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I realize you may hate me, think I should rot in hell, or should be punished for the wrong doing I have done to you.

-all I can see is your rage in my eyes, it is very unhealthy for you

What a condescending ass-hat! This is aggressive. He is trying to make you out to be unhinged and unreasonable in some way.

Aren't you so happy you have Dr. Cheater to inform you his projection on you is unhealthy for you? What is unhealthy is any further thought of him in your mind from this day forward other than strictly logistical items. He is clearly delusional. Use your anger to propel to you to a better life without him.

The email then listed suggestions for how to split our assets. My WS wants to sell the house sooner rather than later, wants to sell all the cars so that we can split the value, he wants to part from all the items in the house since they bring back 'bad memories', he does want half of my retirement, and wants to give up the dogs so he can move out of state. Of course, he didn't list any of his assets in that list

Ha, he showed his cards! Don't respond! Now you have a list to give your lawyer. You will be starting VERY far away from that. VERY. Use his want to escape to another state against him to get him to settle for less.

Take care.

Hi Venus,

Your Ex WH sounds a lot like my ex husband. I can say that these types of personalities make reconciliation impossible. Narcissistics need a constant steady stream of people telling them how fabulous and wonderful they are because they are an empty black hole on the inside. You are attempting to hold him accountable and give him consequences for his actions and what is he doing with all that? He is spinning it to make it seem like you are so hateful. That somehow if you just weren’t such a hateful person everything would work out and be okay. He is also rewriting your marriage to make his cheating justified. Everything you are feeling is completely normal given the trauma he has inflicted upon you. He is totally incompatible of having healthy relationships. After your divorce he will swing from relationship to relationship thinking he just has to find the right partner. I know it may not seem like it now, but down the road it will be a blessing that you are rid of this type of person. After more time away from him you will begin to see more and more of his character/personality flaws and you will be glad to be rid of him. Hang in there Venus!

OMG. I have to respond to this before the horrific symptoms of my second Covid dose kick in again. I'm that angry.

Get a good lawyer now. His response was and attempt to lull you into thinking getting what you deserve is somehow being mean to him. He wants you to be the "better" person. It made me so mad I looked up the pension rules in Indiana. You can argue against giving him half your pension. If you don't fight that I'll find you and smack sense into you.

I love it. Bits of furniture in your house hold too much of an identity with you. Are there name tags all over your stuff? But half of a pile of cash with your name on it doesn't. Yeah right.

You have zero hope of reconciliation. He has made that decision for you. Now the rest of the decisions are yours. This is your life, solo for the foreseeable future. You can either treat him like the enemy he chose to be and live comfortably, or you can coast and wake up two years from now furious at yourself for not fighting harder for what you've earned. The fight will suck, but the results will be worth it.

Venus, FTG. Seriously, he is trying to pull the victim card on you.

Best response is, "I really wish you could have been happy with monogamy, but since you chose to go outside of our marriage, I'm choosing to terminate now. Please forward all your correspondence going forward to my attorney. This is for the best, and I wish you happiness that you've been lacking for so long. How so very sad that you were lonely and Sad all these years and did not have the emotional intelligence to commmunicate that to me. I wish you well and I hope you will eventually find your happiness with ABC.."

And don't respond to any future emails from him. Everytime he tries, just respond with, please forward to my attorney, and stay NC.

Best way to handle a gaslighter is to throw it all back, and go NC.

I hope you find a good attorney. Head over to the D/S forum and there are plenty of people there that can answer your questions and help you through this mess.

I disagree with HalfTime - the best response is NO response.

No contact at all is best, otherwise you’re feeding the narcissist’s ego. Let your lawyer handle all future communications.

Thank you all for the advice. I did what all of you suggested and signed my client attorney agreement. I decided that moving forward I need to have that protection in place given the erratic behavior of my STBXWH.

I felt relief and proud doing so, but I also felt completely sick to my stomach! I never wanted a divorce, in fact, it was never on the purview of possibilities for my marriage. It sort of makes me feel like I’ve given up on my marriage and subsequently makes me feel like a failure. I know that that’s just crazy talk at this point given that he is the one who destroyed our marriage.

I found out my STBXWH been forwarding his and my emails to a new email address. The email address is his name, plus her name, plus the date they first slept together. It's so disgusting and creepy. It's like they are in junior high writing their names in a heart and "4-ever" next to it. It is so wrong that he's sharing my private thoughts and his ideas on how to separate our assets with her. She's basically coaching him!

