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Caught her in a lie, might be done

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Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 4:38 AM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

OMG, you "make my heart hurt?" Honestly InkHulk, this is Borderline shit. I am sooo sorry.

posts: 2058   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8791534
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66charger ( member #69471) posted at 4:42 AM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

As a father to a daughter who just passed the teenage years, I will keep my focus on the only thing that matters

A 40 year old man creeped on your daughter. And your wife knew about it.

No one one would disagree with this statement if this happened to their child.

A female child goes thru so much shit these days. As a father, you must be the voice of reason, the protector, the trusted. There are so many more battles to fight for your child until she stabilizes into adulthood. Self sabotage and an eating disorder are the worst. I worry about my daughter almost every day. The feeling of helplessness can kill you.

You are not helpless in this case.

Something highly inappropriate happened to your daughter. Her boyfriend stepped up. It is your turn to step in.

Contact law enforcement and let them do the digging. They will not let this go. It is not your responsibility (or anyone else who wrote on this thread) to determine what the OM (or your wife) was thinking.

Sometimes you really should burn the witch and the warlock.

[This message edited by 66charger at 4:48 AM, Friday, May 19th]

posts: 334   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2019
id 8791536
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 4:48 AM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

Honestly InkHulk, this is Borderline shit.

My IC first suggested she could be BPD in my descriptions of her. I looked up the characteristics and I am of the opinion that she checks the boxes. It took me a while but I found a way to suggest it to her, after she started talking about complex PTSD. She says she talked to her IC about it and the IC doesn’t care much for labels, or some shit like that. I think from what I know about it, which isn’t a lot, that it’s a possibility.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1989   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791537
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 9:39 AM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

Hulkster, you already have EVERY reason to separate even if your WW isn’t a willing accomplice to a gun nut pedophile. It has already been established that the AP is a straight up weirdo and that your WW is in need of serious therapy that probably won’t yield the results needed to achieve a wholistic R in your lifetime so, I’ll say it again, stop focusing on the AP who, with the evidence at hand, isn’t going to serve a day in the pokey and, stop looking for validation that you’re doing the right thing.

Get on that D train and start moving towards divorce and, if your WW has what it takes to R, she’ll throw herself on the tracks ahead of you. She’ll figure it out. She’ll convince you to get on the R train and she’ll keep you securely on that train from here to eternity.

The BS’s job is relatively simple. Move towards divorce until your WW convinces you otherwise. She’s got till the ink hits the decree. If she’s making progress, slow the pace towards divorce. If the progress is consistent, halt the divorce.

Time is of the essence. If you linger in limbo too long, you’ll unnecessarily expose you and your kids to post affair limbo toxicity, you’ll literally wallow in it, and waste precious time moving on to better things.

Focusing on the AP holds you back.
Focusing on the future puts the A and the AP behind you and gives you and the kids SOMETHING to look forward to, something hopeful.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:46 AM, Friday, May 19th]

posts: 1307   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8791546
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 11:09 AM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

InkHulk

Focus on the end-game – the result.

I feel like I’m sometimes misunderstood on this site when I say if you want to reconcile – reconcile. If you want to divorce – divorce. Very often (and we have one instance in JFO right now) a betrayed spouse will be shouting DIVORCE! but the actions will whisper "but I really want to reconcile". The (IMHO) best action-plan is different depending on what you want.

You have told us very clearly you want a divorce.
Focus on that.

Don’t try to understand why your WW allowed this contact and how she could have and all that. It’s not of any use or value if you are divorcing.

There can be anything from benign to sinister reasons for why the OM was messaging your daughter. Could be as "simple" as OM and WW envisioning themselves as a family-unit, or it could be as sinister as OM grooming her. Right now – for YOU – it’s not the main issue.

Broadly speaking this would be my main focus:
1)Make 100% x 100% x 100 times certain there is absolutely NO contact between daughter and OM.
2)Sit daughter down and make 100% certain she understands that there is something called creepy-contact. That she needs to be aware and take care. Basically the "don’t enter vans to get free candy" talk of the digital age.
3)Evaluate if there is any way to recover the communications – just to evaluate if the content warrants legal action.
4)Focus on divorce. What is the process in your state, what to expect, what the cost…
5)Focus on emotional detachment. You can be civil and non-confrontational with your wife until one of you can move out. It’s like an employee you fired for being constantly late – once you serve him notice and he’s doing the severance time you shouldn’t be surprised or argumentative if he still sleeps in…

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12436   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8791547
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 11:51 AM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

Show me where I said it was in any way appropriate

It wasn't your posts I was referring to.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6703   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8791553
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 12:03 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

There is a huge difference between a stepfather,and a man who is having an affair with a woman, and requesting private access to her 16 year old daughter.

