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Off Topic :
Respectful dialogue about Covid

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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 3:49 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

Well all of us have different viewpoints based on our personal experience with this thing and it impacts how we feel and act regardless of our political beliefs.

That said I have been absent for a few days here. Any guesses why?!?! Yup. Omicron hit.
I wear a mask in public. I limit my outings. I wash my hands. I stay away from people. But last Tuesday I woke up with a sore throat.
It played out pretty much like I outlined on the other Covid thread. I was absolutely concerned about how I would do given my autoimmune issues. Good news is this truly was like a cold. I slept 10 hours the past 2 nights and woke up this morning feeling decent and have energy to do a few things.

That said I will reiterate what I posted in the other thread as well. Be kind. No matter what you believe, especially if you disagree with others actions. You won't change their minds.

I do believe with numbers being what they are now that we will reach herd levels.

Lastly I want to point out to some who fear that the next variant will be more virulent, that is not how viruses function. They typical evolve in a manner that becomes more contagious but less serious in level of illness. Now this crazy virus hasn't followed all the normal rules of viruses, but fingers crossed in a month the worst of this will truly be behind us.

Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 21 &23
Married for 28 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 19103   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8708691
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 4:21 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

MP, that sounds exhausting and overwhelming. I'm so grateful to you and your colleagues.

What about all those patients who don’t have Covid right now? They are getting suboptimal care because there isn’t enough to go around.

That's my great fear. God willing, my vaxxed and boosted family won't get severely ill if we catch Omicron, but we're just as susceptible to other sudden medical emergencies. My DD went back to college this week, but the other major university in the same city decided to go virtual because there were only three ICU beds left between all the local hospitals combined. Three beds, in the third largest city in a populous state.

I'd have pushed her to stay home, but honestly, it's pretty much the same situation here.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2387   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8708696
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 4:58 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

Those asking about being overwhelmed in Healthcare right now.

Absolutely yes! My system has 30K employees. Last week there were over 1500 people out with it. Offices closed due to most staff being out. Our Occupational health dept proclaimed last week if you work from home (like me) then you dont need to report a positive test, and the PCPs are declining to test people with symptoms that are mild. MABs are in limited supply and if you want them you have to fight for them, and even with being identified as a high risk patient it is not a guarantee that get them.

Our area is so overwhelmed and bogged down that we can't keep up. The good thing is people are taking the uptick seriously. Most people have gone back to wearing masks in stores again. Our leaders predict we have another 2 weeks before numbers start to drop. The numbers of active cases currently are double what they were at the highest point ever in this mess.
Good news is that like me most people complain of cold like symptoms and recovering quickly by day 5 most folks are like me feeling better.

Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 21 &23
Married for 28 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 19103   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8708704
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HFSSC ( member #33338) posted at 6:08 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

MP, that sounds exhausting and overwhelming. I'm so grateful to you and your colleagues.

What about all those patients who don’t have Covid right now? They are getting suboptimal care because there isn’t enough to go around.

That's my great fear. God willing, my vaxxed and boosted family won't get severely ill if we catch Omicron, but we're just as susceptible to other sudden medical emergencies. My DD went back to college this week, but the other major university in the same city decided to go virtual because there were only three ICU beds left between all the local hospitals combined. Three beds, in the third largest city in a populous state.

^^^^^^^ This. Every bit of this.

Every time I read about how the treatments are working, and why are vaccines being pushed when there are treatments that work... I just want to scream. Because the treatments do not keep anyone from getting sick. At least vaccines DO prevent some infections from happening, and they also do decrease the amount of virus shed and the time that it's being shed. And again, the antibodies do not work 100% of the time. The people who are ill enough to be hospitalized continue to require very expensive treatment that requires a lot of resources. And those resources are not infinite. Those of you who wondered why we don't just have more hospital beds, who do you propose to staff those units?

And I mean that with all the respect and non judgment and politeness that I can muster.

