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The Book Club :
Book: Cheating in a Nutshell: What Infidelity Does to the Victim

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BlackRaven ( member #74607) posted at 7:23 AM on Saturday, December 26th, 2020

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[This message edited by BlackRaven at 1:24 AM, December 26th (Saturday)]

posts: 339   ·   registered: Jun. 17th, 2020
id 8619671
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gmc94 ( Guide #62810) posted at 7:53 PM on Saturday, December 26th, 2020

Read the book.

I think a more apt description would be that the authors/columnists were prompted by the letters.

They then looked at research about infidelity, trauma, etc. and presented what they found.

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3826   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8619752
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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 1:13 PM on Sunday, December 27th, 2020

I've never done a book review or report from back when I had to do those without first reading the book.

I agree with gmc94.

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
DDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4705   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8619867
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skeetermooch ( member #72169) posted at 2:41 AM on Monday, December 28th, 2020

That book is a revelation. The research they pulled together and cited is pretty undeniable. It is the best description of the human response to infidelity and why these innate self-protection mechanisms make reconciling, or reconciling happily, mostly impossible. There are exceptions to everything of course.

Years ago when I was with another SA cheater, I found a website - don't remember the name now - but the author was reconciled with her SA husband and he was supposedly maintaining sobriety. They were doing all of the things one does - lie detectors, 12 step, net nanny software and policing his media intake so he wasn't triggered. She was the poster child of reconciliation with a serial cheater. I looked her up after dday. She's now divorced and runs a site encouraging folks to leave.

As a few folks have mentioned - one offs and serial cheaters are often very different beasts.

Me: BS 56 on DDay 1 - 7/2019 DIVORCED - 1/2021

posts: 1248   ·   registered: Nov. 28th, 2019
id 8620037
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4eyes ( new member #78445) posted at 9:56 PM on Wednesday, March 24th, 2021

Thanks so much for the recommendation. I just finished this book and feel empowered to make the decision that is right for me.

posts: 9   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2021   ·   location: Ohio
id 8644823
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TwoDozen ( member #74796) posted at 11:50 AM on Wednesday, March 31st, 2021

Read this book 2 weeks after deciding to separate. Have to agree with almost everything the book describes. Well worth a read and I will be hanging onto it to read again if I ever feel my decision to separate was not the right one.

posts: 408   ·   registered: Jul. 6th, 2020
id 8646860
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Sadismynewname ( member #63897) posted at 1:52 AM on Monday, April 5th, 2021

Oh I wish I had read this book sooner. I was getting that I should forgive and didn’t understand why I was finding it difficult. Now I get it. I had a counselor that did the what is your ownership of this. I thought my god I don’t think I have any. I was right I didn’t! I did loving things in my marriage. I also thought it was bull that marriages are better after this and their research essentially told me what I thought was true. I have stayed but only because we are old and now are almost 40 years of marriage. He has forever poisoned our marriage and I know I will never love him again.

posts: 194   ·   registered: May. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Northwest
id 8648100
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Emotionalhell ( member #39902) posted at 12:30 PM on Wednesday, April 7th, 2021

Thank you for the book recommendation. The book has helped me understand “why getting past the affair” has been so hard and that I may never recover to the point that emotions don’t get stirred up in me when I have a memory come to mind.

Me BS x2. 50Divorced WH #1Currently in limbo (with wayward #2)Dday #1 Oct. 2014Dday # 2 August 2018

posts: 1744   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2013
id 8648538
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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 4:34 PM on Thursday, April 8th, 2021

Sadismynewname, I separated in the 41 year of marriage. The divorce was final not long before when the 43rd anniversary would have been. I was 26 years old when we married so you can see I'm getting up there in years.

We could have lived very comfortably together but it's more difficult financially now. However, there was no way I could live under that stress. It surely has shortened my life already but would have compounded it if continuing to live with it. Triggers still happen and sometimes thoughts get out of control but my betrayer isn't in my face every day.

Everyone has to determine the best solution for themselves. That was mine. Yours needs to be for you. I just wanted to give you another perspective.

The book is so good. I wished every new betrayed who comes here would read it early in the process.

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
DDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4705   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8648864
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Emotionalhell ( member #39902) posted at 4:12 AM on Sunday, April 11th, 2021

@steadychevy I wish I had read this book early on.

Me BS x2. 50Divorced WH #1Currently in limbo (with wayward #2)Dday #1 Oct. 2014Dday # 2 August 2018

posts: 1744   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2013
id 8649577
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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 3:37 AM on Monday, April 12th, 2021

Me, too, Emotionalhell. I didn't read it until after separation. It was recommended earlier on SI by someone but I just added it to my list of books to buy and didn't buy it until a couple of years ago. Much earlier would have been exponentially better.

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
DDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4705   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8649818
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Shehawk ( member #68741) posted at 3:16 PM on Thursday, April 22nd, 2021

Guy

Thank you for this book review. You are a great writer..The review was so articulate. I wish I could copy a good portion of what you wrote and post it on my Facebook page and credit it to an anonymous internet post

I will have to read the book too.

"It's a slow fade...when you give yourself away" so don't do it!

posts: 1111   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2018   ·   location: VA
id 8652886
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SI Staff ( Moderator #10) posted at 12:00 AM on Monday, January 3rd, 2022

Bump smile

posts: 10009   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 8707061
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Repossessed ( member #79544) posted at 2:38 AM on Monday, January 3rd, 2022

So many relevant, affirming, and resonant observations in this thread.

