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Newest Member: Ozymandias

General :
Caught her in a lie, might be done

Topic is Sleeping.
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 12:38 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

I disagree that this is par for the course.

Bringing the kids around AP? Yes.

Giving the AP a private connection to their teenaged girl? No.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6626   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8791891
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Grieving ( member #79540) posted at 1:01 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

I don’t have anything to add that hasn’t already been said, but I’ll be another voice saying that a mom creating a situation where her affair partner ends up texting her teenaged daughter is beyond dysfunctional. I feel like that goes beyond the pale of normal cheating spouse behavior and speaks to giant character deficits and a level of blind self absorption and brokenness that would take years of work and 100% effort to change.

Like your wife, I’m a victim of CSA and a conflict avoidant people pleaser. Both of those things have taken a lot of work to overcome as an adult, and I’m still working on myself in those areas. But for those things to overcome the protective parenting instinct? I don’t really like joining pile ons, but this is a pile on because it is NOT normal, and not ok.

Husband had six month affair with co-worker. Found out 7/2020. Married 20 years at that point; two teenaged kids. Reconciling.

posts: 622   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8791894
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 3:00 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

There is a lot I could say, but I’ll keep it kind of brief for now.

Told the kids. It ripped my soul open.

Somehow the talk with my brother and his wife convicted her to tell a little more truth, she emailed them the next morning that she had lied to them when asked if she had been entirely honest with me. She came to me the yesterday morning and confessed two more sexual encounters. I’ll spare the details, but they aren’t good. If there is any bright spot, at least I have some extra ammunition against POSOM if it comes to that.
The house is a strange place. The kids have rebounded quickly. I have no illusions that that is a sign that their hearts were not just permanently scarred, but they are still laughing and playing together, which I’m thankful for. I’m joining them when I can, making horrible call after horrible call to people who need to know, and oscillating between utter broken heartedness and at least a vision of a path that gets me out of this.
I’ll address the restraining order question thoughts quickly. I still have the bomb sitting in my living room. I’m not going to provoke POSOM without iron clad reason to do it. BSR’s advice to get my daughter in to talk with a counselor and let the dispassionate professionals look at this is what I am going to do. If they come out and say it rises to the level of reporting then I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it, because I think it will be a tradeoff of standing up for my daughter (not protecting her, the danger is in the past) versus keeping my kids safe from the sexual image bomb.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1771   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791911
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ramius ( member #44750) posted at 3:50 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Man that really sucks. Have you started contacting divorce lawyers yet?

How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?

Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.

posts: 1655   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2014
id 8791920
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BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 4:35 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Glad you have a plan. Many of us found a weird relief once the decision was made. Limbo is just the worst place.
Your kids will appreciate your treating them with honesty and being the parent they can trust.
Hang in there and keep moving forward.

Me: BS 55 (49 on d-day)Him: WH. 64. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

posts: 5902   ·   registered: Sep. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Northern CA
id 8791923
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 4:53 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

InkHulk

All states bar two have revenge-porn laws that are rather clear and have been tested by the courts and supreme courts of those states. They clearly state that images shared between two consenting adults are private, and that distribution outside that circle can lead to criminal and/or personal charges.
Google "revenge porn laws in states" and you will quickly find an overview. In most states a first offense can lead to a year in prison and a high fine.
You will also note that a key-factor is the expectation that the images are only to be shared between the sender and recipient. That can be done with a formal letter sent to and signed for by the OM.

You keep talking about this bomb, yet you have the key to defuse it…

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12286   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8791927
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 4:58 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Bigger, you did listen to the whole thread about that, right? I’m taking the prudent view of many lawyers on this.
And I know your pet peeve is people saying they don’t have options. I’m afraid you are going to have to deal with the fact that the wise consensus here is I don’t have good options there.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 5:03 PM, Sunday, May 21st]

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1771   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791928
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 5:00 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Can anyone help me understand why she would confess and then do this to me? To the age old question of which is better, for the wayward to keep their dirty conscience and spare the betrayed, or to give the betrayed back their agency: I apparently got both the agony and the lies. What the fuck?

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1771   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791929
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 5:16 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Once again:
All but 2 states have clear revenge porn laws. Did the wise attorneys on this site ask what state your are in?
There are numerous support groups for revenge-porn victims, with advice and support about what to do. I suggested you contact one of those groups. Have you?

Tik tock… tick tock…. That’s the bomb you refuse to defuse.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12286   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8791930
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 5:17 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Your wife is still lying and trickle truthing. Complete written timeline, all questions answered in writing, polygraph to confirm. Then she can talk.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2586   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8791931
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 5:22 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

All but 2 states have clear revenge porn laws. Did the wise attorneys on this site ask what state your are in?