I work in long term care. Right now we have a COVID unit open again because of 3 + patients. We do not have enough staff nurses to take care of the patients. Our managers who are physically able to work a shift are working hours that are just insane. One of the nurses in my department came in Friday morning for her "normal" job. At 1030 she was told to go to a unit and fill in for a nurse who had to leave because her husband was sick. She worked until 7:30 pm and was then told she'd be needed on night shift because of a nurse calling out. How would you feel if it were your mom or dad who was depending on care from someone who'd been essentially at work for 22 hours by the time the last shift ended?

We are doing this kind of thing routinely now.

I've been sick since Christmas. Tested negative for everything--COVID, flu, strep, RSV. I can't stop coughing. I rapid test every day at work and PCR test twice a week. It took almost a week for me to get some cough medicine (not even a narcotic, by the way) prescribed by my doc because apparently the pharmacies can't keep in stock.

I don't even know what point I'm trying to make anymore.

Me, 54
Him, 45 (JMSSC)
Married 24 years. Reconciled.

posts: 4658   ·   registered: Sep. 12th, 2011   ·   location: South Carolina
id 8708723
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 6:18 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

((((HFSSC))))
Feel better honey. You know that cough is going to linger for weeks.
Humidify your air. Drink tons of water, w/ citrus added. Keep gum, candy, and cough drops handy, to help keep things moist, and that will keep the cough at bay during the day.

Hang in there. If anyone deserves a break from this shit, is 1000000000000000000% YOU!!!!!

Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 21 &23
Married for 28 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 19103   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8708727
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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 7:28 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

I would have to ask what you're reading because I googled "how many people have died of Omicron" and got numbers.

I apologize for not making it more clear. I should have said NO deaths from Omicron have been documented in the United States. The one that was noted from Houston...may have been too soon because epidemiologists are still investigating his death. What numbers did you see when you googled that? When I googled it...I saw where Israel had 1 confirmed death...the UK had 14...and South Africa reported deaths...but it didn't show an amount...as of December 23, 2021.

So - why isn't there more? The first thing is that the gov't doesn't make it - private manufacturers do (and getting into whether the govt should exercise it's emergency powers over private biz, like it did with steel and other goods in WWII is a whole other political debate that would not only be against SI guidelines, but IMHO doesn't really do jack to help those of us trying to get to a clearer understanding about the current status quo).

I don't want to get too political over this either...but when it was determined that ventilators were needed...production was ramped up and ventilators were made. Same thing can be done for vaccines...or ANYTHING ELSE that we NEED to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. It truly IS that simple. HOWEVER...the federal government is deciding the distribution of the monoclonal antibody treatments that they have IN STOCK already.

The treatment side still seems like a lot of whack-a-mole

...not from what I have seen smile . EVERY person who I have known personally that was given the monoclonal antibody infusions within 10 days of symptoms did NOT have to go into the hospital and NOT ONE died from Covid either. More importantly for MY family...they didn't have any life altering adverse reactions like some have had from the vaccine. Since vaccinated and unvaccinated still get Covid...the therapeutic treatments are more needed than ever.

Omicron hit.

OH NO!!! I am happy to see you are feeling better smile .

Lastly I want to point out to some who fear that the next variant will be more virulent, that is not how viruses function. They typical evolve in a manner that becomes more contagious but less serious in level of illness. Now this crazy virus hasn't followed all the normal rules of viruses, but fingers crossed in a month the worst of this will truly be behind us.

I am praying that this will happen as well.

Good news is that like me most people complain of cold like symptoms and recovering quickly by day 5 most folks are like me feeling better.

My H had this happen a few weeks ago. He had Covid earlier this year...had the monoclonal antibody infusion...and felt better that same day. THIS time was NOTHING like what he experienced earlier. His main complaint was that his throat was on fire...and he had a bad headache. He didn't even run a fever. His doctor asked him if he wanted to take a Covid test but he declined. She gave him a Zpack...but it didn't seem to work...so he thought he probably just had a cold. He slept for a LONG time for 3 days...with me sitting right next to him on our sofa. I was SHOCKED when I read what you wrote in the other thread because it seemed like this was what my H had shocked . I have not had ANY of those symptoms...but I am taking extra doses of vitamin D as well as Zinc.