The reactions that many betrayed spouses feel are not the result of personality peculiarities but are built into the human organism biologically.


trauma from deliberate human action by an intimate, by someone whom you have let into your inner sanctum of intimacy, is the most severe and searing


Infidelity wounds because it is an attack from the human being with the highest level of access to our private, personal, intimate information


A betrayed knows with certainty that their spouse does not love him or her exclusively


So I can see the point they make to leave as realistic and in the best interest of the betrayed. I also suggest that people do it before they are so worn down that they are numb to living


Removing myself from the "scene of the crime" and the person who committed it was the #1 healing thing for me


I mean, how do we know that a scientist might not discover a few years from now that certain people's brains just have a strong disposition for not accepting injustice?

This seems to be where brain science is leaning in any case.

This would not make you a grudge holder, but rather a person predisposed to be among those who have always made positive changes in society through their courage and singular moral clarity.

Maybe that's the case?

And if it is, it just makes you a damn strong person who is unbowed, unbroken and unwilling to bend a knee to anyone.


After all, none of us would be still visiting SI if everything were completely healed.


And finally, I don't care if Esther Perel is personally building a landing pad for the second coming of Christ.... she's a wayward apologist who is full of shit.

lol

That infidelity and the attitude that informed it and made it possible laid bare much of his self serving narrative that also informed our marriage.


I think that often, the wayward is absolutely *loathe* to see themselves as a truly dishonest, untrustworthy, dishonorable person. It's a huge ego hit


As a few folks have mentioned - one offs and serial cheaters are often very different beasts.

And on that last quote, in 'Not Just Friends' Glass observes that "If you are the marital partner of someone who has been having an affair, you have to be able to figure out whether the lying is an idiosyncratic consequence of this particular situation or an embedded trait that is a matter of character and personality." That one smacked me between the eyes.

In the post mortem I've realized that even though my cheater wasn't a serial, she's always been secretive, sneaky, and avoided transparency. She's always had as Marriageredux959 observed 'the attitude that informed it' (the cheating).

You just can't reconcile with that, and I don't buy into the even rarest of possibilities of metanoia when as Glass describes it, it's 'an embedded trait.'

Here to keep myself mindful that I don't always see what actually is. I certainly didn't when I married her.

posts: 217   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2021   ·   location: Chicagoland
id 8707076
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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 7:40 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

Read the book and disagree that they have a pessimistic view of recovery. Rather, it is a realistic view of the likelihood of any longterm viability of the marriage. Recent research into infidelity and the longterm effects have borne this out, as marriage survival rates drop off significantly after the 5 year mark, which, curiously enough, is the length of time it takes for a BS to heal. It is at the 5 year mark that the BS can finally take an objective look at the relationship and truly assess if it is what they want. Often it is not, as they have come tosee theirvpartber for who they really are.

I wonder if a universally hardline approach might change attitudes to betrayal as it is automatically seen as a relationship killer? Probably not, but it might save some betrayed partners a lot of needless anguish.

Me:55 STBXWW:55 DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off and filed. Denied having an affair in court papers.

Divorced 2022!!!!

posts: 1363   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8708747
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StrugglingCJ ( member #72778) posted at 8:47 AM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

After nearly 3 yrs post DDay 2 I have finally read this book.. And I seriously wish I had read it much much sooner.

Yes it is pessimistic, however they have focused on the huge numbers of letters they recieved from people struggling with infidelity, and as such have just focused on the the actual ramifications of cheating.

Because healing is hard, and yes there may be a few success stories where the marriage turns a corner for the better after the affair, but I think in the majority they either end soon after DDay, or limp along until the BS heals, gets their mind back on an even keel and sees the WS for what they actually are and then decides to either quit, or just accept the shit sandwich.

Regardless of the outcome though the book is incredibly insightful, and a must read.

WW caught in EA May 17
DDay Mar 19 it was full PA
Struggling for R, but still trying.

posts: 252   ·   registered: Feb. 10th, 2020   ·   location: Essex
id 8709482
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 12:27 AM on Friday, October 14th, 2022

Bump

WW/BW

posts: 2952   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8759434
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bw900 ( member #47732) posted at 2:46 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

I recently finished this book. I also wish I had read it sooner. It has helped me understand why at 7.5 years out I still struggle to feel happy in my marriage. This book has given me very important validation that has been hard to find in my experience as a BS. I'm so glad to have discovered it here on SI!

I'm not sure I would have chosen D vs R anyway, especially since we still had a son at home at the time of discovery, but my expectations for healing might have been more realistic. And maybe I would have made a different decision (?). shocked

Also,the timing of when I could read certain books has been important. Some had to wait until some of the pain had been processed other ways or just after some time had passed. sad

Me: BW 67 (59 at dday) WH: 68 (60 at dday)
D-day 1/2015 EA/PA 1.25 year w/COW
M 31 yrs, 4 grown kids
Reconciling, which is not easy! Still Grieving what I thought our M was and who I thought he was

posts: 264   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2015   ·   location: USA
id 8766575
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Emotionalhell ( member #39902) posted at 3:43 PM on Saturday, November 26th, 2022

I found this book very helpful.

Me BS x2. 50Divorced WH #1Currently in limbo (with wayward #2)Dday #1 Oct. 2014Dday # 2 August 2018

posts: 1744   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2013
id 8766795
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