She didn't need a man to come in,and give her "sage advice." This is not a girl without a good,loving father.

I don't know. Those of us who have been groomed, and recognize this for what it was, seem to be being dismissed by a few who have never been groomed,as if we are simply overreacting and being silly.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6703   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8791557
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BreakingBad ( member #75779) posted at 12:26 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

HS teacher here. Also a mom of HS age kids (DD and DS) and also a person who tries not to assume the worst about others.

The OM reaching out to your DD over messages on her phone is sketchy as F!!! Full stop.

It's a huge violation.

Was he trying to befriend her? Trying to be a father figure? barf Grooming her?

Some combination?

I don't care. Shouldn't have ever happened.

It's a huge violation that should have been recognized by your DD's own mother as such and your W should have blown it up over this breach.

Just barf mad mad barf

So, so sorry that this ever happened and do circle back to your DD about this a few times. Your DD might have compartmentalized this and minimized this to herself in order to cope.

Of course I'm not saying convince her she should be traumatized or ramp it up. You understand that, of course. But give her space and support to process this, because it was sketchy (at the bare minimum) and she shouldn't have had to put up with his regular reachouts to her.

So sorry it happened. Sending support as you take action!

[This message edited by BreakingBad at 12:31 PM, Friday, May 19th]

"...lately it's not hurtin' like it did before. Maybe I am learning how to love me more."[Credit to Sam Smith]

posts: 485   ·   registered: Oct. 31st, 2020
id 8791559
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 12:50 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

I was groomed in early adolescence, and here's my take on the situation.

POSOM sent a series of inappropriate messages, with the apparent knowledge and consent of your wife, to your young teenage daughter. I see no reason to minimize the danger inherent in this scenario. Terrible things could have happened to her; the groundwork was being laid. Until her boyfriend pointed out the creepiness factor, that channel was open and potentially escalating. The fact that nothing worse happened was sheer, dumb luck. Even if POSOM was playing house with DD in a daughter role rather than grooming a sexual approach, the fact remains that (A) that's plenty terrible enough in its own right and (B) he still was granted a clear field for a possible attempt to seduce your child.

That being said, I also think it's important -- not for POSOM's benefit, or your WW's, but for your daughter's -- to recognize what did not happen. All evidence suggests that DD's BF intervened before she built any damaging connection. BF said "this guy is a creeper," so she shrugged and blocked. There was no apparent drama, and lack of drama is a status quo that you want to preserve. You don't want your investigation of the incident to traumatize her more than the actual incident did. You don't want her to internalize that she was in any way at fault for having allowed herself to be groomed.

I'm not implying that you are blaming her, but her perception is as important as reality here, maybe more so. It is highly possible for your words to say "you're ok, I just want you to be aware" while your body language and constant rounds of questions scream that this was a catastrophe. It will be very easy to make her blame herself -- and very hard to convince her otherwise if she gets the idea that you don't trust her regardless of what you're saying aloud.

You're coping with the implosion of your marriage and the role this guy played in it. Her mother won't face up to how she smoothed the path for potential grooming. What you've learned is challenging to navigate in any circumstances, let alone a situation this highly charged. Your ability to check yourself is almost certainly affected.

IMO, the best thing you can do for your daughter is to go straight to her therapist with the story and then step back and allow them to assess and advise you. Counselors are trained in how to ask kids these questions in nonthreatening ways and to identify what qualifies as a mandatory reporting scenario. It will take some time, and that will go against every molecule of your body that is shrieking at you to ACT NOW. But that's exactly why you need a cooler head to intervene.

WW/BW

posts: 3628   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8791563
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Edie ( member #26133) posted at 1:05 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

Bravo BSR 👍🏽

Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 kids 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) R'd.

posts: 6646   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2009   ·   location: Europe
id 8791565
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 1:39 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

Does anyone else feel like (or wish like I do) that this story should end with a big reveal that this is the most elaborate troll of all time? It’s not, but God I wish it was.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1989   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791585
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 1:41 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

Sadly, no, I'm wishing it is a bad dream you get to snap out of.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

posts: 1180   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8791589
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 1:57 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

You have told us very clearly you want a divorce.
Focus on that.

I’m starting to.

Don’t try to understand why your WW allowed this contact and how she could have and all that. It’s not of any use or value if you are divorcing.

