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Completely confused and all over the place

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longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 7:34 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

There was another poster her years ago also called Ozzy, who found himself in a similar situation. He knew his wife was going off to spend time with another man and he was aware, hoping that in the end she would come back to him and they would go back to a normal marriage. That didn't happen, and she left the marriage for the OM. The kids had their lives blown up.

Another poster here years ago agreed to an open marriage after his wife began sleeping with a friend. In time it drove him crazy to the point where he was recording them having sex and posting some of their conversations on this forum.

Friend, this is not going to go well. You are damaged and confused and frankly, no matter how you put your wife on a pedestal, you are being abused. No one should have to live like this. If you said it already, I missed it. Has she cut you off as well? If so, that is simply cruelty to you.

You are also unwillingly being put in a position that you are an accomplice in another woman's destroyed marriage and ultimate grief and pain. Your wife should not be doing this to you or her to meet her own needs. And she is actively betraying her children. I assure you, this will not stay a secret, no matter how hard you try.

You say you feel like a mug. That is because she is treating you like a mug.

By all means seek a counselor. But by all means seek an advocate and learn what your rights are should this travesty of a marriage go south. It is just a question of time.

Just because you love someone does not mean you must stay with them when they put themselves ahead of you and the children. The tortured never should feel compelled to stay with the torturer. Do not sell your soul to save this marriage. She is actively destroying it.

posts: 1208   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2010
id 8783934
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 7:50 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

Please know,when I said you needed to find a different forum,it wasn't meant to be unkind. This site is about getting out of infidelity, not staying in it,and supporting it, which is what you've been doing. There is another BS who is very much being harmed here..and you are helping that. We can't support that.

However, if you are not ok with what's happening..and despite some of the things you've said its clear you are very much NOT ok with it, you will get help in getting out of this situation. If you want to stay married, we can tell you the best way to do that,and not share your wife with another man. This site is an invaluable resource. Everyone here wants you to be ok. We will support you. We will share our hard earned wisdom with you. Many of us have reconciled with our WS. Many of us have been here for years,to give back to the place that helped us. We can help.

Our field of dreams,engulfed in fire..and I'll still see it,till the day I die..

posts: 6773   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8783938
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Shehawk ( member #68741) posted at 8:17 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

I personally will never be anyone's second choice ever again.
As for Esther P. I personally don't have high regard for what she has to say. There are plenty of people who are engaged and faithful long term partners. I personally accept nothing less in my life. An open marriage...particularly one I did not consent to really messed with my head.

"It's a slow fade...when you give yourself away" so don't do it!

posts: 1675   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8783940
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 8:23 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

I think the only reason that she has gone off me physically is because I try too hard.

You know, the truth about why our WS's go off us while they're cheating is typically... that they're cheating.

You're accepting your WW's rationalizations as gospel. I can't even tell you how many bizarre justifications my fWH had made up in his own mind for why it was okay to do the terrible things he was doing. In story after story here on this forum, you'll find WS's rationalizing their choices like it was an Olympic sport.

To take your WW's word for it, that her reason for doing this is that she's not interested in you sexually goes against the history even. You guy's have kids. You've been together for many years. Your sexual history exists, and maybe it's hit a rough patch, but that's when normal people (read non-cheaters) work on it. And doesn't it make more sense that if she was just looking for a hook-up, she'd have advertised for NSA sex on a dating app or something. Instead, she's spent the last four years chatting up an ex. From here, it seems more likely that she's been engaging in a garden-variety affair.

WS's cheat for their own reasons. Nothing you say or do can MAKE another person throw away their truest values and beliefs. If your WW believed in Fidelity. If Fidelity was among her core values, she couldn't just toss her truth out the window like that. Saggy midsections or whatever aside, that's not how people operate. I do think that there are many who would like us to believe that anyone might cheat if the circumstances were conducive, but that's just not the case. We protect what we value, and when we value our belief in faithfulness and monogamy, it doesn't matter what other people are doing. If she cheated because you weren't sexually doing it for her, her belief is that someone needs to be sexually doing it for her, not that her fidelity or her word should mean something.

Long post made shorter, your WW's infidelity is not your fault. NOTHING you did (or didn't do) caused her to abandon her vows or her values. You just don't have that kind of power over other people. As badly as we want to make sense of what our WW's tell us, the underlying energy is often that we want to feel more in control of the situation. If it's our fault, we can change things, right?

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 7061   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8783941
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LookWhatYouDid ( new member #78771) posted at 8:48 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

Please don’t misunderstand the points that were made - I’d bet every poster participating in this thread wants you to continue posting here. The love is delivered in so many different fashions. Each person here has a unique story, so there are a variety of insights & perspectives. Please keep posting.

