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Furious! 🤬

I got a notification that our joint checking account was low on funds. Considering we had a buffer in there only a few days ago, I went to go look and it turns out that my WH has spent our joint money that was supposed to be use for upcoming bills (everything is separated now but we have two joint bills to pay at months end), on places like Twin Peaks, which is like a Hooters, and ale houses on his business trip. It’s his birthday today, but the arrogance and entitlement just makes me so ANGRY!

And talk about a trigger!

For 16 years I had absolutely no problem with my WH going to a strip club or watching porn. He always came home to me and I can count on one time how many times he went to a strip club. Now the thought of him staring at a bunch of women at a restaurant just makes me want to throw up. Did anyone deal with this after being cheated on? Men look at women. I’m not naïve. And women look at men. But he cheated on me using a porn site, sexting with many of them and engaged in virtual sex, and selected one woman who is well endowed to actually have a PA with. Just makes me sick to my stomach that he resorted to these sites. And I fear I’m going to have issues with these types of restaurants and porn for a long time. I mean is it wrong to think that my spouse was “mine” from a sex perspective? God this really is bothering me tonight.

[This message edited by Venus1 at 9:05 PM, March 13th (Saturday)]

Ugggh. Fwiw we just use our joint to pass money back and forth. I direct deposit the minimum.amount monthly to keep it fee free. That just covers church which is the only bill paid from it. I pay our bills and mine out of mine account She pays her personal bills out of hers. She puts her % of our monthly bills in the joint after she gets paid. I sweep it up after or at least before I pay bills.Something to consider for you going forward maybe.

it turns out that my WH has spent our joint money that was supposed to be use for upcoming bills (everything is separated now but we have two joint bills to pay at months end), on places like Twin Peaks, which is like a Hooters, and ale houses on his business trip.

Yes, I'd be pissed about it but... any reaction you have about what he spent the money on is going to feed his ego.

He did this to get back at you. He knew you would see it. He could have used his own funds. He's that same 5 year old child trying to push your buttons and he's an Ass.

He is playing games with you and your best bet is to get out of the game. You need to figure out a way that he can't do this. I don't know how much money we are talking about but you might want to consider it his Birthday gift.

I'm seeing a lot of Narcessitic tendancies with your WH. The best way to deal with that is to continue NC as best you can and figure out some workarounds for any contact you do have.

Next time his $ goes into the account — immediately withdraw the funds he took from you and pay the bills.

He’s a selfish man-child.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:29 PM, March 14th (Sunday)]

@grubs -

We got separate checking accounts so we can pay our personal bills. That has been the best move by far to ensure that my money is protected and not spent! Just never thought he'd ignore the purpose of a 'buffer' as a minimum on the account.

Can you clarify one thing for me? When your WW puts the % of your monthly joint bills into the joint account, do you transfer it to yourself so you can pay the joint bills from your account? Ie, you don’t use the joint account to pay for anything, ONLY to transfer money back and forth. Right now we pay our joint bills from the joint account, so wondering if it is worth arguing over it (only two bills are paid out of that moving forward as of April) when I can just transfer in my % and leave it at that.

@Freeme -

Why he felt he should / could use that joint account to pay for his outings this weekend is beyond me! If he’s on a ‘business trip’, why isn’t his company paying for his food, snacks, etc.? I didn’t react or send anything to him over the weekend because I figure he’s trying to bait me and push my buttons.

This morning I got a notice from our bank saying that the account was below the limit and was overdrawn. I did email my WH saying “As I have not spent anything from the joint account, I presume you spent money while on your business trip? Please transfer money back to replenish what was spent and send me confirmation when the money is replenished.” He responded saying that he ‘accidentally’ used the joint card and won’t use it again, and did transfer some money. Not sure I buy the ‘accidentally’ used the account bit, especially without any trust there.

And narcisistic tendencies - YES!!! As the 1stWife says, he's a man-child! He's blaming, apparently feels entitled, is acting selfishly and making all of this about him.

