SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

He said my WH is always seeking the 'next best thing', whether it be the next best job or the next best car. He's been restless. That he puts his happiness outward into material things, instead of looking internally for it. And as a result, he will never be happy and never be at peace.

Here is the BEST observation of your cheating H. What you clearly can see now that you are no longer wearing the “rose colored glasses”.

This, to me, would be the reason to move forward with D. Because even if he ends the affair, it appears as though it’s just a matter of time before he cheats again or replaces his unhappiness with something else like sports, gambling, a hobby, a boat etc. He needs something to escape his unhappiness and it doesn’t appear as though he is willing to address his issues.

His words are unacceptable (to me). He lies and cheats and cuts out and runs to avoid consequences.

He can’t stand being in the house? That line makes me want to just slap him lol.

He wants his friend back? He doesn’t say he wants his marriage back.

We need clarity. Continues to blame you for his decision to cheat. You have clarity - it’s HIM that is lost and destroying the marriage.

My H did the same thing as yours. Decided he hated his job, then he hated his life, then he hated me (b/c of course it was my fault) and then started cheating. Believe me my H only started hating his life b/c the OW refused to go out with him (initially) b/c he was married. It all became my fault.

Whatever the reason is, you had nothing to do with the decision to cheat. And the fact your H is saying he wants to separate but then won’t leave is very confusing. But forcing him to leave is your only option.

Because his words are those of a selfish unremorseful cheater. And as we can tell you, that makes true reconciliation (both partners commit to the marriage) as a potential goal something that will never be obtained. Because in his mind he never did anything wrong. CHeaters without remorse tend to cheat again.

From that you only have one choice. And that is to walk away. His last message, unfortunately, solidified that.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 2:21 AM, February 2nd (Tuesday)]

Let's see aprox one month ago he...

On 30 December, he told me he wanted to go away for a few days to ‘clear his head’. That he felt really overwhelmed and needed some time to think things through.

You now realize what he was actually doing during this time. How can you trust him when he tried this same thing a month ago? You cant. He has done nothing to build up your trust.

Here's the thing. Let's pretend he is telling the truth. If he were he is basically telling you that he wants to rug sweet the whole affair. That seeing you and being in the house, makes him feel bad.... that he wants to get his friend back... Basically, he doesn't feel comfortable talking or dealing with the affair and hopes that time will allow you to rug sweep it.... He doesn't want to be around you to fix his marriage?!?

I doubt very much he is telling the truth. He want's to try out OW or being single but stay married in case that plan doesn't work. It's easier to cheat without you around. We've seen this lots of times on SI. The WS will start calling more, maybe go to MC, be attentive but keep needing more time to "fix themselves"... later you find out that they have been dating or with OW the entire time. Living two lives.

What should you do? Keep up with your Seperation plan. Your note back to him should reiterate what he pays and what you pay... this isn't a vacation for him. I'd add in the sobering line that this seperation will be a good way for me to see what divorce would be like. It might help me make my decision at the six month mark. Include that this will be a good time for you to soul search if you think you will ever be able to trust him again and forgive him for breaking your marriage vows so easily. We can work on building our friendship when/if we work on our marriage. Right now you arn't the type of person I'd choose to have as a friend.

I agree that he doesn't seem to understand any of the pain he has caused you. That he doesn't get that this could end in divorce. That you might not be an "option" at the end of this.

I think your best bet is to treat the seperation as you would a divorce... as much as you want to "get back to being friends" don't do it. this is the pick me dance, this is rug sweeping...This is his best means of continuing to manipulate the situation and keep you in limbo.

I also think you should meet with a lawyer (if you haven't already) during this time. Knowledge is power...I also think you should do a HARD 180.

I know that what I've written makes it sound like I think your marriage is over... I don't... I do think that he needs a wake-up call. The sooner he sees that what he is doing could end his marriage the quicker you will be out of infedelity.