Find the strength to tell yourself that you don’t have to stay in the pot just because you were present as your wife slowly brought it to a boil. Doesn’t matter that you hopped in there… now it is hotter than hell, and you have every right to say no way.

posts: 32   ·   registered: May. 9th, 2021
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 8:50 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

Because rightly or wrongly, I agreed to this, so I have to suck it up now.

You made that agreement under duress, because you felt like it was the only way you could keep your family together. When you think about it though, your WW made an agreement too, fifteen years ago when she married you. How is your desire to walk back an agreement made under duress less valid that her walking back one she made eagerly?

You are NOT without options. Yeah, it's a mess, but you're going to get through it. Have faith that you'll be okay. Infidelity sucks, no doubt about it. But we do get through it.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 7061   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
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Greto ( member #80904) posted at 8:56 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

My ex WH had multiple EA's throughout our marriage, all of which I knew about. He gaslighted me and was never honest like your wife has been but I remember sitting there in the living room while he continued on with his online affair because I was convinced it would pass and he would get his head out of his ass. He never did, just moved from one to the next.

Clearly, our marriage didn't end well (he was abusive on top of the cheating). But if I could go back I would tell myself what a fool I was for thinking "it will be okay just let him have his fun."

I can understand your situation but I don't think this is healthy. Your wife needs counseling.

posts: 115   ·   registered: Sep. 9th, 2022   ·   location: Sandusky, Ohio
id 8783945
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 9:13 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

Just put the boys to bed and need to switch off for the evening but pretty overwhelmed by the response, thanks all.

One thing I haven't said so far as it shouldn't matter, but really does...

I have given myself the name "ozzy" as I am Australian. If we broke up then I have loads of friends but most are mutual. All of my family are in Australia and I obviously don't want to move there because my kids are here (and I couldn't take them to Australia, that would be brutal to them).

There is a lot at stake here. Hope you can all understand that sad

posts: 176   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8783947
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Lurkingsoul12 ( member #82382) posted at 9:24 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

That is the point, ozzy. There's lot at stake here. Your wife shouldn't be doing this for that exact same reason. Risking everything for some fantasy? Do you really believe there will be happy ending for this?
Earlier, you mentioned about lots of infidelity affected couples successfully reconciling. Do you know how they reconciled? Definitely not by enabling affair to take place. People reconcile only when this fantasy bullshit is killed and when BS takes the charge and stop tolerating this bullshit. Your wife's fantasy is rabbit hole. It will only go deeper and deeper. The more deeper she goes in, the more difficult it will be to pull her out.

posts: 457   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2022
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 10:20 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

A little confused myself on your last statement. I live in the U.S.A. so I am not familiar with the laws where you are. Are you saying that if you two divorced you would be "forced" to move to Australia because of some law? I would think since you are Australian you would have no trouble staying and working in the U.K. and wouldn't have to relocate your children.

Maybe you can explain?

posts: 286   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8783956
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 10:39 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

A little confused myself on your last statement. I live in the U.S.A. so I am not familiar with the laws where you are. Are you saying that if you two divorced you would be "forced" to move to Australia because of some law? I would think since you are Australian you would have no trouble staying and working in the U.K. and wouldn't have to relocate your children.

Maybe you can explain?

I am a dual citizen so I don't have to go anywhere. I just mean that my life here is mostly based on my wife and kids, so if things blew up I'd be torn between my kids needs and my own. But that basically describes right now as well....

posts: 176   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 11:00 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

Do you have any hobbies that are more male dominated, such as martial arts?

One trait mentioned in the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy", by Robert Glover, is that "Nice Guys" seem to have trouble or be uncomfortable being friends with other males.

I believe you mentioned that you were getting into shape. One way to make some male friends and get into shape at the same time might be to join a Jujitsu or Muay Thai dojo. You would probably be welcomed in probably immediately, and you might enjoy the male camaraderie.

Personally I think it healthy that each marriage partner have their own group of same sex friends. My wife and I have mutual friends, but she and I each have our own groups of same sex friends. Hers is a sewing circle. I have friends I meet at the gym, where we also go fishing together from time to time.

On the other hand, you may already have plenty of male friends you can share stuff with and this post is not appropriate to your situation.

Just a suggestion.

posts: 286   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8783964
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straightup ( member #78778) posted at 12:26 AM on Saturday, March 25th, 2023

There are a few Aussies here, including yours truly.

I have been bobbing around here for a couple of years.

