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Bonetired ( member #78518) posted at 2:04 PM on Saturday, April 24th, 2021

I am currently watching a video from Dr.Ramani on grey rock technique on youtube.It's pretty informative.If you want you could watch actually I think I did this unknowingly with one ex in particular.He was piii...issed !!!It did get him out of my hair though.They always get angry in the beginning of this technique.She explains it very well.Actually study other sources on this if you decide to implement it.From what I am seeing it's easy to screw it up.

[This message edited by Bonetired at 8:34 AM, April 24th (Saturday)]

posts: 340   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2021   ·   location: Grand Rapids
id 8653633
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 Venus1 (original poster member #77144) posted at 6:14 AM on Friday, April 30th, 2021

I LOVE the support everyone provides each other on SI! So lucky to have found this resource, and all of you. Thanks for checking in.

@ EllieKMAS you are like my personal cheerleader! 😊 Haha

The shenanigans with my STBWxH continued after my last post! He did NOT like my response about changing the locks. Some of the latest in his emails:

I’d like to salvage our friendship.

It is my own f*cking home that I have bled for to buy, so don't confuse the fact that you live there means it's only your home. It’s still mine, I just do not reside there anymore.

I don’t have the option but getting proceedings going through email, which sucks after all the time we've been together by the way.

I just want this to all be over, I can't sleep, I can't eat, I want it to be done and feel like you are going to just screw me over through it all. I don’t want you turning me into a punching bag for horrible things I've done.

A few things come to mind:

• You are a total narc!

• Oh, poor baby! You can’t eat or sleep? Sorry, not sorry.

• We aren’t ever going to be friends you arrogant jerk! Who would want to be friends with someone like you?

• You don’t want to be a punching bag? Um, what have you been doing to me for months then exactly?

• There is a difference between a home and a house that you have a financial interest in. Too bad you didn’t see the difference when you lived here.

• Guess you should have thought this through before you cheated on me! You made your bed, so now you can sleep in it. I refuse to emotionally support you through our D!

@Freeme, you would be so proud. I have maintained NC outside of confirming our mediation time/date.

I’ve realized that my STBxH is starting to see that he can’t make all the decisions in order to execute his fantasy world. Reality is a bit of a shock for him. Being told he can’t have his cake and eat it too, and the fact that I’m standing up for myself and avoiding contact, is a rude awakening for him. He might realize how much I actually did do for him, how much I did support him, and that I was his ‘safety’ net. I honestly think he thought I'd support him emotionally through our D and that I would accept his fake apology or ask him to come home by now.

I do fear it will get worse before it will get better though. I really do take 3 steps forward and 2 steps back emotionally / mentally, which overall is a good thing because I feel stronger every day. But, his behavior is so erratic I never know which person I'm going to get! Will I get kind WH, threatening WH, mean WH, reasonable WH, blaming WH, angry WH, etc. So, I'll keep doing NC as much as possible and protect myself.

@ChamomileTea - my STBWxH doesn't understand how threatening his behavior has been. That him trying to get into the house without my permission makes me scared about his stability because he can't even respect boundaries. It just proves how little he understands how much pain he's caused and how his erratic behavior comes off to me and others around him.

@Bonetired – A friend of mine turned me on to Dr. Ramani’s YouTube channel and it has been a lifesaver! I’ve learned so much about narc behaviors and how to manage through them. Some days I do better than others, but it’s a step in the right direction. I had no idea there was so much terminology around this ... such a wakeup call. I did reach out to her admin and asked if she could do a video on narcs and the entitlement around infidelity. She is planning on doing a video in the future!

Saturday we have a mediation with my STBWxH, and I won’t lie … I’m really nervous! TONS of anxiety. Please send me some of those good vibes SI! I know I've got to leave all the emotions and grief out of it, but that is SOOOO difficult when I'm only 4 months into this dang trauma.

Me: BS (39) Him: WS (40)
13.5 years married, 16 years together
D-day: 1Jan2021 Confronted: 2Jan2021
Currently Separated after confirmation of 'exit affair'
Filed for D May 2021

posts: 113   ·   registered: Jan. 15th, 2021   ·   location: California
id 8655268
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rugswept ( member #48084) posted at 10:42 AM on Friday, April 30th, 2021

You have found the total benefits of the hard 180 approach.

