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Holy shit, the day has come that I agree with WBFA over Emergent and CT. Will wonders never cease?

Have you run a background check on this guy? Are there any previous incidents of inappropriate sexual behavior with minor children? Any criminal activity? Is there any way to restore those messages? Did your WW read the contents before she deleted and is she willing to take a polygraph regarding whether there was sexual intent in them?

What we know about the AP is that he ignores boundaries. That's typical of AP's. It doesn't make every AP a pervert though. All we know so far is that he used endearments and talked about kittens. Your brain is going to be treating this situation like it's an emergency, but that's just trauma and rage. Your DD is not in current danger and you have plenty of time to make a determination on what exactly happened and decide how you want to handle it.

Breathe... particularly when you feel the rage surfacing, four-square breathing.. in-2-3-4, hold-2-3-4-, out-2-3-4, hold-2-3-4, and repeat. It will actually help lower your blood pressure if you remember to do it. Your daughter is safe. Whatever danger there might have been has passed. And you are sufficient to the day.

I don't think this is much different than any of that.

I think this goes back to OldWounds and BFTG’s exchange of is just a different risk or a "horse of a different color"? (Yes, I was listening). And for as many stories as I’ve read around here, not many cross this line.

I don't think her actions here are tantamount to handing off your daughter to a known sexual predator.

Except from what it looks like, she may have done exactly that, one to whom she had already been the prey. And maybe, if God does not in fact have it out for me (that patience of Job came from somewhere) DD’s boyfriend saved the day. And WW gets no credit for that.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 11:10 PM, Thursday, May 18th]

All we know so far is that he used endearments and talked about kittens.

You forgot a few things. And that he fucked me wife. And that he has a massive body count. And that he talked my wife past all her boundaries over this very medium. And that he is unstable and loves guns. And that he intentionally sought out private conversation with my 16 year old daughter. And that my daughter recognized a 40 year old man as needy. And that he initiated contact daily. But yes, kittens too.

Your brain is going to be treating this situation like it's an emergency, but that's just trauma and rage. Your DD is not in current danger and you have plenty of time to make a determination on what exactly happened and decide how you want to handle it.

Breathe... particularly when you feel the rage surfacing, four-square breathing.. in-2-3-4, hold-2-3-4-, out-2-3-4, hold-2-3-4, and repeat. It will actually help lower your blood pressure if you remember to do it. Your daughter is safe. Whatever danger there might have been has passed. And you are sufficient to the day.

I see what you did there, and I thank you for it.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 11:00 PM, Thursday, May 18th]

Your DD is not in current danger

You don’t know that.

I would call your wife "perpetrator adjacent."

This0Is0Fine, you should copyright this thing!

I'm curious as to why some posters think this isn't grooming - if this was a WS texting an AP, wouldn't we call the significant amount of texts and pet names an EA? Or fishing if the WS was texting a potential AP like this? How does their age gap suddenly make this seem less inappropriate than if it was happening between two adults?

This was asked several pages ago. I don't think those who think this was not big deal have responded.

If this was a married man,messaging a married woman like this,we would say he was fishing.

Not all Predators have an arrest record.

He asked to switch to the kids phone to "give her sage advice."

How anyone can think this was in any way appropriate boggles my mind.

MANY Predators get to their victims through their too trusting mother.

I'm sure she didn't intend to put her daughter in a potentially harmful situation. That doesn't change the fact that she did. Maybe it was the fog,at first. But that lifted long ago. It's been nearly a year since dday. She hasn't attempted to talk to her daughter about it. She didn't tell the IC. She didn't tell her husband who has begged for honesty. She kept quiet to protect herself from the fallout. Because she knew it was BAD.

Chalking this up to silly wayward behavior helps no one. Except the WW.

IH..is the boy who read some of the texts,still her boyfriend? Are you friendly with him? Maybe ask him what he read that he thought was creepy.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:11 PM, Thursday, May 18th]

Maybe it was the fog,at first. But that lifted long ago. It's been nearly a year since dday. She hasn't attempted to talk to her daughter about it. She didn't tell the IC. She didn't tell her husband who has begged for honesty. She kept quiet to protect herself from the fallout. Because she knew it was BAD.

Chalking this up to silly wayward behavior helps no one. Except the WW.

