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Respectful dialogue about Covid

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 1:15 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

I also saw today that there are certain mouthwashes that are antiviral and may work well concerning the Omicron variant

Since reopening after lockdown, my dentist uses something that has hydrogen peroxide in it. Brace yourself, it tastes terrible, but I guess it reduces the viral load in the mouth, at least temporarily.

I'm all for finding any therapies that work and for trying to make sure they're available to people who can't get vaccinated. But that's where I'm frustrated again by vaccine resistance. Experience seems to show that if you're vaxxed, your likelihood of getting severely ill from COVID is greatly reduced. So if all the people who could get vaccinated did get vaccinated, there would be more than enough monoclonal antibodies in stock for those who can't. We wouldn't have to worry about how to manufacture more.

The reverse isn't true. There's no way to make enough monoclonal antibody and administer it to everyone in the nascent stage of COVID. And even if we had the supply and personnel, too many people will be asymptomatic or brush off mild symptoms until it's too late to do any good.

WW/BW

posts: 2650   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 3:41 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

I read articles that suggested that Omicron does not seem to cause as much lung damage as other variants! This is AWESOME news

My understanding is that unlike the other variants Omnicron infects the upper respiratory system over the lower. The original strains went mostly for the lower respiratory system and the cytokine storm doing most of the damage was there. Having the upper respiratory track involved has the immune system kick in earlier. IOW this is why it both spreads easier and is less deadly.

Catching up on the other points.
If you get sick with covid you will be shedding the virus. It is almost assured that being vaccinated or having a previous infection will lessen the amount and time you are shedding but you will be at contagious at some level.

Disease evolution. Only major evolutionary driver is towards more communicable over less. Each mutation is just as likely to be more deadly than less. We were lucky with Omnicron in that it appears to be both more communicable and less deadly. The only driver towards less deadly comes in if the disease kills rapidly, therefore less deadly means more spread, or if the symptoms are readily apparently when first contagious so that people can avoid them. Covid unfortunately doesn't follow that pattern. I lost the argument for avoidance as an evolutionary pressure to people smarter than I a few months back. Aids was mentioned as an example.

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 4:23 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

The only driver towards less deadly comes in if the disease kills rapidly, therefore less deadly means more spread

Both because it kills the hosts before they can spread it and because people take countermeasures far more seriously. If COVID were as fatal as Marburg, we wouldn't be having this debate. Everyone masks and quarantines for a disease that kills more than half the people who catch it.

WW/BW

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 4:44 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

Everyone masks and quarantines for a disease that kills more than half the people who catch it.

I am no longer sure of that. I truly believe now that some people would hug zombies. There would be entire (short-lived) cults of people becoming zombies on purpose.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 4:45 PM, Monday, January 10th]

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 4:46 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

I don't know how many deaths there are from Omicron, but it's a statistically significant number, because the director of the CDC got herself in hot water for calling the death rate "encouraging" in an interview this weekend.

"The overwhelming number of deaths, over 75 per cent, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities," Ms Walensky said in an interview with Good Morning America.

"So really these are people who were unwell to begin with and yes, really encouraging news in the context of Omicron."

Some people with comorbidities felt that the comment treated them as dispensable. I personally agree that it's good news. Fewer serious infections in healthy people means less stress on the healthcare system and more resources available for those with medical challenges.

WW/BW

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 4:50 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

I am no longer sure of that. I truly believe now that some people would hug zombies. There would be entire (short-lived) cults of people becoming zombies on purpose.

I think the part where they start bleeding from every orifice would be pretty persuasive.

WW/BW

posts: 2650   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 5:03 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

I truly do not understand why people won't wear a mask.

Even if you don't believe they help, what if you're wrong?

What is the worst thing that will happen if you wear one? You will be temporarily inconvenienced, A little uncomfortable?

By wearing one, maybe you kept grandma from getting the flu or a nasty cough she or another medically compromised person or their family member does not need to deal with.

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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DragnHeart ( member #32122) posted at 5:48 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

There would be entire (short-lived) cults of people becoming zombies on purpose.

That would be my wh. I've already told him. He becomes a zombie i will have no problem chopping off his head lol

I truly do not understand why people won't wear a mask.

So many people i have spoken to personally have said they can't breathe in them and will suffocate. Ugh!

I purposely bought myself a big ear flap hat with removable face mask years ago because in winter the cold hurts my face. Even with the snow blower it can take me 45 min or more to clear the driveway and that wind Nd blowing snow hurts! All that time wearing a thicker than normal face mask and i never suffocated...