Now don’t get me wrong, if my STBXWH shared this information with a therapist or with a support group or with his trusted friends and family, I wouldn’t have such a difficult time with it. I would know that he was consulting with people that actually had his best interest at heart. Instead he’s relying on this cam whore to guide him toward divorce and it just adds insult to injury. I guess the plan is to ride off into the rainbow sunset with the cam whore and her husband/child and live happily ever after. Wake up idiot!

All that said, I really need some suggestions!

This week I’ve just really seen that my STBXWH believes I am his past, she is his present, and I’m no more than a “payout” at this point. His payout in a divorce will go a lot farther in the state he says he’s moving to than in CA. Cost of living is way higher here. I will discuss that with my lawyer for settlement purposes because he should be able to accept less as a result. Will use to my advantage. And will go to the D/S thread to get ideas.

However, think about it ... My STBXWH moves to x state with a clean slate, no one there to hold him accountable for his actions, he has cash in his pocket (in his mind making his successful at my expense) and I’m not there to defend myself. Completely leaves the old life for the new one. It’s so wrong!!! He doesn’t want to be seen as the bad guy, so I get to be the villain so that he can look like the hero in his new life. And because my STBXWHs family isn’t here, they only get his side of the story. They just think our marriage is ending as a mutual decision.

Help me rewrite this narrative! How do I stop going down that path of my STBXWHs “win” vs mine? I can’t help but feel that the bad guy always wins and us BSs are left behind suffering this immeasurable pain. I can’t believe anything he says, but the outcome rewards his behavior!

[This message edited by Venus1 at 11:06 AM, April 10th (Saturday)]

The best revenge is not giving a damn.

Get your divorced petition filed asap in your state. Make sure you have a bulldog for a lawyer. Get your fair share and let him go.

If he met her online while she did sexual things for him he is about as deep as a water drop. Sometimes people just never grow up. Hollywood makes comedies out of this but it isn’t funny.

Sending virtual hugs.

It is so wrong that he's sharing my private thoughts and his ideas on how to separate our assets with her. She's basically coaching him!

This doesn't mean that they are this "team" working toward a common goal. It could mean that she doen't trust him (he does cheat and so does she)...It could mean she has a lot of experience with divorce and getting money... doesn't fair well with a lasting relationship.

I'm proud of you for taking the steps to get a divorce. I do believe he is having money problems and is looking for a big pay out. That he needs it quickly. This might help with your negotiations.

It might seem like he's winning but what's he really got? A married cam girl. We don't really know what's going on with him. Once you out the affair to the OBS she might kick him to the curb. She might not.

You're smart, financially stable, have a house retirement, your faithful, your going to be fine. A year from now... let's see who won.

He can’t get a new start away from himself. He’ll be the same broken man there as he is here and after a while, the same habits will mean he’s just as bad in another state as he is in your state.

With regards to his family and friends, can you tell them the truth? Exposure is sometimes mentioned as a way of blowing up the affair but really, it’s your way of letting other people know who he is and letting them make decisions how how they interact with him from then. As his family, it’s likely they will support him, even if not approving what he has done, but sometimes knowing they know the truth makes a difference.

Otherwise you have to just look forward. It’s not possible to stop him communicating with the Cam girl but she may be viewing him with 💲💲in her eyes and so she may be heading for a shock if he ends up with less than she thinks he ought. Get the best lawyer you can to make sure you get as much as possible.

I found out my STBXWH been forwarding his and my emails to a new email address. The email address is his name, plus her name, plus the date they first slept together. It's so disgusting and creepy. It's like they are in junior high writing their names in a heart and "4-ever" next to it. It is so wrong that he's sharing my private thoughts and his ideas on how to separate our assets with her. She's basically coaching him!

I'm so sorry. Not surprised though. It's almost like the cheater turns into a ventriloquist dummy at this stage, with some giant skank's hand all the way up his backside making his lips flap.