It’s a good group of people all up. The site has been around for years and there seem to have been a score or so of very wise heads. When one steps back another one gets tapped and steps up. Other sites have great regulars also, but not the same depth and legacy, in my opinion. You can’t buy it, although you can supplement it by reading, especially the standard texts like those of Linda MacDonald and Shirley Glass.

A few dozen other regular posters add lots of perspectives. And new posters like you bring their life experience.

I suggest you stick around.

It is a site which values honesty. Even where you have been badly treated, and you have, no one will encourage dishonesty except in the most exceptional circumstances like an imminent risk of danger. Getting out of infidelity is rather like finding radical honesty, through reconciliation (like me) or divorce (like many other good people here). Being stuck in the middle just sucks, for you, your wife, and your kids.

You may be unconventional. Some people who are are driven by a need to live authentically and honestly. Some are just posers. Be the former, to the best of your ability, nearly all the time, don’t be ashamed, and speak it out loud to your wife.

I think for starters you have to insist the affair ends. Alternatively if it countries the other betrayed spouse is told and you begin a hard 180. That’s a start. But the OBS should be told irrespective, and if your wife finds her misplaced moral compass, hopefully she will choose that it you remind her often enough.

[This message edited by straightup at 12:34 AM, Saturday, March 25th]

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 364   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8783977
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 1:32 AM on Saturday, March 25th, 2023

Ozzie,

What usually happens when the OM is exposed to his BW is that the OM throws your WW under the bus and swears undying love for his BW. Your WW now has no one except you.

I would also expose the OM to his adult children, he has made his bed now lie in it.

It's also standing up like a man, let your kids know age appropriately, much kinder than beating him down with a club.

You mentioned people here not having sympathy for you, actually many here do feel what you feel. I recall writhing on the floor when I realized my W was with OM1. I feel for you having to take care of your kids while your WW is with OM.

posts: 1491   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8783985
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Wool94 ( member #53300) posted at 9:29 AM on Saturday, March 25th, 2023

Ozzy,

CT says is best with this statement.

You know, the truth about why our WS's go off us while they're cheating is typically... that they're cheating.

You're accepting your WW's rationalizations as gospel.

I just came here to say the same thing.

It is also imperative that you let the OM's wife know of the situation.

How would you feel if you were in the same boat?

You MUST ALWAYS do what's right. That's what I've taught my kids and what I believe as well.

Onto the next topic.

Are you taking care of yourself?

Are you eating, sleeping, exercising, getting enough water? This is pure hell and you have to take care of yourself.

Get checked for STDs.

Take care of yourself and start to see your self worth. You are the prize, not her.

If she won't fight for this marriage, she ain't worth it.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 9:30 AM, Saturday, March 25th]

D-Day #1: April 7, 2016
D-Day #2: May 21, 2016
D-Day #3: June 7, 2016
Me: 1975
Her:WW (amn8r) 1981
Son 2006
Daughter 2009
"God not only loves you, but He actually likes you. "-Stephen Hooks

"My faith is mine now."

posts: 3816   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2016   ·   location: Roll Tide Country 🇺🇸
id 8784029
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notanotherchance ( member #46677) posted at 2:20 PM on Saturday, March 25th, 2023

About 6 weeks ago my wife sprung on me that she lost physical attraction for me years ago, and that our sex life hasn't been great for a long time.

In the background and ex contacted her on FB about 4 years ago


The two above statements should start with the ex contacting her about 4 years ago, about the same time your WW lost physical attraction to you. I mean seriously dude if you want to sit back and do nothing while letting this ex BF bed your WW whenever they decide too then you have really nothing to complain about. He is not her ex BF any more he is her current BF and you are the home guard who is not getting any.
If you continue to allow yourself to be cuckolded due to your fear of the unknown if you stand up for yourself then you will never realize the result that you require to move forward. The more time they spend together the stronger the bond between them grows and more than likely you will find yourself on the outside looking in and all alone. Its kind of like that now by reading your posts.
If it is your nature to have an open relationship then all the power too you, unfortunately yours is not a open marriage it was thrust upon you due to her A which you readily accepted under the guise that somehow accepting the open marriage would allow you to hang on to the sliver of marriage you have left hoping that they will get tired of each other and she will again become the model wife you so desperately long for. Good luck with that.

I wish you strength to get through this dark period of your life

posts: 589   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2015   ·   location: Overseas
id 8784040
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notanotherchance ( member #46677) posted at 2:56 PM on Saturday, March 25th, 2023

To the point where there is no longer anything worth discussing anymore which ironically I think will now help us focus on our relationship

So you're WW is in love with another man, having sex with him whenever they want, with your blessing then to state "To the point where there is no longer anything worth discussing anymore which ironically I think will now help us focus on our relationship."