Personally i love wearing it. I can stick my tongue out or mouth swear words without anyone knowing lol

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)
Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 6:03 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

"Personally i love wearing it. I can stick my tongue out or mouth swear words without anyone knowing lol"

So true!!!

For the people that say they can't breath, how do they think the hospital staff do it?

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 6:58 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

I think the part where they start bleeding from every orifice would be pretty persuasive.

In a sane world, yes. Unfortunately, some people are now drinking urine to try and prevent COVID, so who the hell knows? We aren't in a sane world.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 6:58 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"The love that you lost isn't worth what it cost and in time you'll be glad that it's gone." – Linkin Park

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truthsetmefree ( member #7168) posted at 7:42 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

What is the worst thing that will happen if you wear one? You will be temporarily inconvenienced, A little uncomfortable?

There are doctors and other medical professionals that have addressed this. Our body's immune system works by exposure...it's how we build up the needed resistance to all kinds of pathogens. It's why young babies with under-developed immune system instinctively put virtually every thing in their mouths. When we wear masks day in and day out we are reducing the natural exposure we would be getting that keeps our body's immune system in good working order. Many of us voluntarily wore masks in the early days. But we don't see it as an ongoing solution for many reasons. Yes, it's uncomfortable because it is literally reducing your oxygen levels (which is a breeding ground for other problems - not to mention the mask itself). But we also see it as harmful.

Everybody wants to argue the "covid science"...but there's a whole other body of science that we have been following for years. We've had many other viral scares but when have we ever advocated for this and for such an extended period of time? We were told that we needed to wear masks until we could either flatten the curve or had a vaccine available. But even when a vaccine became available, we were told from the start that those who were vaccinated STILL needed to wear a mask. And this was back when they were telling us the vaccines had near 100% efficacy.

As to the resistance that so many seem to not understand, let's review how things happened in the states and maybe why some people now feel the way they do:

At the onset it was predicted that millions of Americans would die. It was a terrifying supposition and the models ended up being wildly wrong...but nonetheless we were absolutely terrified from the very start. We all watched this virus like it was an incoming comet that would annihilate the human population. This country's first case, now another country's first case.

We were told that the biggest and most pressing concern was the strain this would place on hospitals...that people would literally die "in the halls" because they would not be able to get treatment. Make-shift hospitals were set up, equipped and staffed in the most populous areas that also seemed to be experiencing the highest case loads. We focused on protecting the ones most as risk. We locked down, shuttered businesses and paid people billions of dollars to not open/not work - all with the singular (and largely in collective agreement) focus of "flattening the curve". Meanwhile, make-shift hospitals went un-utilized, we had covid patients instead pushed into nursing homes in several states, and the case numbers and deaths continued to tick up. We heard reports of hospitals at capacity and body bags stacked in refrigerated trucks, saw tik-tok dance videos of hospital staff, and news accounts of hospital staff lay-offs in secondary departments. The one thing no one could do was to actually get inside a hospital - unless you were admitted for covid. It began to be hard to know what to make of all the conflicting reports.

We were then told that the models were wrong...but that it was still bad. Death tickers ran 24/7 on virtually every news site. The numbers again created a fear. There were discussions for early treatments (HCQ, Ivermectin)...but those seemed to get politicized and dismissed early without much exploration. To this day, of all the people I personally know that have been diagnosed with covid, I know of only one that was actually given an early treatment. And he was subsequently not able to find a pharmacy to fill it. Everyone else was told to go home, isolate, and go to the hospital if they got worse.

When the lockdowns could no longer be claimed to be effective, we were told that we could re-open so long as we masked and social distanced. So we did - even cautiously because we were still seeing those death numbers. We masked with whatever we could find, our stores set aside special hours for the at risk, and the rest of us shopped with arrows on the floor telling us where we could stand and which direction we could go. The government also began to take the authority to tell us IF we could gather with friends and family for holidays, how many we could have there, make threats if we were caught in violation, and encourage our neighbors to report us. They called this the "new normal". We were told that our only hope was for a vaccine but that it would be at least 18 months out - with the average vaccine taking upwards of 10 years to be developed and approved.

As we neared the end of 2020, our all cause death numbers were aligning closely with the prior years. It caused people to ask - Where did all those covid death numbers go? It's then we also learn the broad classification for a covid death, the financial incentive to call it a covid death, and that the CDC had quietly downgraded their numbers to say that only 6% of what had been reported as a covid death was now actually due to covid. This downgrading should have been a celebration; it was largely ignored by all MSM. The death tickers on news stations collectively disappeared.