I don’t know how anyone could even try to argue with any single word of this.

IH..is the boy who read some of the texts,still her boyfriend? Are you friendly with him? Maybe ask him what he read that he thought was creepy.

He is. I’ve thought about this. I feel like for his age and the subject matter that I’d want to give his parents a heads up first. Thoughts are just swirling. This is truly a D-day 2.

How anyone can think this was in any way appropriate boggles my mind.

Show me where I said it was in any way appropriate. Hellfire, I used YOUR exact quote about how she didn’t know it would happen, but put her daughter in a position to be groomed, in the name of keeping OM close. COULD it have been bad? Certainly. There is zero evidence of that though. Please do not suggest that I do not think child predation is a "big deal".

What if that bastard got her into sextortion? What if he groomed her so well so fast that she thinks she loves him?

InkHulk is clearly spiraling right now. By all means, continue pouring kerosene on it if you think that is helpful, but just so you know, there is no prize for having the harshest take.

Have you run a background check on this guy? Are there any previous incidents of inappropriate sexual behavior with minor children? Any criminal activity?

Can you anonymously run a background check on someone else?

Is there any way to restore those messages?

I’m going to look into it more this weekend.

Did your WW read the contents before she deleted and is she willing to take a polygraph regarding whether there was sexual intent in them?

Right now I’ve got my wife and daughter in general agreement about the vague details I’ve provided. I asked my wife if there was anything in them that would be prosecutable if I were to be able to retrieve them and she said she thought not, but I can’t trust her. I need to at least try to retrieve them, but I don’t have a lot of hope.

Have you run a background check on this guy? Are there any previous incidents of inappropriate sexual behavior with minor children? Any criminal activity? Is there any way to restore those messages? Did your WW read the contents before she deleted and is she willing to take a polygraph regarding whether there was sexual intent in them?

What we know about the AP is that he ignores boundaries. That's typical of AP's. It doesn't make every AP a pervert though. All we know so far is that he used endearments and talked about kittens. Your brain is going to be treating this situation like it's an emergency, but that's just trauma and rage. Your DD is not in current danger and you have plenty of time to make a determination on what exactly happened and decide how you want to handle it.

CT, the guy who raped me when I was 16 still has no charges against him to this day. Do I think I'm the only person he ever raped or assaulted? Noooo. That's very doubtful. He was quite good at planning the scenario to do so and had zero remorse for it.

If he doesn't have previous charges against him, all that means is that no one has taken him to court yet. That doesn't mean he hasn't done anything.

I get that WSs do heinous shit and it's written off as "affair fog" or whatever, but we do get to choose what we will and won't forgive. We all have our own standards of that.

Let's say the guy was just super into kittens and super happy to find someone else to talk to kittens about. It's still gross that a teenager's mom would allow a grown man to text the child about kittens. Because no one really thinks that grown men want to seek out teenagers to discuss kittens with.

InkHulk is clearly spiraling right now.

Alright, I’ll take that voice of reason. Gonna sign off for the night and go try to connect with my kids. Thanks as always for the support.

CT, the guy who raped me when I was 16

So sorry DD.

If he doesn't have previous charges against him, all that means is that no one has taken him to court yet. That doesn't mean he hasn't done anything.

I get that WSs do heinous shit and it's written off as "affair fog" or whatever, but we do get to choose what we will and won't forgive. We all have our own standards of that.

No one has suggested that this is okay, Dee. No one has suggested that whatever line the OP has is somehow wrong.

It does seem to me though that if IH wants to keep future kitten-texters away from his kids though, he needs to build a case for it. Right now, there's no reason to believe that custody wouldn't be joint as is the norm in most jurisdictions. Once custody is settled, the exWW is free to to have a relationship with anyone she wants, and honestly.. stepdads are a crap shoot.

I got wildly lucky and in a time when BOTH of my parents flaked, the man who married my mother and then got dumped a year and a half later remained a constant in my life for forty-five years until a month ago when he died. He was interested in me when I was sixteen, like the dad who wasn't being there for me. If there had been cell phones, he might have texted me every day. In fact, he was the guy who jacked up my boyfriends and kept them behaving themselves. He was the guy who taught my brother a trade. He was a second grandfather to all our kids, a fixture at every family gathering, and eventually, the best friend both of my parents ever had.