We found out last night that the friend of a family member was admitted to the hospital for a non Covid related issue. I assume they give everyone a Covid test...and sure enough...this person tested positive for Covid. They were very surprised because they had NO symptoms at all. They were vaccinated but had not had the booster because the place where they had gone for the vaccinations was closed because of Hurricane Ida. They were waiting for the office to open back up before getting the booster. This family member had been around them...so they were exposed in the last few days. So far they don't have any symptoms either.

treatments do not keep anyone from getting sick. At least vaccines DO prevent some infections from happening, and they also do decrease the amount of virus shed and the time that it's being shed.

This is where I get confused. People have said in other threads that the vaccines do NOT prevent infections from happening...but you said that vaccines DO prevent some from happening. Which variants are prevented by getting a vaccine? About the virus shed...I read that there is NO documented case of a person who had Covid and recovered shedding the virus if they caught Covid again. Supposedly it is because the CDC isn't documenting this. Why aren't they? What is the reason that naturally immunized people aren't being documented like the vaccine immunized people are concerning the shedding of the virus?

How would you feel if it were your mom or dad who was depending on care from someone who'd been essentially at work for 22 hours by the time the last shift ended?

Having a loved one in a long term care facility...and talking personally to a nurse who had to do a similar shift like this...I feel VERY grateful that they did this. I am so So SO GRATEFUL to all of you healthcare workers!!!

Hang in there. If anyone deserves a break from this shit, is 1000000000000000000% YOU!!!!!

I totally AGREE (((HUGS))).

[This message edited by Want2BHappyAgain at 7:34 PM, Sunday, January 9th]

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

posts: 5815   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2014   ·   location: Southeastern United States
id 8708743
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 7:42 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

I read that there is NO documented case of a person who had Covid and recovered shedding the virus if they caught Covid again. Supposedly it is because the CDC isn't documenting this. Why aren't they? What is the reason that naturally immunized people aren't being documented like the vaccine immunized people are concerning the shedding of the virus?

Again, my "naturally immunized" brother shed the virus and gave it to his "naturally immunized" wife the week of Christmas. Perhaps I should ask the CDC if sick people can get other people sick, via the germ theory of disease as he coughed around the house. I guess I have their test case in my own family. I apologize for my sarcasm, but are you suggesting that if you get COVID a second or third time, you aren't contagious then? I've never even heard of such a concept. I don't even know how that would make sense.

Edited: I'm sorry, I know my tone wasn't great on that. I think this just illustrates that I worry about people grasping at straws to avoid getting vaccinated and latching onto ideas that I would hope most of us would dismiss out of hand. I don't know why the CDC would even bother saying "if you have COVID for a second time, you can spread it" because I guess that just makes sense to me.

Our medical peeps, if I'm wrong please correct me. If this is even a thing, I will gladly own my ignorance. It's not a thing I would research. This is one of those things I'd not even pursue googling about.

I should add that my brother is one of those gym rat types whose only health problem is that sometimes he hurts his back lifting weights or something. His naturally immunized "Dee I'm more protected than you are because I had COVID a year ago you just don't understand how this works" self was desperately calling his doctor at midnight for meds because he was so profoundly sick. He was sick for days, utterly miserable. Sicker than any of my vaccinated friends have been. Not as sick as the first time he had it as he didn't wind up at the ER this time or have months of headaches and brain fog, but still sick. His wife declined the vaccine because she believes everything he says about it, and a lot of what he says about it is not stuff that is medically sound.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 8:26 PM, Sunday, January 9th]

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4783   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8708748
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number4 ( member #62204) posted at 8:20 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

Regarding the monoclonal antibodies, this story was just released on the WaPo website (I can't provide a link):

The federal government has resumed shipping all three monoclonal antibody treatments authorized for early-stage covid-19 to states despite evidence that two might be ineffective against the omicron variant of the coronavirus that is sweeping the country.

The move has drawn mixed reactions from physicians and experts. Some are concerned many of the costly infusions will be useless, causing confusion among patients who have heard glowing reports about the treatments. They note that doctors generally don’t have any way of determining whether their patients are infected with omicron or the previously dominant delta variant, making treatment decisions difficult.