Here’s another question for everyone – why do I feel like I’m giving up on my marriage?

I know that I haven’t closed any doors here, he’s closed doors on me. I’m merely choosing myself and my health / safety / wellbeing right now, but I can’t help but feel like a failure. I feel like I’ve been forced into this life that I never wanted, and while I’m working hard as hell to get out of infidelity, I still have this ‘caretaker’ thing. It goes completely against how I’m built to take care of myself first … especially since I’ve supported and taken care of my WH and his PTSD for years. Why can’t my mind and heart get on the same page already!?

And I know I can’t expect remorse or change my WH. I refuse to play the ‘pick me’ dance. But, why can’t he see how much pain I’m in? Do wayward spouses know how much pain they cause and they just don't care enough to put someone else first? ie, it's just a selfish, self-interest kind of mentality.

When your WW puts the % of your monthly joint bills into the joint account, do you transfer it to yourself so you can pay the joint bills from your account? Ie, you don’t use the joint account to pay for anything, ONLY to transfer money back and forth. Right now we pay our joint bills from the joint account, so wondering if it is worth arguing over it (only two bills are paid out of that moving forward as of April) when I can just transfer in my % and leave it at that.

I pay all joint bills out of my personal account. The only exception is tithing which just happens to line up with the minimum monthly direct deposit for free checking that comes from my check. She pays those from the joint as she attends church more regularly. We re-calc the budget every year to adjust. It's worked well for us so far.

We have very different attitudes for money management. She came in with 20k of CCard debt, which she has since paid off. She carries over a few months occasionally when she makes a large purchase. I've only paid interest on a ccard bill 5-6 times in my life.

[This message edited by grubs at 8:31 PM, March 15th (Monday)]

Here’s another question for everyone – why do I feel like I’m giving up on my marriage?

I know that I haven’t closed any doors here, he’s closed doors on me. I’m merely choosing myself and my health / safety / wellbeing right now, but I can’t help but feel like a failure. I feel like I’ve been forced into this life that I never wanted, and while I’m working hard as hell to get out of infidelity, I still have this ‘caretaker’ thing. It goes completely against how I’m built to take care of myself first … especially since I’ve supported and taken care of my WH and his PTSD for years. Why can’t my mind and heart get on the same page already!?

And I know I can’t expect remorse or change my WH. I refuse to play the ‘pick me’ dance. But, why can’t he see how much pain I’m in? Do wayward spouses know how much pain they cause and they just don't care enough to put someone else first? ie, it's just a selfish, self-interest kind of mentality.

I think you're answering your own question here. You're hanging on because you think this is just another kind of illness, like his PTSD, and you're hoping he'll snap out of it, realize what he's losing, and come back. And you know what?... it's normal to feel that way, to wonder which face is the false one, the one you knew before or the one you're seeing now.

It's also normal to want the WS to understand the pain. But they don't. I honestly believe that there are very few who are capable of truly understanding it unless it's happened to them. It's like depression in that way, you think you get it, certainly you have sympathy for it... but you find out when it happens to you that you were way off. Almost all of us, R or D, want that kind of understanding from our WS. We want them to know what they did to us, how they changed us, but only a very small minority even come close to really getting it.

No matter how imperative these emotions might feel to you right now though, they do fade. The pain is temporary and finite. And the big question remains... "Is this relationship good enough for you?" We can't MAKE people do the right thing or behave like decent, caring people. So, you can only answer that question based on what IS... what he is... today. And you know that the person he's become is NOT worthy of you, so you're allowing your imagination to provide you with "what if" scenarios. Totally normal. All you can do is turn your dial back to Reality and try to keep your focus on you and what's ultimately best for YOU. It's not easy. Every particle of our being wants to live in denial when faced with the betrayal of a loved one.