We end 2020/open 2021 with a vaccine - hooray! But that 18 month minimum estimation for vaccine development is off-set by this actually being an EUA vaccine. It can be authorized for EUA specifically because there is no other treatment. One just needs to give informed consent. Oh, and by the way, we have very little safety data, it's an mRNA vaccine - it doesn't work like most past vaccines you have taken, and yeah..the pharmaceutical companies cannot be held liable in any way. Certain political sects and their leaders publicly stated they were NEVER going to take this vaccine because of the administration it was developed under - ironically the same that are now trying to get it mandated. It was claimed the vaccine was not safe...that they would wait for another vaccine. (I'm not arguing politics here...I'm simply pointing out why one might now ask questions/have doubts.)

But then we were told that the vaccines would provide near 100% efficacy so people lined up/rolled up. But some of us were concerned, many of us had already had covid - some recently, and we had questions at the onset that didn't seem to ever be addressed with actual science. Not that it couldn't have been...it just wasn't. Our government just seemed to be on a mission to get everyone vaccinated - 70% by July 4th is what I believe was the goal. We literally wanted the majority of our population vaccinated in less than 7 months when we didn't even have 7 months worth of safety data....for a virus that, according to their reports, had a 99% survival rate. And not only are our questions not being addressed, a mass censorship unlike ever seen in our country's history starts taking place. We literally have experiences of having information taken out from under us as we are reading/seeing it. These are not our friends' posts about what their veteran uncle says the government is trying to do. These are accredited doctors and scientists...that are literally discussing the very concerns we have. (Contrary to possible public perception, we aren't just empty containers that happened to get filled by whatever we come across. We are intelligent people that are proactively searching for answers that actually make sense to us. We can distinguish that our friend's uncle is an idiot.)

Then began all the moving goalposts.

Who still had to wear a mask, who would be allowed to travel, would we need to require vaccine passports - and who would control that database, should a vax be mandated - is it constitutional, who can enforce it. Businesses begin to require it out of legal fear and anticipation of government mandates, it's forced on our military, FFs, LEOs, virtually every public servant. And it's forced on our medical professionals. We have now moved from the initial primary concern of straining our hospitals and now we see doctors and nurses leaving their jobs - all because they won't take a shot when they worked for the last year plus on the front lines, many of them lacking even the necessary PPE in the early days! (There are doctors and nurses that won't take the shot - can't us Average Joes get a break when we tell you we are hesitant?) Ironically, medical workers that are vax'd but test positive for covid may now be allowed at work so long as they are asymptomatic. How does that even make sense?? We fired medical professionals for not being vax'd but allow covid positive to work. Meanwhile, our elected leaders exempt themselves and big Pharma from the mandates and explain to us unvax'd how they are "really losing patience" with us. Just like that, we become the reason (scapegoat) for covid not being eradicated.

In the midst of all these above things, we continually learn about the changes in the efficacy of the vaccines. I won't belabor those points here because they have already been well discussed. I'm just trying to give context as to why that as a sole explanation is not well received or easily dismissed for certain groups. We are on our third shot here, Israel is on their fourth...and we're hardly a year into the vaccine. Vaccines that don't actually convey immunity are not really vaccines - despite that the definition has had to be changed to continually call it a vaccine. (Just think about that part... The thing didn't fit the definition of a vaccine so the f'ing DEFINITION was changed.) These are called leaky vaccines, btw, and they create all kinds of issues later, including dangerous mutations. Australia is in a state beyond comprehension, reminiscent of Nazi Germany ...which is where many of us were afraid WE could end up before ever witnessing them actually come into the state they are. It's kind of unnerving to try to understand some of all these pieces, look at them collectively and think, Yikes...that would be like Nazi Germany - and then see a country that has done those things and become like Nazi Germany.

Yet, there sits Covid...skipping right along and seemingly largely unaffected by any and every single thing that has been done. Omega, Lamda, Delta, Omicron - mutations they say.

There's so much more I could say...about other EUA drugs used in the treatment, about administrative protocols that are not allowing doctors to actually treat, about money trails. It's not my intention to change anyone's mind. Truly it's not. But there's been pages here and on other threads stating how people "just don't understand" some particular perspective of the vaccine hesitant group. And then we get a bunch of data to wade through. I understand that the approach to this should be based on science and data...but there are collective overall elements that can't be just simply explained by science and the newest data. And even if you cannot see or comprehend or acknowledge the bigger question that this collective picture is causing some of us to have...maybe you can at least see why some of us are, at the minimum, hesitant.

