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[This message edited by Venus1 at 3:09 AM, February 12th (Friday)]

I’m struggling so much tonight SI!

I just woke from a nightmare ... my WH and the AP in my bed having one of their tawdry affairs. I saw all their messages and pictures of her (with and without clothes) and know exactly what happened between them. And it just played out in color vision in my head. It was as if I was right there and could closely see him stroke his fingertips across her rib cage and could hear all of the breathing and saw him kiss her neck. I woke up in a cold sweat, sick to my stomach, and feeling dirty. Just completely dirty!

Will I ever stop seeing those images in my mind? I need to know that this will ease over time because I never knew I could feel so violated and so used by him. I mean I actually felt dirty, like my skin was crawling. And then I get sad thinking abut how he doesn't understand how much he has traumatized me as a result! God, I’m so angry that he’s done this.

And this feeling of “why her” just keeps popping in my mind! I hate it. I know in my mind that she’s a camera whore who is a lying cheating scum. That I am WAY better than her and I deserve a husband who doesn’t cheat and who isn’t so broken that he thinks this behavior is ok. that I need to stop giving her any more of my thoughts. But, it’s like my self-esteem is in the crapper because of it. He chose her and her goodies over mine. Why? What is so great about her? Why couldn’t he have just left me a year ago and save me from all of this? I know he just wanted the convenience of a good wife, but to also be single and eat his cake. I’ll just not likely get any answers that I want or need. How do I stop asking the “why her” question?

Truth is I’m going back home tomorrow (since he’s officially moved out into his apartment) and I’m nervous. I’m glad about trying to get into a new routine, but the thought of being alone in the house with all those tarnished memories has me a little anxious. I think that’s why I had the nightmare because sleeping in that bed knowing he slept with me in it after having unprotected sex with her just makes me sick. I know I’ve got to do it, but I just feel so weak.

My new word for how I feel abut my WH is “disgusted”. And it doesn’t feel like a strong enough word. So many memories that should be good ones just make me angry or cry or sick to my stomach. How do you forgive someone when you have no respect or feel disgusted about them and their behavior!?

Maybe you need to keep telling yourself that your WH is the one who chose this path and by doing what he did, he is the one that has something lacking. As far as the "why her" question, it probably would have been somebody else if not her. Have you gone to the healing library located on this site? Also, a lot of betrayed spouses try to detach to get themselves out of infidelity. As far as forgiveness goes, you forgive for yourself, or get through it for yourself. You don't have to forgive the behavior, or forget. It's really difficult to understand how someone who professed to love you could treat you this way (believe me I know!) But it does get better, and You will realize your worth. Focus on what you need.

Its really tough and I feel for you I really do, I am going through this exact same thing myself. The images and the thoughts of her being with OM and being happy just tortures the soul. Its the intricate details of it all like thinking of their smiles when they go out for dinner together or being able to cuddle each other on a whim, having a laugh and a joke and texting each other throughout the day. It can really drive you mad.

I've had the same trouble when it comes to the house we bought together, its more to me than just bricks and mortar its the memories that are in that house and at times it can just serve as a reminder of what I have lost. The smell of her perfume still lingering in the bedroom etc. I had to move out for a while and my wife stayed there, she is now moving out and I am going back and while its probably the right move I know it will be hard as OM has been in that house and in our bed (first thing to go is the mattress and bedding).

I have been living this hell for nearly a year and my W has bounced back and forth between myself and OM and it hurts a lot that each time she has ultimately chosen him, its soul destroying and a self esteem killer. Says she loves me (I don't see it myself) but is not in love with me (usual stuff they say). All the usual gaslighting and blamed me for most of the marriage breakdown and even had me at one point fully believing it and begging for forgiveness (how fucked up is that?!)

I just seem to be in the anger phase right now at the unfairness of it all and how I could be so stupid to be treated like this (SI did try and tell me).

You're not alone and what your going through is normal. I like you am told it will get better in time and we just need to trust that it will, other have been through this and come out the otherside and its them I am listening to.

The nightmares will end. They will not remain in your mind forever.