Do you see the benefit of going in with you're the decision maker and the person who decides about you and about you and your WS. And, he's the typical he just can't believe what you're becoming, that's he's no longer in charge and you're not lapping up his excuses. How Dare You!

He thought he could schmooze you, eventually blame shift all onto you where he'd come out the victim on the other side. Alas, the 180 is completely the opposite of all of that. He's nothing, you're everything and he can go cry to his mother.

They have NO idea what they did to us. NONE.

Do not flinch, do not show any possibility of retreat. The crazier he gets, the more sullen and cold should be your response. Let him twist slowly in the wind. He did this.

R'd (rug swept everything) decades ago.
I'm big on R. Very happy marriage but can never forget.

posts: 958   ·   registered: Jun. 2nd, 2015   ·   location: Northeast US
id 8655316
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Freeme ( member #31946) posted at 12:28 PM on Friday, April 30th, 2021

@Freeme, you would be so proud. I have maintained NC outside of confirming our mediation time/date.

Your right! I'm super proud. Wow..and his messages ... he's been throwing out anything and everything to get a response from you.

While your responses (to us about him) were spot on and not flattering to him. If they were sent they would have fed his ego. He would have thought "I've still got to Venus," I've still got control.

Instead he's switching personalities, moods, response just trying to see what will get a rise out of you. NC is the perfect response. You are doing great!

I don’t have the option but getting proceedings going through email, which sucks after all the time we've been together by the way.

This one made me the most angry because I remember how he handled your D-day. Wanted to seperate, not talk, blameshifting...and everything else...Then divorce. Same thing. The marriage had to end...no reason for discussion...but now...he doesn't understand why you can't talk while going through the divorce? Be friendly? Supportive? This is when he chooses to pull the "we've been together for a long time card?"

I honestly think he thought I'd support him emotionally through our D and that I would accept his fake apology or ask him to come home by now.

I agree with this also. From your first post you seem like a very stable, rational person. He's hooking up with a married Cam-girl. I doubt he is getting much beyond sex, flattery, and debt from her.

Keep strong. You can do this. Non emotional Mediation.

I also believe he wants this over with because of money problems not because of the emotions involved. Make sure your lawyer knows this and use it to your advantage.

I also want to add that I don't trust him in the house without supervision. Part of me thinks its a control thing but...

If it were just a narc thing I would think he would want you there to see him in the house. See that he can still do what he wants.

It seems like he wants access without you around...without you knowing... Like he wants something inside and he doesn't want you to know he's taking it. Could be legal info or just things to sell. It's just strange that he is pushing for access but not for anything specific.

[This message edited by Freeme at 7:18 AM, May 1st (Saturday)]

posts: 2803   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2011   ·   location: Washington DC
id 8655323
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fareast ( member #61555) posted at 1:38 PM on Friday, April 30th, 2021

Super proud of you! Keep finding your strength! Sending you support for your mediation. No contact is the best way forward, but if you must interact, gray rock! Give him no emotions. Learn: “I’m sorry you feel that way.” Good luck.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 2797   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8655333
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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 2:44 PM on Friday, April 30th, 2021

Giiiiirrrrrl. I will rah-rah all day long cus I am cheering on the winning team here lol

Seriously though - watching your journey has been really incredible. 3.5 months. You were (like I was too) a total wreck when you first got here, and now look at you, from broken to fucking BADASS. You should be VERY proud of yourself and your strength. It's truly a wonder to behold.

You're in the home stretch honey - get this D done with and NC this douche for good. Life after is gonna be amazing for you!

I’d like to salvage our friendship.

I don’t have the option but getting proceedings going through email, which sucks after all the time we've been together by the way.

I just want this to all be over, I can't sleep, I can't eat, I want it to be done and feel like you are going to just screw me over through it all. I don’t want you turning me into a punching bag for horrible things I've done.