This is my last post here on the topic. Perfect opportunity to rip my perspective to shreds. laugh I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to have had the discussions I highly doubt that we change each others' minds...but maybe we do find enough understanding to generate compassion. That's my biggest worry...not that I may die but that I may be forced to live in a cold and inhumane world. smooch

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 8:03 PM, Monday, January 10th]

Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are. ~ Augustine of Hippo

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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 8:04 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

The reverse isn't true. There's no way to make enough monoclonal antibody and administer it to everyone in the nascent stage of COVID. And even if we had the supply and personnel, too many people will be asymptomatic or brush off mild symptoms until it's too late to do any good.

You don't NEED MAB's for everyone...just those at high risk for going into the hospital. The thing is...there are a LOT MORE people who don't have an issue with this virus than do. BOTH vaccinated and unvaccinated people get the virus and shed the virus...but those at risk can be helped.

Once again...as of September 3, 2021...ONLY 43% of the monoclonal antibodies that the federal government bought and HAD IN STOCK were used. After that...the federal government started rationing it...and then they STOPPED the distribution. The narrative that these MAB's are in short supply has been debunked.

I am no longer sure of that. I truly believe now that some people would hug zombies. There would be entire (short-lived) cults of people becoming zombies on purpose.

This isn't helpful or respectful.

As I read the other posts...it has certainly devolved into being like the other "Unvaxxed bashing" threads. Really sad...but that is how the VAXXED people want it to be I guess.

This is my last post here on the topic. Perfect opportunity to rip my perspective to shreds. I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to have had the discussions I highly doubt that we change each others' minds...but maybe we do find enough understanding to generate compassion. That's my biggest worry...not that I may die but that I may be forced to live in a cold and inhumane world.

Very well said truthsetmefree smile . Loukas was right...y'all win. Keep on blaming UNVAXXED people for everything without sharing stuff that can actually HELP rolleyes . I'll keep looking for ways to help get this virus under control and share it on my other social media sites. At least some of them listen and all of them are very respectful.

PEACE

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

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humantrampoline ( member #61458) posted at 8:13 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

As a qualifier, I read many posts here but not all.


One thing I'm wondering is what is the nature of the stats on Covid 19 that I am reading? I read in early May, 2021 that the US CDC changed their directives of what US states needed to publish. At that time, several states stopped including breakthrough cases (those vaccinated with Covid 19 positive) to CDC unless they were hospitalized or deaths.

That's true of my US state, and about 18 or 19 others I think. If I go to my state Department of Health website, am I seeing all positives from testing or only a sample? What about the John Hopkins or Worldometer site?


I also personally have a hard time on social interactions. Christmas cookie parties? The gym? Skiing? A surgery that's not urgent? I would really like to hear what other people think on every day things.

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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 8:16 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

Making faces under a mask, for me did not mean making faces at unmasked people. I viewed it as a funny comment about using the mask as a way to hide your displeasure in general. I'm sorry if that was taken the wrong way. Not my intention.

My question about not wanting to put a mask on for short periods of time such as the grocery store was a sincere question.

I would also like to add that I am generally very quiet in person yet for doing nothing other than wearing a mask while in a crowd because I thought it was the right thing to do for me and others, I was mocked. I never said a word about what anybody else was doing and I don't have SM so I do not vocalize my feelings there either. Unfortunately people on all sides of this can be rude and unkind.

[This message edited by zebra25 at 2:26 PM, January 10th (Monday)]

[This message edited by zebra25 at 8:26 PM, Monday, January 10th]

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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number4 ( member #62204) posted at 9:35 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

Yes, it's uncomfortable because it is literally reducing your oxygen levels (which is a breeding ground for other problems - not to mention the mask itself). But we also see it as harmful.

For the last time, it does NOT reduce your oxygen. If it does, would you want someone who's oxygen-reduced to be operating on you (or assisting) in a surgical suite?? Peer-reviewed studies have shown that athletes are not oxygen-compromised at all when wearing properly-fitting masks. I know you've said you're done on this thread, but it needs to be repeated this is false information for anyone else that is reading.

Me: BW
Him: WH
Married - 30+ years
Two adult daughters
1st affair: 2005-2007
2nd-4th affairs: 2016-2017
Many assessments/polygraph: no sex addiction
Status: R

posts: 975   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2018   ·   location: Southern California
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DragnHeart ( member #32122) posted at 9:55 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

Making faces under a mask, for me did not mean making faces at unmasked people. I viewed it as a funny comment about using the mask as a way to hide your displeasure in general. I'm sorry if that was taken the wrong way. Not my intention.