You are getting great advice from some very wise humans. I just want to add that it is IMPORTANT that you inform the skank's husband. He needs to know exactly who he is married to. There is the added benefit of fucking up your husband's plans to continue to live in fantasy land with her while being separated from you. No matter what he SAYS, this is almost certainly the plan. We have seen it many times before on this site.

Never listen to a cheater's words. Cheater's are proven liars. Watch your husband's ACTIONS. This will tell you what you need to know about whether he continues to be worth your time and energy.

I just read the entire thread and have to say how amazed I am of your strength and tenacity! I wish I'd had half of what you have when dealing with xWH.

Remember that you are no one's Plan B, and that's what he wants with this separation. Go forward and live your life the way you want to and don't let him emotionally abuse you ever again.

Glad you're staying strong. You WH has to realize that there's only two people in a marriage. Keep taking care of yourself and do what you need. As far as wanting his "friend" back, friends don't treat each other the way he's treated you. He can work on "clarity" with his IC (if he'll go). Maybe his actions have you realizing he's not the person you thought he was! You deserve better.

“Mixed messages” happens to be the name of the game lately. My WH is so mad at me one moment and then says he loves / cares about me the next. Is this normal cheater behavior? The blaming and rug sweeping and emotional manipulation I’ve picked up on, but this “back and forth” is driving me crazy! It’s like he’s completely lost and doesn’t know what to do or how to handle anything.

An example of two different text messages from the last 24 hours.

I get angry thinking about you, I don’t get sad about being apart, that’s why I don’t think our marriage is working. The affair gave me perspective on how unhappy I really was. That may not be something you can fix. I’m just extremely stressed when I’m around you.

You know, I do think about you a lot. And I’m sorry I’m angry with you all the time. I love you more than anything, this is just tough. maybe we can get dinner somewhere tomorrow and discuss some things. I’m asking you for a date.

WTF! I am gonna fix his unhappiness? NO! You get angry thinking about me? Yea, because you are probably disgusted with your actions and angry about who you’ve become. A liar. A cheater. You care about me / love me? Then why did you have an affair!? You want a date? Um NO, I have other plans!

I asked J if he felt justified in his actions and his affair, and he said yes. I asked if he felt guilty, he said yes. Of course when I asked how he could feel justified when he cares so much about me, he said he was going to bed and avoided answering the questions.

How can anyone feel justified for an affair!? Because if you really care, nothing is a good enough reason to cheat. J thinking his actions are justified suggests he thinks it was ok to do so even though we were married and in a monogamous relationship. It’s just so cruel to even say he felt justified. I even asked him if the roles were reversed, would he be hurt by me sleeping with another man behind his back. No answer.

J also said yesterday that I haven’t been a good wife. Just as he hasn’t been a good husband. I won’t lie, that comment stings. Kick me in the teeth while I’m already down why don’t cha! I mean I’m not perfect, but I know I’ve been a good wife. He just took me for granted. But, our marriage has been pretty great until this tough patch of 2020. How are our perspectives that different?

Why does the cheater minimize the impact of what has happened? He thinks he’s happier without me around, but he seems pretty angry and unhappy. and here I am drowning in heartbreak, tears and betrayal.

There are less tears and more clarity on my end and so I can make better decisions and see his texts and behavior for what they are. But, I just don’t get it!

[This message edited by Venus1 at 4:44 AM, February 7th (Sunday)]

As a follow up to my post last night, my WH responded to my questions this morning. Thoughts?