Me: BW
Him: WH
Married - 30+ years
Two adult daughters
1st affair: 2005-2007
2nd-4th affairs: 2016-2017
Many assessments/polygraph: no sex addiction
Status: R

posts: 883   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2018   ·   location: Southern California
id 8708750
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 8:22 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

1) Actually, the 1918 flu got more deadly as it mutated. (See, for example, The Great Influenza by John Barry, available at most public libraries). We can't predict the mutations, and we can't predict what the effect of the mutations might be. As it happened, the Delta nd Lambda variations were prevented by the original vaxes. They only mitigate the pain of the omicron variation.

2) Where does the proposition that the vaccines don't prevent infection come from? That really looks like disinformation. Effectiveness at preventing infection is pretty much what double-blind testing of vaccines demonstrates. It's the results of the double-blind testing that normally get regulators all over the world to approve some therapies and reject others.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:23 PM, Sunday, January 9th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26518   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8708751
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 8:29 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

2) Where does the proposition that the vaccines don't prevent infection come from? That really looks like disinformation. Effectiveness at preventing infection is pretty much what double-blind testing of vaccines demonstrates. It's the results of the double-blind testing that normally get regulators all over the world to approve some therapies and reject others.

They did a better job of preventing OG COVID and Delta than they do Omicron, and that is to be expected as mutations and different strains come about. The vaccines weren't created for Omicron specifically. The more this spreads and mutates, the less value my vaccine has.

And honestly, my vaccine might be doing a whole lot against Omicron given where I live and how not seriously COVID tends to be taken around here despite the high infection rate.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4783   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8708752
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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 9:46 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

DevastatedDee...I didn't think you were sarcastic smile .

are you suggesting that if you get COVID a second or third time, you aren't contagious then?

Not at all. What I am wondering about is WHY the CDC doesn't document the shedding of the virus from naturally immunized people like they are for the vaccine immunized people. Maybe it is because there are so MANY people who were asymptomatic and it can't be a true documentation? To ME...there are still PLENTY of people that were naturally immunized to get SOME type of documentation from them.

I have no reason to doubt what happened with your brother and his wife. I believe that naturally immunized people WOULD shed the virus if they got Covid again...especially since there are variants. HFSSC wrote that vaccines decrease the amount of virus shed and the time that it's being shed. I would sure like to see a comparison between the shedding from naturally immunized people and vaccine immunized people. That would seem like a pretty significant comparison.

Thank you for your post number4...it gives me HOPE that my state will get the treatments again soon smile .

They note that doctors generally don’t have any way of determining whether their patients are infected with omicron or the previously dominant delta variant, making treatment decisions difficult.

All I can say about this is what one nurse on here noted. Here is what tushnurse wrote on another thread:

Here's my personal findings. Most new infections are starting out with a sore throat and a raging headache. Fevers are not nearly as high. Most people do not lose sense of smell or taste. They do lose appetite. Most are feeling better by day 5. Which is a HUGE improvement over earlier versions of it.
Most people aren't having the crushing fatigue too.

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

posts: 5815   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2014   ·   location: Southeastern United States
id 8708761
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gmc94 ( Guide #62810) posted at 9:48 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

when it was determined that ventilators were needed...production was ramped up and ventilators were made. Same thing can be done for vaccines...or ANYTHING ELSE that we NEED to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. It truly IS that simple. HOWEVER...the federal government is deciding the distribution of the monoclonal antibody treatments that they have IN STOCK already.

. W2B - are you saying you believe that the govt, scientists, and MAB manufacturers are just not producing the MABs? That any of those entitles are holding it back because… what? They WANT people to suffer and die?

Or if they are producing, do you think the producers/govt are stockpiling existing stock - again, because they want people to suffer and die? Or for some other nefarious reason?

Is it possible to believe that there simply are NOT ENOUGH of these treatments right now? That Omicron and cold weather and perhaps other factors all came together to create a MUCH greater demand than there is supply?