The healing process is progress at times and then a few steps back. Please know that so you don’t get discouraged. I promise at the 6 month mark you will feel better then you did initially.

It may help to understand the OW could have been anyone. She’s not special. She’s nothing more than what she is - someone willing to cheat with a married man b/c she’s desperate to have the attention. She thinks he loves her. In actuality she’s being used for sex. She’s just too stupid to know it.

Also regarding his completely changing into someone you don’t know. Think of his affair like an addiction. He is addicted to the “feel good” feelings he gets. He stupidly thinks it’s love. We know it’s not.

But his behavior mimics those of addicts. Willing to lie and cheat and steal to do whatever they need to do to get what they want. His upheaval and trashing of your marriage is typical. It’s him running away from his issues and creating a new issue to focus on so he can avoid the pain within him.

My H had a typical mid life crisis affair. He was ready to trash a 25 year marriage- destroy our life together, our kids, our home - out of pure selfishness. Like you I recognized that I had nothing to hold onto. The marriage was over.

The cheater (like your H) is always going to be running from himself if he doesn’t take the time to fix what is broken.

I hope you continue to heal. It does get better. You will survive this. We all do.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:51 AM, February 12th (Friday)]

The1stWife's post above is spot on!

But, it’s like my self-esteem is in the crapper because of it. He chose her and her goodies over mine. Why?

Self esteem takes a major hit following infidelity. It can take a long time to recover one's self esteem depending on your type of personality. In that time you will not only understand but eventually learn to accept that he chose her over you not because of any shortcomings in you, but simply because he could. Because he lacked healthy boundaries. It was never about you, or anything you did or didn't do Venus1. You can hold your head high. None of us are perfect but there were other ways of your WH trying to resolve whatever marital issues there might have been other than skulking around behind your back with an AP.

I'm so sorry you find yourself here. Waking up from a nightmare in a cold sweat after just a few hours sleep. Yep, been there done that. It does pass. I realise it's easy for me to say, 6 years out and divorced, but it honestly does get better, and you will survive this.

Sending you strength!

(((Venus1)))

Get sleeping meds and knock yourself out at night. That's what I did for a good 6 months after dday so I didn't have the whammies like that.

1st Wife is right - this twatap ain't special. I get how it hurts - seeing the poetry and "you're the love of my life" bullshit between my xwh and his schmoopsieskank made me feel like shit too.

6 months after dday1, he invited her over for a sleepover while I was out of town. When we separated 3 months after that is when I found out about their slumber party. The day I found that out, my xwh had a seizure again and wound up in the ER (again - because he refused to take meds for his condition) and I went through his phone. There was a whole slew of messages thanking her for 'changing his life' and 'being the love he always wanted'.

Three months after that? He had moved in with a different woman and her husband to practice his 'polyamory'. Snort. Riiiiight. Nope. He did so becasue he's a shiftless loser that is incapable of adulting. Twatap1 moved to a different state too. As far as I know they never saw each other again after their one 'magic' night together.

Point being - whatever your wh and twatap has/had, it isn't love. It isn't going to lead to fairytale happiness. It's twisted and fucked up and won't last. Good relationships are built on trust, and honesty, and respect - NONE of which exists in an affair. My xwh is an idiot. So is yours.

I agree with everyone above. This girl has nothing on you. It could have been anyone.

How is NC going? Did he reply back to you closure message? Are you waiting until he goes on his work trip or your home to inform the OBS?

Just so you know informing the OBS is the surest way to end the affair. In most cases the OM or OW it thrown under the bus to save the marriage. More likely if they have kids.

Venus1, not seeing a spouse for who they are or in my case who they were (WH passed last March 2020) keeps us in denial. It took his passing for me to come out of my denial. My WH had me so convinced that what he did and what I saw wasn't real. I think I was blessed that he passed away because I was too weak and needy to have been able to leave him and start my life on my own.

I've read through your thread and have noticed that you have a mix of posters who have opted to stay in their marriages or have decided on D or in my case, was set free through the death of a spouse.