I'm assuming this is an email address you kept together, right? I'd change email addy for everything that goes to that box, all bills, all contacts. Then I'd start sending articles about cheating husbands who hack into their wives' email and then go to prison. If it were me, I'd include a little email to all the personal contacts regarding why I had changed the email. It would go something like this... "Dear Friend or Family Member, I'm contacting you today in order to let you know that this email address is no longer appropriate for contacting me. That is, unless your intent is to also contact the homewrecker my STBX husband met on FILTHYPORNSITE dotcom. Apparently, my personal emails are of some twisted interest to both of them so they are having them forwarded to xyz.email which they keep together. I did think this might be of interest to some of you though, since you may not want to share your personal thoughts with other than the intended recipient. Thank you for your attention. I'll contact you from a SECURE email address soon!

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 3:00 PM, April 10th (Saturday)]

However, think about it ... My STBXWH moves to x state with a clean slate, no one there to hold him accountable for his actions, he has cash in his pocket (in his mind making his successful at my expense) and I’m not there to defend myself. Completely leaves the old life for the new one. It’s so wrong!!! He doesn’t want to be seen as the bad guy, so I get to be the villain so that he can look like the hero in his new life. And because my STBXWHs family isn’t here, they only get his side of the story. They just think our marriage is ending as a mutual decision.

These people have been your in-laws for 13 years. I'd just call them up and tell them what's going on. You can do it as a matter of sharing your concern over your WH's mental state... letting them know that he's gone off with a hooker or cam girs or something, and that he's become unrecognizable to you in terms of his behavior, that you've had to engage an attorney to protect yourself, and that it was a pleasure knowing them, good luck, etc. Yeah. No way I'd allow him to just scurry off and spring that cam whore on his unsuspecting family. They'd know where she came from before she ever darkened their doorway.

Get your settlement worked out first though. Work quickly so you can take advantage of his greed. Remember that his hurry is YOUR advantage. If he doesn't like what you're offering, remind him that you can tie his ass up for YEARS. Hell, you can keep him in court for so long that neither of you will get anything. It will ALL go to the lawyers, and I'd tell him that too.... just make sure you're not being recorded if you do.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 4:55 PM, April 10th (Saturday)]

Oh lordy.That original email from him hurt my neck!Talk about blame shifting.Yeah and gaslighting too.The fact it took him 2 weeks to respond though.He took two weeks to write that piece of shit.Also the fact he was showing your emails to cam whore (I believe that's what we SI folks) have decided to name her.Thank you Chamomile!,😁.I also thought crusty undies was a good one.Definitely would take the advice given.Go complete nc with him.He's pulling out all the stops in his attempt to continue to manipulate you and crusty pants cam whore sounds like she is helping him.He is doing everything and anything he has to right now for his gain financially.I was hoping he would feel some remorse but forgot he didn't have a soul.That's why the letter is loaded the way it is.He is trying to make you the bad guy.Wish I could help you with legal advice however I was never any good at it.My ex did the same shit though.His now wife that he cheated on me with while I was pregnant helped him lawyer up with a shark let's just say.I was too emotional to think straight. Have all correspondents go through your lawyer maybe .They are detached emotionally from this and will be able to protect you better from the fall out.As well as helping you gain as much as possible from this situation.As far as tears.That's normal and healthy.Do the crying as you need but don't let him know he hurt you or see your tears.He is still attempting to manipulate you.You need a good poker face because you don't want him to see your cards until you lay them on the table.Get another email for sure.I would feel violated that he was showing these to crusty pants cam whore.Good luck and stay strong Heartbroken.We are all here for you and are rooting for you.Hugs from me to you.

Oh yeah.I also really really would like to know you took him to the cleaners.It would be cathartic for me

It’s been awhile since I last posted, so I thought I’d share an update.

My STBXWHs behavior hasn’t changed much since my last post. His narc behaviors wave their ugly head on the daily and he finds ways to try and interact / engage with me! The blame-game, aggressive communication, gaslighting, condescension, etc. are always there. I’m so proud of myself because I can’t ‘unsee’ it now. Instead of crying after reading an email, I laugh or get angry majority of the time. And I DON’T RESPOND to him unless necessary. And when I do respond, no emotion, only business, and I never respond to his 'poor me' bull! Progress compared to the wreck I was around D-day!

Two things to share:

First, last weekend I went out with a friend for lunch. When I came home, my STBXWH was washing his corvette in the driveway! If you remember, his business stuff is in the garage and he has access until the D gets worked out, but the rule is that he gives me a heads up beforehand so that I can chose to be there, to interact, not interact, etc. I was furious that he didn’t give me a heads up! Additionally, I knew he had lied to me about going to X city for work the weekend prior. X city is where his AP is. So, I called him out on both things because, well, I was pretty pissed.