As I said earlier (or maybe in another thread), just last week (on 1/3 or 1/4) a friend of mine received MABs w/o issue. On 1/3, my WH’s PCP asked if he wanted to get MABs in light of his positive test & comorbidities (he declined, as his symptoms didn’t really warrant it - which means his dose could go to someone who REALLY needed it). Yet that’s changed in LESS THAN ONE WEEK bc in that week the # of cases / demand has skyrocketed.

The same thing is happening with tests - they were PLENTIFUL in the first few days after Xmas - I know at least 20-30 people who were tested in those few days - same day appts or walk up, in/out in about 30 min. By 12/30, that had completely changed. NO appts available anywhere I looked, LONG (like 2-4 hours long) lines at walk up. My local drive up place had to stop drive up bc of the traffic issues.

Isn’t it just simple math to see that if we have 100 doses and 1000 people who need it, some folks are not going to get it. We are what - about six weeks out from 1st US cases of Omicron, and a mere two weeks or so since it began to really explode. Do you think that PPE and vents and the ‘ANYTHING ELSE" we needed when Covid first hit were produced, distributed, and in use w/in a couple of weeks? Or months?

It seems to me that even if we attributed ONLY selfish motives to govt/science/manufacturers, that strictly selfish motivation - in and of itself - would be enough to have all the MABs we want or need. Manufacturers will make $, scientist can make $ and advance careers, and govt/electeds can brag about their leadership skills in getting the treatment to the people / advance careers, get elected, etc. I mean, if you put yourself in the shoes of any of the folks in the supply/distribution chain (research & development, testing, approval, manufacture, distribution, etc), can you think of a SINGLE reason why anyone in that line would NOT be doing everything they can to get treatments into bodies? Maybe I’m dense, but I sure as heck can’t think of any.

You started this thread to have respectful discussion, and I really do appreciate that. Yet, it kind of feels that the issue of supply/demand, timing is ignored or chalked up to some evil plan to just let folks die, which I just can’t wrap my head around.

And as Tush and other have said - EVERYONE is doing the best that they can… so why can’t we think the same about those in the supply chain? From research to production to distribution to those on the front lines who actually administer these treatments? Do you think the folks who changed the distribution model (WAY back in Sept) and are distributing MABs today (in the midst of our current - and HUGE - wave) are somehow NOT doing their best to get as much of these treatments to folks in need?

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

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million pieces ( member #27539) posted at 11:52 PM on Sunday, January 9th, 2022

I know a lot of people who got Covid, unvaccinated (before the vaccine was available), and had very mild disease. Without MABs. So if you give MABs to a mild case, you really don’t know if they got better or just had a very mild case. MABs also seems to be pretty useless in severe disease. Severe disease is what is destroying the NE right now. If it isn’t Omicron that is killing all the patients at my hospital, then who the hell knows. I’m back at work tomorrow, will gather more numbers for those interested.

So, let me get this straight. It isn’t enough that healthcare worker have to pretty much give up 2 years of their lives, but everyone in the supply chain should work around the clock, 7 days a week, so that we can give a treatment when there is an effective prevention out there?

I’m sorry, end of day, tired and not looking forward to a long week taking care of mostly Covid patients that could have been prevented.

Me - 50 D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

posts: 2017   ·   registered: Feb. 10th, 2010   ·   location: MD
id 8708776
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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 12:11 AM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

Sending you strength million pieces and HFSSC.

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 12:24 AM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

I have no reason to doubt what happened with your brother and his wife. I believe that naturally immunized people WOULD shed the virus if they got Covid again...especially since there are variants. HFSSC wrote that vaccines decrease the amount of virus shed and the time that it's being shed. I would sure like to see a comparison between the shedding from naturally immunized people and vaccine immunized people. That would seem like a pretty significant comparison.

I'd guess my thought on this is, and forgive me, but if the plan to avoid getting COVID is to get COVID and have some natural immunity for a period of time, it's not much of a plan. I don't know if they're studying what level the unvaccinated but have already had it are shedding vs the shedding of those who are vaccinated and test positive. I'm not sure that it matters much in the big picture if the point is to not get COVID in the first place. It is very much known that your natural immunity fades and you'd be wise to get a vaccine even if you've already had it to make it much more likely that you don't get it again.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 1:47 AM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

I'm not sure that it matters much in the big picture if the point is to not get COVID in the first place.