Yes, my state is in the 96%. That isn’t the point.


There are numerous support groups for revenge-porn victims, with advice and support about what to do. I suggested you contact one of those groups. Have you?

The point is I’m trying to prevent my children from BECOMING victims of revenge porn. Your perspective has been heard.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1771   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791932
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 5:52 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Bigger: I know you are trying to help. What is probably true here is that if it is appropriate to take legal action against POSOM for the grooming then I would want to in parallel do something like the C&D about the sexual images. That seems like the best option to me. Sorry if I came across short there, I am in a pretty rough spot right now.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1771   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791934
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emergent8 ( Guide #58189) posted at 7:18 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Can anyone help me understand why she would confess and then do this to me?

Confessing (outside of a ONS immediate remorse scenario) is somewhat rare but I’ve certainly from the stories I’ve read, a confession certainty doesn’t equate to a FULL confession. Trickle truth or ongoing lies is incredibly common whether the WS confesses or not.

If you’re looking for a firsthand explanation, I believe BSR and HikingOut are both fWS who confessed. Both are incredible resources for both BS and WS alike. I could be wrong about this, but I don’t think either confessed with 100% of the story from the beginning (as I say this I could be mistaken about HikingOut but I definitely recall her saying she was still VERY foggy for at least 6 months post d-day). They may have some specialized insight. If neither responds here, I would encourage you to ask in the BS questions for WS thread in I Can Relate. By the way, if you haven’t already read through that thread in full, I’d really recommend it.

My husband didn’t confess, so take it for what it’s worth, but I think Waywards who confess do it for themselves -for THEIR conscience or maybe what they perceive as being for the good of the marriage at the time - not truly for the BS’s well-being or for the purpose of giving the BS true agency over the situation. Typically, the confessing WS is motivated to save the marriage. From that perspective it makes sense that they may wish to add certain spin or omit certain details that present it in a light that is going to improve the way the information is received (I think that most of us do this, to some degree in other aspects of our lives).

Even in scenarios where the affair has ended and the fog is lifting, it is not yet gone. They have not yet challenged the ‘story’ they have told themselves about what the A was all about - the same story they used to justify actions that they would have previously deemed unacceptable. There is a lot of cognitive dissonance. I also think that sometimes, saying something out loud (or writing it), can lead to it sounding totally different than than the way it sounded in your head. That can be eye opening and scary. They may not realize how it sounds to another person until it’s too late, at which time it becomes an exercise in damage control.

To that end, I assume most Waywards, those who confess or those who don’t, have no appreciation for the degree of devastation it has on their BS. We hear that over and over and over again from both WSs and BSs alike. This rings true to me because I, myself, would never have imagined in a million years the depth of pain my husband’s betrayal could cause. On some cases, ongoing lies is an attempt to quell the bleeding, so to speak.

I also imagine that for some, lying to avoid confrontation, consequences, or hard conversations is part and parcel of who they are (and likely part of the reason that they got into this situation in the first place). It’s a habit. Habits are notoriously hard to change We don’t wake up one day, decide to drop our bad habits (drugs, over-eating, procrastination, perfectionism, lateness, and yes, lying) and then "poof" everything in our character, and thought processes, and lifestyle that led to these those habits is cured. Often, even when we know something is an issue, we don’t have the best insight into how and why we got there or the tools to fix it. We need to hard work, determination, support, humility, and a willingness to screw up, acknowledge our mistakes, and learn from them. You’ve used the drug addict analogy before, so I know you are comfortable with it, but most addicts don’t get better just by acknowledging the problem and taking the first step towards recovery. Most flounder and relapse and fall back on their previous maladaptive coping strategies. Some being able to make real lasting changes, many do not. We spend a lot of time talking about WHYs and it is sometimes dismissed as being an excuse, but becoming a safe partner is about so much more than deciding not to cheat. I imagine most WSs have no appreciation for that when they make the decision to confess.

Before someone jumps on my response, as diminishing the gravity of all of this as "typical wayward spouse silliness", please know that i am just trying to answer the question, I am not suggesting that it’s acceptable or that InkHulk should change his current course of action.

Me: BS. Him: WS.
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Happily reconciled.

posts: 2028   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8791944
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emergent8 ( Guide #58189) posted at 7:22 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

To add: I’m sorry InkHulk. You’ve had a lot thrown at you the past week. In the circumstances, i’m not at all surprised that there are more details and things she has not been truthful about (the refusing to answer questions thing was not a great sign) but I am very sorry you are hurting. It’s all so awful.