“Yes our roles being reversed would be devastating. I understand that. The only tru justification I have is I was growing close, even falling in love with what you call the fantasy. It wasn’t randomly sleeping with someone. I grew an emotional connection and yes being unhappy between us made it justified to me. I did care for her and as horrible a person as you say she is, so was I to do that. It was never an intentional thing, someone to talk to and find common ground really. It just became more and even if it wasn’t real it was a real connection. That’s why it wasn’t a one night thing. Yes I felt guilty but I was also falling for her at the same time. And my drive for being single is because I realize that passion and care was there and I’ve lost most of that with you. I know we can work to try to get that back but when things decline to a point and all the little things someone does becomes irritating it is toxic to the relationship. I did go about this the wrong way no question and I am horribly sorry for the pain I have caused. But I have been so unhappy that this was a wake up call for a new life to affirm that as miserable as I’ve been I could be happy again. And it is incredibly unfair to you that you didn’t have a choice in the matter.”

For the first time he sounds a little remorseful, but what the hell!?

My theory with the mixed message and the back and fourth is that he is still trying to cake eat... but having trouble justifying having the Affair/ wanting to be single... and not wanting a divorce. How can he keep a foot in both doors?

I'm also guessing he is still in touch with OW so his moods waffle with what's going on between the two of them. Asking you on a Date?!? My guess is that he sees himself single during the seperation and dateing both you and OW. Kind of see how you both do at "winning" him over. It's also a way to keep tabs on you and keep divorce at bay.

With what he has given you over the past few weeks I'd steer toward Divorce. See a lawyer if you haven't already and begin moving forward with out him. It's a long process, you can always stop if he starts putting in the effort. His plan all along has been to test out OW to see if it works out. That makes you plan B... you are nobody's plan B.

I know it's a big move but I think he is going to keep this limbo going for as long as he can and it's going to tear you up.

Sorry Venus1, he is not even close to remorseful. Being unhappy is no excuse for cheating on your BS. Typical cheater bullshit. Typical blameshifting. He is responsible for his own happiness. He goes on a pornagraphic website and hooks up with a married OW and this is his answer. No integrity. No honor. No commitment to your M. You deserve better. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 10:36 AM, February 7th (Sunday)]

For the first time he sounds a little remorseful, but what the hell!?

No, he does not. He still has an account on the site he met OW on and actively tried to hide it from you. That means he's still talking to her OR he's talking to new OW. He's still pushing for a separation which - I can tell you from being here for years - means he's looking to test drive the OW/dating around more. He still believes that what he had with OW is real and better than what he has with you. He can't even show an ounce of remorse if he's still pining after OW and holding his connection with her above you his WIFE.

Venus, he couldn't be faithful to you while MARRIED. What makes you think he will be faithful while SEPARATED? He's focusing on how he doesn't want you to keep tabs on him because he wants the freedom to keep cheating. STOP listening to him when he says there is no one else or he's just doing his own thing. It's a bold faced lie and again, read around here and you will see time and time again that this is true. It's straight out of the cheater's handbook.

The reason he does say he cares and still loves is simple. He needs a back up plan if this all goes south. If it doesn't work out with OW and he can't find anyone else on the site, he'll be back and you will know it because he'll insist on rugsweeping. Could be months from now. Could be years. But generally, a WS does try to come back or try to make you the OW if given the opportunity because nothing is ever enough for them. Other people can't fill that void so they keep searching for that 'next best thing' even if it's something they've already tried before.

Don't slow down or wait for him. Stop trusting what he says and watch what he does. Keep looking at his account on that website and reminding yourself of what that means. Keep moving forward with the separation. Don't entertain letting him come back unless he proves to you the OW is out of the picture for good and that he didn't use this time to date her (by showing you the account, the NC message he wrote her, taking a polygraph, etc.), he deletes his cheating account in front of you, AND he gives you full access to his phone, email, and social media accounts to prove that he's not going to make a new account and start up again. Anything less than that is him still lying and you can't build R on lies.

I am sorry OP. He is not remorseful, far from it. It is the hopium that is working You are looking for something, anything you can find to forgive him and get back to normal. The normal before the A isn't there anymore. You are still engaging him, trying to understand his whys. It should be him being honest and looking at himself and understand the whys. It is obvious to us, and to you, that he is blaming you on the affair. Sorry for the 2x4s but I think you need them.