OMG, mine said almost these same things... poor wittle narcmuffin. Reality just sucks, doesn't it? You're doing great - none of this drivel warrants a response. Just keep ignoring his bluster. It may ramp up cus he is desperate to get some response from you, but likely after a period of that he will go away. Narcs feed on drama, so when you cut off his supply so completely he will not have a reason to keep trying to get it from you. Stay the course Venus.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"Being weird is just a side effect of being awesome."– Unknown

posts: 3145   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
id 8655377
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Pandora16 ( member #56906) posted at 5:45 PM on Friday, April 30th, 2021

When you go for mediation, see if you can find a friend to go with you. They won’t be able to go into the mediation room with you, but having that moral support close by might help your nerves.

I had a friend offer to do this when my ex and our lawyers and I got together, and it really, really helped.

D-Day #1 12/8/16 (ILYBINILWY), D-Day #2 12/17/16 (admitted to affair)

Divorced: 10/24/17
Married 20 years, together 24, 1 young adult son

posts: 251   ·   registered: Jan. 15th, 2017
id 8655549
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ZenMumWalking ( member #25341) posted at 8:31 PM on Friday, April 30th, 2021

poor wittle narcmuffin. Reality just sucks, doesn't it?

Me (BS), Him (WH): late-50's
3 DS: 26, 25, 22
M: 30+ (19 1/2 at Dday)
Dday: Dec 2008
Wanted R, not gonna happen
Used to be DeadMumWalking, doing better now

posts: 8408   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2009   ·   location: EU
id 8655628
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Bonetired ( member #78518) posted at 11:18 PM on Friday, April 30th, 2021

I am proud of you too.Please keep is informed.While going through mediation just imagine us there with you.Maybw have your phone in eyesight knowing we are there with you.Hopes and prayers for you Venus.

posts: 340   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2021   ·   location: Grand Rapids
id 8655708
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ChamomileTea ( member #53574) posted at 11:43 PM on Friday, April 30th, 2021

I'm so glad you posted. I was wondering how you were doing, a little worried too because it's not easy to divorce a narc. They think they own every goddam thing including YOU.

It is my own f*cking home that I have bled for to buy, so don't confuse the fact that you live there means it's only your home. It’s still mine, I just do not reside there anymore.

Remember a month or so ago when he was flipping shit over the locks?... THAT is who he is. A guy who thinks he can cheat and lie, gaslight you, treat you like shit, and that you shouldn't question him walking around your home because he's "bled" to buy it.

No responsibility whatsoever for what he's done to your life.

If it makes you feel any better, cam-whores aren't exactly known for their career skills or work ethic, so chances are, your STBX's lifestyle will never again be what it was with you. I don't know about you, but the thought of him going to his job every day and coming back to half of what he had before FOREVER, would please me after listening to him whine about how he's "bled" for his stuff.

You, OTOH, will probably find a nice man of good means and quality when you're ready. A faithful woman who makes her own living is stock which trades high.

posts: 4530   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8655718
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ArkLaMiss ( member #14918) posted at 11:42 PM on Saturday, May 1st, 2021

Any updates, venus? Hoping all went in your favor today!

Just HOW stupid do you think I am, exactly?

posts: 1719   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2007
id 8655964
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 12:33 AM on Sunday, May 2nd, 2021

Hope you are doing ok after the mediation today 💕

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10556   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8655975
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Freeme ( member #31946) posted at 5:18 PM on Sunday, May 2nd, 2021

Saturday we have a mediation with my STBWxH, and I won’t lie … I’m really nervous! TONS of anxiety.

thinking of you. Hope everything ran smoothly but...with a Narc...You never know.

Update when you can.

posts: 2803   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2011   ·   location: Washington DC
id 8656085
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Bonetired ( member #78518) posted at 10:44 PM on Sunday, May 2nd, 2021

Hoping things went well with the mediation.Looking forward to hearing from you soon.💕

posts: 340   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2021   ·   location: Grand Rapids
id 8656128
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 Venus1 (original poster member #77144) posted at 4:53 AM on Monday, May 3rd, 2021

Thanks so much for checking in on me after my first mediation with the STBXWH! Big hugs to all my SI warriors!