What relationship is that? The one where she tells you her H that she is in love with the OM, she wants to have physical relations with him while you stay at home looking after things and when she gets back you two talk and laugh bout things because she's very happy and you are a great guy for allowing her to be happy albeit at the expense of your happiness. Looking at it the only one who has suffered any consequences for her A has been YOU.

Please inform the OBS she has the right to know, or would you have rather been kept in the dark. From your posts you have continued to point bout how forthcoming and truthful your WW has been about her A thus making it so much easier to accept her stepping out of the M to satisfy her sexual needs with someone other that her spouse. Don't you think that the other mans wife deserves to have the facts in front of her too, she might not be as willing to share her husband as you are to share you're WW. Once a unaware spouse is informed It can stop an A dead in its tracks.

posts: 589   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2015   ·   location: Overseas
id 8784043
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MrBigBull ( new member #83123) posted at 5:29 PM on Saturday, March 25th, 2023

Hi Ozzy,

Let me start by saying I feel so sorry for you.
You know why? Because to me you sound like a real good and nice guy, and I can not help to feel like your wife is taking advantage of you. That is why I decided to react.
I will start typing away, as I see this situation, I will give you my point of view on this. It is up to you to decide what you want to do with it. Maybe I will jump from subject to subject, so sorry in advance if not everything is chronological order.

Is was shocked to read that you need to be at your most confident at a time you feel the lowest.
Let me tell you, you are a confident person. You were confident that nothing would happen, you trusted your wife to have contact with an ex. Not really lot af man are okay with such a thing. But you showed confidence. You showed your wife you are confident enough and strong enough to let her have contact with an ex. If she doesn't see that, then that is on her.

Then those books like Esther Perel, well I think a lot of them are crap. Of course there are good points, but accepting that this what is happening to you now is okay is a big no no. This should not happen. When your wife started to have feelings, she should have cut contact with him. If you want, you can find books and sorts stating that woman are submissive to man and should do and be available to man at any time. That is also total crap. Do not believe anything you read or find.
Let me guess, your wive found those books and things?

What I truly think is, your wife knows you do not want to divorce, and would do anything to keep the marriage.
If she knows this, then she can exploit this. With the help of the books she was able to convince you this was the way to go.
With this, she has a steady base, and an other man on the side. She is enjoying it to the fullest.

The 'beauty' of this all, you can test if she really believes the books she presented to you, and it is really simple.
I do not know how you are physically build, but I would suggest going to the gym, a lot. Go work on your body.
If you have lets say extra weight, then lose that. If you are build skinny, then gain muscles, in short, work on your body.
Together with this, eat healthy and stay of alcohol, this will give the maximum effect. If you really work out hard, you will see results within a few weeks.
If your wife asks why are you doing this, then just say that you feel the same as her, and that you also need the escape and will date and have sex with other woman. My best guess is that she won't like this. Maybe she won't say it, and maybe even agree with it, but I think she won't like it.
Then you can amp up the test even more. Tell her she needs to watch the kids at a night, because you are going out. And before this, you two must have agreed that she will not let him in the house, and you will not take any woman in the house.
Even if you do not really have a date, just go out and have some fun. When you return, spray some womans scent on your clothes, be sure it is an other than your wife uses, be sure she picks up the scent. I know it is petty, but it is a great way to test if she is really okay with this. If she not already mentioned she had problems with this when she noticed your work out routine, then most certainly she will have problems with it now, or if she is really strong, after a few times.
Furthermore, if you can have a real date with an other woman, then really do, if only for fun and company.
Want to amp it up even more? Then act real happy on the day of 'your date' and right after it, and less happy on the other days.
This all will get into her head, and she will start to question if she should continue, because now there is a chance she will lose you to an other woman, and that is not a part of her plan.

If I've read correctly, then the other man she is seeing is married. This also should tell you something.
So she talks you into accepting this situation, that you need to be a confident man, but has no problem in hooking up with a man who is cheating on his wife. So you need to be the best man in the world, while her lover can be a complete a hole. So the question is, why does she has feelings for him? How on earth can she think this is a good man?