I don't share that story to minimize the AP's offense. But the whole idea that any man who talks to a teenager is a pervert seems to be a generalization.

Set aside everything else right now for a brief moment, and evaluate this: is your WW showing remorse, is she completely owning up to all of her actions, is she not blame shifting, is she not being defensive, is she empathetic, is she trying to help you heal, does she truly desire R snd is she showing you this with zero uncertainty in words snd deeds?

Or, is she telling you and showing you that she’s simply on the R train because she knows it’s what you want, it’s more comfortable to stay together, D will look bad with friends/family/community, it’s the safe choice, she knows that no matter what you will offer grace in the end?

You need to decide with your own eyes and ears.

I don't share that story to minimize the AP's offense. But the whole idea that any man who talks to a teenager is a pervert seems to be a generalization.

Alright, this one just broke the record of disagreement. He isn’t just any man talking to any teenager. Even taking my incredibly passionate biased view into account I can see this. He is a man of very poor morals (anyone want to debate me on that?) specifically asking for private access to his AP’s sexually mature but underage daughter. CT, I’m sorry, but what are you talking about? Even if you want to put a shining example forward, would anyone want a wayward man, any physically wayward man, interacting with their daughter the way I have described. Please, speak up and be heard.

Maybe the problem here is this is a forum for infidelity, and I have discovered something altogether different here and I can’t expect support for that here. So we crossed the streams in real time. Probably need to reel that part of the story in and take it off line. Does that make sense to anyone else?

[This message edited by InkHulk at 2:35 AM, Friday, May 19th]

He isn’t just any man talking to any teenager.

Of course not. But if I'm a family court judge, you're going to need proof that this guy molested, or sexually "groomed", your kid before I'm going to limit your WW's custody. Courts don't care about cheating. They just don't. It might privately piss some judges off, but others are cheaters themselves. What they care about is the facts, and in order to get movement, you have to prove your case.

On a sidenote, I don't believe that every man who ever spoke to a teenage girl had sexual designs on her. I, myself, am anecdotal proof of that, but I am NOT saying that your WW's AP is innocent. I'm simply speaking about generalizations when motive is assumed rather than proven. Believe me, I understand the outrage. If any of my fWH's AP's had spoken to my children for ANY reason, I'd have gone apeshit over it.

Of course not. But if I'm a family court judge, you're going to need proof that this guy molested, or sexually "groomed", your kid before I'm going to limit your WW's custody. Courts don't care about cheating. They just don't. It might privately piss some judges off, but others are cheaters themselves. What they care about is the facts, and in order to get movement, you have to prove your case.

I don’t believe that I am anywhere close to where I could make a move for full custody here. I’m not trying to try a case here. I’m trying to figure out what is going on in my now insane life and then find some outlet for the pain of it.

On a sidenote, I don't believe that every man who ever spoke to a teenage girl had sexual designs on her. I, myself, am anecdotal proof of that, but I am NOT saying that your WW's AP is innocent. I'm simply speaking about generalizations when motive is assumed rather than proven. Believe me, I understand the outrage. If any of my fWH's AP's had spoken to my children for ANY reason, I'd have gone apeshit over it.

I’m fine with you pushing back on some generalizations. POSOM is not getting any benefit of the doubt from me here. And sadly, neither is my wife anymore.

Set aside everything else right now for a brief moment, and evaluate this: is your WW showing remorse, is she completely owning up to all of her actions, is she not blame shifting, is she not being defensive, is she empathetic, is she trying to help you heal, does she truly desire R snd is she showing you this with zero uncertainty in words snd deeds?

Not even close.

Or, is she telling you and showing you that she’s simply on the R train because she knows it’s what you want, it’s more comfortable to stay together, D will look bad with friends/family/community, it’s the safe choice, she knows that no matter what you will offer grace in the end?

Something more like this.

She is moving around seeming to be feeling pretty sorry for herself. She seems either fake-y pleasant or annoyed-ish. We had a quick talk tonight about some logistics about the weekend and she said she wants to get away from me for a while because I make her heart hurt. Not sure if it was an attempt to sympathy, but it got none. I shouldn’t be surprised at this point, but for her to have this A, create the bomb, get caught in a lie about our daughter’s sexual and emotional safety, and she’s like this? I don’t want her anymore.