I know that you don't want to and can't believe that this is now your life (none of us can) but the reality is that it is your life now. And I also believe that the sooner you can get away from him, the better off you will be. R is no cakewalk in the park, especially if you are trying to R with someone who doesn't see what they are doing as flawed, like your WH and mine and others WH's.

You have GREAT support here on SI and I believe that you know that and are utilizing it. I am proud of you for your efforts you have already taken. Keep on keeping on, you've got this. And on the other side of this dark bondage that you are experiencing is your emotional and psychological freedom... but it does take time to get there, lots of time. You may be looking at two years or more to where you will begin to feel somewhat like yourself again. I am already almost a year "out" and still struggling but also having a great amount of clarity. But I am also experiencing the grief of his death.

Through my grief process I have learned so much about who my WH really was (the other side of who he was was TERRIBLE!!) and I am slowly beginning to accept that is who he was and had nothing to do with me. Like I told you above, I couldn't have done this on my own and in my case I needed intervention from my higher power (God).

One last thing, the way that CT and 1stWife described addiction is right on. And sadly, and from my own experiences, I don't think an addict can experience love.

Just remember that we are here to support and to guide you the best way we can. Hang in there. You've got this.

He chose her and her goodies over mine. Why?

It's all about the kibbles, sweetie. There's nothing special about the OW. She's an inferior specimen who's willing to display her tawdry wares on a porn site, all the while stabbing her own spouse in the back. She is NOTHING compared to you. All that's going on here is that her kibbles are new.

We're supposed to love, support, and validate our mate. As good spouses, we've made a habit of it stretching back over the entire course of the relationship. So, they're used to our kibbles, accustomed to them to the point where they've lost potency. They say "familiarity breeds contempt", so too do our steady supply of kibbles lose impact and excitement. For those people who need external validation, it's like getting approval from their mom. Our approval is just taken for granted and valueless because of it.

Here's the thing though... right now you're being very hard on yourself over something that is NOT about you. And it's NORMAL. We pretty much all do it for awhile. But the sooner you accept that this is all about HIM and has nothing whatsoever to do with you, the sooner you'll start feeling better. You didn't make him this way, unable to self-validate, egocentric, and insensitive to the damage he does. That's all on him. There's NOTHING special about OW's kibbles. They're just new. New can be supplied by anyone. But look at what that says about your WH, unable as he is to appreciate a REAL relationship with a GOOD woman who loved him, and all because he's so desperate for approval and flattery from strangers. People like that don't have happy outcomes unless they make some serious changes.

((hugs))

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 12:01 PM, February 12th (Friday)]

Venus1, I need to make a correction. You are in grief. You are losing a marriage that you thought was good. Grief and grieving is messy and there are no set rules or guidelines while grieving. You do you when grieving, just try to take care of yourself as you learn to navigate this journey that you didn't want to be on. I'm so sorry but I will say there is hope out there, just takes time to get there. We are here for you.

I haven't posted in a few days because I moved back home on the 12th! It has been quite an interesting few days. Everything from more drama with my WH to dealing with tarnish memories to purging / cleaning and making the space 'my own'. I guess you could say that I'm trying to settle into what living 'on my own' looks like and trying to figure out what the heck I want in life.

First things first - my WH moved out of the house, but he left SO MUCH STUFF! Clothes, paperwork, his dresser/side table, toiletries, his favorite eagle statue, his military uniform/awards, shoes, etc. He even left his printer from the office, put boxers in my underwear drawer (what!?), and left his wedding ring for me. Nice, right? But, he took my electronic toothbrush for good measure.

It's like he wanted a mechanism to be able to come back and pick up 'xyz' -- have an opportunity to interact.

As I've gone as much 'no contact' as possible, I've been going through each room slowly and purging any of my WH things -- placing them in plastic bag for when he is scheduled to pick up the dogs. I'll leave him a note to say take these with you or I'll dispose of the stuff to goodwill. Plus, I just need everything about him OUT OF THIS HOUSE so I can heal!