There are so many people who have died or suffered long-term effects from Covid, so why would we want to get it in the first place and hope it garners us some immunity? I prefer the immunity minus the illness, thanks. I may beat it easily, I may not--so avoidance and extra precautions seem to be the way to go. Why gamble with my life?

Vaccinations and masks are like condoms! "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!"

Everyone keep yourself safe; we don't want to lose any SI family members.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 1:49 AM, Monday, January 10th]

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:29 AM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

I don't want to get too political over this either...but when it was determined that ventilators were needed...production was ramped up and ventilators were made. Same thing can be done for vaccines...or ANYTHING ELSE that we NEED to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. It truly IS that simple.

The problem isn’t as simple as adding hospital beds and ventilators. If that were the only issue then we could also ramp up military-grade pop-up hospitals, container wards and such, change warehouses and arenas and probably deal with the pandemic face-on.

The issue is lack of trained personnel to monitor those in ventilators. Monitoring that is 24/7 for an average of over a week.

A trained and competent ICU nurse takes about 2 years of on-site training.

The ratio for trained staff per patient on a ventilator pre-covid was anything from 2:1 to 1:2, with most having 1:1 (staff: patient). Even with 1:1 there were generally guidelines regulating breaks, so you always needed an extra specialist to manage breaks. Repeated research indicated that there was a significant increase in fatalities if the number of patients per nurse rose much above 1:2.

With covid regulations have been changed. The UK has a ratio of 1:6 – but then the trained nurse (1) will have 2 non-ICU trained nurses and 2 medical assistants, so its still 5 staff per person. Spain and Italy have also had to increase the ratio, as have many Scandinavian countries. (It’s easier to research Europe because data seems more readily available).

A reasonably large ward with 30 patients needs 5-6 ICU qualified nurses, 10-12 normal nurses and 10-12 medical assistants per 8-hour shift. Then factor that for 24-hour schedules, calculating that these teams get days off, get sick and even get covid.

Schools can’t churn out nurses fast enough, nor can they train them for ICU fast enough. Countries and hospitals are competing for the ones that are willing to travel. What’s even worse nurse turnover are at a record high due to the extreme pressure they are working under at the moment.

---

I have Omicrom. Been suffering flue like symptoms for some days so I got the test and it confirmed covid. This despite near-fanatical precautions in my family. Theory is my son got it from the gym and he was the first to be diagnosed a day before me. He’s a young healthy man and has had 2 vaccinations. I’m healthy and have had 2 plus the booster. On a scale from 0 to 10 (with 10 being a need for hospitalization) he scores a 4 while I have never gone above 2. He’s still feeling sick 5 days in (but improving), I started feeling better after 2 days. I am 100% certain the clincher is the booster shot.

I don’t think I was lucky or that I got a mild case. Luck has very little to do with it. I got a mild case because I had the sense of getting my vaccinations as soon as possible, plus the booster. I got a mild case because my precautions managed to get me past the Delta variant without catching it.

[This message edited by Bigger at 2:30 AM, Monday, January 10th]

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 3:36 AM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

Another thing to consider is that manufacturing pharmaceuticals requires specially trained and certified personnel, as well as specifically designed facilities and a whole lot of quality control. Whatever excess capacity the US had in this field was pivoted to vaccine manufacture. We probably have some catching up to do on other drugs whose stores were depleted when they were kicked down the priority list. And while the US is in pretty good shape with our vaccine supply, a lot of the world is still waiting. Plus we have to hold the door open in case a more severe variant requires a different booster.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

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leafields ( member #63517) posted at 3:43 AM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

Here in the US, waste water is being tested for virus. It's interesting to learn about some of the ways the virus is being tracked.


While studying about the different vaccines, it was enlightening to learn. A good example of how the process of how the vaccines and monoclonal antibodies receive approval. The manufacturing facility needs to be approved. The manufacturer has to show they will be able to meet the demand. Novavax is a good example. They weren't able to get some of the equipment in a timely manner, and a few other manufacturing and supply chain issues. While the vaccine isn't authorized here, it is authorized in other countries.