There are some waywards worthy of a chance of R but your WH isn't one of them.

Gather your strength and move forward. Better times are ahead of you, not behind.

Best of luck.

The reason he does say he cares and still loves is simple. He needs a back up plan if this all goes south. If it doesn't work out with OW and he can't find anyone else

Typical cheater mentality. Typical cheater behavior.

And this is why he tells you one thing one minute and the complete opposite the next minute.

Venus, the only weight you need to lose is 200 lbs of cheating asshole husband.

There was no remorse in any of his messages; I don’t even see the hints to which you’re referring.

Thank you so much all for the advice and for helping me stay strong. This is so hard!

@BluerThanBlue - LOVE IT! I do need to loose 200lbs of a cheating husband. I have a feeling I will feel MUCH lighter.

So today I sent him the below message. I wanted to share it because I was proud to be able to say my peace directly and humbly. But also because it might help someone else on SI! .

You used this affair as a wake up call for your life, but didn’t think about my life or my feelings on the situation. You didn’t think about our commitment to each other. You only thought about your own interests, which is selfish. And you took choices away from me in the process.

What I will say is that marriage isn’t based on passion or love or care or that newness you feel the first few months of getting to know someone. Marriage (or any bf/gf relationship of substance) is based on commitment. And using that commitment to grow a life together, build love and companionship and trust together, not step out of that commitment when it’s convenient or when things get tough. Being unhappy doesn’t explain why you didn’t nurture our relationship and chose selfishness instead.

Now, I know you felt that stepping out of our marriage was the only way to find yourself or some sense of happiness. We easily find a 'vanity mirror' (like an affair partner) to make us feel great about ourselves, because there is no accountability there. An affair partner isn’t asking you to paint vent covers or watch a movie together (again) or to not spend too much money. They aren’t asking you for a commitment or to take responsibility for anything. Your spouse on the other hand does, and it’s easy to associate happiness with a perfect ideal in an affair partner compared to reality. The truth is, a spouse sees your flaws, the annoying traits you have, and loves you regardless. What I see now is that you can’t see that about this situation or yourself.

Real happiness ultimately comes from within, not by seeking it on a porn site or with an affair partner or in “things”. And I hope you give that some thought as part of our separation. Do you like the person you became to do something like that to me? Because seeking happiness external to ourselves with “things” or by compromising our character means that you will always be looking for the “next best thing” and never having peace. You might have an immediate relief, but in long term, whats broken doesn’t get fixed.

I hope one day you will see how messed up your behavior and decisions are. That you accept responsibility for breaking our marriage. But evenif you don’t, I will use this time to go find what makes me happy. What I deserve! Because I sure as hell deserve better than this. I refuse to be held hostage in this relationship and refuse to tolerate this behavior from you anymore. You’ve not only lost my trust, but my respect as well.

I’ve been so heartbroken the past 5-6 weeks that I haven’t had the chance to really get mad about things yet. Now I’m not only mad, but I’m disgusted by his behavior. He dropped the dogs off tonight and I couldn’t even look at him I was so sick to my stomach. Good news is, he should be in his apartment by Tuesday/Wednesday so I can get back home!

I’m sure I’ll have plenty of emotional triggers in the weeks and months to come (music is a big one for me right now), but it felt good to send this. I have been scared to fall out of love with him, but the truth is that I don’t love this person that he is right now, I love my husband from two years ago. The one who cherished and loved me. The “memory”. If I were to meet him today, I wouldn’t accept a marriage proposal.. And there is a VERY big chance that my husband from two years ago is gone forever. I know I’ll always love him, and look back on the good 15 years we did have fondly. But right now, I’m settling for angry.