Secondly - my WH has given me a lot of grief the past few days -- it's amazing how much control he is trying to maintain after abandoning our marriage, moving out of the house, and having an affair! One example of many emotional manipulations:

He asked me why I didn't move home the night he moved out (I moved back a few days later). When I said that it wasn't of his concern anymore what I did, his response was that when it comes to the dogs, the safety of the house, etc. he deserves to know. So, I countered. "'J' are you going to check in with me every time you leave your apartment? Are you going to let me know who you go out with and what you are doing?" He said "No, of course not". So, I said, "Then why do you expect me to do the same? You want to be alone and single and have your freedom. The great part about this is that I get afforded the same opportunity. Stop concerning yourself with what I do". Man was he pissed! Of course he threw a lot of crap my way about how I'm controlling, everything is always on my schedule, how I never support him, blah, blah, blah ... he even said he hates me and hates my mannerisms and even the sound of my voice. His narcasistic behaviors are just nauseating! Honestly what he is doing is verbal abuse – and I’m tired of it!

Today I was opening mail and opened our Verizon bill. Although, it wasn’t ‘our’ Verizon bill. It was my WHs Verizon bill, with a new phone number, a brand new iPhone, new account number, and everything! Set up approx. two weeks after confrontation on 2Jan. While we agreed to keep some of our bills combined at this time (like our family plan cell phone bill) because it would be less expensive, he bought a new phone … why? Well because he doesn’t want me to know who he is talking to or texting of course. AKA, he has a burner phone to sext with the cam whore girlfriend! He doesn’t know I know about the new phone number, and sadly it isn’t linked to our joint account so I can’t see usage. But, I already know all I need to know -- this is confirmation he’s still in the affair, being secretive, and is still lying. I will assume that his concept of ‘separation’ means ‘single’, and he will continue to do this with her or someone else. He’s just gonna do what he’s gonna do and I have to run like hell in the other direction!

One of the first things I did when getting back home was I played ACDC on my speakers as loud as I could while signing along! I stripped the bed and took scissors to the sheets and bedding and then screamed and yelled while tearing them into the tiniest pieces I could make. The neighbors probably thought I was nuts! But, I couldn't stand the thought of sleeping in those sheets after my WH. And the smell of his body spray and deodorant just made me want to throw up. I threw away the pillows and bed spread too! I cried the whole time, but it was very therapeutic.

Then I decided that I would move all the furniture around in the bedroom to how I wanted it. I moved out the dresser he didn’t take, changed the bedding, removed anything that reminded me of him (pictures, gifts he’s given me), and started making it my space. Felt good to do so! I have a few more things I want to do (like a fresh coat of paint) in the weeks / months to come. I plan to do this in every room – slowly but surely.

Next Monday I have a meeting with the lawyer. Gonna get my ducks in a row and file for a legal separation (and possibly a divorce). I still have a lot of unanswered questions. I’ve asked myself why I have this slight hesitation to not just file for divorce now and the only explanation I have is ‘hopism’ and my eternal optimism. However, everyday I see more and more the manipulation, the gaslighting, the narcissism – and how horribly he’s treated me. I now know for sure that this isn’t what I want in my life, that I’ll never be able to trust him, that this is not ‘fixable’ for me. No matter how much work he does on himself, I won’t be able to forget the affair and what he’s said / done these past 7 weeks. Not only do I not trust him, have no respect for him, and am disgusted by his behavior, I don’t even like him anymore. I deserve so much better! I’m also working on separating bills like our Verizon bill, our car insurance, and any other joint bills (outside of the mortgage), so I don’t have to deal with his finances anymore!

This one day at a time thing is torture! Some days I’m completely heartbroken, some days I’m angry, and other days I’m both at the same time. This trauma is exhausting. But, all I can do is try and stumble along the way and do the best thing for me. It’s tough to think of yourself first when you have dedicated everything to your marriage. And it’s even tougher to let your marriage and your spouse/best friend go.

In addition to my motto of ‘have courage, and be kind’, I’ve added a new one. ‘From this moment on, I refuse to let your actions hurt me.’. I don’t want to spend any more time and energy on someone who doesn’t want me and who thinks this is all ok. I don’t want to let him win. I know I won’t get this right every day, but I sure as hell am going to repeat it to myself EVERY DAY until I believe it!

