DaisyAnne: I agree to bring up the sex stuff. And for Heaven's sake - you NEVER need to apologize for crying when triggered. I mean NEVER. EVER. I understand you were apologizing for the moment being lost - but the subconscious implication is apologizing for the reason things went south - the trigger. And then further subconscious message is that you are somehow responsible for having a trigger that prompted the rest of the chain of events.
Repeat after me - every damn day until it's in your blood: You "did not ask for any of this." You didn't ask for triggers. You didn't ask for mind movies that screw up intimacy. He should be apologizing to YOU for creating trauma that causes you to experience a deep emotional pain when trying to have sex. I suggest he read up on trauma and relational trauma response.
[stepping off angry soapbox]
That TV shit sucks. It’s gotten a lot better for me over time. Now, I still sometimes get anxious about it – esp when the plotline suggests an A may be ABOUT to happen. But mostly it’s Ok. Come to think of it, it may be better bc I’m not watching TV with WH now that we are S…. so it may be something about seeing that stuff together vs on my own. We did go see the film “the Wife” earlier this year (which has infidelity storylines), and I managed to get through it relatively intact.
And I really hope your DD is doing ok. My DD went through a lot of this – most of which she never told us about (she has a strong independent streak that sometimes kicks her in the backside…. can’t imagine where she got THAT from). But it really darkened a lot of her youth, so I think it’s a win that she talked to you and a another that the boy’s parents are on board.
Daisy Anne & HB: Good on you to “just say no” to your WH's issues with transparency. You deserve spouses who will try to move mountains if it helps you process and cope for even 5 extra minutes. Sorry, but this is a mess that WH caused. All by himself. And he needs to do the work to clean it the fuck up. If that means transparency ALWAYS, then so be it. If that's too much work for him, and he’s too worried about you “being the boss” of him, he knows just where the fucking divorce court is. My WH pulled similar shit all the time in the first 7-8 months after dday (hell, he's pulled it a time or two even after suicide attempt). It ain't right. It ain't OK, and each of us DESERVE a partner that is doing every fucking thing he can (w/in reason) to restore our trust and sanity in the world. He was perfectly able to figure out how to lie and cheat, he should be perfectly competent to figure out how to do the opposite. So if he’s officed in a bomb shelter, he needs to let you know he’s entering a bomb shelter and explain why there is no wifi for his phone to connect to in case you need to reach him. And why on earth any WS thinks it's ok to turn of GPS needs a swift kick in the nuts
[ok. Again, steps off angry soapbox].
Coco+5: that bullshit story is disrespectful to your intelligence – and whatever intelligence he actually does possess. Why was even sexting OK in his mind? Why was receiving a bikini photo ok in his mind? That stuff alone is enough to cause major marital disruption for not shutting that shit down. He may not be the brightest bulb, but even if it’s only got the wattage of a keychain light, it’s a bulb – that can illuminate shit… like sexting may not jive with one’s vows (or integrity).
[was that a soapbox I was just on? ]
He said that, when I question him, he feels like he's being attacked and that I am judging him and think he's an idiot….. he's not wrong that i think he's an idiot.
I essentially lost all my respect for him when he cheated. He is an idiot. I also see him as very weak. It's so hard to not convey that when he does or says something stupid now.
It sounds like he’s behaving like an idiot, not being mindful of switching things up, and then pissed and defensive when he’s called out for being an idiot that won’t do the work to see one step in front of him (even with the shitty keychain flashlight)? Am I missing something? I’m gonna wager that you don’t enjoy thinking he’s an idiot…. so how to get out of that headspace? What can he do to allow you some comfort that he’s thought beyond the shallowest of shallow?
Sorry for the projecting, but I don’t think I could find any safety in that kind of thinking. I dunno. Maybe I’m expecting too much, but my attitude has been that him having an LTA has damn near completely changed me as a human being, so why is it so hard to grasp the concept that I expect him to make some monumental changes as well? I don’t think or feel the same as I did 2yrs ago. About trust, about safety, about the world. I am strong and surviving, but I am still a very different person. I suppose some would say that I have to let that concept go if I want to stay M. I kind of see it that I deserve to be in a partnership with someone whose actions and behavior indicate emotional safety – at LEAST relative to the “safety” shown to date.
FWIW, I lost all respect for my WH too, and I also now see him as weak. It’s a headspace I never in a million years thought I’d be – even the possibility of those feelings blow my mind, I saw him as my solid, respectable, “boy scout”, rock for sooooo many years. It’s really sad to lose that. And to wonder what – if anything – could replace those feelings. I don’t know how to find respect for someone that’s treated me so disrespectfully by having an LTA, and then continued to disrespect with all the post dday bullshit. He wants my respect, he needs to earn it by behaving in a courageous and respectful manner.
And that role playing his mom? I gotta hand it to you – ya got some serious lady cajones going on there. I don’t think I could do that. Kind of gives me the willies just thinking about it, but I suppose if I was told it could move the needle, I’d try to find a way to inflate my own lady balls and fake it til I make it.