So I’m gonna keep doing as much of the 180 as I can (man that’s hard for me ... I fail at it more than I succeed at the moment), continue IC, communicate calmly and succinctly when needed, and work on me and figure out what I want out of my life and relationships, etc. if he comes back in 6 months to apologize (and really mean it), I’ll be stronger and not willing to take him back, unless by some miracle his behaviors DRASTICALLY change. Not holding my breath though after his childish and selfish displays of “lost-dom” and self-pitty since confrontation day.

My new motto: “Have courage, and be kind”. Time to dig deep to live with courage and kindness, no vindictiveness allowed. I want to look back knowing I did what was right and be proud that I did not let what this jerk of a WH did to me break me

Or my spirit.

[This message edited by Venus1 at 1:16 AM, February 8th (Monday)]

As painful as this is, you made the best decision for yourself.

Acknowledging he’s not the guy he was - the guy you married - is hard to do but critical. It helps you step back and view the marriage for the reality it is, not the marriage it once was.

I’m sorry for you but this helps you to remove yourself from living in limbo hoping things will change.

I like your strong kick ass approach. You rock!

It’s hard, damn it’s so hard, when your head & heart couldn’t be further apart, dissecting words, statements, previous actions over & over again becomes so frustrating, finally you get to a point you can’t see the truth even when it’s painfully obvious..When your head tells you 1 thing & your heart tells you another mind boggling!!

At some point you have a lightbulb moment...could be days/weeks/sometimes months you finally see what’s right in front of you.

Be it...manipulation, lies, cake eating, blame shifting, gas lighting, rewriting marital history, honestly so much more...

After all of this You finally see some light between the trees,

Now your heart & your head becomes more in zinc, they align themselves, which in turn gives you clarity where you second guess yourself less & less.

You know deep down you can’t reconcile with a remorseless WH, it’s impossible to do it alone.

Sometimes it takes us a while to catch up..but when we do, that’s when it’s at full throttle, once your heart & head aligns that’s when you can start moving forward, making plans for I instead of We,

I will also say “It’s not easy” (holy shit it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do) however it can be the most rewarding thing you’ve ever done,

you decide how to live your life moving onwards, you get to live your life infidelity free!!

Be strong & keep standing up for yourself, don’t allow him the power to keep hurting you!!

(Ps I ramble ALOT) 🤦‍♀️

I liked your letter. You sounded strong, you didn't sound like someone begging for him to reconsider and come back.

It didnt' sound overly angry or sad... where he could call you jealious.

You didn't say divorce but you also didn't say you were ready to take him back anytime...or wanted to "stay friends" or...

I know you aren't ready to file right now. I do think that if you do a hard 180 you will see even more clearly that you are way to good for this guy. I also think that by the time he comes back... it will be too late. You may try but too much damage will have been done... he might realize that too... that might be the reason he sending so many mixed messages.

Financially did you get everything worked out for the seperation? Are things in place so you can go NC as much as possible? I feel like in this case the stronger you go NC the harder the seperation will be on him. I also feel like if you can get a few weeks of a hard 180 in the seperation will get easier on you.

You are doing great.

I admire your decision to do what's best for you. When somebody in your life can be so ambivalent, the best move is to realize since they can't make a decision, you can say "I'm tired of the fence sitting, so I'm making the decision for me". People like your WH are not content with what they have, but also soon realize what they've chosen has become mundane. They will never be satisfied.

@BigBlueEyes – I ramble too! LOL

This is the hardest thing EVER! My head knows that I’m doing the right thing right now, but my heart still loves him, and I want to reach out to help! The love I have for my WH hasn’t gone anywhere and it makes me so sad to see him so lost and confused and unhappy. I just know that my mental / emotional health is struggling right now because of him, and therefore my health needs to be the priority and must be protected. I can no longer subject myself to the behavior, because I refuse to be a proverbial ‘punching bag’ and allow him to 'break' me.