I know this is rough going right now, but it sounds like you're on the right path. Regaining control of your life is a process, but so worth it to get out of infidelity. He is obviously not the man you thought he was, but that is a reflection on him. Please keep posting your story (so we know you're doing ok). Also, your experiences can help others who are going through similar situations. Keep doing what's best for you!

He shows no sign of wanting to fix this. You might as well take advantage of his fog to make the D go faster and smoother. That's pretty much what I did with my ex. I knew that I wasn't going to give her another chance as being ok with having an affair wasn't her only flaw. If for some reason he has a come to Jesus moment and you wish to attempt R, you can always stop the proceedings up to the final court date.

[This message edited by grubs at 8:46 AM, February 18th (Thursday)]

One of the first things I did when getting back home was I played ACDC on my speakers as loud as I could while signing along! I stripped the bed and took scissors to the sheets and bedding and then screamed and yelled while tearing them into the tiniest pieces I could make. The neighbors probably thought I was nuts! But, I couldn't stand the thought of sleeping in those sheets after my WH. And the smell of his body spray and deodorant just made me want to throw up. I threw away the pillows and bed spread too! I cried the whole time, but it was very therapeutic.

Then I decided that I would move all the furniture around in the bedroom to how I wanted it. I moved out the dresser he didn’t take, changed the bedding, removed anything that reminded me of him (pictures, gifts he’s given me), and started making it my space. Felt good to do so! I have a few more things I want to do (like a fresh coat of paint) in the weeks / months to come. I plan to do this in every room – slowly but surely.

Oh Venus - this is so hard, but I am glad you are reclaiming your space!

I did the same thing. Once D was imminent, I packed up everything of his and threw it into the garage. I changed all the locks. I bought new bedding too. And it was v-e-r-y therapeutic for me as well!

And wanna talk about neighbors thinking we're crazy? A few months after the D was final, I found a suit of my xwh's. I was gonna just throw it away, but instead I took it out to the back yard, put it on a pile of dog shit, then river danced on it while cackling madly and calling him names... Yeah, my neighbors kinda avoid me

Then I decided that I would move all the furniture around in the bedroom to how I wanted it. I moved out the dresser he didn’t take, changed the bedding, removed anything that reminded me of him (pictures, gifts he’s given me), and started making it my space. Felt good to do so! I have a few more things I want to do (like a fresh coat of paint) in the weeks / months to come. I plan to do this in every room – slowly but surely.

That's a good plan. You'd be surprised how therapeutic it is to take command of your surroundings. It helps reprogram the brain. So, kudos on getting so much done!

Next Monday I have a meeting with the lawyer. Gonna get my ducks in a row and file for a legal separation (and possibly a divorce). I still have a lot of unanswered questions. I’ve asked myself why I have this slight hesitation to not just file for divorce now and the only explanation I have is ‘hopism’ and my eternal optimism. However, everyday I see more and more the manipulation, the gaslighting, the narcissism – and how horribly he’s treated me. I now know for sure that this isn’t what I want in my life, that I’ll never be able to trust him, that this is not ‘fixable’ for me. No matter how much work he does on himself, I won’t be able to forget the affair and what he’s said / done these past 7 weeks. Not only do I not trust him, have no respect for him, and am disgusted by his behavior, I don’t even like him anymore. I deserve so much better! I’m also working on separating bills like our Verizon bill, our car insurance, and any other joint bills (outside of the mortgage), so I don’t have to deal with his finances anymore!

Truly, I wouldn't wait to file. It sounds like you've finally got some clarity as to what you're dealing with. In most jurisdictions, D takes quite some time anyway. He'd have time to pull his head out of his ass, that's for sure. But filing lights a fire under him and forces a decision on his part. Living in limbo isn't healthy for you, and the fact is, getting Respect back for a cheating partner is the hardest piece when it comes to R. Already, you're beginning to see how difficult it would be. Imagine he piles six more months of damage on that while you're living in limbo and he's living like a bachelor. You've got nothing to lose by pulling the plug now rather than later.