Overall everything went better than I expected.  We were able to have a reasonable discussion for about 45 minutes and he conceded a few things citing he is 'leaving me' and that he 'screwed this up'.  A bit of a surprise to hear that.

However, as soon as we started talking about his business and some of his assets, things got a bit nasty! The five-year-old manchild showed up and had a bit of a temper tantrum.  I kept my cool and didn't fall for the deflection, anger, etc.  I think it caught him off guard because then he got teary and apologized for acting out.  I was the one caught off guard then, immediately feeling 'sorry' for him, even though he did all of this to himself.

I ended the mediation, as I felt too much emotion was coming into play.  So, we will have another mediation.

Also, I had agreed to him coming to the house today to pick up some things from the garage that he needed. He got here not long before I got back from running! I was wearing my stretchy pants and my tank top… Looking quite sexy if I say so myself. He says “so you’re running now? Good for you! You look good!”  I responded with, “I don’t look good. I look sexy as f*ck!” And walked into the house. I know no response would have been better (as far as NC goes), but it felt awesome to say it and see his face.  LOL

Please tell me I am not alone in this ...

Why do I so easily fall back into 'caretaker' habits with my STBXWH? I know his mannerisms so well that I can tell when he is truly hurting or having a hard time. Saturday he showed pain and loneliness and is struggling. Like I said, he has done all of this to himself, but I can't help worry about him! There is some of that love left over and narcissists use that emotional manipulation to write their narrative.

I guess the grief still continues on ...

[This message edited by Venus1 at 11:11 PM, May 2nd (Sunday)]

Me: BS (39) Him: WS (40)
13.5 years married, 16 years together
D-day: 1Jan2021 Confronted: 2Jan2021
Currently Separated after confirmation of 'exit affair'
Filed for D May 2021

posts: 113   ·   registered: Jan. 15th, 2021   ·   location: California
id 8656184
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 11:42 AM on Monday, May 3rd, 2021

You care b/c you are a good person. It’s very hard to just suddenly stop caring about your spouse or marriage.

Just don’t let him suck you in or make poor choices when it comes to the D. Obviously your attorney saw your H with his anger and knows how to deal with it.

Your STBXH needs to stop the pity party as a way of trying to manipulate you. And maybe you need to stop believing he is hurt and sad, despite what he says. I would be suspect of any that he says or does that seems “remorseful” etc.

He could be trying to merely gain your sympathy as a way to get his own way during mediation.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10556   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8656210
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Freeme ( member #31946) posted at 12:11 PM on Monday, May 3rd, 2021

Thanks for the update. I'm glad things went well.

I responded with, “I don’t look good. I look sexy as f*ck!” And walked into the house.

acceptable break of NC. HA! You're showing that your doing well and feeling good about yourself.

Why do I so easily fall back into 'caretaker' habits with my STBXWH?

Because you are a good caring person. What you have to remember is that your STBXWH is a Narc so he knows how to manipulate these feeling. Wanted your retirement... and whatever else but was bulking and feeling sorry for himself when you discussed things that he earned? He had so many other options if he was unhappy in the marriage. He ended things as harshly as he could. He doesn't get to treat you that way and then feel sorry for himself that you aren't giving him everything. This divorce needs to be fair for the both of you. Don't let him manipulate you. I'm glad you ended things rather than get emotional.

Did you get a sense he is having money problems? Is that why he was getting emotional?

posts: 2803   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2011   ·   location: Washington DC
id 8656216
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Anna123 ( member #70908) posted at 2:03 PM on Monday, May 3rd, 2021

I know his mannerisms so well that I can tell when he is truly hurting or having a hard time. Saturday he showed pain and loneliness and is struggling. Like I said, he has done all of this to himself, but I can't help worry about him! There is some of that love left over and narcissists use that emotional manipulation to write their narrative.

Yep, had the same thing happen when ex cheater was picking stuff up. We even hugged in the garage and it sent me in a downward spiral for a couple of weeks. It takes time for that bonding on your side to subside. It was wired into your system and needs to be dismantled slowly.

