyone but me, and stopped doing so.

If she's coming home looking as dolled up as when she left, she's getting a workout alright, but it ain't at no gym!

It’s very important to pay attention to what Healing4us and MIgander are saying. They know the road you Wife is on better than any of us. My WW did exactly what your W is doing, male validation is like an drug and has to be escalated. My WW got bored with sexting and EA’s and ended up finding a stranger in a bar to hook up with, she then went 2 months PA with him.

When I found out she was already bored with that AP and was seeking another PA. It wasn’t until I set her free to do whatever she wanted, but not in my marriage, when she finally woke up. I was headed for the attorney on the following Monday.

I would have done anything to keep it from happening. You have to get ahead of this and blow it up. She’s not a friend she’s, she’s playing with fire and will burn your marriage down.

[This message edited by Tanner at 6:22 PM, Tuesday, September 13th]

Thanks again. Tanner. Believe me. I am reading the posts from these ladies over and over again. I guess my fear is that I know what she is going to choose when I force the issue. I already feel like I am just in the way of whatever is pulling her away and whatever she feels she is missing out on. I am certain that my constant detective work and reading between the lines is getting old for her too. Every day it just becomes more apparent that I just have to set her free.

I guess my fear is that I know what she is going to choose when I force the issue.

That which you fear happening is much better than staying and letting her actions corrode your soul until she moves on her own. Set her free. Sometimes that is enough of a wake up call. When it's not, it's still better than the alternative of being just a convenient roommate until she finds someone else to which to monkey branch.

Perhaps it could be setting yourself free......

I guess my fear is that I know what she is going to choose when I force the issue.

Force her to choose, while you focus on self improvement. Remember, she will be choosing a fantasy with a dude in cyberspace living with his mom in a basement eating Hot Pockets. He’s nothing but a loser with no social skills, looking for lonely wives on a computer. You cannot tell her this, she won’t believe you. You cannot compete with a fantasy. You have to set her free to find out on her own, while you become the best you can be.

[This message edited by Tanner at 10:09 PM, Tuesday, September 13th]

Another bit of insight from a WW. I thought when I told my H that I wasn’t in love, married life wasn’t for me, Etc…I thought he would throw his hands up, hang his head and walk away. I thought he would accept what I said and not fight for us. To my absolute surprise, he didn’t. He worked harder than ever to be present and listen and show he was not going to let me walk away without a fight. That’s exactly what I needed because I had convinced myself he didn’t care. I made the huge huge mistake of turning to another for love when it was right in front of me. Because my H didn’t let me go, I saw his heart and that I did matter to him. That is what brought me back to a place where I could fight for us too. I just wish I had chosen to fight for us instead of push him away. Thankfully, he is still willing to try and reconcile. I know I don’t deserve it. Don’t give up Lonely, maybe she is hoping you will fight for her. Don’t lay down and let her walk on you though. She won’t respect that. Keep working on yourself. Keep working out, keep doing your hobbies. Be intentional with your time with her and let her know you want her but you have boundaries too. Tell her that she has a time limit to decide if she is going to go to couples counseling with you and fully commit to the M or a separation date is the alternative. It’s tough but that is what I needed to get my head out of my ass.

Where can I find the specifics on the "180". "Soft 180". I think I get the principals here but are the specific guidelines or just a common sense situation of backing out and stop playing the pick me game?