I never thought my WH could be manipulative, lie, gaslight or blame me in the way he has since confrontation day. I never thought my WH could have an emotional / physical affair for 2 months either. And he is definitely trying to re-write our marital history. My WH has this perception that we have ‘drifted apart the past 2 years’ (which is what he tells people now when explaining ‘why’), that I’ve been unhappy too, how I’ve been a bad wife, etc. He makes up things that honestly I just didn’t do! It’s like he’s living in this alternate reality and I’m collateral damage.

But, you are right -- the rose-colored glasses came off a bit the past few days and deep down I am realizing that I can’t R with a remorseless WH. My heart wants to R (because I'm not ready to give up just yet), but he has to earn an R with me. It’s so painful to realize that! Especially because it kinda feels like giving up on my marriage, even though I know he gave up first.

I’m just realizing that I can’t tell him that he’s making a big mistake, I can’t force him to choose me, I can’t force him to apologize or accept responsibility for breaking our marriage, I can’t force him to change, I can't stop him from talking to the OW or being on that website, I can't force him into MC / IC -- all I can do is control what I do.

Right now, what I can control is is getting my paperwork in place with a lawyer incase I decide to file for D, I can ask him to move out so I can have a safe place to heal, I can remind him that this was his choice and not mine, I can communicate my feelings and expectations on the matter, I can continue my IC and work on myself and what I want/expect out of my life and relationships, etc.

Let's break this down. I'm thinking that by the time we get to the end, you will see that there's ZERO remorse.

Yes our roles being reversed would be devastating. I understand that.

Actually, he does NOT "understand that". HE wasn't betrayed. And I'll be honest with you, even people who are really trying to empathize with what we go through as BS fall woefully short. The only people who I've found are able to understand it, are people who have gone through it. If your WH could empathize and understand what it is he's putting you through, then what he's saying is that he's deliberately continuing to agonize you

The only tru justification I have is I was growing close, even falling in love with what you call the fantasy. It wasn’t randomly sleeping with someone.

He makes this sound like an accident. But it wasn't. Long before a physical boundary is broken, the mind crosses that boundary. Use your imagination here. Put yourself in that situation. You decide to look for a porn site. You decide to contact someone on that porn site. You decide to interact with that person. These are NOT accidents. Even if it was, say, a coworker. Your mind crosses that boundary way before your body. You've allowed yourself to view that person as a romantic/sexual possibility.

I grew an emotional connection and yes being unhappy between us made it justified to me.

He CHOSE to become emotionally involved with someone else. It didn't just happen. In every conversation, the CHOICE to mentally exceed his boundaries was made. Imagine that YOU are talking to someone online. You are NOT being compelled in any way to say things which don't represent your REAL intentions. Further, if a person is "unhappy", they deal with the source of that. Maybe they have a job they hate, so they leave that job. And maybe they ARE unhappy in their marriage, but the ones who truly are LEAVE. They don't cheat. They leave.

This claim to "unhappiness" is so ubiquitous that we have a NAME for it... "rewriting the marital history". And most cheaters do it. They can't abide the thought that they are singularly responsible for their own choice to cross those boundaries. They need to think that someone made them do it, otherwise, they have to admit to themselves that there's something seriously WRONG with them and their world view.

I did care for her and as horrible a person as you say she is, so was I to do that.

Notice how he resists the notion that she's a horrible person with "as you say she is". He's not agreeing with you that they are horrible people. He's butt-hurt that you think he's horrible. These are TWO people who went on a pornographic website looking to cheat. And YES... that IS "horrible". They each made HUNDREDS of choices, each of which led them further and further into betrayal. At any point, they might have stopped, but they CHOSE to continue.

The chief reason that a WS won't look at their AP's lack of integrity and lack of human empathy is because they don't want to see it in themselves. He rebuts your assertion that the AP is horrible because if she was so too would HE be horrible. His use of "as you say she is" tells you all you need to know here. He's basically saying "That's YOUR opinion. How dare you judge us?"

It was never an intentional thing, someone to talk to and find common ground really.