A tiny bit of the love still remains behind for many of us but that's okay, after time your mind is so solid on the reality of the situation the emotions no longer flair up.

Hang in there! Glad you didn't let him manipulate you!

posts: 624   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8656228
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 4:23 PM on Monday, May 3rd, 2021

Venus, it’s habit. We all fall into routines in our relationships. That’s what comes with those that are long term. You are a kind person who does not want another to be sad. Most people in your life value that, expect that. He expects it as his due but it’s not any more. Put a rubber band on you wrist and pop it every time you want rescue him.

To thine own self be true. Shakespeare

posts: 2911   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8656272
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 Venus1 (original poster member #77144) posted at 6:18 PM on Wednesday, May 5th, 2021

Title of this post: Cheating ... the gift that keeps on giving!

Thank you for reminding me that I'm a good and caring person. It's amazing how you can forget your good qualities when you deal with the trauma of infidelity and are constantly questioning reality because of the gaslighting your WS lays on. Anyone else have days where you just don't 'feel' like yourself as a result? I've had a few of those this week following mediation.

I think the 1stWife is right. My STBXWH may be using the waterworks or his being stressed / overwhelmed as a way to manipulate me to get what he wants. He knows he will get sympathy from me because I am a caretaker, that in the past I would be sympathetic and would do anything for him. He can use that to his advantage, so I need to tread lightly. It's tough though to not believe he is hurt and sad, despite what he says, as he has gone through a loss too. But, he does have those narc tendencies and therefore I feel like I can't believe anything he says or does. God, old habits really do die hard!

I do get the impression that my STBXWH is having money issues, as he keeps mentioning that he is 'broke' or needs to sell his truck to make ends meet. Having a dual income helped support his ability to do things and have toys, and I don't think he really thought his actions through before hand and what the overall impact would be to his finances. But, this is what he wanted, right? To go our separate ways, be single, to go 'find himself'? He's gotta take the good with the bad.

I will be thankful when I have completely shed 180lbs of bullsh!t from my life!

As for the title of this post -

Monday I went to my annual female exam and my doctor took a biopsy and re-tested me for STDs. Things can show up more than 4-6 weeks after exposure, and since I had my first STD tests in January right after D-day, better be safe than sorry and look into it. F#CK! I'm so . Fingers crossed everything is still fine, but the emotional / mental anxiety is overwhelming. I feel so violated and dirty because I never consented to be exposed to the OW and whatever number of partners she's actively involved with. And does my STBWXH know or care to know? Of course not! It's all about him.

I have learned that infidelity is the 'gift' that keeps on giving (insert sarcasm of course). It's something that stays with you for a lifetime. I loved my STBXWH so completely that I know his infidelity will always be a scar on my heart. Healed of course, but always there. I know that I will get stronger everyday and be 'ok', but I never knew how much infidelity impacted the BS from a physical, mental and emotional perspective. It has changed my perspective on love, marriage, commitment, trust, etc. -- so much work on in therapy.

But, you guys would be proud! I randomly decided to book a hotel in a beautiful town about 3 hours north from where I live. 6 days for me to de-compress and just have time for myself. Haven't done this in YEARS! It's an adorable place, cute ocean / nautical decorations, and a balcony with a view of the water and island right off the coast. I can see the harbor in the distance and so far have seen deer on the property, sea lions / otters, dolphins and tons of birds. Been very relaxing. I had the realization the first night that the last time my STBXWH was in a hotel room, he was with her (I was coming from my apt Mon, so wasn't in a great space). But, I decided to 'doll' myself up and take myself out to dinner. Not about to let him ruin this for me!

Time for a hike and an adventure to remind me that I'm worth it! And the occasional snap of my hairband on my wrist (thanks Cooley LOL) when the STBXWH comes in my mind. He doesn't deserve to be here in my thoughts ... this trip is for me!

Me: BS (39) Him: WS (40)
13.5 years married, 16 years together
D-day: 1Jan2021 Confronted: 2Jan2021
Currently Separated after confirmation of 'exit affair'
Filed for D May 2021

posts: 113   ·   registered: Jan. 15th, 2021   ·   location: California
id 8656883
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