Grief is a process, and just as if he had died, you'll go through the Five Stages... denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Denial in particular is going to keep your brain playing games with you. It's going to keep those "what if's" going, like "what if he comes to his senses and comes back?" It's open-ended... and it can keep you in emotional turmoil for years.

As messy and as uncomfortable as it is, all you can do is just keep on plodding through, dealing with the reality of what's in front of you rather than what you wish was there. When you're going through hell, you keep on going, right? You will come out to the light again and you will feel stronger when you do. It's a matter of TIME, time for your heart to catch up to your brain.

Our friend EllieKMAS posted this once and I bookmarked it, it's so apropos....

It takes TIME, sweetie. Be patient. You'll get there.

((hugs))

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 5:12 PM, March 15th (Monday)]

Get your rear to an attorney like yesterday.

This clown isn't anything close to trustworthy and you need to protect yourself financially and physically.

If he shows up unexpected at your home you need to have things in place to protect yourself and prosecute if needed. Narcissists think they are entitled to whatev gets in their crosshairs and there is no predicticting what that may be

@grubbs – thanks for the tip. My WH is very concerned about money right now, probably because he didn’t think of the financial impact his infidelity and our separation would actually cost. Marriage does provide the convenience of a dual income, and now he’s dealing with reality.

@tushnurse – I’ve retained a lawyer and am getting my “ducks in a row”. In the state I live, there are a few things I need to get in order before I can file. It will be better for me in the long run to do it this way. But, I’ve got her on speed-dial so I can ask questions when these things happen. But, you are right, he’s not trustworthy and is acting so irrationally that I have to protect myself. I’m so glad I got my own checking account so I can manage my own bills and finances.

@ChamomileTea – thank you for your ongoing guidance. And the picture … I love it.

I would love to fast forward 6 months and see that the pain is less and that it has served some purpose! I know I need to go through the grief process and feel it now and do the work now so that in 6 months or a year I can truly move forward. But, it’s just so difficult, every single day, trying to let go of something that doesn’t even exist anymore. And I feel like I’m in every stage of grief every day … and it’s exhausting.

This whole experience just makes me question what was real the past 1-2 years! If he checked out of our marriage in Jan 2020 like he said he did, last year was a waste of my time. Every intimate moment, every time I kissed him or held his hand, every meal I cooked, every laugh we shared, or thoughtful thing I did for him, just didn’t matter! He is the one who stopped prioritizing me and stopped fighting for us, but I did! I don’t know what’s worse, my WHs affair or the fact that he stopped fighting for me / us?

Yesterday turned into an incredibly emotional day … I could NOT stop crying! I realized that my WH had 27 ‘friends’ on that interactive pornographic website, and there were more ‘chats’ than the chat I picked through with a fine tooth comb between him and the woman he had an EA/PA with in Nov/Dec. His affair stated well before the OW because he had virtual relations with upwards of 27 women on his profile (either via just sexting, chatting, virtual sex, playing sex games online together)! This hit me like a TON of bricks! My WH crossed the boundary well before I thought he did. I guess it doesn’t matter the quantity of OW, because one is enough to cause all this pain, I just didn’t realize that my WH was into that kind of thing or that he could even do something like this.

I’ve been bouncing the idea around that I’m still holding my WH to the same expectations I had of him 2 or 3 or even 5 years ago. When he protected me, loved me, fought for our marriage, and treated me well. Thoughts? How do I change those expectations? I feel like if I need to manage my expectations of him better so I can let go!

I realized that my WH had 27 ‘friends’ on that interactive pornographic website, and there were more ‘chats’ than the chat I picked through with a fine tooth comb between him and the woman he had an EA/PA with in Nov/Dec. His affair stated well before the OW because he had virtual relations with upwards of 27 women on his profile (either via just sexting, chatting, virtual sex, playing sex games online together)! This hit me like a TON of bricks! My WH crossed the boundary well before I thought he did. I guess it doesn’t matter the quantity of OW, because one is enough to cause all this pain, I just didn’t realize that my WH was into that kind of thing or that he could even do something like this.