@tenured - CMS released a HCPCS code for remdesivir. The CDC published guidance that it can be given on an outpatient basis, but is considered off-label use. Each layer can determine whether it's payable or not.

Lea
Me: BW
Married 34 years, 3 DS
DDay #1: March 26, 2018, DDay #2 8/26/2019
Filed for D: 11/16/2020
D Final: 2/25/2021

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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 5:21 AM on Monday, January 10th, 2022

gmc94...I've never said ANYTHING about people wanting others to die. What I HAVE said is that MAB's WORK WELL when given within 10 days of symptoms. Yet...these were STOPPED in MY state...not because they were short on supply...but because they weren't effective against Omicron. But they are VERY effective against other variants. Our death rate is pretty low compared to when Delta first hit...about 9-12 per day. But NONE of these deaths are from Omicron. Some of the people who are in the hospital NOW could have had the MAB's and NOT have to go in the hospital. MAB's are VERY effective and we hadn't even used HALF of the stock we had by September...only about 43% was used in almost a year. During that time I would have thought that MORE would have been made. I don't think that is an unreasonable assumption. I truly don't believe anyone is nefarious...more like incompetent.

MABs also seems to be pretty useless in severe disease. Severe disease is what is destroying the NE right now. If it isn’t Omicron that is killing all the patients at my hospital, then who the hell knows. I’m back at work tomorrow, will gather more numbers for those interested.

MAB's do NOT work once the viral load gets too high...that is why it is imperative to give them to people who are at high risk for it to get severe as soon as symptoms occur. I am very interested to see the numbers if you can get them because so far I haven't seen where Omicron has killed anyone in the United States.

So, let me get this straight. It isn’t enough that healthcare worker have to pretty much give up 2 years of their lives, but everyone in the supply chain should work around the clock, 7 days a week, so that we can give a treatment when there is an effective prevention out there?

If the MAB's were given as freely as the vaccine...there wouldn't have been nearly as many hospitalizations as there have been these last 2 years...and healthcare workers wouldn't have been so overwhelmed. Vaccines WORK...no doubt about it. But so do therapeutic treatments. Why can't there be both? I don't understand what the issue is? Vaccinated people still get Covid and shed the virus...just like unvaccinated people. Shouldn't we work toward something that is effective and keeps hospitalizations at a minimum?

I’m sorry, end of day, tired and not looking forward to a long week taking care of mostly Covid patients that could have been prevented.

I agree that it could have been prevented. But it is here NOW...and we have to deal with it the best we can. Thankfully we know a lot more about the virus and hopefully we can get better vaccines and therapeutics to get this virus BEHIND us. THANK YOU for all you do for taking care of these and other patients smile .

I'm not sure that it matters much in the big picture if the point is to not get COVID in the first place.

I don't know how this is the point...since it has been stated in other threads that the vaccines don't STOP Covid...they just help to keep people out of the hospital. To ME...if the point is to keep people out of the hospital...and stop overwhelming the system...then vaccines AND therapeutics working together would help. Am I missing something?

The problem isn’t as simple as adding hospital beds and ventilators.

I agree...that is NOT the problem. The problem is trying to keep people OUT of the hospital and dying. Vaccines HELP...but they aren't 100% effective. Therapeutics HELP too...and even though they have kept everyone I know of OUT of the hospital...they may not be 100% effective either. Working on better vaccines and therapeutics will keep us ahead of having to add beds and ventilators.

I am very HAPPY that you and your family are getting better Bigger because y'all were able to be vaccinated smile . Not everyone can be...and therapeutics shouldn't be overlooked for those who aren't vaccinated.

MORE good news everyone!!! I read articles that suggested that Omicron does not seem to cause as much lung damage as other variants! This is AWESOME news grin !!!

I also saw today that there are certain mouthwashes that are antiviral and may work well concerning the Omicron variant smile . Of course...MY mouthwash wasn't one of them...but I may look into that as well grin .

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

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