Unless someone tells me how the hell am i supposed to know who is vaxxed and who isnt? Geez. My faces or mouthing profanities is to the general rude jerks i encounter when i go out. Theres always at least One. And its been like that for years way before covid, masks, vaccines. rolleyes

right...y'all win. Keep on blaming UNVAXXED people for everything without sharing stuff that can actually HELP

For the last time, it does NOT reduce your oxygen. If it does, would you want someone who's oxygen-reduced to be operating on you (or assisting) in a surgical suite?? Peer-reviewed studies have shown that athletes are not oxygen-compromised at all when wearing properly-fitting masks. I know you've said you're done on this thread, but it needs to be repeated this is false information for anyone else that is reading.

How is asking questions and stating FACTS blaming the unvaxxed?

It is FACT, a PROVEN FACT that wearing a mask does NOT deplete oxygen levels. I have watched a doctor put on an oxygen monitor then mask up. She did this a few times to prove that her oxygen levels did not change.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)
Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 24066   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8708921
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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 10:03 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

I know you've said you're done on this thread, but it needs to be repeated this is false information for anyone else that is reading.

There is a LOT of false information all over. I know I have seen athletes who have fainted for having to wear masks. They sure looked like they were wearing their mask properly.

Maybe BOTH statements are true...since disposable surgical masks that the surgeons wear are more to protect the patient than the doctor breathing in anything from what I have read about them.

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

posts: 6036   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2014   ·   location: Southeastern United States
id 8708924
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HFSSC ( member #33338) posted at 10:13 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

Number4 thank you for posting that answer regarding masks.

Y'all, I promise those of us who are proponents of masks and vaccines are sincerely trying to meet you somewhere in the middle and remain respecful. But when claims are made (such as masks reducing the wearer's oxygen level) that have been absolutely disproven with multiple studies, it is incredibly frustrating. I'd like to post links to all of the studies that I have accessed and read just in the last hour, but you can find them. There is no evidence from any peer reviewed, reputable medical source that masks worn when in public settings according to recommendations cause any harmful effects.

And for me, personally, the arguments based on "Well, the goalposts keep moving!!" are the most frustrating. This virus, while similar to previous "viral scares" has been an unprecedented situation worldwide. We are all literally learning as we go. I cannot fathom why this creates a basis for someone to question/argue/criticize the recommendations that are being shaped by real time data.

Can anyone who has expressed reluctance/skepticism to "accept the narrative" and/or is mistrustful that we are being told the truth about vaccine effectiveness and potential adverse effects explain something for me?

To what end? If the scientists and medical professionals who continue to stress the importance of vaccines and mitigation measures are not telling the truth, what is the motivation or plan that you ascribe to them? I am not ridiculing your position, and I'm not trying to shut you up or shut you down. I truly want to understand because I can't. I've been a nurse for 33 years. My parents were both nurses. I've been around hospitals and health care my whole life and have learned more about public health issues than I ever wanted to know. And this is the thing that I just can't grasp.

Me, 54
Him, 45 (JMSSC)
Married 24 years. Reconciled.

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whatisloveanyway ( member #66450) posted at 10:21 PM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

Masks. I don't know anyone who can't wear one and function for the time they are in public. My daughter and her friends work out and rock climb in masks! My nurse friend wears KN95 all day. My mom is on oxygen and grocery shops and sits in waiting rooms masked. No one has complained about lack of oxygen, just foggy glasses. They want to live. They hate being sick and some can't afford to get sick, with cancer in remission and high risk comorbidities.

As to the MCA debate, the December blind studies in the Lancet showed no difference, null, no benefit at all vs placebo with two of them, I'm not sure if there is data yet on the others.

I read every zombie novel and watch every movie out there. I'm ready. Do I think I need to worry about zombies from the vaccine? Nope. I'm petrified of misinformation and the continued erosion of common sense and human kindness. We turn on each other just like the stoopid humans in the zombie plots. Wish we could have pulled together and come through this with reduced mortality and strain on the medical system. Not to mention two years of upheaval and stress.

I'm still wearing a mask. Everyone I know everywhere is one person removed from Covid or has had it. No thanks. Stay safe please.

BW: 62 WH: 62 Both 57 on Dday, M 35 years, 2 grown kids. WH had 9 year A with MOW, 7 month false R, multiple DDays, years of trickle truth.
I got rid of her with one email. Reconciling, but the lies have piled up. Trying one more time, again.

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