Me: BS. Him: WS.
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Happily reconciled.

posts: 2028   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8791945
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straightup ( member #78778) posted at 8:00 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

InkHulk

You should ask her why she told you.

And why now.

It won’t necessarily be one thing. The manner of her response to the question will convey as much information as the content.

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 342   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8791947
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 8:24 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

I don't normally give a suggested single path of advice. I would not engage in any further discussion of anything other than logistics until you have a complete set of information in writing and confirmed. At this point talking is playing her game on her field.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 8:24 PM, Sunday, May 21st]

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2586   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8791949
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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 8:27 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

Can anyone help me understand why she would confess and then do this to me? To the age old question of which is better, for the wayward to keep their dirty conscience and spare the betrayed, or to give the betrayed back their agency: I apparently got both the agony and the lies. What the fuck?

I got a much belated confession, years and years later, and then the dreaded trickle truth. So, I'm in the agony AND lies department.

The confession is always better to me than trying to take a secret to the proverbial grave. Truth always wills out anyway, it does. Sometimes it takes a while, but it does.

Returning our agency is a concept that some WS understand and some don't. All WS live reality as it occurs during an A, the lies, the double life, their futile justifications for their choices, etc. Unless someone is mad hatter or have been cheated on before, some WS never understand that our reality has been STOLEN from us.

They lean into what we don't know will NOT hurt us. It's a bad survival tactic that hurts us far more than they can wrap their heads around.

Our MC, a BS himself in the relationship counseling biz for 40 years now said he never met a WS who owned it all out of the gate and confessed all out of the gate. We do have a couple members here who fully confessed, I believe it happens, but it is extremely rare.

Most WS hold on to shit too long because they are 100 percent certain, the next truth or the next real detail will end the relationship.

Sometimes it is an evil act or a manipulation, I imagine most times they hold on to information out of fear.

No one wants to be seen or known for their worst choices ever.

Married 35+ years, together 41+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived. M Restored.
"It is better to conquer our grief than to deceive it." — Seneca

posts: 4699   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: Home.
id 8791950
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 8:41 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023

You are sounding exhausted, mentally, and physically. At this point you need a list of things that need to be done. My suggestion is always to do the next thing. After that’s done do the next one. Continue down that list until….
I also suggest that you get those kids out of the house with you and go do some fun stuff. You are still a dad. You need to get out from under the excruciating pain and go do something to get yourself out of your own head. There are things that you can do with your kids that can help with that.
I don’t know if you’ve talked to a doctor, but you might need something for sleep and anxiety. The bad thing about this mess you are dealing with is that it’s also doing a number on your stress levels. If you need help get help.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4204   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8791951
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 4:14 AM on Monday, May 22nd, 2023

InkHulk, I got to the point where I realized that my XWH'S thought process want making sense to me and probably never would. His thought process is disordered. Trying to apply logic to an illogical situation isn't going to work.

Do you have batting cages, miniature golf or something that might involve hitting something? Maybe you and your kids can go do something to get rid of frustrations. Or go see a movie, walk around the mall, go have burgers and the most outrageous milkshakes you can get.

Sometimes your brain and emotions need some down time. Time for brain candy.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3301   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8791975
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JasonCh ( member #80102) posted at 6:02 AM on Monday, May 22nd, 2023

InkHulk,

You asked;

Can anyone help me understand why she would confess and then do this to me? To the age old question of which is better, for the wayward to keep their dirty conscience and spare the betrayed, or to give the betrayed back their agency: I apparently got both the agony and the lies. What the fuck?

I cannot answer for her -- nor for you. I will *try* to answer for me. Our WW reactions are similar enough in tone that much of what you have been through seems like an old friend come to see me again. I do not think your WW confessed to do anything but appease you -- to get you to drop it or rug sweep just get things back to normal. In the end you may have 1% of the truth or 99% of the truth.

None of this was for you (or your family's) benefit. The show was for her benefit -- what suited her in that moment. This continued pattern of behavior is what in the end got me to say enough. I wanted to stay married and give reconciliation a go. Because it is what i wanted, and what i thought we had, it was so foreign to me that she in reality did not want those things. That her lie was good enough -- which meant i was only good enough as her lie, the kids were only good enough for her lies, our family and friends the same.

I guess what i am trying to say is she never confessed -- you heard a confession but that is not at all what she was offering.

Peace.

posts: 431   ·   registered: Mar. 18th, 2022
id 8791980
Topic is Sleeping.
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