I'm not surprised by that. Don't forget, my own WH started out with online porn. Without intervention, it tends to escalate. The user is getting a bigger and bigger dose of the "feel-good" chemical cocktail as he continues ramping up the risk in his behavior. I honestly don't know what happens after the limerence with an AP he's left the home for wears off. As you probably know, infatuation has a shelf-life of about two years. Although, in cases of adultery where triangulation continues, it can last for much longer. Your WH has a helluva fall coming. And honestly by the time that happens, I expect it'll be of little significance to you because you'll have moved on.

I’ve been bouncing the idea around that I’m still holding my WH to the same expectations I had of him 2 or 3 or even 5 years ago. When he protected me, loved me, fought for our marriage, and treated me well. Thoughts? How do I change those expectations? I feel like if I need to manage my expectations of him better so I can let go!

You're a great person, Venus. You've been posting here for a few weeks now and it's absolutely self-evident through your posts how kind, caring, and intelligent you are. My best advice to you is to turn in toward that. Focus on YOU. Be kind to yourself, do nice things for yourself. You really did deserve better than what you got. And it's normal to get hung up on why he couldn't see it. But that's just untangling his skein, right? Focus on what you CAN make better, and that's YOU. You really ARE enough, and better than what a man who can't/won't appreciate you deserves. Be a little angry about it if you want. The anger stage can be helpful in moderation. It gets us on our feet and makes us move toward better things.

Have faith in YOU. You are wonderful, and it's sad for him that he couldn't appreciate what he had, but YOU deserve better.

((hugs))

ETA: If you haven't read it already, do try The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson. I really think you'll get a lot out of it.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 3:19 PM, March 16th (Tuesday)]

LOL CT - I remember that pic - and I remember when that finally happened for me

Venus, she's right - it does just take time. I hate that word and I haaaated hearing it in my early SI days, but it is very true (just saying, you seem to be an eminently sensible and feisty person, so I don't believe it will take as long as you fear to get to that point).

As much as I wish you could just flip a switch and not care anymore, that's just not how it works. You just gotta get through the processing of all of it. And it is totally normal to be all over the place - I had days in the start of the process that I felt crazy the way I would bounce from rage to crying to hope and ping-ponging through all of them all day long. That's all part of it too, but I promise that does get better the further out you get.

In the meantime, be kind to yourself. And be patient with yourself.

@ChamomileTea – thank you for everything you wrote. I think you are right that my WH has a hell of a fall coming in the future and will regret what has happened here. But, if I focus on me and what is best for me, I won’t be there when he figures it out.

One of the most difficult things for me is truly remembering that I am a good person who didn’t do anything wrong here. That I am kind, caring, a good wife, even with all my flaws, and I don’t deserve him stepping out on me and how he’s treated me the past 2.5 months. The blame-game, the gaslighting, and trying to re-write our marital history really has thrown me for a loop.

Just ordered The Journey from Abandonment to Healing and it will arrive on Friday. I really do feel abandoned and am glad to hear you think it would be helpful.

@EllieKMAS

LOL … I hate hearing the phrases ‘time heals all wounds’ and ‘it just takes time’. I know it’s true, but I feel like a crazy person. One minute I’m beating up my bed and pillow, the next I’m crying so hard I can’t breathe, the next I feel incredibly lonely and lost, and the next I feel strong enough to take over the world. It’s truly exhausting! I promise I’ll try to be patient with myself.

As you know, I’ve been slowly going through things at the house to purge any reminders / triggers. I’ve been putting all of my WHs stuff in the garage for him to pick up. I opened one of the cabinets to our entertainment center this afternoon and it had all my WHs old vhs tapes from like 2000 in it. BOOM … major trigger! About half of them were vivid entertainment porn videos. I completely forgot we had them and immediately burst into tears! UGH. Anything porn related will be really tough for me to deal with in the future … internet porn, magazines, hooters, videos, sexting … makes me soooo ANGRY!