I somewhat disagree. I have to think about whether my wife is able to keep my kids safe. And while I don’t believe I have enough here to make conclusions, there is enough to make me concerned.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1989   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791602
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 2:05 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

There is a huge difference between a stepfather,and a man who is having an affair with a woman, and requesting private access to her 16 year old daughter.

She didn't need a man to come in,and give her "sage advice." This is not a girl without a good,loving father.

I’m guessing that POSOM and my (dare I say it) STBXW had as part of their lala-land fantasy this idea that they were the amazing parents and me and OBS were lazy neglectful oafs. My wife definitely leaned into that with her behavior towards OBS’s children. They are blowing up everyone’s world, and they thought they were the heroes of the story. Guys, the degree of fucked up’edness is so high….. Until the facts were laid out this plainly in front of me, there is no way that I could have come to this view of my wife. Even the 3 1/2 years of infidelity was not horrible enough for me to see this. But I can’t unsee it now.

I don't know. Those of us who have been groomed, and recognize this for what it was, seem to be being dismissed by a few who have never been groomed,as if we are simply overreacting and being silly.

Seems like I’ve heard a debate or two around here about believing members personal accounts of their lived experiences.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 2:07 PM, Friday, May 19th]

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1989   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791609
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 2:09 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

I think BSR has hit the right balance of urgency with calm. Forever grateful.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1989   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791612
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 2:28 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

Does anyone else feel like (or wish like I do) that this story should end with a big reveal that this is the most elaborate troll of all time? It’s not, but God I wish it was.

Sadly, you've described nothing so outlandish that it makes me even a tiny bit doubtful that it's all too real. I wish this stuff didn't happen and that this was absolutely wild, but it's not. It's as bad as you think it is, but it's not rare.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 5083   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8791617
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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 3:41 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

When I found out that the ow bought theatre tickets to Wizard of Oz (as it was my dd’s favourite show) and gave the tickets to WH, (they were meant to "accidentally" meet there, WH with my daughter and her with her two kids) it sent me into a full on rage.

Who TF thinks it is normal to groom, emotionally or sexually, their married lover’s kids and bring them into the pig pen with them? Stay in your sleazy, disgusting world you’ve created but don’t bring my innocent kids into it.

Luckily in my case WH refused the tickets as obviously he knew he couldn’t make up any story where he would take dd to the theatre alone and then come home with my daughter mentioning the “lady” they met there.

In your case I’m hoping beyond hope that your wife was "just" playing family with her AP (look how well he gets on with my daughter) out of stupidity, not realising she’s exposing her kid to a sleazy scumbag. The alternative is frightening…

[This message edited by Luna10 at 3:51 PM, Friday, May 19th]

Dday - 27th September 2017

posts: 1850   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: UK
id 8791643
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 4:07 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

Reached out to my IC for resources specializing in teenage sexual trauma. I think DD’s current counselor may be out of her depth on this.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1989   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791658
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 4:09 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

Stay in your sleazy, disgusting world you’ve created but don’t bring my innocent kids into it.

Preach, sister!

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1989   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791660
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 4:47 PM on Friday, May 19th, 2023

"Don’t try to understand why your WW allowed this contact and how she could have and all that. It’s not of any use or value if you are divorcing"

I somewhat disagree. I have to think about whether my wife is able to keep my kids safe. And while I don’t believe I have enough here to make conclusions, there is enough to make me concerned.

Even before this latest revelation, you had plenty of reasons to be concerned about your WW’s judgment and competence as a protective parent. No one is telling you not to be concerned. What they’re saying is, keep moving forward, keep the impetus moving towards a hopeful, secure desired outcome. An object in motion and all that.

And, while you’re on your way down that path, yes-by all means, find out all you can about this possible grooming event, as BSR mentioned, via an objective professional third party (therapist appraisal) of the facts that might reveal: A). something that can be used by a prosecutor or; B). something that can be admissible in a family court and considered when drawing up custody conditions or; C). reveal nothing of use and maybe give you some better peace of mind that you’ve done your due fatherly diligence.

There’s many unhealthy things that can hold a BS in limbo: fear, analysis paralysis, hopium, remnant unreciprocated emotions, codependency and, The Kids. If you’re thinking of sticking around for the sake of the kids, to protect the kids, to not destabilize the kid’s home environment, to keep the AP or future APs out of the kids life, I must warn that this approach comes with serious detriment to consider.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:13 PM, Friday, May 19th]

posts: 1307   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8791686
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