With this information, you can also play an other 'game', but this one is really tricky, it could cause her to divorce you, and her ending up with the other man (what could be her plan al along).
First you will be needing proof that the other man is cheating on his wife, so basically incriminating pictures and text that clearly show he is cheating on his wife, with your wife.
Second, you need to be able to contact his wife and have a meeting with her. When you see her, you can show her the evidence you have. The most likely reaction will be that she will divorce him, word gets out that you gave her the photo's and most likely your wife will divorce you, and they will be together. But, if you can convince his wife to start an affair with you, or make it really look like it, then it could get awkward for you wife.
Because if the above part is in place (where you told her you need the escape as well and will date other woman), then you could mention you found a lovely lady, and show a picture of you two together. Imagine what will go through her mind when she sees it is the wife of her cheating lover. After you showed her the picture, you must stop see the other woman, just to give the other man no evidence, and to see what happens.
I know it is a real risk and maybe too far fetched, but if you think your marriage is in shambles anyway, then you might as well have some fun. And you never know, maybe the woman is a real nice lady and relationship material.

My point is, you are really too nice for her, and she knows it, and is taking advantage of it.
How can her being with an other man help you two grow together again, when all this only causes you pain.
This is not what you signed up for, this is not the kind of marriage you want. Some people can have open relationships, or poly relationships, or half open relationships, but they all are in the minority. The most important thing is, what kind of relationship do you want? I am sure it is not the one you have now.
I really do suggest you go to the gym and work out hard, maybe also work hard on your career. These things will both benefit you in the long run, whatever happens. But going to the gym changing your appearance and stating you need the escape as well, will most certainly shake your wife's world. And I would be very curious if she then still wants to continue this way, because I firmly believe she playing you, playing you to have a stable home base, while having someone on the side.

Background: UK based, married 15 years, 2 kids.

About 6 weeks ago my wife sprung on me that she lost physical attraction for me years ago, and that our sex life hasn't been great for a long time. This absolutely floored me as I have always been up for sex and thought that she just didn't have the drive I have. Also I have felt that our marriage, while having ups and downs, has always been pretty amazing. We do great things together, have incredible holidays, and there are plenty of times when we have had great sex.

In the background and ex contacted her on FB about 4 years ago. It was just messaging back and forth and then about 2 years ago they met up in person. I was always fine with this as I am not a jealous person, and she always (truthfully) told me that there were no feelings there. But I did always question his motives.

Anyway 2 weeks after the initial chat she acknowledged that she does have feelings for this other guy. This again totally floored me, and I feel like a mug. But after a lot of chats, reading and listening to Esther Perel and the like, I can totally understand where she is coming from. After being together so long things are not going to be the same as they were, and it is totally understandable that these things can happen.

If it wasn't for the kids we would have separated, but she says (and I believe her) that she sees us together longer term. She just needs this escape at this point in our lives. After a lot of chatting I reluctantly agreed that she should do what she needs to do.

She has now been with him on 2 occasions and my brain is an absolute rollercoaster. On the surface I am OK with the sex side of things but I think the fact that I can't talk to anyone about it (friends and family would obviously not be able to understand this). She has managed to create a complete separation in her mind and wants to focus on us getting better and not talking about what she is doing.

People on here might struggle with it as well, I am not sure. But the truth is I love her and love my kids and would actually rather ride this out than lose my kids for half the time and not be with her.

But I alternate between feeling sick / panicky / completely messed up and being completely fine to the point where I can joke with her about it. The worst part is in order for her to feel attraction to me again I need to be at my most confident at a time where I am feeling at my lowest.

Anyone had similar experiences or can offer any advice for coping?

posts: 6   ·   registered: Mar. 25th, 2023
id 8784066
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 6:13 PM on Saturday, March 25th, 2023

Thanks for all the responses. I'm collecting my thoughts over the weekend and will come back on Monday. I'm not regretting writing my story at all now though, I woke up this morning feeling like I am far more in control of my thoughts than I was a couple of days ago so for that I'm eternally grateful.

Meeting a mate to watch some comedy shortly which should be good for the soul.

Hope you all have a wonderful weekend.

Oz

posts: 176   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8784076
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MrBigBull ( new member #83123) posted at 7:59 PM on Saturday, March 25th, 2023

Hi Ozzy,

That is a really smart thing to do, you take it easy and read through all the messages and think about it.
Why should you regretting writing your story? With writing your story you got a lot of points of view.
You pick out the ones that makes sense to you or is close on how you feel about it.

The intention from all of us is to let you see our point of view, and we all want you to be happy, and live a happy life.

Have fun watching the comedy, it is really good to set your mind on something else.


Thanks for all the responses. I'm collecting my thoughts over the weekend and will come back on Monday. I'm not regretting writing my story at all now though, I woke up this morning feeling like I am far more in control of my thoughts than I was a couple of days ago so for that I'm eternally grateful.

Meeting a mate to watch some comedy shortly which should be good for the soul.

Hope you all have a wonderful weekend.

Oz

posts: 6   ·   registered: Mar. 25th, 2023
id 8784090
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