Can anyone explain sex addiction or porn addiction to me? Or any resources that may help a BS?

5 days -- that's it! 5 days is the longest my WH has gone without emailing, texting, calling, etc. I have tried my best to go hard 180, but he finds things to message me about or makes up things to talk about.

Today, it was this email: "I returned from my work trip early and wanted to know if this weekend would be ok to have our discussion about the path forward for us? Also do you want me to get the pups so you don't have to take care of them all week?"

Seriously? WTH!!!

1. My WH wants me to change the schedule for the dogs just because he came home a week early from his business trip. Everything is always on his schedule -- and he is trying to control the situation by emotionally manipulating me. He says "so you don't have to take care of them all week", like he's doing me a favor by taking them. I want to keep the dogs 100% of the time after all of this happened, so I hate that I have to even exchange them. Last week he said he wanted me to 'babysit them' during the day while he was working (ie, he would drop them off in the morning and pick them up in the afternoon everyday, increasing our interactions). The guy is delusional! I responded saying I'd keep them until the agreed upon pick-up date this weekend.

2. My WH wants to discuss the 'path forward' for us. Big surprise --- my WH doesn't listen to a single thing I say. We agreed to take time apart and not talk until the end of April, and I know I clearly told him that I needed space / time away. But, here he is rushing and wanting to have a 'path forward' --- again on his schedule. I responded with: "I'd prefer to not meet at this time. Let's stick to the original plan and discuss our path forward at the end of April. I need some space and time away, and would appreciate you respecting my boundary."

No response ...

My WH has gotten everything he asked for since I confronted him about his affair. He wanted to be alone because he doesn't know if he wants to be married, and he now has his own apartment and is living alone. He is living the single life with his website and his gfs and he's coming and going as he pleases without my knowledge or input. He has everything he wanted minus the wet ink on divorce papers.

Why the h#ll can he not give me the space and time I asked for? What is the damn rush to discuss the 'path forward'?

I think it is reasonable for me to ask for space and time to process all of this trauma. It hasn't even been a full three months since I confronted my WH. I mean don't get me wrong, I do want to rip the Band-Aid off and be done with it, but it has all happened so fast! I figure because he's been checked out of our marriage the last 15 months and is already moved on, that's why he is running as fast as he can in the other direction.

Am I going crazy from the gas-lighting or something? I'm so frustrated! At the end of the day I figure if he really wants to move out of state to live with his gf and her husband, he can move. If he really wants a divorce, he can go file. I'm becoming indifferent. I just don't want to be held hostage anymore by him and I don't want him to define how quickly I process this trauma he's caused.

[This message edited by Venus1 at 1:03 AM, March 23rd (Tuesday)]

You might do well to go back to page 2 of this thread and re-read your post after your last big meeting end of January. If that's the kind of thing he's got in mind, I don't think I'd be in a really big hurry to meet up. What you might do is email him back, tell him to keep the regular pick-up time for the dogs and write out the bullet-points of his agenda for any proposed meeting. Tell him you'd like to make sure you've had time to put together any information you might need and/or reflect on his concerns.

He's pretty used to calling the shots, so I doubt he'll be graciously receptive, but he can't force you to meet with him, so there's that. Iif he gets snotty, I'd either refuse or I'd bring a witness. Getting snotty might mean that he intends to try and intimidate you like the crap he pulled last time.

His message sounds like his goal was to have contact with you. Not move forward with the divorce. This does not mean that he wants to get back together. He just wants to feed his ego kibbles by making sure he has some type of control over you. Keep your replies as general and non emotional and short as possible.

If he pulls this again ask him to outline his ideas for the path forward and email them to you. That you will respond when you can but it might not be until the end of April.

@ChamomileTea –

I went back to read that thread! I have never seen him that angry before or seen him behave like a 5 year old having a temper tantrum. Looking back I’m so proud of how I handled myself then, even though after the fact I broke down shaking like a leaf because I was scared.