The condoms in a 15yo’s laundry are, IMO, a good thing. DECADES ago someone I knew told me her then 12 or 13yo son asked for an increase in his allowance. When she asked why, he said that condoms were expensive. So, he’s being responsible. Sounds like you’ll “have the talk”. With my son & daughter it’s wasn’t “the” talk, but a series of talks that go on until they are done with college (and maybe even beyond. This stuff is hard to navigate – and while I think there are changes since I was a teen that are good (eg let’s be clear about consent), the advent of the Internet and SM, with the porn and mixed messages has gotta be tough. FB wasn’t public til my DS was a senior in HS…. but my poor DD had to deal with all of that junk (and the film 8th Grade is an excellent glimpse into the shit our young’uns have to deal with today). I’d give WH a deadline for him to do it. And if he doesn’t then step in – otherwise, does it have the potential to build a resentment? Again, maybe I’m projecting, but isn’t conflict avoidance one of the top 10 behaviors behind an A? So, I’d frame it as an opportunity for him to do some of his own healing - by not avoiding something uncomfortable with this son.
Because you can put shit in a box, doesn't mean you didn't shit and that it doesn't stink.
I LOVE this. thank you! May your wine be chilled to perfection!
AmIAnIdiot: Holy cow! I’m glad your DS is ok – that is some scary stuff!
EllieK: When I’d talked to my new trauma IC about feeling hopeless, she said that it wasn’t hopelessness as much as it was rage. It kind of threw me for a loop (mostly bc on a 1-10 scale, my rage as gone from 150 to 3-4). Then I looked into depression & anger, and lo & behold! It’s a thing (was kind of an aha moment like when I learned about hysterical bonding). She recommended two books aimed at women and rage. One is called “Rage Becomes Her” and the focus is rechanneling rage into something productive and positive (eg using it as an impetus to fight for societal change). That one didn’t really hit it with me, as I’ve spent a lifetime fighting for women’s rights / societal change and I now want to find ways to work through the rage and find more peace (can’t get political, but I’ve been holding a sign or making policy in one form or another since I was a teenager – I don’t need any more incentive to fight on this front, it’s been my life’s work). She also recommended “Healing Rage” by Ruth King. I’m only a couple chapters into that, but it claims to be about processing THROUGH rage. Not only the current or situational rage, but FOO and ancestral rage that is passed down. If someone had talked to me about ancestral rage 2 years ago I’d have told them to take their chakra and crystal loving selves for a long walk off a short cliff. But damn, it really resonates. I know that my fucked up parts and patterns have negatively impacted my kids, esp DD. Anyhow, this new IC is having me take some hard looks at anger and I’m actually pretty excited about it, esp from a female lens.
TX: we didn’t do the race car this week She wants to switch it up to some EMDR. I’m game for anything. And yes, it was comforting to know that this shit is – literally – in my head!
That "marrying unfinished business" used to irk me (dunno why), but I am now coming around to thinking about it more. I was never fully vulnerable with and NEVER trusted any of my three prior serious, committed, live-in loves (and I was the one who ended each of those relationships). I worked hard after ending the 3d one, and it allowed me to be vulnerable with WH. Hell, it allowed me to marry him (something I did not want with any of the priors- and it infuriates me that he knew the hard work I put in just to trust someone enough to marry, and then shit all over it). But this new IC (whom I think is a good fit- she’s been excellent at validating AND challenging) has pointed out that FOO forms our expectations, and my bar was pretty low. Enter KISA (my 1st) WH and hello wedding vows! So in the context of post dday healing, this is something that needs to get “finished”. It’s one area where I may be fortunate to have a WH that’s not done the work to be “R material” in that it helps me to focus on what I want and need in a partner – wholly separate from who my WH is and w/o any concern over conforming my wants and needs to fit w/in my WH’s abilities.
I hope the MC thing works out. Her making a plan sounds like a good thing (when I last brought up a plan with our MC she looked at me like I had 3 heads – which added to my desire to wean off seeing her), but if it’s not the right fit, then it’s not the right fit (sigh – it’s really disheartening to see how many IC are so clueless about so much. I know they are required to do continuing education, but TBH, it seems like so many are basically just “calling it in” ).
I want to confront her and make her uncomfortable.
I will make myself some popcorn and a LARGE cocktail to watch this story unfold! But seriously, I’m sorry that hatred has been reborn. It’s so effed up. I want my WH’s girlfriend to apologize to me! I might as well be wishing for Santa and the tooth fairy to become real, but deep down a part of me really wants this. My most recent daydream is to cut my WH’s wedding ring into parts and send her a part of it. She deserves her piece of the end of our M, given that (vows to me or not), her lack of human decency and integrity played a role in its demise. But, she’s a POSOW that would never be impacted by one fucking word I said. She’s been a serial cheater her entire life (maybe karma is why her 3d husband left her for his AP). She didn’t care and she doesn’t care. Making her feel “uncomfortable” would be awe-fucking-some.
Ok. I gotta start attacking the massive pile of bills and paperwork that's covering my dining room table. Ugh, but hugs to all.... and I'm putting my cocktail in the fridge now for tonight's toast.
Could be "happy introduction of the Gregorian calendar day" (1582)
Happy Florence Eliza Allen Birthday (born 1876- a mathematician & women's suffrage activist)
In Memory of Catherine Booth (born 1829), English theologian & saint, co-founded The Salvation Army, died 10/4/1890
Personally, I'll toast to Janis Joplin, who died on 10/04/1970.
[This message edited by gmc94 at 4:47 PM, October 4th, 2019 (Friday)]