It was ABSOLUTELY intentional. When was the last time YOU logged onto an interactive pornographic website and made contact with someone? That's not an accident. He wasn't just walking down the sidewalk and fell into someone's vagina. He went LOOKING for it. From his choice to search for a website to his choice to make contact with a potential AP. This is a boldface LIE.

It just became more and even if it wasn’t real it was a real connection. That’s why it wasn’t a one night thing.

He CHOSE to continue it. He enjoyed the flattery, the excitement of breaking boundaries, and the external validation of having someone think he's interesting, so he kept going back to it. This is NOT an emotional connection. It's a bio-cocktail of feel-good adrenals and hormones.

Yes I felt guilty but I was also falling for her at the same time.

No, he did NOT feel guilty. His actions tell the truth here. If a person feels REAL guilt about what they're doing, they stop doing it. What he's talking about here are minuscule pangs of conscience. And I say "minuscule" because if they were substantial, he'd have changed course. His "guilt" was not enough to change his actions. Has actions have nothing to do with "falling for her". Who "falls" for a cam whore? Seriously. Think about it. She's NOT an object of respect and dignity. She has sexualized herself in an object sense. But she's interactive. She talks. She flatters. And he's addicted to that biochemical cocktail. The problem is... he's too emotionally stunted to recognize that it's his hormones talking, his desire for external validation, and not his brain.

And my drive for being single is because I realize that passion and care was there and I’ve lost most of that with you.

And here is where he tells you WHO HE IS. He's the Kibble Monster... and right now, her kibbles are more enticing than yours. You're welcome to up your production and quality, but he's letting you know that you've got a long row to hoe because her kibble is so awesome.

This is a guy who makes OTHER PEOPLE responsible for his happiness. He is NOT self-fruitful in matters of contentment. And when OW's kibble supply deteriorates, he'll look for another. But don't think for a minute that if kibble supply starts running low, he won't circle back to you. He will. He's like a child who can't entertain himself.

When two women fight over a turd... the loser is the one who gets it.

I know we can work to try to get that back but when things decline to a point and all the little things someone does becomes irritating it is toxic to the relationship.

So, here's another blame-shift... you're "irritating" him so you're "toxic". Nevermind that he's blatantly cheating on you at this point. Nevermind that he went out deliberately looking for a cheating partner. Nevermind that he's rewritten your marital history to make himself out as the victim of a "toxic irritant". It's your fault, not his, that there's no hope for the marriage. You see how he turned that?

I did go about this the wrong way no question and I am horribly sorry for the pain I have caused.

Geez.. if we had a nickel for every sad sausage who just went about it "the wrong way".

He's not a guy who deliberately broke his vows, who TRAUMATIZED his innocent spouse, and who continues to abuse her. He's just a guy who wanted his freedom and went about it "the wrong way".

The reality here is that he doesn't want to see himself as a bad guy. But he IS a bad guy. He's not "sorry". See "guilt" above. People who suffer from self-inflicted, painful and unpleasant feelings change their ACTIONS. It's not any different than taking your hand and putting it down on the burner of your stove. If it's causing you pain, you STOP.

But I have been so unhappy that this was a wake up call for a new life to affirm that as miserable as I’ve been I could be happy again.

Again, it's all about external validation and kibble supply. And again... he's wrong. People like that don't end up "happy" because they aren't capable of making themselves happy. They're solely dependent on others to provide "happy" to them. You've provided "supply" to this emotional vampire for 15 years now, and your kibble has become less potent than what he can get from a cam whore. That's the bottom line.

And it is incredibly unfair to you that you didn’t have a choice in the matter.”

But you DO have a choice. You have a choice to lawyer up and make this loser truly sorry that he's elected to mindfuck you like this. And I'll be honest, sweetie, that's exactly what I would do. I'd divorce this guy with prejudice and alacrity. I'd never see or speak to him again. I'd move on with my life, find better friends, better lovers, better happiness than what he had to offer.

((big hugs))