I decided then that I wouldn’t meet alone with my WH anymore because of that incident (always a witness, mediator or someone in the same place to avoid that type of confrontation).

Truth is that I am in no hurry to meet up with him. Again, he wanted a separation, and we are separated. He wanted to be alone and have his own place, and he’s alone in his new apartment. He wanted the single life, and he has that. What is the damn rush? Let's just be separated and get together when we agreed!

I did email him and confirmed we will keep the regular pick up time for the dogs and that we can agree to an agenda to discuss when we do meet up. No response --- no surprise there!

@Freeme –

I agree that the contact is to feed his ego and to try and control the situation. My reaction was without emotion --- more like a business transaction.

I attended a “Grief (and mourning) the Loss of a Narcissistic Relationship” seminar over the weekend and I’m adjusting to the knowledge that my WH is a covert narcissist. He fits the classic behaviors and his infidelity is an example of his entitlement and grandiose behavior! And learning that he has emotionally and mentally manipulated me into this web the past few years is a lot to take in. He wasn’t always a covert narcissist, but following his deployments those traits started showing their ugly head!

I’ve seen that his mental and emotional manipulation the past two years is a form of abuse because of the control / power that is used to manipulate. 😢 Honestly so angry! At myself for not seeing it sooner, but also at him for taking advantage of me in the way he has. The infidelity is just one layer of many.

The knowledge I have now really opens my eyes to why he has to have this ongoing contact and why my kibble isn’t as good anymore. I think I started putting my foot down with some of his behaviors two years ago now that I think about it, so naturally his behaviors became more visible, culminating in the entitlement of an EA/PA. I wish I wouldn’t be so reactive though! How long will it take me to just turn it off!?

To him, my emails are always without emotion and very straight forward. But, my initial reaction is anger (or sometimes sadness) and I feel this urge to respond right away! It’s part of that narcissistic control / power wheel they follow. Hence why I just want a few weeks to just breathe and work on breaking that cycle with him.

I decided then that I wouldn’t meet alone with my WH anymore because of that incident (always a witness, mediator or someone in the same place to avoid that type of confrontation).

I think that's a smart decision and I'd stick to it if I were you. Whenever you do decide to have this meeting, either have it out in public at a restaurant or whatever, or make sure you've invited your parents again. Narcs say a lot of things to get what they want, but when they're thwarted, they become nasty.

I don't really know if my input is important at this point.Fast your life forward a few more years if you will. I love the input on this site and goodness I wished I had seen this prior to my situations.I say that because venus you are light-years ahead of me at this point in my life. You have SI.You have the support and sage advise of Chamomile Tea.Love that name.Chamomile I have written several of your comments down for future reference in case I need to help someone.Some of them had me rolling in the aisle with laughter.Venus...I am many years down the road of the type of pain you felt.My past partner that caused it ?Honestly...I'm very Meh about them.Don't love them don't hate them either.This didn't change the damage it inflicted though.I suffer from CPTSD from it though.I relive the trauma.Take care of your psyche.Continue to look into the understanding and healing in your soul to prevent the aftermath that a narcissist can inflict.I am a constant work in progress in this area I have flashbacks sometimes like a Vietnam Veteran.I can also reassure that if you choose your future will be blessed beyond what you can even imagine.I now have a loving spouse who cares for me and is so amazing.I never thought I wouldn't care about my past partner but I don't.I still have to deal with the fallout now and again.I am so proud of you in the steps you're taking.Stay strong .Good things are ahead if you want it.

I know this is off topic but I saw in a previous post you mentioned AC/DC.Love their music.A couple of songs I really like today are 'I'm so Glad Trouble Don't Last Always' by Luke Winslow- King and 'Henry Nearly killed Me (It's a Shame) ' by Ray LaMontagne.

You are under no obligation to respond to his emails. Or if he comes to the door. He has his life and you have yours. Leave it at that.