Regarding being at the house and not respecting my boundaries by giving me a heads up that he would be there –

His response, “I knew it was a mistake to come over here. This is the first time in a month and I just needed to grab something from the garage. When I saw you weren’t here I just thought I’d take care of things. Why does it matter if I give you a heads up about coming over here anyway? You trying to hide your boyfriends from me?”

Holly projection batman! I told him I found it ironic that he feels entitled to have a girlfriend and cheat on me, and continue to talk to said AP even now, but now that we are separated I am not entitled to the same thing. That he is getting jealous over the possibility that I have a boyfriend or am going on dates. What a joke! Just proves that he has NO IDEA how much pain a BS feels following infidelity! Dating or sleeping with someone else isn’t even on my radar right now.

Regarding him lying about going to X city for work –

His response, “I don’t want to hurt your feelings anymore and I know hearing X city is hard for you. I don’t want you to think that I’m seeing her when I go to X city.” So, I responded, “Well, did you see your AP while you were there?” His response, “Yes. But we just met at a coffee shop and didn’t sleep together or talk about you or our divorce.”

I basically told him that I don’t understand what he gains by continuing to lie to me. That he was already caught cheating and I don’t believe anything he says about her or what they do/don’t do together. Meeting in a public place for coffee, yea right. Not talking to her about me or our divorce, yea right. Not sleeping with her, yea right. Lies, lies, lies. I asked if he knew how much lying and continuing to talk to her hurt me, and how disgusting and disrespectful it was. He basically said yes, but (the famous ‘but’) it wasn’t my business anymore who he talked to or what he did with his life. That she provides him ‘comfort and solace’ during such a difficult time and so he will continue to do so. So, I said he was right, it isn’t my business anymore, and thank God for that!

Still hurts knowing he is talking to her without any regard to my feelings. Not surprised though!

Secondly, I got an email from my STBXWH yesterday. He confirmed our set dog schedule (FINALLY), but added something fun at the end.

"I came by and saw you changed the locks. So long as the house is still in my name too I should have a key to it, I will not ever come in to check on you but to not have access to my house (and yes it is my house still too until you buy it from me or we sell it), is not an acceptable thing in my eyes. I'm just letting you know that if I have to go to the next level to access the house I will reach out legally to do so, I hope you are willing to work with me on this."

The ARROGANCE! Legally I know I have the right to change the locks (checked with my attorney), but the only way he would know if the locks were changed is if he tried to get into the house without my permission. This is precisely why I changed the locks in the first place. Because he refuses to respect boundaries and the fact that I don't want to see him and quite frankly don't feel comfortable! If he wants to come into my home, he can request it, and I can arrange someone to be here for him to get whatever he needs. But, he doesn't need full access to the house so he can search my panty drawer, search my desk to see my paperwork for my lawyer, take things without permission, etc. He just wants CONTROL!

So I wrote back saying:

"While you have a financial interest in the house, the house is my home and my primary residence. I have requested that you respect my privacy and autonomy here at the house, just as I have respected yours at your apartment. As we are separated and getting divorced, I do not expect to have a key to your home, just as you should not expect to have a key to my home.

I've shared before that as issues arise I will be sure to address those issues, as well as bring in a house sitter / dog sitter / plumber / etc. to the house where appropriate. There is no need, while I'm here or on a trip, for you to have access to anything other than the garage. Please trust that I will protect your financial investment in the house. And please respect my boundaries."

And guess what ... crickets! But, he will have some sort of retort in a day or two, so stay tuned.

Getting my ducks in a row and doing soft 180 right now. Engaging about 20% of the time to talk through a few things and using this to my advantage for D. But, should be able to do hard 180 in another ~2-4 weeks.

If you had asked me a week after D-day that I would actively be running away in the opposite direction from my WH, I'd tell you to knock off! Never in a million years did I think I'd be here. But, to use my STBXWHs words, I've gotten some 'clarity about our relationship' and have realized that we definitely want different things, that his values are way different than mine, and that I deserve so much better. And I've decided that I want to use the next year or two to fall in love with myself again as a single, strong, independent person, and take all the energy I've invested in him and invest it in myself.

One day at a time.