Hang in there, sweetie. You're doing fine.

((hugs))

He shows no signs of wanting to fix this.

@Grubs you hit the nail right on the head! It’s been two months since D-day and I’ve waited for my WH to show some remorse for his affair, show me that he cares for something other than his own self-interests, and show me that he wants to work on himself and be a better man for himself, me and our marriage. But, all I’m getting is blame-shifting, gaslighting, and making me out to be the bad guy.

I haven’t spoken to him since 14Feb, as I’ve implemented the hard 180 for my own sanity and mental health. But, I thought I'd get a text asking 'how are you' or something similar, but nothing. ZERO effort on his part. So, I keep telling myself, don't waste any more energy on him.

Living in limbo isn't healthy for you, and the fact is, getting Respect back for a cheating partner is the hardest piece when it comes to R.

@ChamomileTea Limbo has wreaked havoc on my physical, mental and emotional well-being since D-day. You guys were SO RIGHT about self-care! I do ok with self-care most days, and others I completely fail at it. But, everyday I'm getting stronger mentally / emotionally, and I gain a little more control of my life. I still don't know what I want in the future, but I do know what I don't want.

What I’ve started asking myself recently is what, if anything, can my WH do to ‘fix’ or ‘reconcile’ his behavior? The truth is that I don’t think there is anymore because too much damage has been done. Trust and respect will be incredibly difficult to get back after not only the affair, but the crap he has been pulling the past two months. He emailed me saying that we could talk in 6 weeks after his business trips (again -- always on his schedule), when I deserved answers and to talk through things on D-day. UGH.

My WH finally agreed on how to split finances for the time being too. A big relief! Less contact now that this piece is settled.

Question --

Why does my husband keep asking me what my plans are? He knows I'm going out of town this weekend and he kept asking who I was going with and where I was going. Is this just his way to keep tabs on me or track what I'm doing and with who? He gave up his right to know these things when he separated from me and moved out! It's not like he's telling me what he's doing and with whom. He gets so upset about it though.

Why does my husband keep asking me what my plans are? He knows I'm going out of town this weekend and he kept asking who I was going with and where I was going. Is this just his way to keep tabs on me or track what I'm doing and with who?

This is a product of you doing a hard 180. You could be meeting with a lawyer, you could be going on a vacation with a guy, you could be meeting with the OBS to exchanged information...You could be meeting with family/friends to discuss his affair. It's not that he wants you back... he just doesn't like losing control or being able to keep tabs on you. If he really wanted you back there are many, many things he could say or do to show you this... not that you'd listen at this point.

As an FYI - you last post sounded great. You seem to be moving forward out of infedelity without him.

You need to go completely no contact with him. Get a lawyer and have all correspondence with him go through them.

It may seem needlessly complicated and hostile, but as you’ve observed, he’s verbally abusive and he is rather adept at sucking you into pointless arguments with him.

As for the stuff he left at your house, drop it off at his place when he’s not there or a friend or relative’s of his. Do not give him an excuse to come back, even if it’s to pick up stuff off the porch.

It’s likely that after an extended period of no contact— precisely at the moment that you have become strong— he’s going to start sniffing around you and try to come back. That’s when you need to revisit these comments and relive the hell that this scumbag has put you through.

He will promise you the world but the only thing that will change him is reincarnation.

Hi Heartbroken. You sound like a kind decent respectable human being. J sounds like a confused, typical lying cheater who is gaslighting you and trying to make you question yourself. I hear that you are starting to get angry with the BS he is trying to feed you, as you should. Never forget your personal power, you are entitled to your home, he needs to do the leg work and get the hell out because he created this problem not you! Look up the relationship between narcissism and codependency. Stephanie Lyn a life coach on YouTube has amazing stuff to say about this. You may be sacrificing your needs to placate him and to make him happy, you're a giver at your own expense, these are telltale signs of being codependent. Don't worry it's pretty common and I'm guilty of spending 20 yrs doing this myself. Stay strong sister, I know it's brutally hard, I'm living it, my Dday was this past Jan 29 and I'm fit to be tied sometimes.