If you had asked me a week after D-day that I would actively be running away in the opposite direction from my WH, I'd tell you to knock off! Never in a million years did I think I'd be here. But, to use my STBXWHs words, I've gotten some 'clarity about our relationship' and have realized that we definitely want different things, that his values are way different than mine, and that I deserve so much better. And I've decided that I want to use the next year or two to fall in love with myself again as a single, strong, independent person, and take all the energy I've invested in him and invest it in myself.

One day at a time.

GIRL... FUCKIN YASSSSSSSS!!! 👊🙌👍 I am so sorry you are still having to deal with his shenanigans, but sounds like you are really doing a great job working through everything. So weird - I was just thinking about you earlier today and wondering how things were going, so glad to have an update.

If he wants to fight you changing the locks, let him. So long as your attorney gave that the thumbs up, sounds to me like he really doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Thanks for the update. I was wondering how you were doing.

I DON’T RESPOND to him unless necessary. And when I do respond, no emotion, only business, and I never respond to his 'poor me' bull!

this is GREAT!

It looks like it's still difficult not to respond when your face to face but little steps. He knows this and is pushing your buttons.

I just needed to grab something from the garage. When I saw you weren’t here I just thought I’d take care of things. Why does it matter if I give you a heads up about coming over here anyway? You trying to hide your boyfriends from me?”

He is clearly checking up on you. Having trouble with the fact that he can no longer keep tabs on what you are doing. I mean... how hard would it be to text. Headed over to pick up my wrench, get it and then leave? With the way he has treated you, you would think he wouldn't want you to see him. But no. He wanted to run into you. That's why he didn't give you a heads up or leave when he saw you weren't there.

You felt good calling him out on his lies but later...that break in NC is going to eat at you. You would have felt better long term if you had just walked past and sent a text reminding him to give you a heads up next time. He's a Nar so any attention is good attention. Calling him out on his visit to OW... made him feel good.

You still did great. How is the divorce process going. If I remember right your EXWH wanted to rush things. Are you still seeing signs that he is in need of money? Are you getting any advice on how to use that knowledge to your advantage?

...the only way he would know if the locks were changed is if he tried to get into the house without my permission

Which is pretty damned scary given the mental changes you've observed over the past year or so. You don't know WHEN he might have tried the doors. Were you out shopping, or were you home sleeping? What was he there for? I don't mean to sound paranoid, but there's no damned telling with a narc. You might want to talk with your attorney about safety measures that you can legally take to make sure that you and your possessions are safe and secure. And if he so much as looks at you cross-eyed, I'd have an RO on him so fast his head would spin. Not kidding.

Good. For. You. !!!!!!!!!

Oh thank goodness you are o.k!I was wondering as well how you were doing.He's a sneaky little snake in the grass isn't he.I agree with one previous post that suggest you don't even talk to him directly.It's not only giving him attention but it's feeding his need for attention and his ego. From your previous posts it sounds like he purposely eggs a response out of you for that reason.As for his silence after your email.You got him.He didn't expect for you to stand up to him in that way.He's gonna get ugly.Brace yourself because these types stop at nothing to tear you back down.He is probably looking into any way he can legally get what he wants right now.You will most likely hear from him again when he attempts to drop the next bomb on you.Looking back into my life it now seems like such typical bullshit from narcs.Been through it enough that after awhile I just started to get bored with it and walk away in the middle of any gaslighting, manipulative techniques one would pull on me.I had an ex that would send threatening letters to me in the mail with their lawyers letter head on it.This initially frightened me and my heart would race each time I received one until I realized it wasn't from his lawyer and he was attempting to blow smoke up my a$$.What an arrogant prick he was.Get yourself ready for the next gut punch what ever that may mean.Maybe look into what others have experienced from their ex narcs.Any body else have anything crappy happen we can share with venus?The more prepared you are the less surprised you'll be and it will take the steam out of him.Be bored with him.Even though you are screaming on the inside.Fake it.Yawn,eye roll whatever

.Disconnect when he starts talking with you.Speak in a bored monotone voice like you are only half interested.heard in another post something called The grey rock response?Where you don't respond to him and keep it as dull as possible ? I will have to read up on it some more.Acting indifferent is a very powerful tool.Once I learned how to do it convincingly it helped in so many ways.It helped me take back the control the narc had attempted to strip from me. Anger is healthy yet getting angry with this narc of yours only feeds into his need for attention.It gives him control over you in some way.The control he lost.